Conference 7.286::atarist

    Lots of people weren't too happy with the feel of the keyboard,
    thats why Atari changed it in the Mega series.
    
    I thought I had read in Current Notes that there was a "kit" you
    could get that would give your keyboard a stiffer feel. The kit
    consisted of inserts to place in each key. They claimed you could
    get the kit from your local Atari dealer. So I called my local dealer,
    Compuclub, but they didn't know anything about it. But they did
    mention that if you have an older 520ST, you can replace its keyboard
    with a Mega keyboard for about $90. That seemed a little steep and
    I decided not to do it (I have an older 520ST). I don't know what
    the key kit cost, tho.
    
    Anyone else hear about this "kit"?
    

    re: .-1
    
    >But they did
    >mention that if you have an older 520ST, you can replace its keyboard
    >with a Mega keyboard for about $90. That seemed a little steep and
    
    Is that the Mega *detached* keyboard? If so, I hope the upgrade
    works is older 1040's...
    				- HBM

    No, I don't think they referred to a detached keyboard - just one
    that would physically replace the existing one.
    

quoted from Oct. 1988 issue of "ST LOG" (page 7, St News section) -

			Keyboard Stiffeners

The first-time ST user commonly says, "I like it! But, the keyboard
feels 'mooshey'."  A new ST accessory solves the mashed potatoes problem
with the 520ST and 1040ST.  'Firmpak ST' is a $9.95 addition to your ST
keyboard that adds specially engineered springs to your keyboard.  The
new feel is nice and firm; 'Firmpak ST' gives your ST a more professional
feel.  Installation is quick and easy, no special tools are required.
'Firmpak ST' is now being sold through all major ST dealers.

Intellect Systems
P.O. Box 119
Atwood, CA 92601
(7140 777-3224

  If you want to do some hardware hacking it shouldn't be too hard to
  interface the Mega Keyboard *detachable -- whole keyboard, not just the
  keyboard circuit card and keys* in place of the 520/1040 keyboards
  (this won't work with the older 520 systems with independent disk drive).
  According to the repair place in Utah when I was at school, the lines
  from both keyboards are the same, you just need to make an interface
  for the 6 lines.  It would go where the motherboard and the keyboard attach
  in the 520/1040.

  I don't know the details.  If you had scematics for both, it would be a cinch.
  I was told that the decoding etc. is all the same.

CHad

    The keyboard uses a serial line to talk to the motherboard, so if
    you could get your hands on a Mega keyboard, you could probably
    refit it to make it a detached keyboard on a 520/1040.  I had thought
    of trying to adapt an IBM AT keyboard to my ST (which is also serial,
    by the way) but opted to upgrade to a Mega instead.  The problem
    you will have trying to hook up an IBM or DEC keyboard is that the
    mouse connects through the keyboard controller (Hitachi 6301, which
    I believe is compatable with the Motorola 6801 series).  Unless
    you can add a microprocessor in the link to handle the mouse, you
    will be out of luck.  You would have to also do considerable reverse
    engineering of the 6301 code to understand all the different operating
    modes, it is not a task for the faint of heart (I may still attempt
    it someday to be able to use the DEC/IBM compatable keyboard on
    the ST, if someone is REALLY serious about it, I might consider
    helping out).
    
    						-Dave

    Thank you very much for your inputs and suggestions. I will try
    to connect the keyboard to the Atari. I'll let you all know how
    it worked out.
    Thank you again.
    
    Eckhard
    

Hi,

	for all of you, who wants to connect a DEC LK201 keyboard
	to the ATARI 1040 - it is possible !!!!!!!.

	I have build a hardware converter to translate the LK201
	to ATARI scan-code. The converter replaces the original
	keyboard. It also controles the mouse and joystick ports.

	At the moment, I design a printed-cuircuit-board for the
	converter. The prototype works with a german keyboard.

	If you have any interest, let me know.

                                                           JOY
                                   +----------+           +---+
                                   |          +-----------+   |
                       +-----------|  ATA-LK  |           +---+
        +--------------+---+       |   PCB    |           +---+
        |  Keyboard-   |   |       |          +-----------+   |
        |  connector --+-- |       +-----+----+           +---+
        |                  |             |                MOUSE
        |                  |             |
        |    ATARI 1040    |             |
        |       PCB        |             |
        |                  |  +----------+----------+
        |                  |  |                     |
        |                  |  |        LK201        |
        |                  |  |                     |
        +------------------+  +---------------------+
        

		Reinhold	TSSC Munich.

    

  
    
    
    Yeh lets hear more!!!!!!
    
    Jason.
    
    (At last a REAL keyboard for the ST)

Yes, this sounds very very interesting.

Chad

	Here are some detailed information.

	As I mentioned in .8, the converter is a peace of harware,
	which replaces the original ATARI keyboard.
	It can also be used with a switch to work with the original
	keyboard or with the LK201. 

	The converter is based on the same micro as the original
	keyboard - Hitachi 6301V or 6303R. I have extracted 
	the code from the ATARI keyboard and disassembled it.
	This was easy - but to understand the code was terrible.

	Then I have replaced all ATARI keyboard specific code with
	new code which handles the LK201.

	These is a simplified block diagram of the converter.


                     +-------+    +-------+    +-------+
                     |       |    |       |    |       |
   RX from ATARI-----|   6   |    | EPROM |    | UART  +------ RX from LK201
                     |   3   +----+       +----+       |
   TX to ATARI ------|   0   +-++-+  8K   +----+       +------ TX to LK201
                     |   3   | || |       |    |       |
                     |   R   | || |       |    |       |
                     |       | || |       |    |       |
                     +-------+ || +-------+    +-------+
                               ||
                           +---++---+
                           | Mouse/ |<---
                           |  JOY   |<---
                           +--------+



			Reinhold.	


    

>	The converter is based on the same micro as the original
>	keyboard - Hitachi 6301V or 6303R. I have extracted 
>	the code from the ATARI keyboard and disassembled it.
>	This was easy - but to understand the code was terrible.

>	Then I have replaced all ATARI keyboard specific code with
>	new code which handles the LK201.


  Could you please post the new (and old) code? And maybe some more hardware
details, like what baud rate the 6303 sends data? I'm wondering how hard it
would be to use a different microprocessor and a UART. 

						Thanks, Rob

P.S. How different are the 1040 and 520 keyboards? (I have a 520...)

The only difference betweenthe 1040 keyboard and the 520 keyboard is the
way the Joystick and Mouse attach.  The electrical signals are all the same.

For this project, the 520 wins, since the joystick and mouse connectors
are on the main PC board, and their signals are carried to the keyboard
through the internal keyboard connector.  All that is needed is a single
cable (fairly fat one) that carries all the mouse/joystick signals, plus
the keyboard data to this new interface.

In the 1040, the mouse and joystick connect directly to the keyboard's PC board,
and the connector that leads to the main PC board contains only the resultant
keyboard data.  For the 1040, the adaptor box will have to accept the mouse
and joystick, which will cost you two additional DB9 connectors.

And notice that the differences in -.1 between the 520 and 1040 keyboards
applies to old 520s and 1040/520STF(M).

CHad

 Hi,
 
      the LK201 to atari keyboard converter (prototype) work's fine !!!
      While testing it on my 1040, I found some view minor problems :

        The LK201 is not able to send the Control-Shift-Alternate sequence
        to the converter. Therefore I use the F14 key to produce the
        sequence.
      
        The LK201 makes no difference between the right- and left-shift
        keys. The converter sends the left-shift code for both keys.
        Use the F17 key to get the right-shift code.
        
        While doing a reset, the LK201 does not accept a pressed key.
	That's maybe a problem, cause it's not possible to disable the
	boot from the winni. I'm working on this problem.

      On the following "Special keys" table, you can see, that I'm not
      using the F18 to F20 keys. I do not have any idea what I can use
      this keys for. Good ideas are welcome !
      

      Special keys:

        The "F1" to "F10" keys are equal to the atari "F1" to F10" keys
        The "F11"  key is equal to the atari "Esc" key
        The "F12"  key is equal to the atari "Del" key
        The "F13"  key produces a "Control-J" sequence (LF)
        The "F14"  key produces a "Control-Shift-Alternate" sequence
        The "Help" key is equal to the atari "Help" key
        The "Do"   key is equal to the atari "Undo" key
        The "F17"  key is equal to the atari "Shift right" key
        The "F18"  key - unused at the monent
        The "F19"  key - unused at the monent
        The "F20"  key - unused at the monent
      
        The "Find"        key produces a PF1 and PF3 sequence.
        The "Insert Here" key is equal to the atari "Insert" key
        The "Remove"      key is equal to the atari "ClrHome" key
        The "Select"      key produces a "Keypad ."
        The "Prev Screen" key produces 16 times an up-arrow key.  
        The "Next Screen" key produces 16 times a down-arrow key.  
      
        The "Control-Alternate-Keypad." key sequence produces a system reset.
      

      Leds:
      
        The "Wait" led (led 1) indicates a floppy access.
      
        The other leds can be switched on and off from the atari by using
        the XBIOS IKBDWS (25.) function. The new IKBDWS command is 01E,
        followed by a led-code byte. Bit 1,2,3 in the led-code is the 
        bit-mask for the leds 2,3,4 (bitset = led on).


      For the moment, the converter is tested on a 1040 atari. I think
      it's not a big problem to connect it to a 520.

      Connecting the converter to a Mega-ST gives you the full
      functionality, except:
		No reset from the keyboard.
                No floppy access indication on the keyboard.
                Maybe a separate 12V power-supply for the keyboard.


      The drawings (in screen format) for the converter can be copied from:
      
            MUNICH::RGLK2ATA.ART

      I'm planning to sell the converter. 
    
            PCB and EPROM                           50.- DM
            Converter KIT with ALL components      150.- DM
            
            !!!!!!  The LK201 keyboard is not included  !!!!!!

      
      Who is interested to test the converter on a non-german keyboard
      for a special price ???

                 Reinhold.
    

I don't understand why you can't get CTRL-SHIFT-ALT.  Perhaps you should
be using the LK201 keybaord in a different mode?

    Hello,  
    
    		Re .15
    
    		Can you tell me how to view or print the rg*.art file
    please. What format is it in??
    
    Patrick Keane

    
    Re. 17
    
    	It's in screen format. You can use Monostar or Stad to print it.
    

    
    RE .16
    
    	Jeff, I could'nt find any mode for the LK to allow it to
        send a CTRL-SHIFT-ALT sequence. I'v connected a datascope
    	to the LK and have seen, that it sends the code for CTRL
        and then the code for SHIFT but nothing happends if I press
    	the ALT key. I'v tried this using different combinations -
        allway the last key is doing nothing.
    
    		Reinhold
    
    
     

I verified your observations using DECWindows.

DECWindows uses the keyboard in a mode where  the application can get
the up and down transition of EVERY key, with the exception of the LOCK
key.  I tried my test application again, and sure enough, you hit some
sort of keyboard roll-over limit when you try to hit CTL/SHIFT/COMPOSE
at once.  That would make using Revolver difficult.

The definitive document on the LK201 that's generally available is a
PRO-350 technical manual.  Do you have a manual for the command set
that the keyboard accepts?

I'm slightly interested in the ramifications of your choices for
function key assignments on Whack.  I would recommend F5-F14 be the
Atari F1-F10, rather than starting with F1.  F1-F5 are supposed to be
"local function keys" and are not generally used by applications.  You
would put ALT-SHIFT-CTRL on one of F1-F4.  In fact, I would encourage
you to use Whack as a guide for what all the "extra" keys would send -
that way Whack users would see the LK201 the same as a real VT220.

For example, F17-F20 should send CTRL of PF1-PF4, insert, select,
Prev, and Next keys would send shifted arrow keys, etc.

(In Whack, the Atari f1 is the local function HOLD SESSION, f2-f10 send
VT200 keys F6-F14, CTRL of PF1-PF4 correspond to F17-F20, and SHIFT of
the arrow keys correspond the the VT200 editing keys for SELECT, INSERT,
PREV, and NEXT.  SHIFT of function keys is defined as sending UDK
sequences on the VT200, and must remain accessible for implementation of
UDK's in Whack.  This means CTRL-SHIFT-PF1 would be the the UDK of F17.)

    I would also like a "raw" mode, where the LK201 scan codes get sent
    directly to TOS without translation, if at all possible.  As a
    registered developer I could try to see if Atari will reserve an
    IKBD instruction for such uses.  I think we should all give the
    mapping a lot of thought, Jeff has probably given it the most thought
    with WHACK, but I would like a little more discussion before locking
    into one set of mappings.
    
    						-Dave

Another suggestion:

If the conversion is done using an EPROM (it is I think) why not make it 
possible for the user to choose the keylayout he wants by having some type of
standard decoding and variations selectable by a little dipswitch. Perhaps
Jeff's WHACK is not the only reference (of course it is one). A lot of people
are using Simon Poole's UNITERM. What would he think about a 'true' VT200?

Just some thoughts

---markus---

	re. 20

	Jeff, yes I have the PRO-350 technical manual and I'm using
	the LK in the UP/DOWN key mode.

	Could you send me a exact table whitch describes all your
	needs for whack. This table should include the lk-keyname
	and the atari key sequence whitch should be produced by the
	converter.
    
    	I have a little problem to move F1 - F10 to F6 - F14
	cause F6 - F14 are only 9 keys !?!

    
    
	re. 20 to 22

	I have enough space in the rom to make more than one
	translation table. There are also 2 inputs available
	to the micro to select one of four tables (via jumpers
	or dip's) or to select a mode with no translation.
	It is also possible that I include a IKBD command to
	switch the translaton tables.

    
   

	I have an old 520ST (I had to put the ROMs in myself) that I am
	upgrading to 4meg.  I would really like to stick an LK250 on it
	(similar to LK201 but for VAXmate and PC clones).

	But I want to just get a something to pug into the keyboard
	connector that will give a standard IBM keyboard jack.  I don't
	like hacking around with hardware stuff (I'd just mess it up).

	Has this project got to that point?  What will work?

/dunc
	

	I pulled some stuff from the USENET that supposedly lets you
	hook  up a LK201 via either the serial or MIDI ports.  The 
	MIDI option requires internal mods to the ST but the serial
	connection looks pretty simple.  I haven't taken
	much of a look at this stuff but if you're interested it can
	be found in LEVERS::USER$457:[LANDRY.ST.PUBLIC]DECKEY.ARC

	chris

    Re .25
    Chris, I copied deckey.arc and downloaded it to my ST.  I got "BAD
    HEADER" and failed CRC check when trying to de-arc the file.  Can you
    check it on your end?  I am using the ARCSHELL program to de-arc, and
    have had no problems before this.  I am really interested in using an
    LK201 keyboard on my ST.
    
    Thanks,
    
    Mike 

    Hi,
    
    I had the same prob on the VAX after I pulled DECKEY.arc across the 
    easynet. I ran it through CVTARC and it dearced fine on the vax with 
    sweep. I downloaded it and dearced on the st OK.
    
    Cheers PAt k.

    I'm glad that there is a fix.  Unfortunatly, I havn't the fogiest idea
    of what CVTARC does or where it is located.  I tried the latest version
    of VMSSWEEP.exe (which does ZOO's ect.) but to no avail.  Can someone
    post a un-arc-able version, or the files themselves?  Thanks.
    
    Mike

For some details on file transfer issues between VMS and the Atari,
including the use and location of CVTARC, read
PRNSYS::DUA1:[LOMICKAJ.HOBBY.ST]XFERINTRO.TXT.

If PRNSYS:: doesn't work, try the number:: in the header of this note
instead. 

    Jeff, thanks for the info and access to the needed files.  I didn't
    realize that there were so many ways to xfer files to and from ST's.  I
    used the "set file type BLOCK" qualifer on the VMS version of Kermit
    and transfered the arc file without a problem.  It de-arced just fine
    on the ST.  Now I just have to get the hardware required for the LK201
    interface addaptor's and try them out.  Thanks again.
    
    Mike

	Sorry for the confusion.  DECKEY.ARC is STREAM_LF - everything
	else in my public area is "variable length - 510" or whatever.
	I must have used the wrong CVTARC option when I put together
	the ARC file.

	chris

    Hi, I'm interested in connecting the lk201 to an STe, but canna find
    any info in the afore-mentioned places! Anyone help????
    
    dave
    

>
>    Hi, I'm interested in connecting the lk201 to an STe, but canna find
>    any info in the afore-mentioned places! Anyone help????
>    

	Send mail to decwrl::"archive-server%[email protected]
	with the line    send binaries/volume5 decky

	This will get you something about connecting DEC keyboards.
	Sorry, I don't know if it is really something useful.

	If you want more info on the panarthea archive, include the line
	help
	in your message.

	chris
    

    How about a software solution?? Alter the RS-232 interrupt handler so
    that it takes the received character and sends it to the same place the
    keyboard interrupt handler does. Sort of like a ghost keyboard. That
    way, all you have to do is run a cable from your vt220 (or whatever) to
    the atari's serial port and type away on your DEC keyboard. No icky
    hardware construction or modification.
    
    Is this possible?? Does someone want to attempt it??
    
    -Jim
    

    
    I was wondering how I could dial in my Atari at home via modem and then
    have ST-DCL running for remote commands. If the idea mentioned in .0
    is possible could this be a solution? I don't like those mailbox
    programs with boards and news screens and stuff because I just want
    to work with my computer from remote for my own and do not want to
    make it open for public use. 
    (I guess the screen outputs and keyboard inputs have to be redirected
    to the serial port in the program itself, sounds kind of better write
    a new DCL?)
    
    Bernd
    
                                

RE .-1
    
>    I was wondering how I could dial in my Atari at home via modem and then
>    have ST-DCL running for remote commands. If the idea mentioned in .0
>    is possible could this be a solution? I don't like those mailbox

	Most shells I have seen have some sort of i/o redirection.  If
	ST-DCL does it, then just redirect the i/o to the modem port.

>    (I guess the screen outputs and keyboard inputs have to be redirected
>    to the serial port in the program itself, sounds kind of better write
>    a new DCL?)

	Very true.  The program must do its i/o using the standard
	routines or the redirection would work.  Of course GEM 
	programs won't work either.

					Jim