Conference misery::feline_v1

    Female cats DO spray when in heat... ask Nancy DC, who is a breeder in
    this file and goes thru this with her females.  If your friend doesn't
    plan to breed her cat, she should have her spayed as soon as possible.
    
    Another possibility would be a urinary tract infection.  Cats will
    consistently break litterbox if they have one.  It is their way of
    telling you they are sick.
    

Yes, females do spray,  I have a female who wets in various places her 
favorite is my bed (on my new down comforter and feather bed)  she is 
also quite partial to scatter rugs and laundry baskets.  

She is not spayed, she is a female I use in my breeding program.  It is 
definitly not due to illness.  She squats to mark territory and to 
attract males when in heat.  At first it wasn't bad I just had to make 
sure all bedroom doors were shut and that no laundry baskets were left on 
the floor but every once in awhile I'd slip up and she would get into my 
bedroom and wet on the bed sometimes with me in it!!!!
I was furious!! because I had just spent hundreds of dollars with new 
spreads, down comforters and down pillows.  They are very difficult to 
clean.  It has progressively gotten worse and worse.  I have finally 
had to put her in a large pen to prevent this from happening.  I 
hated to do it but I had no choice she would destroy the place.

Once they have started I'm not sure having her spayed will stop this 
problem completly they still might continue to do it.  I have heard that 
sometimes once a male sprays even getting him nuetered might make it 
better but he still might spray.  I heard there is medication for males 
who spray, not sure if there is anything you can give females.

Valerie

    My Holly used to zap the bed.  I found that if I did the following
    things, she didn't do so:  no comforters, no pillows on the bed when
    the bed is unoccupied, no brown blankets or sheets, no flannel sheets. 
    Why this worked, only Holly knows, but it seems likely that it has to
    do with whether the bedding is "attractive" for her purposes.  A heap
    of flannel stuff is probably more appealing that a flat percale sheet.
    
    

    interestingly enough, Karen, this Brown sheets thing worked for me too!
    I can leave pillows & such on the bed, but when Callie was a baby, she 
    pee'd on my bed when I used brown sheets. I've used them again since
    then, but she always tries to dig between the matress & the side of the
    bed when I do. This doesn't go over well w/ us since it's a waterbed.
    She hasn't peed there again, but takes a real interest in those brown
    sheets. We don't use them any more because we don't want to take any
    chances.
    
    Bonnie

let us keep in mind that we are telling our kittens/cats that we want them to
use litter (tan/brown), or dirt (brown/tan/black/a little gray) as a place to
do their business.  It isn't surprising that they will mistake household spots
of the same general color for an appropriate place sometimes.  I simply make
sure that my sheets don't look anything like "their spot".  And I make sure
that they get the litter they want....I learned not to change the litter on
a whim - Tabs used to poop on my waterbed with me in it if she didn't like
the litter.

    I've been having this problem with Onyx and Domino.  I haven't figured
    out which one of them is doing it, however, I suspect it is Onxy.  I
    have a blue w/butterflies, very thin, comforter on my bed and I usually
    use dark blue, light blue or pink sheets.  But, they still seem to be 
    mistaking my bed for their litter box.  Either that or they're just too 
    darned lazy to get up for the box in the middle of the night.  I suspect 
    Onyx is doing much of it because I was in bed with him laying next to me 
    one night when I felt something wet in the general area where Onxy had 
    been laying.
    
    He used to pee on the cat beds and towels I would leave in the bathroom
    while they were quarantined in there.  As they got older I thought this
    had stopped.  They were wild at one time and used to be able to go
    where ever they felt like it.  Someone forgot to tell them that they
    are domestic now and this is unacceptable behavior.
    
    So, last night was the first day cats were not allowed in the bedroom.
    I came to this decision after washing my sheets and comforter on
    Saturday and then having to do it again on Sunday.  I actually got to
    sleep through the night last night.  First time in weeks.
    
    I hate to exclude my adults from the bedroom though but they don't seem 
    to mind right now.  I figured Carrie would be up scratching on the door 
    to get in (keep inb mind she'll scratch even on a door that is standing 
    wide open - sort of a Rum Tum Tugger cat...on the wrong side of every 
    door) but even she didn't seem to care.
    
    Karen, do you think taking the pillows and comforter off the bed will
    help?  I guess I'll have to put the comforter up someplace high or else
    they'll just climb up where I put it and drench it there.
    
    Jan                

    Re: .6
    
    I took the pillows off because Holly used to "dig a hole" and go right
    at the base of the pillows.  I have a bookcase type thing for a
    headboard, so I throw the pillows up there in the morning.
    
    In terms of the comforter, I think that's like sheets -- if the texture
    or color or whatever reminds them of a litterbox, you're out of luck in
    terms of being able to have it on the bed at any time, whether you're
    in the bed or not.
    
    Even with this stuff removed, I had to watch like an eagle to keep
    Holly off the bed for a couple of weeks to get her retrained.  I'd shut
    the bedroom door inthe morning but let her in there at night.  After
    that, it was okay, she has free access to the bedroom now with no
    problems.
    

    Thanks for the info.  I think they're just going to have to stay
    out of the bedroom for a while unless I can come up with some ingenius
    way to make them stop dousing the comforter.  I think it is a
    territorial thing.  The adults used to hang out on the bed at night and
    now the kittens have taken it over.
    
    I have someone coming to look at the kittens tonight.  Perhaps a new
    home with less cats will help the situation.  I guess I'll have to warn
    the potential new owner that there could be a problem.  Hope he's
    willing to work with them instead of not taking one of them.  Less cats
    in the house would certainly help Bailey, Amelia and Carrie's current
    purrsonalities.
    
    Jan

    Yes, female cats DO mark and even spray (there is a difference), and
    you can tell your vet that I've witnessed it so the info s/he gave
    you is wrong.
    
    Having said that, however, I would urge you to check for a urinary
    track infection first.  That is the most common reason for a cat to
    break litterbox training, especially if its a cat that has always been
    good about using the box.  
    
    Other possibilities include, moving the box, switching litters, using
    a catbox liner, bringing in a new cat, moving, new cat in the neighbor-
    hood, box not clean enough for the cat (and some of them are incredibly
    finicky about how clean the box is) or anything else that might have
    upset the cat (carpets got cleaned, you had a visitor etc etc etc)
    
    But the first thing you check, always, is for a urinary track
    infection.
    
    
    re: going on the comforter.  We remove the comforter at night and
    put it in the corner folded.  Most of the time someone will sleep
    on it.  However about once every 2 weeks someone pees on it!
    sigh.
    

    re: medication for spraying
    
    Usually OVABAN is used in neutered males  who are spraying.  It is
    female hormones and it is felt that the presence of those hormones
    will counteract the "male" behavior of spraying.  
    
    If a female is spraying because she's in heat then giving her more
    female hormones isn't going to help.  Also, OVABAN is NOT approved
    for use on cats and should be used as a last resort and under the
    direct supervision of your vet.
    
    Nancy

    There are drugs that can be given to a female cat to discourage heat
    periods, and they may actually reduce spraying.  But, it is documented
    that using these drugs will increase the risk of pyometra in a female
    cat.
    
    Jo

    A friend of mine had a problem with a "bed wetter".  Tuxie-Deluxie had
    had a hard life, Sarah adopted him at the age of 5 - he had been abused
    and had not been nutered.  After a few days at home she took him in for
    the operation.  He had already did his business on the blue satin
    bed coverings.  She assumed that the fixing would put a stop to the
    behavior but it didn't - not for a while.  Finally she called the
    behavior hot line offered through our SPCA and was told to try lheaving
    plastic covering on the bed while she was gone during the day - he
    avoided it and there were no accidents.  Then one day while she was
    getting ready to leave for work she had to scold him for someting and
    he turned around gave her a dirty look - jumped on the bed - with the
    plastic on it - faced her and peeeeeed!  Well, while he was doing the
    deed she walked over to him and got his face right into the puddle that
    formed on the covering.  She didn't yell at him, spank him or anything
    like that - she just put his face in it.  That was 6 years ago and
    there hasn't been an accident since. 
    
    Maybe heavy plastic covering might help.

    Day 2 of forced eviction from the bedroom.  Whew, managed to get through
    2 whole days without having to wash the comforter and sheets.  And,
    actually slept through the night again.  I was awake at 6:30am and did
    hear someone scratching to get in.  Didn't sound like a Carrie scratch,
    sounded more like a kitten.  Onxy was allowed in the bedroom under
    strict supervision while I was decided exactly what time I would be 
    ready to get out of bed.  He did quite well.  I have a couple of pieces
    of plastic (used to be a bag before I cut the sides open) sitting on
    the bed and he spent most of his time laying on top of those.
    
    I closed off the room when I left just to be sure I would come home to
    dry bedding.  One of the side benefits of keeping my bedroom door
    closed is a much cooler bedroom at night.  This is a surprise as I
    figured it would be warmer.
    
    Jan  

    I am going through spraying problems with my neutered male Misha
    now.  It almost seems as if he is angry at me for going away
    to work in the morning.  He nevers sprays when either myself or
    my roommate is home.  I took him to the vet and he put him on
    Diazamine (or something like that).  I was kind of surprised since
    I told him Misha at 15lbs, is not the world's most hyperactive cat,
    and he said that didn't make a difference.  Mish was a little
    wobbly for a few days while he got used to things (actually I felt
    bad, he was kinda funny, ever see a cat go to scratch himself, miss 
    completely and keep scratching thin air?) but he seems to have
    adjusted and we've had no further "incidents."  I grind his pills
    up and mix them in baby food, and he enjoys his special "treats."
    
    He also seems to insist on having the litter changed every day.
    It actually isn't as much extra work as I thought it would be, since
    I don't need to scoop, and he seems pleased with the change.
    
    I resisted putting him on the drugs for a while because I didn't
    want to harm him, but since I'm now renting and don't have a
    basement to keep him in when I'm not home, it was a must.  We
    both seem to be surviving so far....
    
    Mary-Michael

    M-M,
    
    Is Misha the American SH silver tabby that E.T. used to own??
    
    Just curious!
    
    My vet uses a drug called Buspar (Buspirone) for spraying male cats. 
    It is actually a people drug too and she scripts it out.  It doesn't
    have the side affects of Ovaban and reduces anxiety/aggression.
    

    Re: .11
    
    Are these drugs used only on unspayed females or is it
    possible they might work on a spayed female?  Our vet is
    aware of our problem with our smallest cat but has not
    recommended trying any type of medication.
    
    
    Bob

    re: .15
    
    Yes, Misha was E.T.'s before I adopted him.  He joined two of
    his "cousins" from Jane Perkins' cattery, Mips and Belle (whom, I
    might add, are *much* smaller than he is :-).  Misha is the only
    cat I know who can stand on his hind legs and rest his head on
    his front paws while looking out the window! He's just shy of
    about 3 ft when fully stretched out!). 
    
    Mary-Michael

    How is E.T. doing?  Anyone know?
    

    I saw her at the Merrimack show and she looked good.  Didn't really get
    to chat much but she seemed to be in good spirits.
    

    The drugs that are given to female unspayed cats are used to postpone
    heat cycles, and hence curb the spraying that can be associated with
    them.  Since a spayed cat isn't spraying due to heat, I am not sure
    ifthis would have any effect.  The one that I have heard of being used 
    is Megestrol Acetate, which I *believe* is the same drug as Ovaban 
    (disclaimer--I don't know this for sure).
    
    Jo

    Gee, I think I finally figured out why Onxy has mistaken my bed for a
    litter box.  It finally came to me as I caught him in the act (luckily
    I had put plastic down on the bed and he was going on the plastic.
    I picked him up as he finished and walked him over to the litter box
    and put him inside.  BOING, it hit me.  I was putting him inside a blue
    covered litterbox...and prior to this, I had a blue uncovered litterbox
    (as a 3rd box, my other 2 are grey and cream) and my comforter is blue
    and my sheets are blue and gee, maybe he is associating the blue with
    where he is supposed to pee.  I don't know why I didn't think of this
    sooner, especially since you guys pointed it out.  I just kept thinking
    about the brown and I knew I didn't have any brown.  I may have to 
    replace the blue box with another grey and cream one to see if it
    helps.  Now that I think about it, all the cat beds he pee'd on back
    in bathroom confinement were blue too.
    
    Jan

    Gee whiz, just after I strain my brain coming up with this incredibly
    creative reasoning for Onyx's need to drench my bed, I am reminded
    that cats don't see color.  What a bummer.  Back to the drawing 
    board.
    
    Jan

    I think they do have some color discrimination.  Not full-fledged, but
    apparently they can see a few colors, and can probably see others as
    distinct shades of grey.  I'm 100% certain Holly can distinguish
    brown :-(
    

>    Gee whiz, just after I strain my brain coming up with this incredibly
>    creative reasoning for Onyx's need to drench my bed, I am reminded
>    that cats don't see color.  What a bummer.  Back to the drawing 
>    board.
    
actually, according to a program I saw recently on PBS, cats DO see color...
although it is suspected they do not differentiate the whole color spectrum,
they probably see shades of green, red, blue, and white (if my memory serves).
and, besides, even if an animal does not differentiate color, predators all
have the visual acuity to differentiate between SHADES of gray/black/white
that far exceeds ours.  Your blue box/comforter/cat bed theory is probably
correct...and because your little ones were not housebred, they aren't as
tuned to texture - feral cats do whereever they must, regardless of texture.

And, finally, housebreaking is best taught by mom.  If mom is so young she
isn't too good at mothering, a kitten may not learn the whole deal about
housebreaking.  Our old siamese, Tabs, was a classic example of poor breeding...
her mother was not very bright and didn't mother her young very well - from
what I understand the people who bred Tabs always had to help raise the
kittens from this queen, but they kept breeding her anyway - for the money -
and Tabs never learned to cover her messes nor was she reliable in keeping
her fanny inside the box when doing her business.  That is the only thing
I don't miss about that cat.  By the time Tabs was exposed to other cats,
she was 6 years old - and that's a little late to retrain such habits.
Your young ones can learn from the older cats they live with now.

    Well, it should be interesting to watch GBOF.  he doesn't know enough
    to cover and he sometimes misses he box.  I actually watched him 
    the other day and he doesn't squat!  He sort of straddles and poops.
    I'm hoping that if he goes to his new home at around 9 weeks old the
    other cats will be able to teach him good litterbox habits.
    

         I hope other cats can teach GBOF, and that GBOF can learn.
    
         Loki and Bigfoot have never attempted to teach Midnight where to
    do her stuff, and she hasn't really learned.  She's better now, either
    going in the box or the newspapers around the box, rather than all over
    the house, but if the newspapers are gone she will do it on the floor
    around the box.  We've learned to live with this situation, but it's
    far from perfect.
    
         She used to just do her poops outside the box, but this morning
    she did her pee outside too.  Grrrr.  Time to scrub/disinfect the
    floor again besides putting down newspapers.
    
         Oh, I saw on my Clorox bottle that it's supposed to be okay for
    litterboxes.  Is it?  Can I use it on my floors (as long as it doesn't
    damage them)?
    
         Thanks.
    
    	 				- Andrea

    Bleach diluted 1:32 is a great disinfectant for litterboxes. But,
    bleach will not disinfect through organic debris, so you must have
    the surface of the box cleaned before you spray the bleach water on it.
    
    Diluted at that rate the bleach shouldn't have a negative effect on
    your floors.
    
    Jo
    

         Thanks, Jo!
    
         I think I will try this with the litterboxes when I change them;
    Midnight seems especially prone to using the papers instead of the
    boxes about halfway through the week, and it could be that the smell (I
    scoop daily and have three boxes for three cats) is too much for her 
    little dainty nose ;-) .
    
         Wish I could afford to change the boxes twice a week, but with
    hubby out of work for 1� years and lotsa debt, this is unfortunately
    something that I can't do.  Believe me, when hubby gets a job, this
    will be the first thing to be changed, but until then I have to make
    due.

    Andrea -
      I bought GBOF a larger box at the cat show this weekend and he isn't
    missing anymore.  He isn't covering either, but its all going in the
    box now.
    

    
    I have 2 female cats, 1 6 months called Chloe and the other is 4 months
    Gizzy...    Gizzy occasionally decides to go to the toilet on my bed or
    chair, I have told her off when caught in the act with no effect.  I
    have tried as a friend suggested putting oil of citranol down where
    she's been to put her off, but this hasn't worked.   I don't understand
    why she's doing this, Chloe has never made a mistake.  The litter tray
    is always kept clean so there is really no excuse!!  It's not that it's
    all the time either seems to be only when the mood catches her.  It is
    annoying though when its your bed or sofa you have to clean.... Any
    suggestions out there as to how I could dissuade her???   

    First off, Gizzy needs a trip to the vet to be sure she doesn't have a
    urinary tract infection. If it's not that, there's a note in here
    somewhere that discusses how some types of bedding seems to say "litter
    box" to certain cats -- I've given up flannel sheets, brown or beige
    sheets, and I never leave the pillow on the bed unless I'm sleeping on
    it.  Doing this fixed a problem I was having with my Holly using the
    bed as a litter box (sigh).
    

    
    This has been happening on & off over a couple of months, during this
    time she has been on anti-biotics for an eye infection & stomach bug,
    so if there was anything there wouldn't this of been cleared up at the
    same time??   She is now in perfect health or so it appears with a huge
    appetite (she's been regularly wormed )..  It's strange because her &
    Chloe are so close & she is does try to copy her all the time & I've
    never had a mistake with Chloe although she was wild when I got her?? 
    
    As for bedding etc, she's been on my duvet, armchair & in their cat
    bed & these are all different colours..Pink,Blue,Grey or Cream &
    are of different textures??   
    
    I live in a bedsit flat at the momment so I don't want to restrict them
    both from having free run of the space I've got.    
    
    It's been over a week now since the last wet on the bed, she did try
    last weekend, but I caught her scratching at the duvet so quickly
    scooped her up & into the litter tray successfully.   I wouldn't say
    she was unclean at all as she washes herself frequently and Chloe.  
    
    Are they any other symptoms to this urinary tract infection??
    
    Thanks Lynne..

    >Are they any other symptoms to this urinary tract infection??
    
    About the only other symptom is that they spend lots of time in the box.
    Unfortunatly, cats are real good at not looking ill until they are
    really sick (they never seem to be comming down with something, it just
    seems to come on suddenly). Often the indiscriminate urination is the
    way that they express that they are a bit "under the weather". The best
    thing to do is to get a urine test. They might find bacteria, or blood,
    or they might just find that the cat's normal urine PH is outside the
    "normal" range, causing the urine to form into barbed crystals that are
    *very painful* or the cat to pass. My cat Nikoloas has this problem,
    and while it is easily corrected by changing his diet, the minute he
    gets into someone elses food we have litter box trouble. 
    
    Deb  

    After ruling out organic causes, you may try limiting her access to
    the area she is peeing on.  
    
    Onyx was peeing on my bed almost daily for a while.  I was getting 
    really frustrated with having to wash my bedding every day.  I finally 
    washed the bedding in a combination of detergent and Nature's Miracle, 
    put it all back on the bed and decided to keep the bedroom door closed.  
    I even kept it closed while I was sleeping (with the cats on the outside 
    of the bedroom) because he was so indiscriminate about his peeing that 
    he'd do it right beside me as I slept.
    
    I felt pretty guilty about not allowing all the cats in the bedroom since 
    most of my older cats have been sleeping with me for years.  But, I couldn't
    allow one or two in and leave him out, so, they all got shut out.  After
    a couple of weeks, I decided to give him a trial run and see how he'd
    do.  I left the bedroom door open for a couple of hours one evening
    with no problems.  He passed.  I left it open all day one day.  He
    passed.  We've now graduated to having the bedroom door open all the
    time again and he hasn't shown any signs of resuming the behavior
    (quick, where's some wood I can knock on).                    
    
    I think it was just a matter of breaking the connection to this
    behavior for Onxy.  Once I was able to do this, the problem was
    resolved for us.
    
    Jan
    
    P.S.  Part of my guilt feelings about shutting them out of the room
          was also because of the size of my apartment (very small).  
          Shutting the bedroom door took a major portion of their living
          space away from them as my apt. is only 640 square feet.