Conference waylay::askenet_v5

    Blame Microsoft for specifying the layout of the "Windows 95" keyboard.
    Any standard 101/102 key keyboard should work.
    
    				Steve

    
    	My Celebris 4100 has an RT101 keyboard with a 5" spacebar.
    

    You could post in GIADEV::DECSTATION, but don't expect anything to
    happen.  This is the way the whole industry is going.
    
    				Steve

  Re .0: I don't get it. Win95 works just fine with the older keyboards that
have a wider space bar, so why would Microsoft specify a narrow space bar?

    
    There are extra keys at the bottom of my new keyboard that weren't there
    before - two that looks like flying windows and one that looks like a
    pull down menu.  If it weren't for those, the space bar could be
    longer.
    

    Hence the term "Evil Empire".  
    
    Warm up my X-Wing Fighter, R2!
    

    Re: .5
    
    Right - those are the new Windows 95 keys which MS put on its "natural
    keyboard" and MS has specified the placement of the keys.  The only
    option is to shrink the spacebar.
    
    					Steve

>     <<< Note 1200.7 by QUARK::LIONEL "Free advice is worth every cent" >>>
>    Re: .5
>    Right - those are the new Windows 95 keys which MS put on its "natural
>    keyboard" and MS has specified the placement of the keys.  The only
>    option is to shrink the spacebar.

What &^$&%^$#*(* does Microsoft care about where a key is?
My Mac keyboards have TWO EACH of control, option, and command 
meta-keys flanking the space bar and the space bar and the space bar 
is still 5" wide.

- tom]

Hey, they're Microsoft and they can put the keys wherever they like...

I'm looking at my LK411 keyboard on my VMS workstation, and it has a similarly
small spacebar. with redundant ALT and Compose keys on each side...

				Steve

    Re .8
    
    > My Mac keyboards...
    
    Your problem is that you're not a team player.  You're used to having a
    computer that is well designed, elegantly easy to configure and use,
    and reliable.  That's not part of the plan that Microsquash has for
    you.
    
    -dick (owner of four Mac at home, custodian of one at work)

    
    	You had to get him going, didn't you, Tom?
    

>                <<< Note 1200.11 by BUSY::SLAB "As you wish" >>>
>
>    
>    	You had to get him going, didn't you, Tom?

Well, as it happens, I agree with him, but you don't need to get 
me started either.

But to the point of Microsoft "placing" keys - they're a software 
vendor - what are they doing inventing new keys and defining where they
can go on a keyboard?  Yes, Apple invented their own "command" key (aka the 
Apple key, or propeller).  Unix and Emacs geeks have their "alt" and "meta"
keys.  Digital even added "compose."  But the placement of those keys (and
don't forget the prodigal "escape" key!) was at the discretion of
the hardware makers.  So how is it Microsoft's call that the space
bar is three inches wide?

- tom]

    Tom, think of it this way (replace "Borg" with "Microsoft" in the
    following):
    
    	Resistance is futile.  You will be assimilated.  We are Borg.
    
    In essence, this is Microsoft's attitude.  By being the only vendor of
    PeeCee operating system software, they gain the ability to define what
    a PeeCee must do in order to run that software.  Microsoft is also a
    vendor of hardware, including mice and keybords, so they are in the
    position of being able to tell other vendors, "Hey, if you don't want
    to make your keyboards the way we tell you to, that's cool.  We can
    take up the slack in your sales when customers find out that your
    keyboards are crippled with our new software."
    
    Microsoft has also clearly never invested large amounts of money into
    human factors research, as Apple has done.  (Spend money when you can
    suck sheep in without having to do so?  Nah!)  If they had, their
    software would be faster, less bloated with confusing features and
    zillion-row toolbars, and easy to install or remove.  The results from
    Apple's research show in everything that is the Macintosh user
    experience, from the design of the keyboard, with its comfortable space
    bar and paired control, option, and command keys, to the GUI itself and
    the way Mac software vendors design using Apple's Human Interface
    guidelines book.  All Microsoft has been able to do in the 13 years
    since the Mac appeared is produce a poor copy that still, in 1997, is
    neither 32-bit clean nor object-oriented.  (MacOS is both.)

  Thanks for the support on this issue.
  I agree, human factors research is dead in a lot of companies. Every week
I see several cases of poor ergonomics. My interest in this was focused a few
years ago when I read "The Psychology of Everyday Things" (later reissued as,
I think, "The Usability of Everyday Things), by Donald Norman, about 7 years 
ago. (Guess where Donald Norman is now. Apple.) Since then I continually
notice things like doors that you can't tell which side opens or whether to
push or pull, finger-pinching door handles, and other things too numerous to
mention.
  One ray of hope in this keyboard thing is that other vendors don't HAVE to
follow Microsoft's design; they can make a wider space bar while still supplying
all the keys that Microsoft asks for. 

    A story I heard a while back made a case for glove compartments that
    have a shelf for a cup, and room to put the cup on the shelf when the
    door is open.  The teller explained that time after time a new car will
    come out either with no way to hold a cup, or no clearance for a cup to
    sit on it.  
    
    The reason was that when a new engineer graduates and goes to work for
    a car company, they don't put them on the drive train or other delicate
    areas at first.  They start them off easy on things like - you guessed
    it - glove compartments.  
    
    So, things that are considered less than mission critical get relegated
    to the snot-nosed rookies, who learn the hard way at everyone else'
    expense.
    
    Either they don't teach enough human factors engineering in school, or
    companies should learn the importance of small things (right - like
    that will happen!).
    
    jeb