Conference waylay::askenet_v5

    > The DeBeers diamond commercial
    
    It's a Sony release, I have it.
    
    http://www.music.sony.com/Music/Classical/Releases/diamond.htm

It seems to me that classical pieces tend to be much longer and
have more internal variation than typical contemporary music.  
The "trigger phrases" don't come as often, and are spread through 
the piece.  By "trigger phrase" I mean something like the first
four notes of Beethoven's Fifth Symphony. 

Classical pieces are also less likely to be hammered into your
head via repeated airplay.  I remember the rock songs of the '70s 
quite well.  I heard them over, and over, and over, and over. 
The classical pieces that I recognize are on the few classical
CDs that we have, or are on our Fantasia video. 

Also, names such as Symphony No. 40 in G minor, K.550. really
don't stick in my mind. 

Wes

    
    WCRB (Boston) has the same problem as rock stations.  Some
    classical pieces get over-played.  For example, I don't want to hear
    the Mozart flute quartets as much as they play them, or the Mozart
    Hunt quartet.  Sure, they're fine pieces, but just because their
    air-time happens to fit between the end of the news and when its time
    to play the oriental rug commercial again, doesn't mean I should have
    to listen to those particular pieces that often.
    
    Anyway, if you listen to a station like WCRB for several months, you
    will indeed start to recognize more classical pieces.
    
    /Eric

    Another problem with classical is there are no lyrics to identify them
    by.  Since the trigger phrases in popular music usually *are* the
    title, its that much simpler for popular music, and makes it that much
    harder to condition yourself to listen for the needed information.  Its
    extremely difficult to go into a music store and ask for a piece that
    "goes la-lalalala-la".  
    
    And as mentioned, if you have the patience and timing to hear the
    announcer give the name (and they give it out rather close to the piece
    played, rather then asking you to roll back and correlate the name to
    the "second song of a four piece set"), it typically ends up being
    something quite unmemorable.
    
    Given all that, I empathize with the noter in .0.  Quite often I hear a
    piece of music, recognize it as a classical piece, and often comment to
    myself "that why they call it 'classical'", despite the fact I haven't
    a clue what its called, or who did it.
    
    Oh, and if you *do* find out what it is, should you get it by the New
    York Philharmonic, or the Whozit Chamber Orchestra?  :-)
    
    jeb
    

    The reason I know Mozart 40th is because I knew a song which was based
    on that tune.  The song had been my favourite even before I was old
    enough to know the music of Mozart.
    
    - Vikas

    Another example would be Mozart symphonies 24th, 29th and piano
    concertos 17, 23 etc.  I have them on 3 or 4 cassettes and on 3 CDs in
    different combinations but every time I hear it on the radio, I am
    still lost.  At least I can recognize Mozart quite accurately.
    
    I can't have such a bad ear because I still know when I hear Allnis
    Morriset / Cheryl Crow / Maddona's latest assault :-)
    
    - Vikas

    http://www.kids.warnerbros.com/karaoke/cmp/list.htm

I theorize that while the suggestions above all likely have some validity, the
big thing is that people have different types of memories.  Not remembering
melodies is not the same as being "tone deaf".

For example, my wife has a very visual memory.  If we are talking about where we
saw a particular factoid she may remember that it was on the left side of a
newspaper page with a picture below it, for example.  I, on the other hand
remember tastes.  I don't know how.  I can just tell that this tastes a lot like
that one my mother made the time that ...

I am usually better with melodies than she is, but if she sees the music (even
just words written down, not the notes) she can associate a melody better.

That said, I bet that most people can recognize melodies better than they think.
I find it hard to believe that most people remember, say, "Louie, Louie" from
the words.  How about Mason William's "Classical Gas" or the theme from Hawaii
Five-O?  I bet you can remember them (at least for 5-O which has a much more
memorable theme than Classical Gas), if you were into Pop music in the late 60s,
even though there are no words.

I suspect that the single biggest factor in not remembering so-called classical
music is the lack of repetition and social context (i.e. only people in certain
circles go around talking about the BSO's latest CD).

If you want to be able to recognize such music better, I agree with Eric that
listening to WCRB and/or WGBH in the morning and/or WEVO in the afternoon
(assuming you are in the Greater Nashua/Maynard Area) will be the biggest help.

Secondly, knowing a little about how classical music is constructed may help.
For example, many classical forms involve stating a theme (possibly two or
three) and repeating them in variations.  Now I can't pick up some of the more
esoteric variations easily, but if you start looking for a theme (the first 4
notes of Beethoven's 5th Symphony, for example) you find it all over the place
and in all kinds of different instruments and recognizable variants.

My 2 cents...

Burns

It can also be instructive listening to some PDQ Bach (or even Victor Borge)
to see if you can spot familiar tunes in unfamiliar settings, or exaggerated
classical styles.  (For rock, try Spinal Tap.)

I also find that as a budding (read "lousy, but trying") musician, I have
started to recognize the styles of composers such as John Williams,
Andrew Lloyd-Webber, Aaron Copland and others.    Some composers have VERY
distinctive styles - there've been several times when I've heard a new song
on the radio and instantly said "that's a Jim Steinman song!" (most recently
with Celine Dion's hit whose name I have forgotten... - I had to find a
record store to see if I was right.)

I agree with Burns (my fellow Hollis Town Band member) that repetition is
a key to getting the brain to recognize such things.

					Steve

Celine Dion - "It's All Coming Back to Me Now"

    Yes, that's the one.  Some would say that every Steinman song is just
    a variation of "Paradise by the Dashboard Light", and they'd not be
    completely wrong...  But then there's "Total Eclipse of the Heart"...
    
    				Steve

	Yeah, but to me (a lapsed musician), I knew almost immediately that 
"Total Eclipse of the Heart" was a Jim Steinman song. (If you can "hear"
Meatlof singing it - it's a Jim Steinman song. ;-) )


					--Doug

How about Barbra Streisand singing "Left in the Dark Again"?  That was a hoot!

				Steve

	How did I miss that one?

Pure luck, I guess.