Conference 7.286::atarist

    You can find version 3 of Little Smalltalk at:
    
    	jfcl::~forecast/atari/LittleST3
    
    John.

Please, how does one copy in VMS from that Ultrix system using FTSV (again)
please?

I put quotes around the stuff after :: and got invalid filename. It
didn't even start without the quotes.

Thanks

Chad

    The problem with copying from ultrix to vms is that you must specify
    the full directory and file name on the VMS end explicitly.
    This means you can't do a *.* copy. Maybe some Ultrix Guru knows
    a way around this but that's what I've been told AND the only way
    I've been able to get copies to work. I have appended a com file
    that will copy all of the "LittleST3" files for you (note that
    upper and lowercase in file names/directoies ARE significant to
    Ultrix).  Please do NOT replace the copy commands in this com file
    to spool copy commands as you will then be attempting to copy 36
    files all at one time from JFCL::.
    
      Ray

$ copy jfcl::"~forecast/atari/LittleST3/basic.st" []basic.st
$ copy jfcl::"~forecast/atari/LittleST3/collect.st" []collect.st
$ copy jfcl::"~forecast/atari/LittleST3/env.h" []env.h
$ copy jfcl::"~forecast/atari/LittleST3/file.st" []file.st
$ copy jfcl::"~forecast/atari/LittleST3/filein.c" []filein.c
$ copy jfcl::"~forecast/atari/LittleST3/graphics.st" []graphics.st
$ copy jfcl::"~forecast/atari/LittleST3/initial.c" []initial.c
$ copy jfcl::"~forecast/atari/LittleST3/install.doc" []install.doc
$ copy jfcl::"~forecast/atari/LittleST3/install.ms" []install.ms
$ copy jfcl::"~forecast/atari/LittleST3/interp.c" []interp.c
$ copy jfcl::"~forecast/atari/LittleST3/interp.h" []interp.h
$ copy jfcl::"~forecast/atari/LittleST3/lex.c" []lex.c
$ copy jfcl::"~forecast/atari/LittleST3/lex.h" []lex.h
$ copy jfcl::"~forecast/atari/LittleST3/mag.st" []mag.st
$ copy jfcl::"~forecast/atari/LittleST3/manual.doc" []manual.doc
$ copy jfcl::"~forecast/atari/LittleST3/manual.ms" []manual.ms
$ copy jfcl::"~forecast/atari/LittleST3/memory.c" []memory.c
$ copy jfcl::"~forecast/atari/LittleST3/memory.h" []memory.h
$ copy jfcl::"~forecast/atari/LittleST3/mult.st" []mult.st
$ copy jfcl::"~forecast/atari/LittleST3/names.c" []names.c
$ copy jfcl::"~forecast/atari/LittleST3/names.h" []names.h
$ copy jfcl::"~forecast/atari/LittleST3/news.c" []news.c
$ copy jfcl::"~forecast/atari/LittleST3/parser.c" []parser.c
$ copy jfcl::"~forecast/atari/LittleST3/primitive.c" []primitive.c
$ copy jfcl::"~forecast/atari/LittleST3/queen.st" []queen.st
$ copy jfcl::"~forecast/atari/LittleST3/st.c" []st.c
$ copy jfcl::"~forecast/atari/LittleST3/stdevent.h" []stdevent.h
$ copy jfcl::"~forecast/atari/LittleST3/stdtext.h" []stdtext.h
$ copy jfcl::"~forecast/atari/LittleST3/stdwin.h" []stdwin.h
$ copy jfcl::"~forecast/atari/LittleST3/stdwin.st" []stdwin.st
$ copy jfcl::"~forecast/atari/LittleST3/test.st" []test.st
$ copy jfcl::"~forecast/atari/LittleST3/tty.c" []tty.c
$ copy jfcl::"~forecast/atari/LittleST3/tty.st" []tty.st
$ copy jfcl::"~forecast/atari/LittleST3/unixio.c" []unixio.c
$ copy jfcl::"~forecast/atari/LittleST3/vms.com" []vms.com
$ copy jfcl::"~forecast/atari/LittleST3/winprim.c" []winprim.c

    A "*" on ULTRIX is equivalent to "*.*" on VMS.  ULTRIX has no notion
    of a file extension (type).  You can use "dcp -i -c" to pull files
    to an ultrix machine.  The "-i" says the file is binary, "-c" says
    convert VMS names to ULTRIX names.  Also use "-i" to push binary
    files from an ULTRIX machine.  As far as pulling binary files from
    an ULTRIX machine, I am not sure of the best way to do that.  Maybe
    that is where the wildcard causes a problem as it may default to
    ASCII.
    
    						Good luck,
    						-Dave

    When I say ULTRIX has no notion of a file extension, I mean a "."
    is equivalent to any other character in a file name on Ultrix. 
    Some shells interpret some characters differently, which can make
    it difficult if you mistakenly create a file with one of those
    characters in the file name (like "-" for instance).
    
    							-Dave

Ok thanks.  It was not clear to me form the original posting that LittleST3
was a directory with the stuff.  I thought it was a file of some sort
that contained all the necessary stuff, hence the confusion.

Regarding spool.  Because FTSV works in batch, you can only copy over
useing SPOOL COPY at one time as many files as you have open slots in your
batch queue.  Therefore you wouldn't attempt to copy 36 files at once,
rather probably 3 at most, as that is the ordinary "default" amount of execution
slots to have in a batch queue.  Anyway, thanks Ray for the com file.

Chad

    This is probably the wrong place to continue the conversation about
    spool..but for lack of a better place...
    
    I don't know much about Decnet but I have heard complaints when
    one person has more than one (ie:3) simultaneous decnet connections
    to a system at a time. I think it adversly affects the decnet
    performance on the machine (as perceived by the owner/primary user
    of the machine). Presumably this is especialy true if it is a small
    machine (ie:workstation).

    FYI: The problem with using * (or *.*) when copying ultrix files
    from a VMS system is that VMS tries to expand the wild card into
    the full ultrix path/file name. Ie: VMS would attempt to create
    a file of the name eg. /user/forester/st/LittleST3/st.h and would obiously
    fail (Note:I don't recall the actual path name we are talking about
    so this only serves as an example for the sake of discussion).
    
    	Ray

    is this software still available?
    i couln't seem to find it in the directory given.
    
    also, how "little" is it?  ie, in what ways does it differ from
    "big" smalltalk?
    
    			thank you -- dd

I recently obtained a copy of Little Smalltalk from a public domain library
in the UK - I think it was "Public Dominator", but I can check & get the address
if anyone wants it.

My first (and only as yet - I don't get as much spare time to play around as I
would like!) attempt to run the system, after dearchiving it was not a great
success.  I was trying out an example from a manual (not one of the examples
included on the disk) and it crashed out almost immediately.  I suspect that
I've just got too little memory - i.e. only half a megabyte; can anyone let
me know whether it will run on a 520, or if I have to wait until I get a
Mega!

Apologies if it looks as though I'm too lazy to find out what the problem is
for myself, but I am really short of free time, and I don't want to be wasting
what little I do have!

Thanks in advance,

Chris.

    funnily enough, i was about to do what you've just done (send to
    a pd lib for a copy), but thought i'd look here first.
    
    we could do each other a favour...you put the smalltalk system on
    the enet (along with your sample proggie), and i try running it on
    my 1040.  if it works, you better reach for the chequebook!
    
    				whaddya say ? -- dd

Re: .10

I'm afraid I can't make my copy available - I haven't got access to the Enet.

However, there were no restrictions given in the PD library's advertisement, so
I doubt very much that you would have any problems on a 1040. I am only guessing
that my problem was a lack of memory, but it seems likely, as I was trying to
run what appears to be quite a substantial interpreted language on a small
machine.

By the way, I paid only �3.00 for the disk, so I don't feel that I've lost out
particularly, even if I can't run Smalltalk at all (until I get a bigger
machine, that is).

Sorry I can't be more help. If you do get a copy - there must be someone out
there who can put it on the Enet - let us know how you get on; I'll try to
find the time to have a proper go at running it myself!

Chris.