Conference 7.286::atarist

94.0. "DELPHI/Neil Harris conference" by LDP::WEAVER (Laboratory Data Products) Sat May 14 1988 18:53

****MAY 9TH, 1988 CONFERENCE WITH ATARI'S NEIL HARRIS ON DELPHI****

This transcript may be freely posted to public bulletin boards provided it
is posted in its entirety.  Copyright 1988 Analog/ST-Log
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AVAILABLE LIST: () = in conf
(MADMODIFIER),   (BERG),   (DAREKM),   (DFSCOTT),  (GURU2),  (REXREADE), 
(BOBRETELLE),   (ANALOG2),   BIVEN,   (CWAIN),   (PIOTR),  (NEILHARRIS), 
(HCALLESIS),   (MRGOODPROBE),   (STARWALKER),   (ANALOG4),   (JLSTOKES), 
(DOCTORP), (RONKOVACS)

ANALOG2:Andy Eddy -- ModeratorN    NEILHARRIS:Neil Harris of Atari
ANALOG4:Clay                       1BLAKE:Blake
BERG:Jim                           REXREADE
RONKOVACS:Ron Kovacs               MRGOODPROBE:Mr. Goodprobe
DFSCOTT:D.F.Scott.(CS)             STARWALKER:Dave
DOCTORP:Phillip                    JLSTOKES
CWAIN                              DAREKM:Darek
JEFFWILSON:Steve Reiser            DISNEYNUT
GURU2:Jeff                         MADMODIFIER:Lloyd Pulley
HCALLESIS                          HALUEKING
BOBRETELLE:BobR                    PIOTR:Pete

Andy> Let's start,  shall we?   Welcome to all and thanks to Neil Harris 
for joining us from his busy schedule at COMDEX.  To start,  I'd like to 
reiterate that this CO is a formal one.  To ask a question (after I  say 
questions will be taken... in just a minute), type in a '?' and I'll put 
you on the list.  I'll keep you informed of when your turn is coming up. 
Let's  keep this meeting running as smoothly as possible;  I know  it'll 
get emotional. Thanks again...

Andy> Before I start taking questions, let me start by asking something: 
Neil,  most of us are aware of a change in the Atari structure.  What is 
in  the  works for the computer side of Atari and what can you  tell  us 
what  we're  going to see in the way of enhancements and such  from  you 
folks. GA.

Neil>  We have several new people on board in the US  computer  division 
(now called "Atari Computer").  The division is headed by Chuck Babbitt, 
whose title is president.  There is also a new vp of sales,  Tony Gould. 
Changed  have been made to the field sales organization to  promote  the 
business activities of computer specialty retailers -- specifically,  we 
have stopped using distributors and are in the process of hiring direct, 
Atari-employed sales reps throughout the country. We are also beefing up 
the  marketing  organization at Sunnyvale -- we've already added  a  new 
telemarketing  group,  a  newsletter person,  and are  seeking  to  fill 
additional marketing positions.  Also,  we changed PR agencies,  scaling 
back  our old agency and adding a computer specialty firm.  We  hope  to 
shortly hire an ad agency.

Reading  the  tea  leaves,  I have to think this  means  that  corporate 
management  is getting very serious about the USA>..  they would not  be 
letting us spend the money to do all this otherwise.  ga

Andy> Ok, if we can get a show of '?', I'll start with other questions.
Andy> Rex, go ahead.

REXREADE>  The complaint noticed is:  Using the esc.  key to refresh  an 
open window, has to do with the way the NEW STs attempt to detect when a 
disk  has been taken out and another put in.  Basically it  strobes  the 
drive  select line every vertical blank,  then reads the  write  protect 
status  (the circuitry inside he drive was designed to return a  certain 
status  when the disk is un-write protected and the drive is  selected). 
Setting  the write protect to on makes the machine think that the  disks 
is  being  constantly  swapped,  so no  reads  a  buffered.  This  whole 
technique seems rather silly to me as 3 1/2" drives come with a specific 
data line that indicates disk in or out!  Is this condition with the new 
drives being corrected?  ga



Neil> I am not sure I can answer this question. My understanding is that 
the  issue of ESC keys not refreshing the drive directory is a  hardware 
problem  which appears on some of the drives purchased from  a  specific 
vendor.  You seem to indicate that it is a software error in new ROMs -- 
I  am  surprised  to  hear that,  although typically  this  would  be  a 
production  engineering  issue  rather than one  for  the  US  marketing 
organization. Come to think of it, I am reasonably sure it is a hardware 
issue,  because  our service department has been solving the problem  by 
swapping out drives should they prove defective.  I would like to stress 
that this problem is not by any means inherent in newer ST drives.  Some 
dealers  have  been  complaining that reports  of  drive  problems  have 
resulted  in users demanding exchanges of drives regardless  of  whether 
symptoms  of  this  issue have appeared!  If your  drive  refreshes  the 
directory  on  the desktop when the disk is changed and the ESC  key  is 
hit, then it is fine and does not need any work.  ga

REXREADE>   CHINON   model   AA  REV  A.....this  is   the   drives   in 
question....nothing to do with the roms.....I have had it happen here on 
5 new machines.

Andy> Thanks, Rex... Darek? Your turn.

Darek>  Neil,  what's the current status of the availability of  blitter 
chips  and ROM to n0n-developers in Canada and the US...  secondly  will 
Megamax  and  Atari  ever  release Laser  C  with  the  developers  kit?  
Finally, I think the old ROMs also have an ESC key problem since closing 
and reopening a window seems to work much better than pressing ESC. ga

Neil>  The  ROMs released for the Mega system are being  viewed  by  the 
engineering  department  as an interim set.  There will be  another  ROM 
release late this year, which will be made available to end users, along 
with the fabled BLITTER chips,  which should be in better supply at that 
time.  Personally,  I had hoped to make the Mega ROMs available,  but  a 
command decision was made to not do this because users would be  unhappy 
buying  ROM  revs too frequently.  And in fact there are  major  changes 
going into the next ROM set, much more than went into the Mega ROMs.

I doubt we will ship Laser C with the developers kit. We currently offer 
either Alcyon C or Mark Williams C,  and the developer has the option to 
take  either or neither of these they can simply get  the  documentation 
and the support and buy the C compiler of their choice.

The  only  time  when  an  ST should  have  a  problem  refreshing  disk 
directories  or  recognizing  a  media change is if  the  ID  number  is 
identical on the two disks. If you look in the gemdos docs, you will see 
that the mediach() call can return 3 states --changed, unchanged, or may 
have changed.  I don't know what the desktop does in the ambiguous case, 
offhand.  ga

Darek> ok then if Mega ROMs are just interim, does a 1040 owner have the 
right to burn his own Mega EPROMS?? ga

Neil> I doubt that our copyright lawyers are peeking into people's  ST's 
to  see  what  ROMs  they're using...  but  they  will  protect  Atari's 
exclusive rights to the Mega ROMs, if necessary.  ga

Andy> Thanks, Darek. Jim Stokes, you're on. Anyone else wanting to ask a 
question, please indicate with a ?. GA, Jim.

JLSTOKES>  Has  Atari made any progress finding a source  for  drams  or 
otherwise found a way to increase production and distribution of STs  in 
the U.S.  ga




Neil> I don't know the answer to that.  However,  when the problem first 
became apparent, Sam Tramiel predicted that its duration would be in the 
6 month range.  Judging by the planning in the US organization,  I would 
have  to speculate that there is a good likelihood of  greatly  improved 
product availability before too terribly long.  ga

Andy> Ok, Rex.

REXREADE> I never inferred the refresh problem was anything but a  drive 
problem  and I would like to know if there is any fix available  for  in 
the field?

Neil>  Speaking as someone who doesn't know one end of a soldering  iron 
from  another,  I don't know of a fix.  We are simply swapping  out  the 
problem drives.  ga

Andy> Ok, Steve.
Andy> Others with questions please get your ? in now.

S.REISER>  NEIL,  First,  Please  tell my boss (Jeff  Wilson)  hello  at 
Comdex.  Second,  I  have seen cases where We have sent a  'force  media 
change' to the OS and it doesn't seem to recognize it. Most of these can 
be duplicated at the desktop. Is that an operating system bug? Can it be 
worked  around?  Will it be fixed with these recently  discussed  'Newer 
ROMS' ga

Neil>  There  has been a discussion of the force media  change  function 
online, either on BIX or on Usenet (I don't remember where). And since I 
don't program at that level, I am not conversant with the answer to your 
question.  I am just a marketing guy!  We'd need to run that question by 
folks like Allan Pratt or Jim Tittsler.  Sorry.  ga

Andy> Ok, D.F. Scott.

D.F.Scott.(CS)> Neil,  a report in Computer + Software News states  that 
Atari is planning to set up a traning program for Federated Group  store 
clerks who will be selling computers specifically--PCs, Amigas, and STs. 
This  has  led some to respond that Atari is trying to become  the  next 
Tandy,  and is working to lock out its specialty channel from  receiving 
premiere shipments of new products.  As Product Marketing Director,  how 
do you intend to establish a comfortable balance between your  specialty 
stores  and  your  direct sales force in regions  with  Federated  Group 
stores? GA

Neil>  It is an interesting issue.  The management of Federated  intends 
for  those stores to become more competitive in the  computer  business. 
They feel that the way to become competitive is by enhancing their sales 
force  and  support organizations.  I think okay with you  all  that  it 
healthy!  If Federated proves capable of operating at the same levels of 
capability as current computer specialty dealers,  I think that is  very 
healthy for the Atari marketplace.   We have a long way to go to  become 
Tandy. And Federated stores are not a thing like Radio Shack stores.  ga

D.F.Scott.(CS)> If Federated becomes too competitive,  and if Atari  has 
no third-party distributors, where do the single Atari stores turn? GA

Neil> Dealers in Federated territories have been buying from Atari on  a 
direct  basis  all along,  through sales reps employed  by  Atari.  This 
policy  will continue.   Are you suggesting that we  restrain  Federated 
from becoming competitive?  ga

D.F.Scott.(CS)>  I'm  suggesting that Atari has created  ties  to  small 
stores  which feel just as threatened by the name Federated as they  are 
by "Egghead." If Atari can sell its own brand direct,  and for less, and 
these stores have no choice but to buy from their competitor, won't they 
be forced to lock you out?  GA

Neil> The point is,  Federated is NOT trying to achieve market share  in 
computers through predatory pricing policies.  They are not as cutthroat 
in  pricing currently as they were before the acquisition by  Atari.  We 
had  been  doing  business with Federated (and  another  similar  chain, 
Leachmere in New England) for years.
improved etc?  There were many dealer complaints that Federated's prices 
were too low.  Now that Atari owns them,  the idea is to compete on  the 
basis of support rather than price.  I believe that this is  healthy.  I 
think  you  are making an error in semantics,  DF --we are NOT  tied  to 
small  dealers.  We want our current small dealers to grow with us  into 
big dealers! And that's what the dealers have told us they want to do.

D.F.Scott.(CS)> I was basically voicing the opinions of analysts  at,  I 
believe, Drexel Burnham Lambert.

.Neil>  One last comment regarding Federated.  What I hope for  most  is 
that,  through owning and operating the Federated Group,  our management 
becomes  more sympathetic to the needs of the retailers in  advertising, 
collateral  materials,  training,  etc.  The valuable  experience  we're 
gaining with this retailing venture can be applied to helping our dealer 
base. ga

.Andy> Interesting points, DF. Jim Stokes?

.D.F.Scott.(CS)> That's a very hopeful comment. Thanks, Neil.

JLSTOKES>  There have been many rumors about developers leaving  the  ST 
market,  is  Atari  aware of this and are they going to do  anything  to 
correct the situation? ga.

.Neil>  There  have  been rumors,  although most  of  the  rumored-about 
developers will not admit it to us!  We are very sensitive to this  sort 
of  thing,  and will do what we can to prevent it.  We are getting  more 
active  in  helping developers in the marketing side as well as  in  the 
technical  side.  Atari can't remain healthy if the developers  are  not 
thriving. ga

.Andy> Good question, Jim.. Rex?

REXREADE> Will Federated offer Service?

.Neil> Are you applying for a job?  I believe that Federated is  looking 
to provide service, yes. ga

REXREADE>  not a chance.......just want to know because if such  is  the 
case then the little dealer is in trouble trying to grow and compete  in 
both areas ga

.Andy> Jeff? Your turn.

.Neil> I just wanted to say that users feel comfortable getting  service 
at  the place where they purchased their equipment.  While some  of  our 
existing dealers have strong service facilities,  others prefer to  sell 
and  support  the systems and have less interest in the  computer  side. 
Some have suggested that we contract with national service organizations 
such  as TRW to provide service.  As for the little dealer competing  -- 
Federated  has a long long way to go.  Dealers moving upscale  into  the 
small business,  education,  and corporate marketplaces, *especially* if 
they have outbound sales forces, ought to be very competitive. ga

.REXREAD> ok, thanks once again.....ga

.Andy> Jeff, now you can go. Sorry for jumping the gun, Neil.


.Jeff>  I  was wondering about the new atari computers and when  we  can 
expect  newer TOS roms and GDOS.  Also what is the main market that  you 
are aiming for with the megas? ga

.Neil> By newer TOS roms do you mean the Mega roms or the next rev? ga

.Jeff> after Mega version ga

.Neil> We anticipate releasing the next rev of the roms late this  year. 
The Mega is aimed at the small business market,  primarily.  We focusing 
on  specific solutions where we are strong.  Desktop Publishing  is  one 
very good one.  We also have good Point-of-Sale solutions. MIDI is a hot 
area,  although the 1040ST still predominates there.  And we hope to use 
the Mega in a university push. ga

.Andy> Dave, you're up. Thanks, Jeff.

.Dave>  Neil,  what  is the status of Deskset?  When do  you  expect  to 
release it, and what is the anticipated pricing range? Also, do you have 
any information on the delayed release of ReadySetGo? ga

.Neil> From my conversations with people at Letraset, it looks like work 
is  not progressing on an ST port.  They are going in other  directions. 
Deskset's  code  is finished for release 1,  and  is  being  documented. 
Release  1  is  not  for  the faint  of  heart,  more  for  someone  who 
understands Compugraphic typesetting systems.  We are working inhouse on 
a later release which will support the GEM graphic environment.  So, the 
first  version should go on sale this summer,  at a price point  between 
$500 and $1000, with release 2 at an undetermined time and price now. ga

.Dave> Thanks.

.Andy> Steve?

.steve.reiser>  Thanks,  In the area of DeskTop publishing,  you have  a 
VERY  fast Laser printer but I can buy an (industry accepted) HP  series 
II for $500 dollars less. I am not complaining because of the help Atari 
has given us with the laser, but do you have any plans to 'let the price 
fall'  to  be  more competitive with  other  already  established  Laser 
printers? ga

.Neil> We are comparing -- err,  plums and pears here.  The HP  Laserjet 
carries  a LIST price of $2399.  Its street price has dropped to  around 
$1700 in many areas.  Our laser printer,  which carries similar margins, 
has  a  LIST  of $2000.  As production  increases,  there  may  be  more 
incentive  for  dealers to become aggressive on pricing -- but  for  now 
they  choose to make some profit.  Atari will be getting  aggressive  on 
pricing  of bundled DTP systems,  rather than on individual  components. 
Details were finalized VERY recently in meetings with Sam Tramiel, but I 
cannot  go into them now because the dealers have not yet been  informed 
of the program.  By the way, I did say hello to Jeff Wilson today. And I 
expect 15% of your upcoming raise. ga

.Andy> Thanks, Steve. Darek... GA.

.steve.reiser> thanks, Good luck and I hope you sell a million ga

.Darek> Will the "newer" ROMs still contain the old GEM,  or will  Atari 
have  to switch to the latest crippled GEM (which I've seen  and  totaly 
hate!).   Also,   will  the  ST/Mega  line  ever  have  better  graphics 
resolution,  or is it eternally doomed with a 32K screen so that we  all 
have to go buy ABAQs?   Finally,  is Atari getting involved with any  of 
the developers of the 16MHz accelerator board(s) for the ST? (if so, and 
even if not, do you know when those will be available and from who?) And 
pleeeeeeeeeease kill the XE game system ads on TV GA

.Neil> Atari has no intention of changing versions of GEM.  At this time 
I  cannot comment on anything related to  unannounced  'products,  which 
would  include anything about screen resolutions.  I am not playing  coy 
with you, but this is not the forum for a product announcement, and none 
was  made at Comdex/Spring.  I have not yet seen the 16 MHz board --  it 
did not make it to the show here (the story I heard had something to  do 
with  grand  theft:  auto).  Our engineers wonder just how  effective  a 
higher  clock  speed would be in improving  the  ST's  performance.  Our 
system of video/cpu interleaving of memory already pushes the system bus 
to  the  limits,  and any faster chip is likely to result in  many  wait 
states  and  little  speed improvement.  Of  course,  we  all  hope  the 
developers came up with something clever we hadn't thought of! As for XE 
GS on TV,  if it sells,  it will continue.  I'd be happier to get the ST 
products on TV along side them and not in their place. ga

.Darek> Thanks.. ga

.Andy> Thanks, Darek. Jim?

JLSTOKES> Is Atari still planning an IBM compatible hardware add on  for 
the Mega and ST for the business market? ga

.Neil> That project had been in development, but after this long, I have 
lost track of it -- we were working with an outside engineering group. I 
am  not  sure it can be done at a lower cost than a complete  PC  clone, 
either. ga

.Andy> Thanks, Jim...

JLSTOKES>  Don't  you think that is necessary for the Mega to  be  taken 
seriously?

.Neil>  It wouldn't hurt...  but the ST or Mega should stand on its  own 
merits or I doubt they can succeed regardless of compatibility. ga

.Andy> Go ahead, Andy.

DISNEYNUT> What can we as end users do to get more support for the Atari 
from  local vendors?  In my part of the country there is  no  Federated; 
software and service vendors are almost non-existent.  Local user groups 
have petitioned software chains (like B.  Dalton's) who recently dropped 
Atari,  to no avail. Is there someone at Atari we could write to contact 
these vendors? Or are we stuck with mail-order?

.Neil> Where are you?

DISNEYNUT> Milwaukee, Wi

.Neil>  Your area is currently suffering from the lack of a  sales  rep. 
The last rep we had there is no longer with us, and we are very actively 
seeking  a  replacement who is capable of  servicing  the  midwest.  Our 
experience  is that with a strong sales rep in the  territory,  problems 
like this are solved very quickly. ga

.Andy> Good question, Andy... D.F. Scott is up.

.D.F.Scott.(CS)>  I don't see why,  in order for a computer to be  taken 
seriously it has to run substandard (read:  PC) software. Anyway Neil, a 
review  of the Mega 4 in Unix Review Magazine stated,  in  rough  terms, 
that  for  what  the  Mega  with IDRIS  offered  in  terms  of  business 
networking, a stripped Sun terminial would be much more preferable for a 
slightly greater expense. With DRAM prices only going through higher and 
higher roofs, can Atari afford to remain price-competitive? GA

.D.F.Scott.(CS)> [pardon my spelling, that should be "terminal."]

.Neil>  DRAM prices are a factor to Sun as well as to  Atari.  Since  we 
like to price our products with slimmer margins than companies like Sun, 
we  refelect  parts increases faster.  But if DRAM prices  stay  higher, 
other  manufacturers will inevitably follow suit.  We have already  seen 
prices of most '286 systems increasing. ga

.Andy> Thanks,  DF.  Dave, you're up..

Dave>  Thanks.  Neil,  I've heard  talk  (read:  vague,  unsubstantiated 
rumors) of third-party development of an add-on module for the SLM804 to 
allow  it PostScript capability...Presuming that this  product  actually 
does appear,  eventually, what level of support can we expect to see for 
it from Atari? ga

.Neil> No can comment, sorry.  ga

.Andy> Ok, MRGOODPROBE.

.Mr.  Goodprobe> Neil,  you mentioned "Point of sales",  what are these, 
and how come we have not heard of these previously?...thanks...

.Neil> POS systems take the place of cash registers.  Systems  currently 
available  include ones from Viewtouch (on display at Comdex)  and  from 
Beckmeyer. ga

.Andy> Ok, Jim.. you're up.

JLSTOKES>  Are there plans for any further Atari Fests (with or  without 
Atari) and will a list of them be made available? ga.

.Neil>  That is a good question.  There are user groups  planning  Atari 
fests without waiting for Atari to get involved,  including Seattle this 
weekend,  Chicago in August, and L.A. in September. I am a big supporter 
of fests with Atari's active aid,  as is Sam Tramiel.  My hope is to get 
someone on board at Atari to handle coordination of the events. ga 
.Andy> Ok, Neil is getting tired... last two questions: Jeff, your turn.

.Jeff> okay thanks,  easy one for you....  will we ever see the Atari PC 
clones and when?

.Neil> In the latest issue of Stewart Alsop's PC Letter,  he removed the 
Atari  PC  from  the vaporware list into the special hall  of  fame  for 
products that will *never* come out.  Whereupon he received probably the 
first  call ever from a company demanding to be placed on the  list.  We 
still  plan to ship PC's into the US later this year.  Although we  will 
probably never ship the PC1 here, the one with no slots. ga

.Jeff>  I  read  about something similar in PC work,  thats  why  I  was 
wondering thanks ga

.Andy> Ok, lastly.... Lloyd, your turn.

MADMODIFIER>  Is  Atari doing anything to  simplify  GDOS?  A  tutorial, 
something to simplify the system....And is there someway to  standardize 
GDOS....we have a 'standard' that isn't standard, everyone implements it 
differently

.Neil> Yes. ga

MADMODIFIER> care to expound?

.Neil> Not at this hour.

.Andy> Is the GDOS you mentioned from Germany defintely going to be  the 
one  for  Atari  to  release  next?  Or  are  others  still  open  for.. 
consideration (like CFJ's GLF GDOS)?

.Neil> It is not yet definite,  it still has to pass muster.  So  others 
can still be considered. ga

.Andy> I think that about does it...Neil has been gracious enough to..go 
beyond the hour he set down.  Thanks so much for your  time,  Neil...and 
thanks to all of you for your questions.