Conference 7.286::atarist

    what is the best way to use whack with ultrix systems?
    
    rw
    

    Form working with System V the answer is, via a DECServer 200 with
    load V2.0 or better.
    
    The next thing you need is an equivalent to STRANSF.EXE and I am
    about to work on that.

    Version 9.0 leaves a cursor ghost on the screen that is sometimes
    wreaking havoc with the cursor display in other programs.  Any
    chance for a fix?  Is this only in the blitter version of the ROMs?
    
    						-Dave

Text cursor or mouse cursor?  Is release 9 leaving the text cursor on
when it exits?  I think release 9 may contain an incorrect algorithm for
deciding if you were invoked from a shell or from the desktop, and is
therefore turing the text cursor on when it exits.

(I've been letting bit rot accumulate in Whack lately.)

    It's the text cursor... but it doesn't seem to hang any of my
    applications.
    
    It's just annoying. :-)
    					- HBM

    Jeff, I seem to be having a problem with Whack these days...
    
    It Came to Pass that DIS decreed: 'We are worried about System Breakins
    on the Easynet. Therefore, We will add Passwords and Change all
    Inbound Numbers.'
    
    Thus, I was forced to use Tymnet (ugh) for awhile. It seemed that
    every time SSU was winding down (e.g. when I logged out of the last
    session) that Whack would give me two bombs and return to the desktop.
    Unfortunately, once I got there, the mouse would not work, so I
    had to reboot.
    
    This _could_ be related to my new disk drive (see the "roll your
    own" screed), and not Tymnet, but I doubt it...
    
    Have you seen this behavior?
    				- HBM

This one isn't related to your disk drive problem. Whack does that
sometimes when you exit.  I haven't figured out why yet.  It's one of
those phase-of-the-moon things.  Actually, I suspect it's related to the
phase of the cursor at the instant that the session is deleted.  It
doesn't hit me often, but has happend enough for me to know it's a bug.

Ever try to fix an intermittent bug?

Oh, by the way, can we move the STRANSF problems out of the KERMIT topic
and into this one?

             <<< BOLT::MAY14$DUA1:[NOTES$LIBRARY]ATARIST.NOTE;1 >>>
                       -< Atari's 68000 based systems. >-
================================================================================
Note 62.6                      Kermit:- how fast?                        6 of 15
CSOA1::FISHER "Al Fisher"                             5 lines  27-APR-1988 07:02
                  -< what file types will STRANSF transfer? >-
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

    Can Whack/Stransf be used to d/l .prg and .arc files or will it
    only transfer asciii files?
    
    AL
    
================================================================================
Note 62.7                      Kermit:- how fast?                        7 of 15
BOLT::WARE "Ralph Ware @ MSD/AD"                      5 lines  27-APR-1988 08:45
                                    -< yes >-
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

    it works fine for both binary and ascii files; and as noted above
    is FAST.
    
    rw
    
================================================================================
Note 62.8                      Kermit:- how fast?                        8 of 15
BOLT::WARE "Ralph Ware @ MSD/AD"                      4 lines  27-APR-1988 08:47
                               -< clarification >-
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

    re .-1  I was talking about stransf in responce to .-2 which may
    not have been clear.
    
    
================================================================================
Note 62.9                      Kermit:- how fast?                        9 of 15
DYO780::SCHAFER "Walk between the lines"              9 lines  27-APR-1988 09:48
                           -< A dissenting opinion >-
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

    For what it's worth, I've had boatloads of trouble with STRANSF. I have
    never been able to get the thing to work with anything other than ASCII
    files ... and then it only works periodically.  It's probably my fault,
    but I can't figure out what's going on. 

    As for speed, UNITERM's Kermit is pretty fast (and nice and easy to
    use, too).  You might want to give that a try. 

-b
================================================================================
Note 62.10                     Kermit:- how fast?                       10 of 15
PRNSYS::LOMICKAJ "Jeff Lomicka"                      38 lines  27-APR-1988 10:45
                  -< If it doesn't work, something's wrong. >-
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Interesting.  Whack/Stransf actually ONLY works on binary (.ARC,.PRG)
files.  It works okay on text files if you use a text editor that is
very forgiving about what line boundaries are.  When I upload source
files with it, there are spurious ^M's inserted at the end of every
line.  Downloaded source files have only linefeeds between each line,
no carriage returns.

Of course, since I use a forgiving text editor at each end, this isn't
a problem.  I have a single VAX Emacs command that gets rid of the ^M,s
and ST Microemacs doesn't care if the ^M's are missing.

I would like to explore possibilities as to why those of you who are
having trouble have encountered difficulty.   The most frequest reasons
for the failure of STRANSF to work are the following:

 - SSU must be enabled.  So far, it only works with VAX SSU, and doesn't
work with the DECServer "SET MULTI ENABLE" command.  If SSU is not
enabled, STRANSF will hang when it gets to record number 19, which is a
^S.  I depend on the feature of SSU that encodes ^S and ^Q as data.

 - ^S and ^Q must be enabled on the physical wire.  If you dial into a
DECServer, you should "Local> SET FLOW XON" before connecting to your
host VAX.  You should SET TERM/HOSTSYNC/TTSYNC before you issue SSU
ENABLE.  (This should be the default anyway, but some system managers
change the defaults, and some systems don't SET TERM /INQ.)  You also
must have XON/XOFF enabled in Whack's communications set-up.  (This is
the default.)  If you are using an old LAT-11, which has no XON/XOFF,
you may not be able to perform the transfer at all, but try telling VMS
to SET TERM /HOSTSYNC/TTSYNC and see if that helps.

 - Something in your communications path may be stripping off the 8'th
bit of data.  Stransf assumes that it has a full 8-bit binary channel
between itself and Whack.  If your LAT, your Micom/Gandalf switch, your
modem, your communictaions setup, or your VMS SET TERM/EIGHTBIT settings
are wrong, STRANSF will fail.  If typing ALT-A-E doesn't generate "�",
you don't have an 8-bit channel.


================================================================================
Note 62.11                     Kermit:- how fast?                       11 of 15
RDGENG::KEANE                                        13 lines  27-APR-1988 11:00
                          -< Fat fingers stike again >-
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

    re 62.10
    
    Gee Jeff,
    
    	      	I think I did everything wrong when I was trying to use Stransf
previously !!!                          
               With a printout of 62.10 in hand I will try again tonight,
  I am sure it will work great !. If it doesnt I'll let u know
    
  Thanks for the info!
    
    
  Pat k.                             
================================================================================
Note 62.12                     Kermit:- how fast?                       12 of 15
DYO780::SCHAFER "Walk between the lines"             18 lines  27-APR-1988 14:33
                        -< Mah frayns cawl mi sytoopid >-
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

RE: "If it doesn't work, something's wrong"

    !!!

RE: .11

    Ditto here.  I rarely enable SSU when I bring the ST into the office.
    I'm usually just doing file xfers rather than multi-session what-not,
    so I've never had much luck using STRANSF.

    My head is fat, rather than my fingers.

    BTW - did you know that ALT SHIFT F10 (or reset with SSU enabled on the
    ST but not on the VAX) causes 2 little bombs to appear?  I know, I know
    - if it hurts ... 


-brad_the_abashed
================================================================================
Note 62.13                     Kermit:- how fast?                       13 of 15
CSOA1::FISHER "Al Fisher"                             5 lines  28-APR-1988 14:00
                            -< DS200 SSU - When ?? >-
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

    Do you have any idea when Whack/Stransf WILL work with the SSU
    implemenation on the DS200?
    
    AL
    
================================================================================
Note 62.14                     Kermit:- how fast?                       14 of 15
BENTLY::MESSENGER "An Index of Metals"                2 lines  28-APR-1988 14:04
                                  -< <Sigh> >-
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

    You mean it doesn't??? Ugh.
    				- HBM
================================================================================
Note 62.15                     Kermit:- how fast?                       15 of 15
PRNSYS::LOMICKAJ "Jeff Lomicka"                       4 lines  29-APR-1988 09:45
                          -< It didn't work for me. >-
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

When I tried it, STRANSF didn't work when the DECserver was
multiplexing sessions instead of the VAX.  I have not yet investigated
the reasons for this.

    SET TERMINAL/INQUIRE sends a reset sequence to VTxxx's.  The problem
    I am having with WHACK is that exiting mail, without setting my
    pagesize correctly (I have WHACK set for 34 lines of text), leaves
    lines 25-34 inaccesible, until I run another program (like VAXnotes)
    that apparently sets the current size to that specified by SET
    TERM/PAGE.  On my workstation, simply typeing SET
    TERMINAL/INQUIRE/PAGE:50 seems to set my workstation size correctly.
    I guess what I am asking for is to have WHACK set its scrolling
    region to the full size of window, based on the attributes set by
    the ST user when it receives the reset from the SET TERMINAL/INQUIRE.
    
    Not the best wording, but hopefully my point got across.
    
    							Thanks,
    							-Dave

Well, I investigated this.  It turns out that SET TERM/INQ does NOT send
a soft terminal reset (DECSTR), but upon noticing that Whack is a level 2
terminal, it sends a select conformance level (DECSCL) to ensure that
the terminal is receiving in a level 2 compliant mode.  Since Whack is
strictly a level 2 terminal, I ignore DECSCL altogether.  Reading the
fine print in DEC STD 70, I see that DECSCL also implies the function of
DECSTR.  In the next release, I will have fixed Whack so that DECSCL is
equivalent to DECSTR.

This should make Dave happy, although a much cleaner solution to his
problem is to either use RESIZE.COM to set the terminal size, or to
create a DCL command that sends (CSI r), which will reset the scrolling
region.

$! RESIZE.COM, set terminal page and width, both in the terminal and in VMS
$! P1 is /PAGE, P2 is /WIDTH.  P2 is optional.  Works for VWS, DECwindows,
$! Whack, and Pixette terminals.
$ IF "''P1'" .EQS. "" THEN P1 = "24"  
$ esc$[0,8] == 27
$ ST[0,8]==156
$ OSC[0,8]==157
$ WRITE sys$output esc$, "[", P1, "t" ! VT300 terminals
$ IF "''P2'" .NES. "" THEN $ WRITE sys$output esc$, "[", P2, "$|" ! VT300 terms
$ WRITE sys$output esc$, "[\1;", p1, ";", p2, ";", p3, ";2W" ! Pixette terminal
$ tty$height = P1
$ IF "''P2'" .NES. "" THEN $ tty$width = p2
$! run uti:settype	! Look up actual width and page (buggy)
$ set term /width='TTY$WIDTH'/PAGE='TTY$HEIGHT'

    
    I have had some problems getting STRANSF to run. I finally chased
    it down to flow control. The 2400/2400 V22 bis modems I use needed
    setting to XON/XOFF passthru mode. With all the other tidbits,   
    SSU enabled, term set hostsync and tt sync etc as per Jeffs idiots
    guide to comms, I have had  100% success with STRANSF. It is very
    fast, 200 plus bytes/sec on the 2400 baud modem.                 
                                                                     
    Thanks Jeff !!                                                   
                                                                     

I now have a slightly newer version of release 9 of Whack.  This
version is compiled with version 3 of the Mark Williams C compiler, and
includes a fix that makes it handle the cursors properly on entry and
exit.

The file is PRNSYS::DUA1:[LOMICKAJ.HOBBY.ST]WHACK.PRG.

The .ACC version has not changed.  The .ARC file has also been updated
for the new version.  Take this version only if you have been having
trouble with the text cursor being left flashing on the screen after
exiting, when Whack is invoked form the desktop.

It turns out that the methods I have been using for finding out if you
are being invoked from a shell or from the desktop were failing on newer
ROMs.  I think release 9 broke it completely.  This update to release 9
will fix it for all ROM versions of TOS, and should continue to work in
the future.

    Re: .12
    
    Seems to be working just fine, thanks, -Dave

    Primarily because of the speed advantage of STRANSF, I have used
    WHACK for all my DEC-connect needs. The thing I miss most about
    the use of other terminal emulators is the ability to send a string
    of characters to my non-Hayes modem with a single key-stroke. I
    believe this ability is called UDK or sometimes Macro keys.
    
    Am I correct in believing that this capability is not yet implemented
    in WHACK? Does anyone know of a PD ACC which will give me this
    capability?

TTY.ACC should be able to dial about 10 brands of modem.  Executables
are in BOLT::USER1:[MINOW.PERSONAL.ATARI.UTIL.TTY]TTY.ARC.

Martin.

UDK's are on my list.

    Jeff,
    
    I have noticed a bug in your handling of SET TERMINAL/INQUIRE when
    SSU is disabled.
    
    Our WELCOME.TXT finishes with a line of dashes (-------) and then
    my LOGIN.COM does a SET TERM/INQUIRE.  The cursor is sitting on
    the left margin, on top of the first dash (it must to a <CR> and
    no <LF> until later).  When the SET TERM/INQUIRE happens, WHACK
    outputs a space, overwriting the first dash.  Everything works ducky
    when SSU is enabled.
    
    This is hardly a crippling bug, but I just thought you might like
    to know.
    
    Steph

    Since Whack needs SSU running before allowing multiple sessions,
    how can I run Whack on my VMS 5.0 VAXstation without SSU...Is there
    an SSU for VMS 5.0..?
    
    							-mike-

Sure is!

     <<< VIDEO::DISK$MISC:[NOTES$LIBRARY]SESSION_SUPPORT_UTILITY.NOTE;1 >>>
                       -< SSU - Session Support Utility >-
================================================================================
Note 64.1                        Version for NK2                          1 of 6
VIDEO::OSMAN "type video::user$7:[osman]eric.vt240"  13 lines  28-APR-1988 10:17
               -< SSU kit for V5.0 and V4.X of VMS is available >-
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Good SSU kit for NK2 is

	video::ssu$011_kit:ssu011.a.

This kit works for V4.x too.

The PAK is

	ssu.pak

Please let me know of any problems using this kit !

/Eric

     <<< VIDEO::DISK$MISC:[NOTES$LIBRARY]SESSION_SUPPORT_UTILITY.NOTE;1 >>>
                       -< SSU - Session Support Utility >-
================================================================================
Note 64.5                        Version for NK2                          5 of 6
VIDEO::OSMAN "type video::user$7:[osman]eric.vt240"  33 lines   6-MAY-1988 16:28
               -< last minute CAUTION! for installing SSU on v5 >-
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Sorry about the mixup.  The release notes are being updated
to include a warning, which I'll show you here.  Could you PLEASE
do the warning and try your installation of same SSU kit again
and make sure that fixes your problem ??  Thanks !  Oh, please
let me know in this note if it worked.

/Eric

				CAUTION!

			*** read this first ***

	Previous test releases of the SSU product created two files
	which you MUST delete before you install V1.1 of SSU.  Failure to do
	so will prevent SSU V1.1 from properly installing, as the system will
	erroneously attempt to load the old files.

	The following short chart indicates which files you must
	delete (or rename, if you care to save them) before installing
	V1.1 of SSU.  (If you don't have the files, just proceed
	with the installation.)

		If you're on VAX/VMS V4.x, delete these files:
		----------------------------------------------

			sys$specific:[sysexe]tddriver.exe.*
			sys$specific:[sysexe]ssu.exe

		If you're on VAX/VMS V5.0, delete these files:

			sys$specific:[sys$ldr]tddriver.exe
			sys$specific:[sysexe]ssu.exe

This note describes a VMS command file that will automatically set up a
number of WHACK windows that are already logged in and running your favorite
applications.

As long as you have SSU installed, this procedure does NOT require any
special privs.  It does require a generous subprocess quota.  If you
have privs, more elaborate configurations are possible.

You will need the CHILD utility.  Installation instructions are
included in this note.  CHILD is also discussed in BULOVA::VWS topic
2661 and BULOVA::DECWINDOWS topic 643.  Feel free to discuss it here
also. The instructions for CHILD assume that you are going to use it on
a DECWindows or VWS workstation, but what they don't tell you is that
WHACK implements many of the VWS OSC sequences, and that if you point
/DEVICE at the template device for SSU, it creates new SSU sessions.

Here is an example command file that you use for setting up your Whack
windows.  This command file is executed after you first log in BEFORE
you enable SSU.  The command file will ENABLE SSU for you.  YOU WILL
GET VERY CONFUSED IF YOU ATTEMPT TO RUN THIS COMMAND FILE AFTER SSU IS
ALREADY ENABLED.  You should modify this file to create only the
processes you really want.  It is provided as an example that you can
change to suit your own needs.

$!	BWINDOWS.COM windows for use from home with VWSSSU or WHACK
$!
$!	To use this file, log in through WHACK or VWSSSU, and instead of
$!	saying "SSU ENABLE", say "@BWINDOWS".  The result will be a bunch
$!	of windows running useful applications.  You must have CHILD
$!	installed, either as single user or system wide.  Read BULOVA::VWS
$!	topic 2661 for information on CHILD.
$!
$!	Note that device name must be picked up BEFORE enabling SSU.
$!
$ ssudevice == f$getdvi( "SYS$OUTPUT:", "TT_PHYDEVNAM")
$ ssu enable
$!	Windows.com
$ child/device=sys$output:/nocommand/device='ssudevice' -
	/ititle=parent/title="Parent process to everything"
$
$ child/device='ssudevice'/shrink/line/insert/nobroad -
	/page=40/ix=0.5/iy=21.5/wx=6/wy=6 -
	/ititle=mail/title="Electronic mail window" mail
$
$ child/device='ssudevice'/shrink/line/insert -
	/page=40/ix=0.5/iy=11/wx=6/wy=3 -
	/ititle=notes/title="VAX notes window" notes
$
$ child/device='ssudevice'/shrink/line/insert -
	/page=40/ix=0.5/iy=4/wx=4/wy=5 -
	/ititle=what/title="What's happening"
$
$ child/device='ssudevice'/shrink/line/insert/nobroad -
	/page=24/ix=0.5/iy=7.5/wx=5/wy=4 -
	"MONI PROC/TOPC"/ititle=topcpu
$
$ child/device='ssudevice'/shrink/line/insert -
	/page=40/ix=0.5/iy=14.5/wx=7/wy=2 -
	"emacs/nosub"/ititle=emacs
$
$ child/device='ssudevice'/shrink/line/insert -
	/page=24/ix=0.5/iy=18/wx=8/wy=1 -
	"set host prnsys"/ititle=prnsys:: -
	/title="PRNSYS set host terminal"
$
$!	End of bwindows.com

	CHILD.TXT	J.A.Lomicka	6-July-1988		Version 5

				    Overview
				    --------

	CHILD is a DCL command similar in function to SPAWN/NOWAIT, or to
	RUN/DETACH, with the controlling terminal for the process created
	as a new workstation window, either DECWindows or VWS.

	CHILD can replace all the hacks that use the CRETERM programs and
	command files.

	CHILD has a plethora of qualifiers that allow you to specify many
	of the attributes and characteristics of the terminal and the
	process.

				  Installation
				  ------------

	To install CHILD, you need the following files:
	    PRNSYS::DUA1:[LOMICKAJ.CHILD]CHILDINSTALL.COM
					 CHILD.CLD
					 CHILD.HLP
					 CHILD.TXT    (This file)
					and one of
					 CHILD.EXE    (VMS V5 version)
					or
					 CHILD_v4.EXE (VMS V4 version)

	If you are on a VMS V4 system, rename CHILD_v4.EXE to replace
	CHILD.EXE.  The difference is that the V4 version is compiled
	/NOSYSSHR, and as a result it is a much larger file. (The v4 file
	is 164 blocks.  The v5 file is only 30 blocks.)

	To install for yourself only, SET DEFAULT to a directory that
	contains these files and say
	    $ @CHILDINSTALL
	This installation will persist for the life of the process.  You
	will need to do it each time you log in.  You will have to read
	the help file directly.

	To install CHILD permanantly in the system, enable privs and say
	    $ @CHILDINSTALL SYSTEM
	This installs CHILD into the system directories, and makes CHILD a
	regular DCL command, and incorporates the CHILD help file into the
	system help file.

	If you wish to have sources, you should also take
					  CHILD.C
					  NEWTERM.C
					  NEWPROC.C
					  SETMODE.C
					  CTLSEQ.C
					  CHILD.OPT
					  CHLID_v4.OPT
					  DESCRIP.MMS

	A copy of "*.*" from this directory will get you all of these files.

	Say HELP CHILD RELEASE to get release notes for this version.
	Say HELP CHILD PROCESS /IMAGE to find out about creating detached
	processes.

				      Note
				      ----

	With version 4, /ROWS, /COLUMNS, and /WINDOWTITLE are gone.
	Please use /PAGE, /WIDTH, and /TITLE instead.  These qualifiers
	have been modified to be used either at window creation time, or to
	send control sequences, depending on the type of terminal being
	created.  VWS uses them at creation time.  /DEVICE or /DECWINDOWS
	will perform these functions with control sequences.  Also note
	that /ICONTITLE has been renamed to ITITLE.  If the VWS version is
	prior to 3.3, /WIDTH and /PAGE will still send control sequences,
	since size could not be specified at creation time as it can in
	V3.3 or later versions of VWS.  This is important to know if you
	use the /NOCOMMAND/NEWTERM=logname form of CHILD, since sending
	sequences causes the terminal to disappear before you get a chance
	to use it.

    
     I dial to my VAX VMS V5 machine through a CALLBACK machine. I would
     like to know if it's possible to use WHACK/SSU in that case.
     
     ERIC

I need to know more details of the callback machine.  Is it separate
hardare, or a VAX program?  If it's separate hardware, it should be no
problem at all.  If it's a VAX program, there may be a problem.  If the
"DISCONNECT" DCL command works, then SSU works.

Since you are running VMS V5, I may be able to provide a replacement
for SSU that does not place such restrictions on you as the official
SSU does.  It would the DECWindows PY/TW drivers.  It would work across
SET HOST and stuff like that.  If there's interest, I'll whip one up.

The callback machine is a program running on a VAX, used for remote
    dial_in accesses to our
machine. First, you have to dial in the Callback machine and give your phone
number + name to it, then the machine
calls you back. Then you log in a session and the machine performs a SET HOST to
your own machine.



                                        ************      *************
                            +------+    * CALLBACK *      *MY VAX VMS5*
atari 	+---PHONE LINE------+ modem|***** MACHINE  *......*MACHINE    *
modem                       +------+    ************      *************

The "DISCONNECT" LAT command does not work, so I think SSU will not
    work.
Thanks a lot for your answer.

    
    Hello Jeff, et al
    
    	Our beloved system mangler has recently upgrade the dial-up
    Decserver 200's on our cluster to V2 software. Since then I am having
    some funny (peculiar) problems up-loading and downloading to home.
    
    	Firstly, I believe that SSU is still being accomplished on the
    cluster, not the server. 
    
    	If I try to upload from the ST to the VAX, the transmission
    of data proceeds, my disk clunks for the right amount of time and
    then stops. I do not get a completion message, and I cannot get
    back to DCL prompt. Control C,Y have no effect. If I create a second
    session, and show sys, my first process is at LEF. I stop the process
    and if I look in the VAx directory, lo, the file I have transferred
    is sitting there intact.
    
    	If I try to download from the VAx to the Atari, if the file
    is short 8-10K ish itworks OK, on longer files the transfer starts
    to run for some minutes and then starts grumbling about erros and
    starting again from block zero, again I cannot get out of this,
    apart from setting up a second session and killing the process.

    I was extremely happy with Whack and STransf,  so am very upset
    that it dont seem to work now. 
    
    Are all my problems due to the DEC Server 200's and version 2, or
    has anyone got STRANSF working with the above set-up??
    
    Replies gratefully Received !!!
       
    Pat Keane
       

I'm glad  it's  not  just  me.  I use the same cluster as Pat and
have  had  the same problems for the past month or so.  (I didn't
know they'd upgraded the server s/w Pat).

I've had  to go back to Uniterm/Kermit -- any ideas on how we can
get Whack transfers working again, Jeff?

Adrian

Whack users, please don't be shy about sending me mail or writing notes
about your problems.  How do you go for two months with Stransf broken?
I'm actively working on release 10 now, so it's a good time to get your
gripes in.  As time permits, I'll even accomodate new feature requests,
or at least arrange my priorities according to the requests that come
in.  UDK's and login sequences are at the top of my list.  I've already
got working support for the other two built-in Atari fonts (the icon
font, and the 50-line mode font).  I'm trying to finish the rest of the
VWS mouse control sequences.  I'm trying to figure out a way to keep
Whack from converting both mouse buttons into left button events.  I'm
also bulding a combined microemacs/whack which looks like Whack with one
window being a local microemacs.

Some things I've found and fixed:

 - Using session setup or chainging the window title when the window title is
hidden by the mode line causes Whack to hang.  BTW, this is also why the
CHILD demo that I posted earlier in this topic doesn't work for you.  It
will work if you take out all the /PAGE qualifiers.

 - Exiting Whack or doing some reset functions will sometimes make
release 9 bomb, depending onthe phase of the cursor.

Now to the problem at hand.  The version 2 decserver-200 is the same
configuration that I use.  I always tell the server "SET FLOW XON"
before I connect to my VAX.  have you tried this?

If that doesn't work, I'd like to see SHOW PORT and SHOW SERVER
displays.  (Capture them with ALT-mouse).

    Jeff, will there be a WHACK.ACC coming out soon for the latest version
    of the emulator...and any chance of placing a digital clock (not
    military time please) in the upper portion of the screen, readable
    at all times...?
    
    Thanks for a great piece of software...
    
    								-mike-

  I seem to suffer from the same "hanging problems" when you try to
  transfer anything using STRANSF. So ... me too back to Kermit...

  Enclosed the port descriptions, as requested. Did I do anything wrong?

Theo

Local> show port 


Port 6:  klerk

Character Size:            8           Input Speed:        1200
Flow Control:            XON           Output Speed:       1200
Parity:                 None           Modem Control:   Enabled

Access:                Local           Local Switch:       None
Backwards Switch:       None           Name:             PORT_6
Break:                 Local           Session Limit:         4
Forwards Switch:        None           Type:               Ansi

Preferred Service: None

Authorized Groups:   0
(Current)  Groups:   0

Enabled Characteristics:

Autobaud,  Autoprompt,  Inactivity Logout,  Input Flow Control,
Loss Notification,  Message Codes,  Output Flow Control,  Verification

Local> show session 
Port 6:  klerk               Local Mode    Current Session 1
- Session 1: Connected       Pasthru       IJSAPL


Local> 
  

Sigh.

The DECServer characteristics look okay.  I'm not sure what the "passthru"
characteristic is, but as long as the DECSERVER has incoming and and
outgoing flow control enabled, it ought to work.

Oh, Oh, OH!  I just thought of something.  Would somebody who has a
problem with STRANSF haning please try $ SET TERM /NOFALLBACK, and see
if it clears things up?

  That is the default terminal setting here. But I'll give it a try by
  specifying it explicity from WHACK. Fear it won't make a difference...

  Theo

    Does WHACK depend on actually seeing ^S and ^Q? If it does, that
    LAT setup won't work. PASSTHRU, XON, and Input Flow /Output Flow
    will turn ^S and ^Q to ^@ (null).
    
    Methinks SET INP FLO DIS and SET OUT FLO DIS need to be set...
    				- HBM

   I don't believe it, but it seems to work. I transfered a 77 and 648 block
   file and STRANSF completes normally. Well... on the77 block file it
   completed and said "0 blocks copied to c:\tex\tex.doc" though it had
   copied the file.

   The port setting is the same as the one I reported, I did an explicit
   set term/nofall within WHACK session, though my brain says that should
   not make a difference: it was a /nofallback terminal by default.

   So I'm puzzled, but it worked. At approx. 45% the time required by Kermit.

   Could I make a suggestion to have STRANSF report now and again how many
   blocks have meanwhile been copied: a silent terminal for an hour always
   makes me a little jumpy. Am I wasting phone bills or do I get something
   useful?

   Theo

I think I fixed the "0 bytes transferred" message in a more recent
version of Stransf.  I'd have to check, but it doesn't hurt to fetch a
new one.  It would be easy to add progress messages to Stransf.c.  For
uploads, drop a "printf( "Uploaded %d bytes so far\n", bytecount);"
after line 590, and for download, drop a "Tflush( out); printf(
"Downloaded %d bytes so far\n", bytecount);" after line 734, that is,
after the "Tputc( 0234, out);"

While uploading (from Atari to VMS), you can printf() whatever you want
whenever you want, since the only other things sent by Stransf are
error message codes.

While downloading from the VAX to the Atari, you can printf() only after
performing a "Tflush( out);" to be sure my own I/O queues are emptied,
and after the 0234 character code is transmitted, indicating the end of
a data or control packet.

 I think I have to withdraw my previous reply that STRANSF suddenly seemed
 to work. Today it didn't. Becoming most noticable when the fish started
 to swim a bit faster. Using another session and a SHOW PROC/CONT proved
 the STRANSF was just doing absolutely nothing in LEF mode.

 So it seems more a random behaviour: it works and it doesn't. File was
 transfered completely.

 Theo

I do not completely understand.  Do you mean to say that the file transfers
completely, but STRANSF hangs instead of exiting?

I have experienced this sometimes when I use other sessions while the file
transfer is in progress.  It is hard to reproduce, but I have seen it.  I have
never had this problem if I leave the other sessions alone.

 Yes - there was only the one session doing STRANSF. Only after I started
 to doubt, I started a 2nd session to run SHOW PROCES/CONTI to confirm my
 suspicion.

 Theo

The more important question being - does it hang DURING the transfer, or AFTER
the transfer, but waiting to exit?  If it consistently hanging while trying to
exit, you may be simply hitting the single-session case of the problem I have
seen in multiple sessions, which would be a much easier problem to locate.

 It must hang AFTER the transfer, since the file send to the VAX or copied
 from it is always complete and where it is assumed to be.
 I've never used it with wildcard copy (if that is allowed - never tried).

 Theo

That's good news - it means I think I can reproduce it.  I can only fix
problems that I can reproduce.

There is no built-in suppport for wildcards, but it's possible to write
a DCL command procedure to do wildcard downloads.

  Perhaps some new light on the STRANSF behaviour. Today I was bitten by it
  again, but noted suddenlt that CTRL/U and <DELETE> were not working the
  way they were supposed to. Doing a show terminal showed a VT102...

  I started the session with IC.PRG (a VT102 terminasl emulator). Later,
  seeing the GULAM arriving in my mail, EXITed and started WHACK.
  Doing a MCR SSU ENABLE gave me the multiplce session ability. I started
  the STRANSF to copy the ARC files to my Atari and... hung in the end.

  I noticed the funny key-behaviour so decided to log out the session
  and start a new WHACK session and did an additional STRANSF which did
  end with the  proper message of completion.

  So I'm wondering whether this "hanging" is indeed related to a false
  setting of the terminal characteristics if somehow the connection was made
  into the VAX/VMS with something else then WHACK...

  Theo

Interesting.  VT102's aren't /EIGHTBIT/HOSTSYNC, whereas Whack is. 
/EIGHTBIT is absolutely required, and I thought I set it up in STRANSF.
Upon looking at the source, I see that I don't.  (I force /HOSTSYNC,
but not /EIGHTBIT.)  Also, it appears that for DOWNLOADING, (From VAX
to Atari), I have the XON/XOFF stuff set up wrong, and that could be
the source of the problem.  Perhaps the problem can be cured by
performing the right IO$M_SETMODEs to the terminal at the beginning of
Stransf.  I'll make these changes and see if Stransf get's more robust.

I noticed last week that the CAPTURE FILE feature of Whack just plain
didn't work at all.  If you hit the CAPTURE option on the "closer"
menu, it opens a file that logs a session.  If you hit it again, it
closes the log.  This was broken for who knows how long.  I'm surprised
nobody noticed.

Latest versions of PRNSYS::DUA1:[LOMICKAJ.HOBBY.ST]WHACK.PRG and
WHACK.ACC fix this problem.

This is the 6-FEB-1989 version, according to the ABOUT text.

WHACK.ACC was eaten by disk errors last night.  I'm getting the disk fixed.
Everything should be back tomorrow.  If PRNSYS is off the net for a while
today, you'll know why.

Okay, I'm back up and running with new media.  WHACK.PRG and WHACK.ACC
are back.  If you uploaded between noon yesterday and before this note,
there is some chance you got the obsolete copy of Whack that was on the
backup, rather than the fixed one I mentioned here yesterday.

    I've downloaded V10 of WHACK and notice something different - maybe
    it's a setting.  When I do a SSU ENABLE on the VAX it does not clear
    the screen when it starts the new session as it used to.

Yes, besides the CAPTURE fix, there are lots of differences between
release 9 and release 10.

It's been so long, and I haven't kept track.  I'm string to think abour writing
a reasonable user's guide.

For example, you can now specify arbitrary font sizes when using the
"Atari" font.  Atari font is the default.

	In my attempt to get Whack to run correctly again after upgrading 
my VS-II to VMS 5.1/DECwindows. I get this message each time I try to enable 
SSU. I don't have a VDA0 virtual terminal device defined or loaded. Could this
be the problem? How do I load VDA0 under VMS V5.1?

$ssu enable
%SSU-E-ENABLE_FAIL, failure to enable multiple sessions on _LTA2:
-SSU-E-NOT_VT, specified device is not associated with a virtual terminal

								Thanks
								-mike-

You must have VTA loaded and running to use SSU from a DECServer line.

To do this, you have to set TT_DEFCHAR2 sysgen parameter to have the
DISCONNECT bit set, and load the driverin SYSTARTUP_V5.COM.

On PRNSYS, TT_DEFCHAR2 is:
Parameter Name             Current   Default   Minimum   Maximum Unit 
--------------             -------   -------   -------   ------- ---- 
TTY_DEFCHAR2              16912386      4098         0        -1 Bit-Encoded

and in SYSTARTUP_V5.COM, I have:
$ If .not. F$GETDVI("_VTA:","EXISTS") Then -
	Sysgen Connect VTA/NoAdapter/Driver=TTDRIVER

There is a new WHACK.PRG and WHACK.ACC in PRNSYS::DUA1:[LOMICKAJ.HOBBY.ST].

This version fixes a problem where using the fuller or enlarging windows
with the sizer would cause bombs if there was incoming data at the same
time.  If you have been getting bombs while resizing the windows, you
need this new version.

    Jeff, I was reading a PD Library the other day and came across WHACK
    - no version number was given but it is described as a DEC220 terminal
    emulator so it must be yours. I don't have the full address but
    it was Floppyshop in Aberdeen Scotland. I think the disk reference
    number was UTL58.
    If you want any action taken let me know.
    
    Regards Kev.
    

Hmm.  It's hard to say.  We could:

	1. Ignore it.  This seems unwise.

	2. Call "DEC Legal" - but could be more trouble than it's worth.

	3. Phone the store up and say "This is Digital Equipment Corportion,
	and I have reason to believe you are distributing software that
	is copyrighted an dproprietary to Digital Equipment Corporation."
	and see if they are cooperative in removing this from their
	library, and in identifying where it might have came from or
	gone to.  If this is an isolated mistake, it need not go any
	further, but if this thing is on every BBoard in the UK, we'll
	have to stand up and eradicate it.

	If they are not cooperative, let me know, and call
	your local Legal department and try to explain the situation.

	If you don't have a local legal department, I can call DEC Legal
	here in the U.S. and let them take care of it.

    When I bring up the latest version of Whack.acc, it comes up in the
    larger Atari font as a default value. How can I change this to the 7x11
    font by default. I've tried to set the global default and save values -
    but, each time I bring up Whack.acc - the atari font is the default.
    
    I have whack.prg on my disk, so the patch should work during the
    default parameter save phase...
    
    							Thanks
    							-mike- 

You have to change the Whack's filename item in global setup to whack.acc. 

The filename is the name of the WHACK image in which the global
parameters are saved.  The "save" actually patches the executable image.

Today's version of PRNSYS::DUA1:[LOMICKAJ.HOBBY.ST]WHACK.PRG doesn't
reset the cursor to the top of the window when you do an SSU ENABLE - it
leaves it where it was before the enable.  I only compiled the .PRG, not
the .ACC.  This fix is specifically for Buzz Hamilton, but I know that
this bothers a lot of people.

    Thanks! However, I have a problem. I've copied the program to my
    area and downloaded it to my ST with STRANSF. I get a TOS #35 GEM
    error alert when I try to run it. I assume I've got a corrupted
    image. Has anyone downloaded this image successfully?

That should have worked, I'll look into it tonight.

    Jeff,
    
    A problem with Whack is that if you set the window title optional,
    you can no longer get at the menu items in the closer box.  Howe
    about an entry on the menu bar to do the same thing for the currently
    selected window?
    
    							Thanks,
    							-Dave
    
    p.s. It seems to be working fine on a DECserver 200, I haven't tried
    STRANSF yet.  I notice there have been no updates in over a year,
    did you ever track down the problems with the DECserver?

    Re: .58 To answer my own question about STRANSF
    
    STRANSF seem to work just fine on DECserver 200 V2.0 BL29B ROM BL20
    LAT V5.1 on VMS V5.1.  The only glitch I saw was in starting a new
    session right in the middle of transferring a file.  The file transfer
    aborted.
    
    							-Dave

Under the "Desktop" entry in the menu bar, you will find a copy of the
"closer" icon, and the "fuller" icon.  These entries will operate the
closer and fuller of the top window.

This feature has been there since day one.

Regarding the DECServer - as you have seen, there is some sort of
problem.  You should have been able to create a new session.  Last time
I tried (a year ago) it hung.  I simply haven't bothered to look at the
problem, but I think it might be flow control related. In that case, if
you used a slow wire and a fast hard disk, it might have worked by fluke.

There was an update last week, but Buzz says that my upload is trash.  I
haven't looked at it yet. I've been, ahem, busy.

(Did you know you can empty an 8600 gallon swimming pool in under three
minutes if you do it right?  All you have to do is have small hole in
one of the seams...)

    I re-uploaded the latest WHACK.PRG.  I checked the previous one, and it
    appeared to be corrupt in some way.  Let me know if there are any
    problems with this one.
    
    PRNSYS::DUA1:[LOMICKAJ.HOBBY.ST]WHACK.PRG

		>>>moved by the Moderator<<<
================================================================================
Note 480.0                      "WHACK QUESTIONS"                     No replies
SVCVAX::WELLS                                        16 lines  16-MAY-1989 18:21
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

    CAN ANYONE PROVIDE THE ANSWERS TO A FEW QUESTIONS REGARDING "WHACK"?
    	
    	1) IS THERE ANY ADVANTAGE TO RUNNING WHACK.PRG OVER WHACK.ACC?
    
    	2) WHAT PURPOSE DO THE "FISH" SERVE ON THE DESKTOP SCREEN?
    
    	3) IS THERE ANY WAY TO ACCESS OTHER COLORS THAN WHITE,BLACK,GREEN
    	   AND RED FOR THE FOREGROUND AND BACKGROUND?
    
    	4) IS THERE ANY WAY TO PRINT FROM A SESSION IN WHACK DIRECTLY
    	   TO AN ATTACHED PRINTER AS OPPOSED TO A DISK FILE? IE: SUCH AS WHEN
    	   LOGGED INTO ALL-IN-ONE.
    
    THANKS,
    
    ART

    	
>    	1) IS THERE ANY ADVANTAGE TO RUNNING WHACK.PRG OVER WHACK.ACC?

Yes, WHACK.ACC runs out of a limited memory pool, WHACK.PRG will use all
that is available, if needed.

WHACK.ACC will prevent use of the RIGHT mouse button in all other
applications, because of the funny technique I use to get access to this
button. 

WHACK.ACC uses a lot of memory, and therefore doesn't leave much behind
for other applications.

WHACK.ACC doesn't have the menu bar always visible, you have to call up
a desktop window and use the menu bar from there.

>    	2) WHAT PURPOSE DO THE "FISH" SERVE ON THE DESKTOP SCREEN?

To amuse you, and let you know the difference between a hung program
and an idle one.

To get rid of them, you can set the fish count to 0 in the "timing"
set-up, save the setup, and re-enter Whack.  If amuse yourself, you can
click on them.  Depending on the button and shift key combinations you
use, they may run away, change direction, or change color.

>    	3) IS THERE ANY WAY TO ACCESS OTHER COLORS THAN WHITE,BLACK,GREEN
>    	   AND RED FOR THE FOREGROUND AND BACKGROUND?

Yes, you can change the color map entries using the standard control
panel desk accessory.

>    	4) IS THERE ANY WAY TO PRINT FROM A SESSION IN WHACK DIRECTLY
>    	   TO AN ATTACHED PRINTER AS OPPOSED TO A DISK FILE? IE: SUCH AS WHEN
>    	   LOGGED INTO ALL-IN-ONE.

Yes, give the filename "PRN:" as the filename in the file selector. 
Whack will detect this as a special case and write to the printer
directly. (I haven't tried it in a while, let me know if it's broken) 

    Thanks for the answers to my questions. I think Whack is great,
    especially file transfers using stransf.exe.
    Tried to print directly to my printer from a session using "PRN:"
    and it worked without a hitch.
    
    Thanks again,
    
    Art

         
    In case anyone still cares about this.
    
    The docs for Uniterm claim that it is a VT220 emulator.  This is
    probably the program that you saw in the PD archive.
    
    Steph

	Well I originally copied WHACK V4 a long while back...and it works
great.  So last night I decided to upgrade to the latest and the greatest.

	But when I run WHACK.PRG I get "TOS error #35." and it then bombs
out.  I seen that somebody else had this error a few replies back, so I then
uploaded again...same error.

	Could there be a difference in the ST that you use to develop WHACK on
and my machine?  I have an old 520ST...it has boot ROMs (its not THAT old :^),
but only .5 meg of memory.  The old version of WHACK works just fine, but 
this new one...

	Any help would be appreciated.  It would be nice to not have to
exit WHACK and then start kermit in order to upload files.

	Thanks,
	Chris

RE: .66, since Jeff stores Whack.Prg in Stream_LF record fromat, 
with a carriage return carriage control atrtribute, you must tell 
VMS Kermit "Set File Type Block" prior to saying "Server".  This 
should cause Kermit to just send the bytes of the file and not send 
those corrupt little carriage returns that will trash your download 
and cause TOS error 35.

>RE: .66, since Jeff stores Whack.Prg in Stream_LF record fromat, 
>with a carriage return carriage control atrtribute, you must tell 
>VMS Kermit "Set File Type Block" prior to saying "Server".  This 

	Good answer Roy, I must have done that before when I uploaded version
4.  I guess I have a memory leak in my brain.

	Thanks again,
		Chris

Way back in the dark ages, when I did version 4, I didn't have VMS ARC,
and I didn't know that KERMIT could download STREAM_LF files, so I had
it in SET FILE TYPE BINARY mode.  Now I use ARC a lot, and try to keep
as much as possible in STREAM_LF mode.

Note that you MUST "$ CVTARC V" before usign STRANSF on it, because I
haven't updated STRANSF to work with STREAM_LF files - STRANSF still
wants VAR 510 files.

Would somebody please give me the general idea of what's going on in
the last few notes in topic 481?  They are obviously discussing
something about Whack, but I can't figure out what they are saying. 

I hope it's something good, but if not, I'd like to know if it's
something I can fix.

Jeff,

It was mentioned that WHACK was available.  I mentioned (to make sure it was 
said once in German) that WHACK was DEC internal use only and not PD.  That
was acknowledged.

that was it.

Chad

Hi Jeff

First of all i have to apologize for confusing you by talking about your nice
program WHACK in german. Note 481.* seemed to me beeing some sort of
"German ATARI Conference" within the worldwide ATARIST Conference. I only told
my german friends, that i have WHACK up and running at my office ...

By the way, 
perhaps there is a small error in your excellent file xferintro.txt :

The chapter concerning Kermit transfers states, that Stream_LF is supported :

>	"Stream_LF":  To copy these files, you may say to VMS KERMIT, "SET
>	FILE TYPE BLOCK", and proceed.  Alternatively, you may first
>	convert them to "Variable length maximum 510" files.  The program

The chapter concerning VMS ARC states exactly the opposite :
 
>	2. VMS ARC and ZOO require that your archives be in STREAM_LF
>	format.  Recall that this is a type of binary file that KERMIT
>	does not understand.  Therefore, look at your file attributes.  If

Those two statements confused me a little bit in the beginning ...

Keep on working on this nice program  WHACK !!!


Helmut  [great_atari_fan_&_sorry_about_beeing_confusing]

No need to apologize - I am satisified with the summary that Chad
provided.  I enjoy seeing the notes in German even if I can't read them,
because it looks so good when Whack get's the multi-national characters
right :-)

I was nervous when I saw the comments about "PD" versus "DIGITAL
Internal Use Only.", and wanted to know what was going on.

Very few people have an Atari-ST in their office.  Whack is tuned more
for 2400 baud operation than for 9600 baud.  You may get better
performance by adjusting some of the timing parameters.  You can trade
away interactive response time for overall throughput by adjusting the
timing parameters.  I tried my ST at 19,200 baud one day, but I don't
think you can get more than 350 characters/second out of it.  Once the
STACY is available, I will have an Atari at work more often, and will
figure out the optimum timing parameters for 9600 baud use.

Regarding XFERINTRO.TXT - when I first wrote it, I was unaware that FILE
TYPE BLOCK would transfer the Stream_LF files, and added this statement
at a later time.  I will make the comment about ARC and ZOO more clear.
Thanks for your comments.

    Re: .-1
    
> Once the
> STACY is available, I will have an Atari at work more often
    
    Yah, me too. Tune them parameters, Jeff! 
    
    Oh, by the way, one WHACK nit:
    
    When I enter WHACK and I have a Hayes modem connected, WHACK sees
    itself talking TD/SMP and decides to lock up the 'Session 0' window 
    until I do a Reset Comm. Tell me, what is the recommended procedure for
    avoiding this?
    					- hbm
    

Change from "SSU Enabled" to "SSU Pending" in the global set-up, and
save the parameters this way.  I may have the exact text wrong.

When you start with TDSMP enabled, Whack sends a command to start
sessions immediately when you run it.  This means that if you have
sessions active on the host when you exited Whack, they all come back
automatically when you re-start.  I do this a lot.  I go back to local
to check something on the Atari, and then run Whack again, and all 4 or
5 sessions come back.  (The screens are empty, but the correct number
are there with the correct session numbers.)

If you change to "pending", Whack won't send anything at startup time.

If you exit Whack with sessions enabled, and go back in with "pending"
state selected, and want to get your session back, select "Enable
sessions NOW" in the global set-up.  You will have to do this every
time.

    Re: .-1
    
    [use SSU pending]
    
    I thought that would probably do it. Thanks, Jeff.
    					- hbm

There appears to be a problem in Whack that is aggrivated by the
combination of VMS V5.0 and VAX/EDT.  EDT users may have noticed that
when inserting text into the middle of a line, that the deletion of just
inserted text does not appear to work correctly.

Nobody every told me before that Whack disagrees with VMS EDT, so I
think this problem is new with VMS V5.

A new version of WHACK is available that fixes this problem:

PRNSYS::DUA1:[LOMICKAJ.HOBBY.ST]WHACK.ZOO

which contains:

PRNSYS::DUA1:[LOMICKAJ.HOBBY.ST]WHACK.PRG and
PRNSYS::DUA1:[LOMICKAJ.HOBBY.ST]WHACK.ACC

All three of these files are STREAM_LF, and must be CVTARC V'd before
being transfered with STRANSF.

Perhaps I have overlooked something, but here's my problem:

How do I use the multiple sessions in WHACK. I copied it a while ago 
and it is working fine but it won't let me create another 
session.(GRUMBLE indeed %-))

Enabling SSU didn't help, and on the VAX saying 'SSU> enable' 
generates an error mesage saying something about a virtual terminal to 
which I should be connected.

BTW is there a step by step guide to WHACK; everybody seems to 
understand all features but I am afraid I miss a few points...

I need a few hints, so please...

Regards,

Floris van den Dool

You are using a LAT line?

You need to make sure that the VTA driver is loaded and running.  See
HANNAH::SESSIO_SUPPORT_UTILITY conference.

I'd explain it now, but I've got to run.

    Has anyone turned on mouse support in LSE yet?  I like WHACK a lot
    in EVE, but it seems that LSE shuts off the mouse shortly after
    it starts up.  I just found the TPU builtin SET(MOUSE) ... and will
    try it when I get home.  Thanks Jeff...
    
    							js

Yes, Whack is a window hack, and the mouse should work just fine in LSE,
just as it does on a VAXstation.

The original program was an experiment in GEM "W"indow "HACK"ing. 
Thinks got out of hand, and befre I knew it I had a complete
multi-session, multi-window terminal emulator.

The "filter rectangle" feature is only partially implemented, and
doesn't work at all.  The stuff needed to change the cursor shape and
take mouse clicks works in character cell coordinates only, which should
be just right for LSE.  I use it for VAX Emacs and Microemacs, and have
used it in NOTES which is also based on TPU.

    Re: previous
    
    I like the mouse support in EVE/TPU too...
    
    What I'd like to see in WHACK is more graphic renditions supported:
    especially bold and underline. Double height / width I can live
    without, though.
    				- hbm

I think I can pull off bold and underline.  For various reasons, the way
the code is set up, double width/height is pretty near impossible -
blink would be easier! (An enhancement to the cursor code could pull it off.)

If I ever stare at that code again, I'll keep it in mind.

What's happened to WHACK's scroll bars?

I pulled the latest WHACK.PRG out of WHACK.ZOO to make sure I had the
latest version the other day.  I downloaded this OK, ran it up and noticed
immediately that there were differences between this version and the
version I had previously used (the default terminal window size now takes
up the whole of the ST screen, for instance).

I have a couple of problems using this new version.  Firstly, with the
window size set to the whole screen, WHACK is not able to display a
complete 24-line screen and has to scroll up and down to adjust to output.
I changed this so that the windows were back at their previous size and
noticed that all the WHACK scroll bars were behaving very strangely--every
time a window is re-painted or one of the scroll bars clicked on, the
scroll bars are re-painted four or five times.  Has anyone else seen this?
Until I can stop this re-painting, I'm back to using UniTerm.  Any ideas
Jeff?

Adrian

At one point, I changed the default font that Whack uses to be the
standard Atari font, rather than the internal 7x12 font.  This makes
the "initial state" of the system the same on both color and
monochrome.  You get 23+ lines and 80 coumns, with scroll bars reduced
to 4 pixels.  The cursor coupling feature makes it fairly easy to
manipulate a 24-line display in this mode.

To go back to the smaller 7x12 font (I assume you have a monochrome
monitor), select 7x12 in the "global set-up" form, and do a "save
current settings", which will patch the new values into Whack.Prg. 
Exit, and restart, and your initial window will be regular size again. 
(Or change the existing windows using their session-specific set-up).

The scroll bar problem does NOT sound familiar.  This may be a visual
side-effect of cursor coupling a window that contains a small number of
rows and columns.

P.S., Did you erase your old (working) copy of Whack without keeping a backup?

I already changed the default size of the windows back to the earlier
default.  I still had the scroll bar problem with the smaller windows, but
I haven't played with WHACK for a while -- I'll give it another try.  I
don't have a copy of the old version.

Adrian

I just tried WHACK again.  I'm typing in the Session 0 window now, and all
the window decoration (scroll bars, title bar, buttons) is continuously
being re-painted.  I have tried disabling cursor coupling, but this makes
no difference.

I checked the version number, it's V10.0, linked Sun Sep 10 22:34.33.

Adrian

Something's broken.  Just so that we know we have the same version, I'm
currently using the Sept 24, 20:20:15 version, which you can download
from PRNSYS::DUA2:[LOMICKAJ.HOBBY.ST]WHACKPRG.ZOO.  Try this and
see if it helps.

I can't think of ANYTHING that would explain that behavior.

Jeff,

I tried the Sept 24 version.  Same problem.

There must be something weird with my configuration since nobody else seems
to be suffering from this problem.

Adrian

Jeff and Adrian,

	I just downloaded the latest versions of Whack.acc and Whack.prg (v10)
to my Mega 2 last night using Stransf and I, too, noticed the 'repainting' 
problem, however, I was only aware of it when I went to one of the pull-down
menus - I haven't checked the scroll bars for the same type of behavior.
The problem occurs in both the .acc and .prg versions.

Dan

Well, I'm glad it's not just me with this problem, but I don't know if Jeff
is getting any closer to fixing this.  Have any other Whack users
downloaded the latest version recently? Anybody care to try it and see if
you have the same problem?

Adrian

    Could it have anything to do with the blitter? or anything else that
    may be peculiar to just our machines?
    
    Dan

I'm at a total loss on this one.  I can't fix it until I can reproduce it.

Jeff,

The 'bug' isn't really that annoying, at least not for me.  I rarely have to
go back to the menus and even more rarely use the scroll bars.

Dan

I don't have a blitter in my machine--it's a 1Mb 520STFM, TOS V1.0.

It sounds like the symptoms are much worse on my system--I find it
completely distracting having the window decoration continuously repainted.
I wish I could help you reproduce it Jeff.

Adrian

    Jeff, I'm having a problem with WHACK...
    
    I used to be able to cut and paste text, just like my VAXstation. I
    can't do that anymore. It's like this:
    
    	- Hold down <ALT>, go mouse-down. 
    
    	- Get dashed rubber box, stretch around text. 
    
    	- Go mouse-up, release <ALT>.
    
    	- Select PASTE TEXT from closer menu.
    
    	- Nothing happens.
    
    Am I doing something wrong? Do I have the wrong version?
    				- hbm

Huh.  Should work.  At least you don't have the window border
repainting problem!  I always paste with ALT-right mouse button.  Try
that.  In the meantime, I'll look at the paste menu item and see if
there's a problem.

Well, apparently the PASTE menu item stopped working somewhere along the
way.  ALT-RIGHT mouse button works, but I'll go find out what went wrong
with PASTE and fix it.  I'll post here when it's ready.

    Re: .99
    
> ALT-RIGHT mouse button works, but I'll go find out what went wrong
> with PASTE and fix it.  I'll post here when it's ready.
    
    Oh! <ALT> rightmouse will do it too? At least there's a workaround...
    				- hbm
    

>    Oh! <ALT> rightmouse will do it too? At least there's a workaround...

Sounds like you want me to write a manual!

    I wouldn't mind having some instructions on WHACK!. Still I can confirm
    that I don't get the repainting problem on a 520 STe (has the blitter
    fitted as standard)
    
    Richard

>    that I don't get the repainting problem on a 520 STe (has the blitter
>    fitted as standard)


I do have the repainting problem. Screen (scrollbars and window) are being
repeatedly repainted. This takes about 2 seconds until all is stable.

System: older 1040STF without blitter, running RAM version of TOS1.4 beta.




Not related to the above (I think) but also sort or repainting:

It look as if the screen gets repainted about once a second. There is a 
flicker which seems to be kind of interference with the internal timing
loop. 


---markus---

In PRNSYS::USER2:[LOMICKAJ.HOBBY.ST], there is a new WHACKPRG.ZOO
containing a new WHACK.PRG.  All the old versions have been deleted.

This version fixes several problems that caused repeated "bomb"
conditions to occur, particularly when exiting, and when shrinking
windows to icons.  These bombs should have happened on all systems, but
I never got them until running with Rainbow TOS, and sometimes only when
running Quick ST V2.0.

I still haven't reproduced, or done anything to correct, the window
border painting problem.

By the way, as usual, the timing numbers default for use at 2400 baud.

For use at 9600 baud, set:

	- Rx chars/interval 192
	- Tx chars/interval 96

After doing this, I was able to transfer files from VAX to ST at 756 bytes/sec.

    After down loading the new whack and using I too started getting the
    window problems to some degree. Then I thougt about the fish. The count
    was 4, I reduced this to 1, repainting went away!.
    
    What ARE those fish good for??
    
    Richard
    

Hmmm.  I wonder if GEM repaints all the borders, instead of just the
part that needs it.  Better yet, I wonder if I'm throwing the wrong
redraw rectangle for the fish.

If those of you that consistently have the window redrw problem would
try again with the fish count set to 0, I'd appreciate knowing if this
makes the problem go away.  (You have to save the global settings after
changing the fish count, and restart Whack for the new count to take effect.)

The fish are simply a decoration.  If you want, you can use the mouse
buttons to harpoon them while waiting for long compilatinos to
complete.

    Jeff,

    The repainting takes place even with fishcount=0!


    ---markus---

Shame about the fish count red herring (ouch!).

I wasn't able to try it as my ST is waiting for a new power supply.  It
blew last week, the second to go in under four months!

Adrian

Re: .108

Adrian,

Do you use a surge supressor on your system?  Power supplies shouldn't
have that many problems unless your house power is bad or getting
interference from an appliance elsewhere on the circuit.

						-Dave

I don't use a suppressor Dave, but I think the fault lies with the ST power
supply(s).  The second one that died was "reconditioned" and looked pretty
old.  I now have a new model which uses higher quality components.  I hope
it lasts longer than three months...

Adrian

Jeff,

Now that my ST is working again, I have downloaded the latest Whack.  As
usual, it comes up with two fish by default.  And I still have the border
repainting.

I noticed for the first time that the repainting is definitely in sync with
the movement of the fish.  I disabled the fish, saved the settings and
restarted Whack.

Things are now definitely better.  The borders on the terminal windows do
not repaint.  I still get the repainting on the form windows though--this
lasts about 5 seconds immediately after they pop up, then disappears.

With the terminal windows steady, at last I can use Whack again!

Adrian

Jeff, another Whacky question: could you add a set up option to disable the
blinking text cursor? After using a non-blinking cursor on my workstation,
I find using any terminal with a blinking cursor very distracting.

Presumably if the text cursor did not blink, this would also stop the side
effect of the mouse cursor flickering.

Adrian

You are in luck - non-blinking cursor is already implemented.

Set the cursor timing values in the timing form (the same form where the
fish are) so that the cursor off time is zero, and it won't blink
anymore.  This is a special case in the code.

The on-time doesn't matter much, but I think you should leave it at 600.
There is some chance that setting the on-time to 0 will cause
performance problems.

The repainting of the set-up form borderss is well understood - and is
caused by the code I use to update the form to the current values of
everything.  The borders will repaint exactly as many times are there
are lines in the form.  I have tried several times to eliminate this
problem, but it's more complicated than it seems at first.

Thanks Jeff.  I've disabled the blinking cursor.  I thought that this would
eliminate the flickering of the mouse pointer, but this still seems to
happen.  Any ideas why?

Adrian

To stop the cursor from flickering, you must go to the internal timing
menu, and set:

	- cursor off time to 0
	- cursor on time to 600
	- desktop fish count to 0

	and confirm with OK

then go to the Global Setup menu and select "save current settings", and
confirm with OK.

Then exit Whack and go back in.

You have to have both 0 fish and 0 cursor off to eliminate the
flicering of the cursor.  This is because on the ST, it is not possible
(short of using multi-frame animation) to interlock drawing against
cursor movement in such a way that you can leave the cursor on while
drawing.  Both the fish and the flashing cursor cause drawing to take
place.

    Jeff, .114 asked about the mouse pointer not the cursor.
    
    The mouse pointer flickers for me when a data transfer is occuring.
    

Sorry I didn't explain this well enough Jeff.  I have disabled the blinking
text cursor by setting the timing to 0.  I have also disabled the fish by
setting the fish count to 0.  However, the mouse pointer still flickers
every half second (or is it every 600 ms, the other timer setting?).

I can live with it, but I thought the flickering was a side-effect of the
fish drawing, and that it would go away if the fish were no longer being
drawn.

Adrian

PS: This is nit-picking.  Whack is a great program.  I'm glad I can use it
    again, even though I can no longer harpoon the fish!

Yes, the mouse cursor will flicker while data transfer (downlaod only)
is in progress, or while output is going on to the screen, but it
SHOULD NOT flicker every half second if you have successfully set the
fish count to 0 and the cursor off time to 0.  Also, it doesn't flicker
during upload.

Are you SURE you saved the current settings and re-entered?  Some
timing parameters, like the fish count, don't take effect unless you
save them and re-start.  Dod you get the save filename right?  Do you
see any fish on the screen?  Is the cursor still blinking?

Yes, I saved the settings and restarted Whack.  There are no fish and the
text cursor is not blinking.  The mouse pointer still continues to flash.

Could this have anything to do with running QuickST? I'm at work now, I'll
try Whack again later without QuickST loaded to see if that makes any
difference.

Adrian

I'm running Quick ST V2.0, and it doesn't seem to affect anything.

I'm even using the UK version of Rainbow TOS.

An interesting experiment would be to see if the blinking moved with the
value set for cursor on.  If so, set it to 10000 and don't worry about
it.

I did as you suggested Jeff.  Everything's fine now!

Many thanks,
Adrian

All new Whack manual.  Rewritten from scratch.  Find out about features
you never knew were there!  Comments and corrections welcome.

PRNSYS::USER2:[LOMICKAJ.HOBBY.ST]WHACK.TXT

	Jeff,

	A possible wish list should be started, maybe for the next version
	of WHACK. If such a list exists, I am sorry to be writing this here,
	and the moderator can move it. If it doesn't though, I would like too
	make one small wish........

	The VT300 series terminal, can, do a print screen function, and, an
	auto print function. I use WHACK via modem from my house, and, because
	I work in Customer Services, I am continually doing things like crash
	dump analysis etc.... So, an Auto print function, would really help	
	me loads. (basically I am just tired of writing down what I see on the
	screen.)

	Wishingly hopefull for the new feature.
	Love WHACK tremendously...
	Hope too keep seeing this kind of development for
	the ATARIST..


	Swaff ;-)

    This is an extract out of the old atarist file regarding printing and
    the use of the printer port like on a VT220, etc.
    
    Hope it helps...
    
    Al

               <<< BOLT::MAY14$DUA1:[NOTES$LIBRARY]OLD_ATARIST.NOTE;2 >>>
                              -< atari ST notes >-
================================================================================
Note 414.33                 Status/Updates - WHACK...                   33 of 66
CAMPER::LOMICKAJ "Jeff Lomicka"                      48 lines  24-SEP-1987 10:54
                       -< Killing fish, printing files >-
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
>    	o Once the number of fish have been increased in the pull down
>    menu parameter field...how do you decrease the parameter.

The first line of the menu is called "increment by", and cycles through
values {1, 10, 100, -1, -10, -100}.  Set this to -1 and then click on
the fish parameter.

In some future version, SETUP dialogs will be substantially improved.

>    	o Will it be possible in the future to create a window/session
>    and issue a an ALT-P or whatever and send the file being typed to
>    a window  - sent to the printer port..? As in a VT 102 with a printer

The following VAX BASIC program will print a file on your attached printer.
Note that Whack will put up a file selector when you run this program.  Select
the file PRN: to use the printer.  There are no local keys to enable
printer controller mode (the mode you want).  This program enables printer
controller mode via escape sequence.  It also works with VT102, VT125, VT220,
etc.  I will consider providing a local switch for this function.

10 print "File to print on aux port:";
20 linput#0, f$
30 open f$ for input as file 1
40 print chr$(27)+"[5i"+chr$(27)+"[6i"
50 on error goto 100
60 while -1%
70     input line# 1, l$
80     print l$;
90 next
100 if err=11 then resume 2000
110 on error goto 0
2000 print chr$(27)+"[4i"
32767 end

>    port option.. Could this be done even when other windows/sessions
>    are being updated..?

Yes and no.  The problem  here is that the printer port is polled by the
operating system, rather than run from a normal interrupt handler.  As a
result, the rest of the computer stalls when something is printing.  If your
printer is faster than your modem, you will get some useful time out of
the other sessions.  In my case, the printer is 30 char/sec, and the modem
is 240, so when I use the above BASIC program I must sit and wait for printing
to complete.

To support the printer while running other sessions I would have to control
the printer port myself,  replacing the operating system poll with my own
inside Whack.  So far, this has been a fairly low priority item on my list.
    

In your case, the best thing to do right now is use the CAPTURE
functino to capture the session to a file.  You can then look in the
file later. (It was broken in some versions, but I know it works now.)

I don't think a whole lot of auto-print mode, preferring printer
controller mode instead, but I see whoe it would help in your case.

The other thing you can do is use the ALT-LEFT-MOUSE to capture the
portion of screen you want, and ALT-RIGHT-MOUSE to paste it into another
sessin that's in a text editor.

Granted, these are all just work-arounds.  There is no formal wish list,
but there is a good changes I will be working on Whack soon, so I'll try
to keep all this in mind.

    This question is for Jeff or anyone else really. I'm thinking
    about switching over to the Mac after 5 years with the ST...and
    my question is...does a WHACK like multi-session terminal emulator
    exist for the Apple Mac..?
    
    						Thanks
    						-mike-

Don't they have a cartridge you can stick in the side of the MAC to run
ST software?  Oh, I'm sorry, that's the other way around :-)

Seriously, you can find UW (Unix Windows protocol) implementations for
the MAC, and I have crude but working host end UW implementation for
VMS.  Problem is that the MAC UW implementations, although
multi-session, are usually pretty poor at emulating VT100's.  I'm not
tuned into MAC or Unix enough to know if there is anything better than
what one of my MAC-using friends has.

Anyone oth there have a full UW protocol spec?  I've been thinking about
doing a UW version of Whack.

    Jeff, after waiting for the "soon to be announced TT.." for what it
    seems like forever, and after visiting Macworld last week, I'm just
    about to throw in the towel on the ST after 5 years. I love WHACK, and
    use it all the time. But, it looks like a switch to the Mac is in
    order.
    
    If you could do a UW version of WHACK...that would be fantastic! To
    have the power multi-session windows on a machine that companies
    actually support, would be great..
    
    Now watch, the day after I buy a new Mac..Atari will finally come out
    with the TT.
    
    							-mike-

>    If you could do a UW version of WHACK...that would be fantastic! To
>    have the power multi-session windows on a machine that companies
>    actually support, would be great.

I don't understand.

DEC supports the VAX, so Whack gives you multi-session windows on a
machine that companies support, and it even uses a supported protocol. 
UW isn't supported by UEG, so a UW version of Whack gives you
multi-session windows on a machine that has support but with an
unsupported (but more common) protocol.  I think that somehow you got the
idea that a UW version of Whack would run on a MAC.  No - A UW version
of Whack lets you use your Atari-ST with a UW host, such as Ultrix (if
you can find the host end.  I don't have it, and it's not in the Ultrix
master index.)

I'm interested in UW because the protocol doesn't have so much switch
session turnaround wait in it, so you would get better performance when
using multiple sessions simultaniously, an area where TD/SMP is awful
(not to mention hard to implement!)

Also, if I provide the UW host end for VMS, I can implement a "NEW
SESSION" that automatically logs you in.  (The DECwindows
pseudo-terminal driver is great!)

    re 2 or 3 back

    If you are going with the Mac then have a look at DEC LanWORKS for
    Macintosh computers. This is a DEC/Apple product that includes a VT3??
    multi session capable terminal emulator (besides DECnet and other fine
    things you do not have with the ST).

    ---markus---


    PS While we're here: has anyone already tested some of the DEC LanWORKS
    stuff on the Spectre?

    
    Jeff,
    
    	1st of all let me say "Thanks" for a GREAT piece of work on your
    	part.  It took me a while to get to know what I was trying to do
    	with it, but it's been VERY much worth any effort I've made.
    
    	I'd also like to say thanks for putting together the 'new' WHACK.
    	TXT that explains those little nuances that have been incorporated
    	into WHACK.  It helped greatly for tieing it all together.  (The
    	'light bulb' clicked on   :^)
    
    	Now, onto a question:
    
    	  Is it "normal", when running multiple windows & STRANSF, for the
    	interactive windows to appear "slow", or should I be "tweaking" the
    	timers for WHACK to suit me?  (I've gone with the defaults - if it
    	ain't broke; don't fix it   :^)
    
    								Rich

    re.129
    
    Sorry my mistake. OK then, let me ask the direct question - would you 
    ever port WHACK to the Mac? Actually couldn't most of the development
    work be done on an ST using one of Dave Small's cartridges?
    
    It seems to me that there could be a need for Mac based multi-session
    terminal emulator which runs over dialup lines.
    
    Just a thought.
    
    							-mike-

>   	  Is it "normal", when running multiple windows & STRANSF, for the
>    	interactive windows to appear "slow", or should I be "tweaking" the
>    	timers for WHACK to suit me?

1.  The defaults are okay for speeds up to 2400 baud.  If you use a
speed over 2400 baud, use the nubers I gave in WHACK.TXT for 19,200 baud
operation.

2.  Yes, it is normal for the interactive windows to appear slow when
downloading from VMS to the ST.  This is controlled by VAX/SSU as it
chooses the quanta of time given to each session.  As it turns out,
VAX/SSU does round robin scheduling of individual QIO's, with a priority
given to character echo.  STRANSF uses 512-byte buffers, so this means
that STRANSF gets to send 512 bytes, then your session sends one line,
then STRANSF gets another 512 bytes, then you get one more line.

If you want your interactive session more responsive, you can recompile
STRANSF.C with the variable "iosizelimit" (line 88) set to something
smaller than 512.  The number "32" comes to mind.  This will mean that
the file transfer will get to send 32 bytes for each I/O done by the
interactive process.  The price you pay for this responsiveness is that
STRANSF will transfer slower, particularly if you run it across a SET
HOST connection. 

I always meant to make STRANSF accept a qualifier "-i" that would set
this buffer size at run-time. 

3.  Thank you for the kind words about Whack/Stransf.  The WHACK.TXT
manual was way overdue.  I'm sorry it took me so long to get around to
it.  I realise the multi-session stuff is rather complication to get
installed and running.  That's one of the reasons I'm looking at UW.

    
    	Jeff,
    
    		I can't help but feel as if I'm missing something
    	on my part... I've set up the DEFAULT for the windows to be 
    	NO WRAP, but they still come up for a new session as WRAP.
    
    	I've SAVED it to my disk, but still no go - am I missing
    	something "obvious"?
    
    							Rich

In somve versions of Whack, the meanings of "WRAP" and "NO WRAP" are
transposed.  I'v fixed it several times, but it's stubborn and keeps
coming back.

In any case, I'll check my latest code and make sure that the WRAP
characteristic is properly saved and restored, and let you know what I
found.

           <<< Note 3.104 by PRNSYS::LOMICKAJ "Jeffrey A. Lomicka" >>>
                            -< New Whack available >-

>For use at 9600 baud, set:
>	- Rx chars/interval 192
>	- Tx chars/interval 96
>After doing this, I was able to transfer files from VAX to ST at 756 bytes/sec.

I set Rx and Tx as suggested above. And the WHACK baud rate to 9600.

I've just begun running the latest version of WHACK (10.0 I believe) on
my ST.  I've also managed to obtain a 9600 baud modem.  WHACK works just
fine at 2400 baud.  However, when I attempt to use it at 9600 baud, I have
problems.  For instance, reading mail will display a mail msg.
on my WHACK screen, but portions of the text will be missing.

If I run STTALK (an ST telecomm. program) at 9600 baud, I have no problems
reading the file, but since it emulates a VT52 (and poorly at that), I'd
much rather use WHACK.

Any ideas why I can't get reliable communication at 9600baud with WHACK?
Anybody out there who regularly uses WHACK at 9600 baud without problems?

	Randy

I regularly use Whack at 19,200 baud with no problems.

- Be sure XON/XOFF is enabled on the modem.

- Be sure XON/XOFF is enabled in Whack.

- Use SSU.

For best performance, set RX chars/interval to 384,and TX chars/interval
to 192.  Also, set the fish count to 0.

There is a new version available on PRNSYS.  Note this one needs
WHACK.RSC as well as WHACK.PRG.   It shouldn't affect your problem, but
the set-up forms are much nicer.

If you still have trouble, send me mail with the complete path from
Atari to VAX.  Show modem tuypes, DECserver types, state of SSU, etc.

Howdy,

I now have a modem hookup and would like to enter the wonderful world of file 
transfers, etc. It sounds to me like WHACK is far and away the best way to do
this. Without file transfer software, however, it is hard to download file 
transfer software. What I am asking is, if I send a blank diskette to some kind
soul, would I be able to have it returned complete with WHACK?

BTW, I am in Colorado Springs, so if anyone from these environs has the software
handy it would probably speed up the transfer. 

If this note is in the wrong place, Mr. Moderator, feel free to move it. I did 
look around and this seemed as good a place as any :^)

Steve Bittrolff		
PIKES::BITTROLFF
DTN 592-5329

    Hi Jeff,
    
    I think I've got a problem with Whack and NEODESK 3.  When you load
    NEODESK 3 and run Whack from it, you lose the Recoverable Trashcan.
    This problem can be continuously reproduced.
    
    Joe

Hmm.  I never tried the recoverable trashcan.  Any hint as to what I
might be doing to lose it?

    Not sure.  I'm going to try some other acc's tonight and I'll let you
    know.  Do you use any accs under Neodesk?
    
    

Oh, you use the ACCESSORY version!

You know the accessory version makes all use of the right mouse button
go away for all other applications?  It turns all right button events
into left button events at interrupt level.  I keep meaning to take out
that feature...

    Hi Jeff,
    
    No, I don't use the ACC version of whack.  I found the problem and
    fixed it.  NEODESK3 suggests that you install ACCs in the AUTO folder. 
    They may ask you to do this as a way of getting around the STs 6 ACC
    limit.  Anyway, if you install them in the root directory the problem
    goes away.
    
    Thanks
    
    Joe  

Sounds like the DA (neotrash?) is written to run as both a .PRG and a .ACC. To
get it to run in \auto you need to rename it so that it has a .PRG extension
instead of a .ACC extension.

	Ray

>    NEODESK3 suggests that you install ACCs in the AUTO folder. 
>    They may ask you to do this as a way of getting around the STs 6 ACC
>    limit.  Anyway, if you install them in the root directory the problem
>    goes away.
>   
    Joe (or anyone), could you expand this remark. I have NEOdesk 3 and
    don't recall mention of increasing the number of accessories; or of
    installing them in the AUTO folder (how is this done? Just by placing
    them in the AUTO folder? Or are they talking about NEOdesk accessories?).

    Regards,

    �Carl

    Carl,
    
    Sorry about the confusion.  I believe NEO3 allows 15 desk accessories. 
    GEM won't boot with more than 6.  Since NEO3 is GEM program the desk
    accesories are loaded into but not GEM.  If you put more than 6 DAs in
    the root directory GEM won't boot, but NEO3 can be coded to look for
    them anywhere.
    
    Joe

I don't think AUTO was where they go.  I'm going to experiment with this
and let you know.

    re: .146
    GEM certainly will boot if you have more than 6 DAs in your root
    directory, however, GEM will NOT load more than 6.

    Joe,

    If that is the case, then that's excellent news. Back to the manual,
    and thanks.

    �Carl
> 

    Hi,
    
    Jerry is right, GEM will boot with more than 6 DAs.  NEO3 will load
    15 DAs while GEM will only load 6.  I've having a different problem
    with the NEO3 trashcan now, when I try to delete to it, I always get
    the message that the trashcan is full.  When I examine the trashcan, I
    always find it empty???
    
    This happens only with Whack.
    
    Joe

    Another beginners question.
    
    When I first used WHACK, I believe that I got full screen access. Now,
    however, no matter how I set it, I seem to get only half of the screen.
    What do I need to set to get the whole screen at once?
    
    Steve

Pick the right font?

On a color tube, pock "Atari" font, size 0.

On Monochrome, pick 7x12.

Do this in "global setup" and do a "save current settings", and then
resteart, or do this is the session setup you can find by pressing the
"closer"icon (upper left corner of window, or in the "desktop" menu as
"><" top window.)

    I'll do that. 
    
    I used the Atari font, but I believe that the size was set to 6.
    
    Steve

    
    I've been using WHACK for a couple of years know. Lately I've been
    using the terminal server MULTISESSION feature.
    But nothing other then frustration was the result.
    
    Reason why I started the terminal server is that I have my own
    Workstation now and thus want to connect to more than one machine. SSU
    does not allow that.
    
    However, back to my frustration: I get stuck on several sessions.
    Unable to get data to the VAX. On the modem I notice TX/RX light
    activity though. Some sort of a ack/nak sort of behaviour.
    
    I use WHACK 10.0
    A DECserver 200 with no break and forward characters set Flow control
    to XON. Anything else interesting?
    
    Please HELP
    
    
    Enjoy,
    	Freek
    

I'll add it to the list.

I've been doing a lot of work on Whack lately, so I might actually look
at the problem. 

Does it hang for ordinary terminal I/O, or only when you use STRANSF?

    
    It hangs on both useages. On terminal I/O as well as on STRANSF.
    For STRANSF to our main VAX I use SSU because I noticed the hangs. 
    SET MULTI ENABLE results in the same characteristic as SET PORT ...
    
    Although I must admit that I am using this feature know and I am able
    to finish this entry. But I've noticed that it does not always hangs in
    the first minute. The forward character ^F is set on this port also
    (previous user or default setting of IS). Havely using ^S and ^Q as
    well as ^O usually fastens the occurence of the hang.
    Fortunatly not all sessions go in hang state. So I'm always able to
    kill/disconnect my still process from another session.
    
    Hope you succeed,
    	Freek
    

Okay, the bug report is that occasionally individual sessions hang (not
the whole program) when using DECserver's set multi enable, and this is
particulary true when a forward character is specified.

What baud rate are you running at?  I will attempt to reproduce the
problem here.

    
    Jeff,
    
    Sorry, for the false impression I gave. The problem did also occur when
    ^F was not defined.
    Furthermore I use 2400 bps. MNP5 whenever I'm lucky enough to hit a
    modem with that functionality as well.
    
    Enjoy,
    	Freek
    
    

The good news is that I can reproduce the problem between Whack and the
DECservers here in my office. The bad news is that it is a strange
problem and that I do not yet understand why it occurs.  I'll work on it.

I think i'am in the same catch-22 situation as some other replies
here, my ST should arive soon.. and when it does I'd like to be
able to use it (amoung other things!) as a terminal emulator
and download some files.. to do this I need an emultor.. but
to get WHACK I need an emulator

While I know there are PD emulators (Uniterm etc) that I could
order, is there some kind soul in the UK (Swindon/Newbury/Reading area
would be even better) to whom I could send a blank floopy (and
a return SAE) and get then to copy on WHACK.PRG (and anything
else that might be 'nice'!)

In hope


Peter Bailey



WHACK (I think) requires SSU to do its stuff, currently we do
not have SSU started up (but I've put in a request).. if
this request should fail could <insert name of kind soul here>
send me a copy of Kermit for the ST also ? 

RE: -.1

You should be able to do it anywhow.

If my memory serves me correctly I got Kermit on 1 of the disks I got together
with my Atari. 

I don't remember if it was on the Language Disk or the specific they supply us
with in Sweden. And I can not check it out either since my Atari is borrowed
out to somebody else for the moment.

Lets hope it was on the Language Disk, for your sake. Otherwise you have to
find somebody in the UK to get a copy from.

/Stefan

    One thing I have noticed with Whack is that when it intercepts the
    escape sequences for a local print function, it brings up a file
    selector.  Uniterm handles the local print function by sending a file
    to your attached printer; is there any way to do this with Whack?
    
    -- Mike

    re .161

    If you have access to a pc connected to the net or a VAXstation with a
    floppy drive you can just copy whatever you need from the various
    sources announced in this conference. A pc formatted disk (80 tracks, 9
    sectors) is fully usable by your ST. The VAXstation can run a programm
    called PCDISK.EXE that makes the floppy in the station Messydos
    compatible...

    ---markus---

If you give "PRN:" as the filename, it will go to your local printer.

It doesn't matter where in the file name this is.  I search the filenaem
string for "PRN:", and if I find it, I use the printer port, otherwise I
write to the file you supply.

I'm currently doing EXTENSIVE work on Whack.  If you would like this
changed, now is the time to speak.  I could, for example, allow you to
set-up so that it always goes to the printer without asking.  (Come to
think of it, I could use that feature myself...)

    Support for the std VT100 video modes (blink/bold/under/reverse) would
    be a nice feature, too.
    
+b

You're in luck.

Support for bold, underline, reverse, and blink (as "dim") is coded and
working, as is support for ANSI color SGRs, and something that
approximates VT240 colors on the VT100 SGRs.  Color works for all fonts.
Bold, underline, and blink only work when you are using the "Atari" font.

I expect to release it here sometime in January.

Jeff,

    One thing I think would be nice to be able to do, is make the terminal
windows more like the DECterm windows in being able to scroll back using
the slider to see stuff which has scrolled off the screen.  Or is that
capability already there, and I'm just not setting it up right?

bill

I was thinking about that this morning, and a few ways of doing it. 
It's not already there, and wont be in the January release, but perhaps
after that.  (Turns out that I always turn off this feature of DECterms,
because of the memory it requires.)

    With regard to getting stuff off the network when you don't have file
    transfer available at home.... If you have any PC's around the office
    linked via PCSA you can format a floppy to 720K and copy the stuff off
    your local VAX to a pc. The disk is readable by the ST. I do this for
    large files to save my phone bill.
    
    Tony I

I'm soliciting ideas for how to best distribute the latest version of
Whack, when it's ready.  Here's the problem:

As release time for the *New Whack* approaches, I set out to write a
manual in PageStream.  I figured I could release the .PS file to this
community, and you can all print it on your nearby PostScript printer.

However, as the manual nears completion, I notice that the .PS file is
going to be about 3.7 MEGABYTES, about 7,200 blocks.  (It's about 70
pages, and includes lots of screen shots as illustrations.)  It takes a
LONG TIME to print.

While for many this will work out just fine, for others it could be a
real obstacle.  So, I'm considering alternate ways of getting the
documentation out.

I figure it would cost me about $3 apiece to have it copied and bound
at a nearby copy shop. (3�/side, plus extra for card stock covers and
binding.)

Also, Whack itself is getting large, and now requires two floppies to
distribute. (one is WHACK.PRG, the resource file, and the login
scripts.  The other is Whack with an embedded MicroEMACS 3.10_J in a
window.), so I could make up a package for aboout $5 that included both
the program and documentation.

If I made up this packet, and found a way to get reimbursed for it, it
would also solve the "chicken and egg" problem for people that have
their ST but no way to download Whack so that they could start to
download all the other good stuff.

Also, Whack is internal use only, so I would insist that it only be
sent to DEC internal addresses.

There are problems with this.  First and foremost, I wouldn't want to
be perceived as offering a service for personal gain through a DEC
notesfile.  Also, many of you are outside the US and would have
difficulty providing any reimbursement that would be useful to me.  (It
costs $25 to cash a foreign check at the banks I use.)  Personally, I
consider DSDD floppy disks as negotiable currency, but then the postage
for reimbursement begins to closely approximate the value of the
contents.

So, current and potential Whack users, any ideas?

    re .171

    Jeff,

    Whack distribution in electronic form (and PS-Docs) will not cause any
    problems for me. I think many of us do already have an older copy of
    whack or uniterm or whatsoever and have also access to a PS-printer.
    Also many of us may have access to a 3100 Station with a floppy drive
    and PCdisk to solve the chicken-and-egg prob.

    Also I think it would cause you much less trouble if you go the online
    route as before. You could offer diskette/paperdocs for those who
    cannot download or print.

    Again I'd prefer online access


    ---markus---

For us in Europe I think it would be better to hcopy the things over the
network and them print the docs our selves and copying the things to discs also
by our selves.

It will be faster and easier.

/Stefan

Of course, I will still have the entire "kit" here on PRNSYS.  I'm sure
I can find the disk space for the manual, particularly if I "zoo" it. 
I just want to do something to offset the flack I know I will get when
I put up a manual that THAT big and THAT slow to print.

It's too bad PageStream is so inefficient with PostScript.  For each
letter in your document, it emits about 10 bytes.  ( c ) 124 P<cr><lf>. 
I've considerd writing a tool that would find all the places where the
number following the letter is the same as the letter's natural width,
and doing some substantial optimizing by gloming all those letters into
one string.  (I could probabally do one better, and compute the proper
widthshow parameter for each word...Hmmm.)

If Digital didn't have me so busy, I'd re-write PageStream from scratch.
It would be fun...

    Has anybody ever got Whack/Stransf to run with set port multi/enable?
    
    One of the places where I work that running but has SSU disabled.
    
    
    thanks
    
    Joe

I'm working on that.  It's not as easy as you might expect.

Right now, I think there are some tight timing considerations with SET
MULTI ENABLE that, when you fail to meet them, causes a DECserver to
behave incorrectly.

Well, I've gotten much closer to getting STRANSF to work through the
DECserver.  There are multiple problems that interact.  (I don't expect
anybody but me and a few other TDSMP implementors to understand this,
but these are the facts as I see them.)

First problem - The DECserver fails to quote XON and XOFF characters as
it should.  TDSMP protocol spec says that a ^S comming from a session
should be encoded as ^TS.  (You are supposed to quote anything that
isn't transparently transmitted through your channel.)  Whack will then
interpret the ^T sequence and pass a ^S to the session.  Instaed, the
DECserver is passing the ^S raw to the channel, and it XOFF's the ST's
TDSMP channel instead of the single session.  This is real bad, and
can't be fixed at the ST end.

The workaround for this is to adjust everything so that you can run
using only TDSMP credit based flow control, and disable all the
XON/XOFF flow control.

On the server:
	Local> SET FLOW DIS

and in Whack, in Communications..., deselect XON/XOFF.

Second problem - Whack was offering abundent credits to the host, and
counting on the serial channel to be flow controlled with XON/XOFF. 
Normally this is okay, since session XON/XOFF is quoted, you get a clear
channel for file transfers.  However, with XON/XOFF disabled, Whack's
input buffers are overflowed.

So, I made the number of credits settable in New Whack, and set it way
back, so that it is smaller than the ST's typeahead buffer.  Note that
you would have to set it to typeaheadbuffer � number_off_sessions for it
to work reliably under multi-session conditions.  I just ran with one
session and set it to 128, out of Whacks 256 byte buffer.  I would also
note that there is a substantial performance penalty for this.

Now, I seem to be able to download from VMS to ST reliably with STRANSF
through the DECserver.  However, although uploads work, at 19,200 baud
they have to restart a lot.  

Third problem - The DECserver offers more credits to the ST than it can
readily accept in it's input buffers, so data overruns occur at the
DECserver.  There's nothing I can do about this, but STARNSF is pretty
good at detecting it when it happens, and restarting with little loss of
time.  I might be able to adjust for this by knowing the DECserver's
real typeahead buffer size, and pre-deducting credits based on what I
know it can really accept, rather than what it does accept.

I haven't tried lower speeds to see if this is a real credit problem, or
just a performance problem at the DECserver end.

The good news is that I have arranged to meet with some DECserver
developers.  They are interested in my portable TDSMP implementation, so
I might be able to get them to fix their existing implementation in return.

I breifly thought that I could use XON/XOFF flow control one way, and
just TDSMP credits the other way, but then I remembered that the ST
cannot enable XON/XOFF separately in each direction.  If you read the
previous note indicating that possiblity, I have since deleted it.

			     The NEW WHACK is HERE!
			     ----------------------

	If you ever want to use your Atari ST as a terminal to a VAX, this
	is THE PROGRAM you want.  This program allows you to keep multiple
	VT220-style emulator windows open simultaniously in separate
	windows, using a single serial line or modem.  You may have seen
	it before, but...

			  This is a MAJOR new release
			  ---------------------------

	- Detailed eighty-four page manual

	- Script language

	- auto-dial and auto-login scripts

	- Auto-login new session scripts

	- user defined shifted function keys

	- Improved screen drawing performance

	- KERMIT file transfers, as well as the faster STRANSF protocol

	- Full COLOR support

	- a built-in MicroEMACS 3.10_J in a separate window.

	- Many bugs fixed

	- Improved desk accessory behavior

Here are the details:

PRNSYS::RELEASED_TOOLS:[WHACK]WHACK.PS
PRNSYS::RELEASED_TOOLS:[WHACK]WHACKPS.ZOO

WHACK.PS is the 3095 block Whack manual.  WHACKPS.ZOO is the same file
compressed with the VMS ZOO utility.  You only need one of these.  If I
run low on space, I will delete the .PS file and leave just the .ZOO file.
The manual is in PostScript and has been formatted for printing two-sided
on an LPS20, however, it can be printed on any PostScript printer.  (I
found some ways to reduce it from it's previous size of over 4 Megabytes
to a mere 1.5 megabytes.)  This manual is also an excellent example of
what Pagestream 2.1 can do if you are paitent with it.  This takes some
time to print.  I recommend that you print it off hours.  However, you
should print it and have it handy when using Whack.  There's some great
information in there.

PRNSYS::RELEASED_TOOLS:[WHACK]LHARC.TTP

This is the questor LHARC V2.01g for Atari ST.  This is the version of
LHARC archiver I used to pack the following two files.

PRNSYS::RELEASED_TOOLS:[WHACK]WHACK.LZH

This archive contains the Whack program, which is also used as the Whack
desk accessory, along with the resource file and other supporting files.
See WHACK.PS for details and installation instructions.  This is what you
need to get started.

PRNSYS::RELEASED_TOOLS:[WHACK]EWHACK.LZH

This archive contains only EWHACK.PRG.  EWHACK is the version of Whack
that includes MicroEMACS.  This is a huge program.  Don't even bother
downloading this one unless you have at least a 1MB system.

I have replaced WHACK.PS and WHACKPS.ZOO with a new version that uses
only TImes, Helvetica, Courier, and Symbol family of fonts, so that it
will be compatible with all PostScript printers.

This involved so substantial relayout, and the manual is now only 80
pages long.

Sorry about the problems with the first version.

    Jeff, I've read the manual, but can't see this mentioned anywhere:
    
    I'd like to disable the autodial feature and the form that allways pops
    up, as I have a dial back system (explained below) and find unless I
    put a value on the form, it clears out the value saved in my modem. 
    
    This is inconvenient, as I used to power on, load whack, hit a/ and it
    would redial my saved number. Now I have to dig the number out and type
    it in manually.
    
    Is there a way to do this?, can you help?.
    
    Richard
    
    The dial back, I ring it, on reply I hit return, and enter a number, it
    then hangs up. The system then initiates a call back to me at the home 
    number I've registered. Thus you can't make it connect to another line
    other than your own.
    
    However, because of this it doesn't recognise lat password, node name
    or node password.

You need a different startup script.  For now, just clear the startup
script (delete the file name in the function keys form, and select
literal, then save setup) and log in manually.

Ideally, what you want to do is change the startup script to send "\",
and then wait some long period of time for whatever message your modem
issues when it answers, and then continue with the autobaud sequence.

I obviously haven't tried this, but if you edit the file WHACKSTA.SCR in
the following way, it might do what you want:

1. - delete everything between:
	!
	        Attempt to determine what we are connected to.
	;
and
	redial:
	    WAIT 5000;
	    GOTO autodial;

inclusive:

2. replace it with:

autodial:
    SEND "\~r";
    WAIT 300000
	"Answer" autobaud;	! Fill in the proper response from modem here;

    OBTAIN 
	CENTER MESSAGE "They never called back!"
	phone "Phone number? ";
    GOTO autodial;

This will make it so that when you start, it sends a "\" command to your
modem, then sits there waiting for your modem to say "Answer", the pick
up again from where the script tries to autobaud the host.

Whack Kermit has a problem where transmitting files that contain the
hex code 0XFF from Atari to VAX will succeed with seemingly unnecessary
retries.  It seems that these code were eaten on the first
transmission, but get through okay on the retransmission.  I'll attempt
to upload a fixed version tonight.

New WHACK.LZH and EWHACK.LZH in PRNSYS::RELEASED_TOOLS:[WHACK] fixes the
KERMIT problem of false retransmissions.

    Jeff, I am running the first release of new-whack, as an accessory,
    it's great as while the terminal is off doing something, you can start
    something locally like 1sd word plus, and switch back an forth.
    
    However, when as an accessory, I find the desktop reluctant to accept a
    double-click to pull down a menu, particularly the <VT EMULATOR> menu.
    
    I eventually get it to work by repeatedly clicking on the leftmost <ABOUT>
    until it produces a menu, and then moving across menu's by
    double-clicks on each one.
    
    I'm running an STE with 4 meg memory.
    
    I did think it was the set up of my system, but after a lot of
    experimenting I conclude it's within Whack.
    
    
    Do you find this, can you help?.
    
    Richard

    Answering my own question, I found last night it wasn't how fast you
    clicked, it was how slow.
    
    To be precise it detects the mouse button RISING in the field. So press
    down, pause, then release, works every time. You can even move into the
    field with it pressed, then release. 
    
    The secret is you must give it time to detect, then change.
    
    I'm using it now, and it works perfectly.
    
    Richard

I was about to say that - you hold the button down longer.  I think the
manual even says this in the "desk accessory" section of chapter 1.

This part of Whack is highly dependent on GEM's willingness to deliver
mouse events to the desk accessory.  Sometimes this takes time.  If you
hold the button down LONG ENOUGH on the menu item, it will appear.  It
should be the same for all items on the menu bar.

(I should make all those menus available from the closer menu.   Hmmm. I
could do that.)

    Some help would be appreciated.
    
    I copied WHACK.LZH over the net, CVTARC'ed it to produce STREAM_LF
    format, copied to disk using PCDISK. I was unable to check the contents
    of the archive with VMS (is there such a thing as LZH.EXE). When I put
    the disk into the ATARI and tried to extract the files, it extracted
    everthing up to WHACK.PRG. With WHACK.PRG it came up with the error
    "bad table". Further investigation revealed that a number of files are
    missing from the archive. The file I copied was
    PRNSYS::RELEASED_TOOLS:[WHACK]WHACK.LZH (207 blocks).
    FWIW, other files copied at the same time have all unpacked
    successfully including EWHACK.LZH. Although I have not got a hard disk,
    I unpack EWHACK using a 2MB RAMDISK. EWHACK.PRG fires up from RAMDISK
    but complains about no WHACK.RSC (back to WHACK).
    
    Norman

    Not the whole answer but maybe some help:
    
    On 
    
    VINO""::moet:[oconnor.paper.personal]
    
    I have LHARC.exe which I do use to check archives.  I also have a copy
    of cvtarc there which might be just what you need.
    
    J

New EWHACK.LZH and WHACK.LZH.

This version fixes two bugs:

1 - Typing into login form immediately after closing comm form would
cause a crash.

2 - When resizing the terminal, new areas would have junk in them.

Niether is very major.

For a limited time, W.ZOO contains both LZH's.  Also, note that the new
LZH's are already STREAM_LF.

Also, thew new EWHACK.PRG is about one-third the size of the old one,
due to my discovery that the build procedure wasn't stripping out the
debugging information.

    re reply 189.
    
    Many thanks for LHARC.EXE, another useful utility.
    
    Norman

    re reply 188.
    
     I went through the process again with the now "OLD" WHACK i.e. CVTARC
    to get STREAM_LF then used PCDISK. They de-arc'ed OK. No idea what went
    wrong the first time. Put it down to experience.
    
    Norman

	Hi all,

	Okay, who is having the same problems I am. I cannot copy the new
	Whack and EWhack files from the network to my home. I log in and 
	initiate my kermit program. I have done this 4 times.... Each time
	I get it down to my system, I run LHARC.PRG and extract the files
	from the archive. Each time I have gotten CRC ERROR on each file in
	the archive. I have tested the archive and get the same message. I
	really need some help. 

	I have a VAXstation 3100 here in my office and have access to the 
	newest release of PCDISK, but, do not have DCFORMAT or IBMFMT. Can
	I get either of these from the net, or should I just go to COMPU-
	SERVE and get them there using XMODEM?

	Any help that can be given would be a god send. I was hoping to 
	have WHACK going a  week  ago, someone out there needs some pic
	files for his son playing CHAOS STRIKES BACK.


	Thanks

	SWAFF -(

Sounds like you need to use 'cvtarc v' or change your kermit settings.

IBMFMT.ARc and PS2FORM.ARC can be copied from
OLDTMR::$1$DUA8:[WALLACE.PUBLIC.ST]

	Ray

This is guarnteed:

RELEASED_TOOLS:[WHACK]LHARC.TTP is a "VAR 510" file.  Download this one
(it is the one used to pack Whack) using Kermit-32  (I don't have
experience with "ckermit").  Tell Kermit "SET FILE TYPE BIN" before
beginning the transfer.

The current version of WHACK.LZH is a STREAM_LF file.  Get
PRNSYS::DUA1:[LOMICKAJ.UTILITIES]CVTARC.EXE and CVTARC V the file into a
VAR 510 format, and transfer with Kermit-32 as above.

The result will work.  Read DUA2:[LOMICKAJ.HOBBY.ST]XFERINTRO.TXT for
details on how to use CVTARC and Kermit.

re: CRC Error when downloaded 

I had this problem at first, after downloading with stransf ewhack.lzh. 
Then I downloaded and used the lharc that's in the whack directory. 
No more problem.  I did not have to do a 2nd download of ewhack.
I attribute the problem to mismatch between the lharc that I was 
using and the one that Jeff is using.

    Okay,
    
    
    	I figured that I would beat the system, run ibmfmt on my diskette,
    bring it to the office, use my VAXstation 3100, and pcdisk, copy the
    information from my remote node to my local node using FTSV, and copy
    the 2 whack files to my local RX drive. 
    
    	So, I did. 
    
    	Guess what?............. I brought the Floppy home, used my lzhprg
    to de-arc it, and BANG....!!!!! ******** CRC ERROR...
    
    
    	Anybodys guess. I copied the files from Jeff's directory using
    FTSV. Made sure I was doing a binary transfere, I even used FTSV for
    copying the info from my remote to my local directory.....
    
    	Am I doing something wrong...... I am using the latest verion of
    LHARC.PRG, V5.1? (not really sure it has .51 and the German B) And I am
    using the latest and greatest verion of PCdisk.
    
    	I really want Whack and Ewhack to work.....
    
    
    	Help
    
    	Swaff -(

Try unpacking W.ZOO on your local VAX using whatever way you usually do
that, and then try transferring the result in the way you usually do that. 

(That assumes you usually do that :-)

New version of WHACK out today.

PRNSYS::RELEASED_TOOLS:[WHACK]WHACK27.LZH contains the files for the ST
end, WHACK.PRG, WHACK.RSC, and new .WHA files.

PRNSYS::RELEASED_TOOLS:[WHACK]WHACK27.PS is the release notes.

New features:
	- Support for multiple serial ports, including Midi.  Great on
	Mega STe or TT.

	- Reorganized menus for easier access to all Whack features.

	- Changed the interpretation of some timing parameters.  Added a
	parameter to control how far a scroll with jump at a time.

	- Some minor bug fixes.  Smaller, faster image because I
	switched from Mark Williams C to Pure C.

Sorry, no Ewhack with this version.  I haven't converted MicroEMACS to
Pure C yet.

    Hi Jeff,
    
    I haven't grabbed this version yet.  But I've been finding a funny bug
    in the version before.  If Whack makes a script request at startup
    which it often does with me, I will often cancel out of the dialog
    asking for script stuff and I most often get but not always immediately
    an "Abort Transfer in Progress" alert box.  Any ideas?
    
    Thanks again for Whack
    Joe

The window took the the mouse-up stroke before it cancelled the script.

I'll look into it.

    
    I`m using the latest version now on a Mega STE with MultiGEM and a
    19" Monitor. This just works great, even with the multitasking
    environment. Connecting to the system from home via Modem and the
    script-language just works out fine. Thanks for a very super program,
    Jeff! This is a hit.
    
    Bernd
    
    (Reading notes from home now...)
    
    7

Does anybody in this readership actually care about "Ewhack"?

If not, I'd like to abandon it.  I could do it, and I will if two or
three people pipe up and say that need it, but I have reasons why
I'd like to put my energy into other things.  (Can you say MacWhack?...
I thought you could.)

    First to answer your question in .204
    I don't since I'm using WHACK 27 and EWACK asks for another version of
    the resource file... And I did not bother to get that over to my ST.
    
    UNtil very recently I've been using V10 to my satisfaction. But with
    the arrival of a new modem with more speed facilities I went for the
    latest version of WHACK. Unfortunatly I noticed that thing like inverse
    video message are not readable anymore.
    Things like the status-line for buffers in TPU as well as in LSE are
    black lines without text. The ^Z exit for mail etc. is a black verb
    without text etc. Anything in the select range is black without text.
    
    The terminal BOLD attribute is now behaving like inverse video, maybe
    this helps in finding the culprit.
    
    Is there anything in the settings that I fouled up with?
    
    What I do is like before: high resolution monitor on a 520-ST with
    1M memory.
    
    Another change in the behaviour of WHACK: 
    	The save of the configuration allways wants to save it initially on
    the A disk. I have a Harddisk and the A: drive is not attached. So
    eventualy TOS comes with a cancel/retry alert but in .ACC mode the ST
    reboots!
    
    Possibly best thing to do here is to save this in the configuration as
    well. Where was I last saved and use that as the default?
    
    
    Enjoy,
    	Freek
    

>    Until very recently I've been using V10 to my satisfaction. But with
>    the arrival of a new modem with more speed facilities I went for the
>    latest version of WHACK.

	Good choice.  The new one is much better.

>    Unfortunatly I noticed that thing like inverse
>    video message are not readable anymore.

This is most likely due to the addition of color support - did you use
WHACKMON.WHA as your default WHACK.WHA file?  I think it defaults to a
color version. In any case, go to the "renditions and colors" menu, and
make sure ANSI color as well as all the colors in the foreground and
background columns are disabled.

>    The terminal BOLD attribute is now behaving like inverse video, maybe
>    this helps in finding the culprit.

What font are you using?  7x12 and 7x7 use inverse video for everything.

>    Is there anything in the settings that I fouled up with?

You can map any attribute to any other in the renditions and colors
screen, perhaps you set something weird there.
    
>    Another change in the behaviour of WHACK: 
>    	The save of the configuration allways wants to save it initially on
>    the A disk. I have a Harddisk and the A: drive is not attached. So
>    eventualy TOS comes with a cancel/retry alert but in .ACC mode the ST
>    reboots!

Weird.  The .ACC does seem to have a weird default, but I've never seen
it go after the A disk.  Are you using an after market file selector?
    
>    Possibly best thing to do here is to save this in the configuration as
>    well. Where was I last saved and use that as the default?

I'll investigate to see what is really going on here.  It's supposed to
save the path name it used to read the file in, and default the file
selector to the same one on the way out.

    
    Here is another one for the wish list for whack.
    
    When exit is selected from the pulldown, can you pop-up an alert box
    with the default not to exit.  I have tried to check memory utilization
    and wound up exiting, ouch.
    
    Thanks
    Joe

    Jeff,
    
    Sorry that it took so long to answer.
    But I've had the opportunity now to set the attributes as you
    suggested.
    Well that solved my major problem. I can use the new whack again. 
    I really like the feature in which, with 7*11 font, I can set my
    terminal to > 24 lines. Like my workstation in the office.
    
    However the 'save configuration' first tries my A disk to look for the
    WHACK.WHA. But what do you mean with an after market file selector?
    I use the standard TOS one. 
    
    About the saving of the settings I'm not that worried, since as soon as
    I've figured out what my defaults will be I hardly have to change them
    any more. So it's more a temporary inconvienience.
    
    Thanks again,
    
    
    Enjoy,
    	Freek
    
    

    
    The new VTX V5.n Char Cell Client is meant for DEC terminals as I
    understood. I thought WHACK tries to emulate one.
    However, in WHACK instead of the usual behaviour of clearing the page
    and then displaying a page it scrolls the page of the top and positions
    the prompt somewhere on line 24. (I use WHACK with /page=32)
    This behaviour does not appear on my /page=51 DECterm.
    The old VTXPAD.EXE (VTX V4.n) still works OK.
    
    I wonder, does VTX$CLIENT_CC.EXE expect different escape sequences in
    order to do the right screen clearing and cursor positioning then WHACK
    provides, ie responses to?
    
    I don't know, whith the AUX I noticed that VTXPAD asks something and
    WHACK responds with information probably about itself.
    VTX$CLIENT_CC comes with "copyright-sign"ESC[7 and no reaction from
    WHACK. I take it here VTX decides its not a DEC terminal and goes for
    scrolling the information like on a hardcopy terminal.
    
    Something for a next release?
    
    Enjoy,
    	Freek
    

There's a bug somewhere - where do I get this new VTX to try it out?

    
    I have a problem with WHACK when I log in via 2400 bps modem, using 
    a script that gets me directly to the root directory of my VMS account.
    When the modem answers I get the "CONNECT 2400" and then nothing more.
    The modem LEDs indicate transfer in both directions until they stop
    blinking. After that I have to do a session reset to get the
    VMS-prompt. I tried out different timing parameters with no success,
    assuming that the data transfer was too fast for the screen update. Did
    I miss something in the manual?
    
    Bernd
    

    ...not particularly connected with Whack (great piece of s/w
    incidentally, but...
    
    	Is VTX compatible with the "Viewdata" standard, such as used by
    Prestel in the UK ?
    
    	The problem is that I use "telebanking" (HOBS) and can use only my
    ST for access. It would be nice to use my uVax to access it.
    
    Jim

    re. 210
    
    VTX 5.1 can be found at IJSAPL::LP_KITS:[VTX051] besides the CDROM
    distriibution of course. Or else the VTX conference is at:
    CASEE::VTX_TECHNICAL
    
    re. 212
    VTX has a Prestel Gateway ASSET which allows a VTX infoservice accessed
    from a public PRESTEL infoservice.
    The other way around, allowing a VAX user to access a Prestel service
    is provided by another asset VDT, which is what Jim is asking for.
    I don't know whether these assets are still available from CLARID::,
    but VDT can be obtained from Rob (IJSAPL::) Stoekenbroek otherwise.
    The VDT is a prestel terminal emulator on VAX/VMS. A modem connection
    or a X.29 session is required for accessing the prestel service.
    
    Enjoy,
    	Freek
    
    

Thanks, I'll check out what they do and see if it's easy to fix.

    Jeff,
    
    I finally pulled your latest WHACK over and kept myself busy today
    writing a script which logs me into my office computer via auto
    callback. Works all fine and thanks for this great version.
    
    Only one thing consistently fails: when booting the Mega ST from floppy
    with WHACK in the AUTO folder WHACK crashes with 2 bombs at the moment
    when it seems ready to run. Anybody else observed this?
    
    J�rgen.

Whack is a GEM program.  You can't put GEM programs in your Auto folder.

You can make Whack a desk accessory, or you can "autostart" it with TOS
1.4's autostart capability.

    I extracted this out of the PC conference...thought you might be
    interested in knowing that there is now a "Whack like" terminal
    emulator now available on the PC.
    
    								-mike-
    
    
================================================================================
Note 921.19           Terminal Emulator which supports SSU              19 of 19
SKIGOD::PFROMER "Ed Pfromer, ESM Engineering"        38 lines  27-JAN-1993 15:31
                      -< time to come out of the closet >-
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
I have been working on just such a PC emulator with td/smp support.  It is 
operational, although it does have some problems.  As stated in previous notes,
I am doing it in my copious spare time.  Its current features include:

- VT52 through VT420 support (all of the common escape codes are complete; 
  the more obscure [i.e. double height lines, et al] are not)
- multisessioning via td/smp
- configurable color settings for renditions (i.e. foreground, background,
  blink, underline, bold)
- MB1 text highlighting and MB2 paste (as in DECterm)
- Windows clipboard (copy/paste) support 
- extendable paging (as in SET TERM /PAGE)
- Windows Help
- vertical scrolling up to 10K lines per session (this limit is arbitrary
  and may be extended)
- selective fonts
- configurable com port (supports COM1 through COM4)
- DEC special char set (version of ISO-Latin1) fonts

Future support will include:

- Kermit, XMODEM, YMODEM transfer support (this is nearly complete)
- ZMODEM support (this'll take a bit of time; if someone can locate a 
  ZMODEM protocol spec for me, I'd be much obliged)
- Windows DDE/OLE 
- Blinking
- Tool bar 
- Windows/NT conversion (this will be easy, as I adhere exclusively to
  the Windows/16 interface)
- ANSI escape sequence support (again, I need to locate this spec)

Many of my friends out here in Colorado are using the product now.  I've
decided to bring it out of the closet for general internal use.

CAVEAT:  The product (I call it WinVT) is not thoroughly tested; it has its
problems (sessions sometimes hang, not all escape sequences are supported,
et al), but I have found it to be useful nonetheless.  And I intend to 
improve on it as time permits.

If you are interested in a copy, please send me (skigod::pfromer) mail.

    I may be the first to discover this...
    
    SSU is incompatible with VMS 6.0, as I discovered when theyu upgraded
    our cluster.  Whack users who are upgrading to VMS 6.0 should check out
    an SSU replacement called "Flip".  Unlike SSU which is installed by
    the sys mgr, "Flip" is an .exe which you place in one of your own
    directories.
    
    Check out the SSU notesfile at
    
    ONTIME::DSA0:[NOTES$LIBRARY]SESSION_SUPPORT_UTILITY.NOTE
    
    Notes 165 and 166 are the relevant notes to read.
    
    							Brian

Yea.  Also the Whack directory on PRNSYS contains a program, TDSMP.EXE,
that can be used instead of FLIP on systems that don't have the FT
driver. (It uses TW/PY, and requires no special privs to run.)

TDMSP.EXE is a great alternative if your system manager doesn't want to
install SSU.  (Also, it can auto-login sessions.)

    re. note 3.0:
    
    Jeff,
    
      Is WHACK still for DEC internal use only?  Me and my wife (who also
    happens to be a DEC employee) are both Atari ST Sysops for GEnie
    Information Services, in the BBS Roundtable.  Could we possibly get a
    release from you to offer this program as PD (or shareware if you'd
    rather) in our Atari ST BBS (and Telecom) file area?  Let us know what
    you think about releasing it or whether there's a reason for still
    keeping it for DEC internal use only. 
    
                          Thanks alot for the program!
    
                           .....Chris Carpenter.....
    
    

ABSOLUTELY NOT!  Whack must not be released outside Digital.

Whack is now a full scale development project in Terminals Engineering
here in MRO1.  I haven't been keeping the Atari version up to date -
but none the less - the upcoming product code for Macintosh and
MSWindows will be based substantially on the Atari Whack code.  Whack
is as Digital's as Digital gets.

I am a GEnie user, but have gone inactive while I wait for the Macintosh
version of Aladdin.  They have promised to send me the disk.

However, I'd like to release the GOOD Backup Utility via GEnie.  I just
haven't gotten around to preparing a proper kit with an on-line version
of the manual.  Perhaps we should talk about that.

    Okay Jeff,
    
    That's what I was wondering.  I won't release it anywhere, for reasons
    you stated in the previous note.  Such a loss to the rest of the Atari
    world that uses DEC computers at work and could benefit from a nice
    terminal program like this.  
    
    I haven't played with GOOD yet, maybe you could give me a pointer to
    the notes number that features it or tell me more about it.
    
                           .....Chris.....
    

    
    BTW Jeff...
    
    I'll check on the newest Macintosh Aladdin for you, and try to see when
    it will be available. :)
    
                             .....Chris.....
    

By the way, there is now a notesfile dedicated to Whack.  We have
renamed it VTstar for now, and it is discussed in PRNSYS::VTSTAR and
PRNSYS::VTSTAR_BUGS.  Every once in a while I think about porting it
back to the ST, which wouldn't be THAT hard, but...Naaaaa...if you want
to run the new code, y'all should just go out and get some used
PowerBooks and run the new VTstar.  You'll swear at it (the Macintosh)
for three months, but after that you'll be hooked.

In addition to Macintosh, I also have Win16, NT/i386, NT/Alpha, and
NT/Mips versions available.

GOOD isn't currently on-line.

    Jeffrey,
    
    Where can I get the latest copy of WHACK/EWHACK + DOCS for an ATARI
    STe.
    
    Thanxs in advance.
    
    Norman

    re. 225
    
    OK, I think I have it:
    
    PRNSYS::RELEASED_TOOLS:[WHACK]*.*  ! are these the latest?
    
    Thanxs, Norman

    re .224
    
    I think there will be hardly any porting involved in compiling Whack on
    the ST. If you use MiNT and the MiNTlibs you'll probably be able to
    compile the OSF sources straight away. BTW Macs are nice, but the OS
    fails to provide safe address space for processes, which IMHO is
    essential to serious multitasking. The only reason for me to consider a
    Mac as my next machine is the availability of Simcity 2K and simearth.
    By the way, this is my last week at Digital. Can I still use Whack at
    home if I leave here?
    
    Cheers,
    
    Erlend.
    

>    I think there will be hardly any porting involved in compiling Whack on
>    the ST. If you use MiNT and the MiNTlibs you'll probably be able to
>    compile the OSF sources straight away. BTW Macs are nice, but the OS 

It is obvious that this person has never written a windowing application
in his life, under any operating system.

>    fails to provide safe address space for processes, which IMHO is
>    essential to serious multitasking. The only reason for me to consider a 

As if the Atari could do that?  I stand by my recommendation that if
you use an Atari today, you will be happy with a Macintosh.

Now, if you use a top-of-the-line every bell-and-whistle Genevafied,
Mintified, do-what pre-emptive multitasking once-was-an Atari now is a
big hack, then what you want is Windows NT, which I run in my office,
and I like very much, thank you.  Just, whatever you do, don't run DOS
and Windows 3.1, which is what the mainstream mass of ignorant computer
users suffer with.  You WILL hate it.  Now, I run NT on a system with a
66Mhz 486, 24MB or RAM, and 1GB of disk space.  I'm glad Digital paid
for it, and not me.

>    Mac as my next machine is the availability of Simcity 2K and simearth.

>    By the way, this is my last week at Digital.

Somehow the juxtaposition of these two statements gives me a perverse
pleasure.

>    Can I still use Whack at
>    home if I leave here?

Can you still use VMS at home if you leave here?  All your DIGITAL
INTERNAL USE ONLY documentation?  Whack is DIGITAL INTERNAL USE ONLY.  I
shouldn't have to interpret that that means for you.

    Jeff,
    
    Apologies if I am a bit slow here. All I want to know is what is the
    latest version of WHACK that I can use on my STe and where can I copy
    it from.
    Still a DIGITAL employee:-)
    
    Cheers, Norman

    re .228
    
    Jeffrey, I did write quite a few windowing applications for both Atari
    and Windows. I admit that I found none of them good enough to release
    to the general public ;-)
    
    With MiNT/MultiTOS, which comes free with all new Falcon 030's, all
    programs can have memory protection set. So this is not something only
    available to users with hacked-up genevafied whatever ST's. And you are
    right, a Mac will probably enjoy using a Mac. And no, I don't think I
    would have a need for a system with windows NT. What I am looking for
    in my next computer is rock-solid day to day reliability. I am still
    not convinced that there is any affordable computer on the market that
    offers this together with an easy to use GUI.
    
    By the way, your reply seems to suggest I got fired or something. I was
    not, I am a student and did some work for Digital. I could have stayed,
    but chose to go work somewhere else.
    As for games, the software to fill my professional needs is available
    for Atari, but the development of new games has seized almost
    completely. The only thing I could use, but which I cannot afford, and
    which is not available (to my knowledge) is SGML based software.
    
    As for using VMS/whack at home. No I don't have any machines running
    VMS at home, and neither do I have Whack. Thanks for explaining the
    policy.
    
    Regards,
    
    Erlend.
    
    P.S. I am back at Digital only for one day, so if you want to respond
    to this message, you can reach me at "[email protected]"