Conference misery::feline_v1

    Pink nipples show up at 21 days.  They will also become bigger.  The
    cat will eat more, sleep more, and sometimes they will throw up
    occasionally.
    
    After 21 days, you can take her to your vet to have her abdommen
    palpated.  I just took two of my cats in and the vet taught me how to
    do this myself.  Maybe yours will teach you how to do it.
    
    My cats become super loving and affectionate when they are pregnant
    (with the exception of Mirabel who whines and complains the whole
    time). :^)
    
    I have a couple of litters coming up too, when is Gracie due? Mine are
    due the middle of September and the 24th of September.
    
    Jo

Thanks Jo! Yes, Gracie is REALLY becoming more affectionate!
We can't sit down anymore without her jumping in our laps,
rubbing, purring, and sleeping! 

She's due around the 6th of October, so we'll both be
celebrating about the same time!

By the way, I won't be making it to Ohio this weekend, but
GOOD LUCK! I'm going to try and send my niece to the show,
since she's going to be showing Korats, too! (Need to get
her accustomed to cat shows!)

Thanks again!
Cheryl

    Congrat's Grammy!
    
    :*) Bonnie

    Angel got more affectionate too.
    
    Now Bonnie on the other hand, has been an absolute BI%CH ON WHEELS
    lately.  She's due the 28th.
      N
    

    Well, we took Gracie to the vets on Wednesday evening, and she said she
    felt at LEAST 3 kittens, possibly 4! I am SO excited! Four little
    Korats, meowing their little fur off!
    
    We also got approval for our cattery name -- finally decided on Mowl
    Sima. I went into the Thai notes file, and asked for suggestions, and
    what Mowl Sima means is:
    
    Mowl - cat
    Sima - the original name (back in the 400's) of the Khorat plateau,
    which was part of Siam, which later became Thailand! (Bit of history!)
    
    Will keep you informed on mom-to-be-Gracie, and nervous Granny!
    
    Cheryl, Gracie, Charlie & Shanti

    Congratulations!!   The first litter is SO exciting.  I wish an easy
    labor and healthy kittens for you.
      Nancy DC
    

Cheryl,

Make sure that you let me know when these kittens arrive!!  We may have to talk!
(-:

TC

Well, we've got 3 weeks left, and counting! 

BTW: Since I've never had a pregnant cat before, I'm
having SO much fun! She is SO cute -- that belly is
getting HUGE! I'm sure SHE can't wait for the 3 weeks
to be up either!
;^)

Cheryl

    Halie looks like a basketball with legs or an AMC pacer by the
    time she's ready to deliver.  Doesn't slow her down much tho.
      :^)
    

    Gracie looks like a grey pot belly pig! (She keeps telling me not to
    giggle at her, but she looks SO cute!)
    
    cheryl

    Okay, okay. It's getting down to the last 5 days, and I'M a nervous
    wreck!
    
    Do cats "drop"? The reason I'm asking is cause Gracie's weight has
    shifted. It looks to be more under her belly that before. Is that
    right? Should I be paranoid? She's REALLY lovey-dovey, and purrs and
    won't leave me or my husband alone! It's SOOO cute! Anyhow, since her
    63rd day is this Sunday, is it usual for her to drop (or weight shift)
    5 days before?
    
    Can you tell I'm a first time grandma????
    
    Cheryl, Charlie, Shanti, Gracie and kittens-to-be
    

    Cheryl,
    
    Cats will drop before delivery.  Is she nesting yet?  At about this
    stage I usually start taking the cats temperature every morning and
    evening.  Most cats temps will drop down to about 99 within 24 hours of
    delivery. (notice I said *most*)
    
    My Mirabel had her litter last week.  She had four, three boys and a
    girl.  Unfortunately, she had them while I was at work.  She severed
    the umbilical cord on the girl too close to the skin.  They should
    leave about an inch to an inch and a half of cord when they sever it
    off with their mouths.  The reason is because that way the cord will
    dry up and seal off before bacteria from the mom's mouth can travel up
    the cord and infect the kitten.  The umbilical cord is the gateway to a
    newborn's blood supply so this is very important.  Well, we lost the
    little female the next day.  I suspect septicemia.  Had I been there, I
    would have been able to either stop Mirabel from severing it so close,
    or I could have applied Betadine right then and there.  As it was, when
    we got home and found the babies I did notice the short cord and
    applied Betadine, but the cord was already starting to dry up and the
    Betadine probably couldn't penetrate.  The damage had already been done
    by then.
    
    Be sure and note what day she delivers so that you can figure how many
    days of gestation she went.  My girls tend to have the number of
    gestation days with each litter.  Mirabel was 64 days.  I have another
    girl that always goes 66 days.
    
    If you haven't gotten a nesting box for Gracie yet do so right away. 
    Fill it with some newpapers so she will have something to shred when
    she starts nesting.  When she actually goes into labor you can put in
    some clean towels on top of the shredded newspaper.
    
    Try not to be *too* nervous.  I am nervous with every litter though. 
    One thing that I have done that helps tremendously is to keep a journal
    of  everything that goes on from about the 60th day.  I write down
    everything, eating habits, nesting behavior, discharge, restlessness
    (both mine and the cat's %^}), contractions, how much time between
    contractions, time of birth of eat kitten, placenta, etc.  Everything. 
    Then, when it comes time for your second litter you can look back in
    your journal and see that you were a basket case last time too and
    everything came out okay! ;^D  That has helped me tremendously.
    
    Jo

    Don't be surprized if she's REALLY restless once she goes into labor
    and starts delivering and before the instinct kicks in.  Both Angel
    and Bonnie (at her last delivery) were real pains in the butt!  I
    had to physically restrain them and keep presenting the new kitten
    for them to sniff and lick. 
    
    Bonnie was a real little jack-in-the-box during her last delivery.
    She kept jumping out of the birthing box and running around the
    livingroom.  (I was right there with her)  After the delivery of 
    the first kitten she was fine.  Stayed put and took care of her
    baby.  It was really funny tho for me to be chasing her around
    the living room with this sack hanging about 1/2 inch out of
    her back end.
    (Now don't yell at me Jo.  ;^}
    
    Bonnie got back at me by giving me a good bite during the delivery
    of her first.
    
    BTW - I may be a little too quick to intervene, but if the kittens
    are born in the sack I don't even give the mom a chance to break it.
    I locate the head and rip the sack open *immediately* then let the
    mom take over if she's ready.
    
    Good luck and enjoy.
    Don't forget to call your vet on Saturday to remind them to put
    you on OB/GYN call or whatever they call it when your cat is about
    to deliver kittens.
      Nancy
    

    Now why would I yell at you for this Nancy? :^)  The important thing to
    remember is that the weight of that baby hanging there helps bring down
    the placenta so that it can be delivered too.  Nothing to worry about
    if mom runs around with it still attached. :^)
    
    So, any news on Gracie yet?  Mirabel's kids are a week old today.  And
    I am enjoying hand raising a little orphan Persian kitten for a breeder
    friend today.  We tried introducing the guy to Mirabel, but he prefers
    the instant gratification of a rubber nipple to all the work that goes
    into nursing off mom. Sheesh!  At least he can go 5 hours durinng the
    night.  My breeder friend agreed to take Restie to LA for a show for me
    if I would "babysit" for her. Somehow I think taking Restie to LA would
    have been a bit easier. ;^)  These Persian kittens are so cute though. 
    They are so different from Birman kittens.
    
    Jo

    Well< today is day sixty three< and no kittens yet! (Excuse the < my
    comma is not working!) Anyhow, she's talking alot, and resting a lot.
    Her nipples are pink, but not showing any signs of milk. She REFUSES to
    go in the birthing box! With my luck, she'll try an deliver on top of
    our PC!
    
    Anyhow, I don't want to go to work tomorrow (today is Sunday), for fear
    she may deliver. I hope nothing is wrong! I know, it's too early to
    think that, but this is my first! 
    
    Will keep you informed!
    
    Cheryl
    
    BTW: I talked to the breeder of Gracie's "boyfriend", Jazz. She bred
    Jazz to 2 of her girls -- the one just had kittens 2 weeks ago, and the
    other one is 2 weeks pregnant! I'm on her list to get a boy, and she
    said it's possible that I MIGHT get one from this litter! I'll keep my
    fingers crossed! 

    Cheryl, are you in today?  If you are, try not to worry too much.  The
    odds are that she will have her kittens at 65 days, and that she will
    have them at night.  
    
    If you know how to take her temp, take her temp morning and night for
    these next few days.  If you see her temp drop down to 99, then she
    should have the kittens within 24 hours.  What I usually do is if the
    temp drops at night, I stay home the following morning.  If the temp
    drops in the morning, I will sometimes stay home depending on if there
    are other symptoms of impending labor.  Otherwise I go to work and hope
    that this queen will follow the rules (65 days, have them at night).
    :^) 
    
    Once she starts having them you can usually move her without too much
    argument from her.  She will be too busy trying to figure out what is
    going on with her to worry about where you are putting her.  Don't be
    alarmed if she squats in the litter box and tries to have them there. 
    First time queens sometimes think they are having a really intense
    bowel movement. :^)  I would move the litter pan away if she tries this
    though, for sanitary reasons.  Litter sticks to newborns cause their
    fur is wet. :^)
    
    Try not to worry.  If you are here today check in now...
    
    Jo

    Well, I WAS at work, but now I'm home -- just call me a nervous mother! 
    
    Anyhow, of course she hasn't had them yet. She does, however, look a
    little slimmer -- more belly, though. No milk yet -- she's just laying
    on my shoulder purring loudly!
    
    Yea, I was afraid she might have them in the litter box. She hasn't
    gone, though, for about 20 hours -- changed her litter about 4
    yesterday, and it hasn't been soiled in -- just "played" in! 
    
    Will keep you informed on any strangeness -- but to me EVERYTHING is
    strange!
    
    ALSO, Gracie isn't a "licky" kind of cat, but the past 3 days, every
    time I'm near her, she gives me little "kisses". Is this a "mother"
    kind of thing????
    
    Talk with you soon!
    
    Nervous NEllie

    It is pretty normal for them to become more demonstrative,
    affectionate, needy, however you want to describe it.  Hey, if you have
    the vacation/sick time available I would probably stay home too.  But,
    now you have the problem of possibly having to stay home tomorrow, and
    the next day, etc. :^)  Try taking her temp for me okay?  Use a rectal
    thermometer, if the temp is between 101-102.5 then she is normal for
    now.  If the temp is under 101, between say 99-101, she may be getting
    close.
    
    Also, they usually won't eat the day of delivery so watch for signs of
    changes in eating habits (exceptions to every rule of course, I have
    one cat that munches dry food between kittens!).  She may be nesting,
    seeking out dark small places (in the closet, under cubboards), trying
    to shred your bedspread (another nesting behavior), shred everything
    but the towels and newspapers in her birthing box. :^)
    
    Sometimes you can stimulate the onset of labor my stimulating their
    nipples.  This is especially true if they have milk.  Now would be a
    good time to clean around her nipples and get them ready for babies.  I
    usually put a tiny bit of olive oil on my fingers and rub it on their
    nipples.  This will make her lick her nipples to clean them and toughen
    them up.  If the fur on her belly is very long then you may want to
    trim it away from her nipples to make it easier for the babies to find
    them.  This may not be necessary since Gracie has short hair though.
    
    I will be here all day.  Call me if you get too nervous.  Office number
    408-748-4246.  I am here 8-5 pacific time.
    
    Jo

    re: having kittens at night - if you mean in the wee hours of the
    morning I have yet to experience that one (thank goodness!)  
    Halie's first litter for me was born between 6am - 10 am.  Bonnie's
    between 5am - 7am, Halie's second between 1:00-4:00pm, Angel's early
    evening sometime and Bonnie's last between 7pm - 11pm.  Also, they
    all ate normally the day of delivery.
    
    I think I have a house full of "exceptions".  Wouldn't surprize me
    knowing Scottish folds as I do.  ;^)
    

    I'M A MOM!!! We've got 4 baby Korats! Mom and kittens seem to be fine!
    She delivered sometime between 8:30-11:00 a.m. this morning -- I just
    got home from work (yes, I grabbed some stuff and decided to work from
    home) and low and behold, 4! I don't want to touch them -- she keeps
    covering them up with her head and leg -- but they are SO CUTE! They
    seem to be a little bigger than I expected! So, NOW what do I expect?
    How long before I can clean the "mess" in the birthing bed? She REALLY
    does not want to move right now.
    
    I'm SOOOOO excited!
    
    Cheryl, the new kitty-grandma!
    

    I usually take out the most soiled pieces of bedding and leave the
    rest.  The cat will get upset if you remove all traces of the birth,
    since cats are governed by their sense of smell.  Leave some of the
    mess in until the kittens are three weeks old (by mess I mean whatever
    is on the bottom should have the smell but not the mess).  I rotate
    towels in and out.  I usually have about 3 towels in the box at one
    time, so I have various stages of clean and stuff and can take one out
    and replace it without upsetting the status quo.
    
    You can pick them up!  Please do pick them up.  The early handling will
    help socialize them.  They seem really fragile but they will be fine if
    you pick them up.  I would swab their umbilical cords with betadine to
    be safe.  Also, if you didn't witness the birth, you may want to try
    and see if she retained any placentas.  You may need the vet to tell
    you this.  Call the vet and see what he/she thinks.  Retained placentas
    can lead to uterine infections and possible spaying.
    
    I usually offer my queens a small amount of warmed evaporated milk with
    a tiny bit(just a dab) of Karo syrup in it just after the birth, between 
    kittens, etc.  Helps replace calcium lost during labor (muscles need
    calcium to contract), and the Karo syrup provides quick energy.  Plus
    they like it. :^D
    
    I also weight my kittens daily for the first two weeks of life.  Pick a
    time of day to do it, then do it at that time everyday for accuracy.
    Weigh them now (birth weight) and record it.  You may have to mark them
    with food color to tell them apart (I have to do that cuz all mine are
    born white).  A change in weight is usually your first clue that
    something is wrong.  Kittens will usually gain every day, but some may
    stay the same for a day or so.  If a kitten either loses, or stays the
    same for several days, then something is wrong.  Kittens should at
    least double their birth weight in the first week.
    
    It gets really fun after the second week when their eyes open, and then
    after the third week when their ears open.  Oh, and the first few days
    they may start hissing at you.  If you haven't seen this before you may
    think they are panting or gasping for breath.  But once you get a
    closer look you will see that they are hissing. It is so cute to see a
    newborn with it's eyes still shut hissing at your scent. :^)
    
    Jo  

    Thanks for the info! I talked to the vet and she said that everything
    should be fine. If any behaviors should change, to call her.
    
    Also, I found another one! I've got FIVE kittens! They all seem to be
    fine. They're all nursing, and squeaking! 
    
    Cheryl
    

    Five is very good.  What a good momcat to have five babies all by
    herself.  It is possible that there were only four the first time you
    checked and then she had the other one later.  Cats can go up to 24
    hours between kittens if they become fatigued. (rest between).
    
    Watch for unusual discharge (green or yellow).  You will notice some
    bloody discharge for a day or so.  If it becomes excessive, then call
    the vet.  Mom should clean it away by herself and you may not even
    notice it.  If you start to notice it, then keep a watch to be sure it
    isn't a problem.  Watch for changes in eating patterns.  Right now,
    Gracie will probably not want to leave her kittens to eat.  That is one
    reason why cats eat placentas.  It keeps them nourished for the first
    few days so they don't have to leave.  Move the food and water and
    litter closer to where she is so that she can get to them easily.
    
    When Kaitlin got pyometra the first thing I noticed was lethargy and
    that she felt warm.  This happened on the third day after delivery.
    Takes a few days for enough bacteria to form for it to become a
    problem. Watch her closely the first few days after delivery.
    
    Jo

    Thanks SO much for your suggestions/support/help! I gave her some of
    the evap. milk w/Karo syrup, and she was extremely happy to get that!
    She just got up for a few minutes, left the box, and then went back in.
    She is REALLY taking care of them!
    
    BTW: I saw your kittens pictures in the Cat Fanciers Almanac (just got
    it today). They are adorable!
    
    Thanks again!
    Cheryl
    

    You are welcome.  My cats love the evaporated milk treat!  After all
    that work I feel they deserve a treat. :^)  This will usually not give
    them diarrhea.
    
    Speaking of diarrhea, some females will get diarrhea if they eat all
    the placentas.  You can give her plain yogurt to help with that is she
    does get it.
    
    Thanks for the compliment on Surrey and Satin.  They are adorable in
    real life too. That pick was taken when they were just 4-5 months old
    and they were so cute back then. :^)  I am extremely happy with how
    well the ad came out.  I designed it on DECwrite.  %')  Also, did you
    see Westie and Kyrielle in the black and white shots in the article?
    
    Hope mom and babes are doing well today.
    
    Jo

Yep, saw the black & white photos too!  I hope DEC sends
me out to Calif. so I can hopefully get to see these kitties
in person! (It's possible I'll be out there within the
next 3-4 months!)

Mom's leaving the next and walking around for a bit, then
going back in a feeding. Guess she needs a break from
the kids!

Cheryl

    Gracie sounds like a very relaxed first time mom.  That is great.  Joui
    was frantic with her first litter.  Wouldn't leave them to eat, but
    then carried all five up into the bed with me during the night!  I put
    them back, she brought them back, I put them back, she brought them
    back.  Screaming babies all night.  What a joy!  Finally I threw my
    pillow and blanket on the floor next to her box and slept down there. 
    That seemed to settle it.  The next day, we began work on the birthing
    cage... :')
    
    If you get out here, be sure and let me know you are coming.  We can
    plan some kind of party or something.
    
    Jo

    Jo-
    
    Joui must really love & trust you!  I think that she
    brought them to you was so touching....
    
    Lynne

    Joui is an exceptional cat actually.  She is a one person cat (luckily
    that one person is me :'}) and she has to be with her person.  When she
    is having kittens, she will not have them without me.  She wakes me up
    when it is time, and then she lets me nap between kittens. When
    contractions start again, she wakes me up again.  Unfortunately, (or
    fortunately) Joui always seems to have her babies in the middle of the 
    night.
    
    One really interesting thing is that Joui and I both grieve over the
    loss of Kalliste.  Every morning we have this ritual.  She always wants 
    to go into the stud room, and will stand at the door and paw and cry.  
    I open the door.  She goes running in just like she used to do to see 
    Kalliste, only he isn't there anymore. :'(  Then she just looks up at 
    me and meows.  I pick her up and kiss and tell her he is gone, then I put 
    her down, and she walks slowly out of the stud room and wants to go lay 
    on my pillow.
    
    It isn't because the stud room is empty and no one is there.  I have
    Mush in there and Nepenthe.  But Joui seems to know that they aren't
    Kalliste and that he isn't there.  She used to go visit him every
    morning and they both loved it.  Even when they weren't breeding they
    were still good friends.  This is unusual for whole cats who usually
    can't get along unless the female is in season.  I truly believe that
    she loved him as much as I did and that she misses him too.
    
    God, now I have myself all worked up and crying again.  Geez!  I get so
    emotional when I talk about Kalliste...
    
    Jo

    Jo.. that is not rambling.. this note causes me to imagine in my minds
    eye, an on going "tribute" to  Kalliste from Joui.. kinda like
     us humans would do.. we may "lose" someone we love, but they
    never ever leave our hearts or our minds..
    Take care..
    Kate

    
    I found it a fascinating and heart-warming story.  I enjoyed reading
    it.  
    
    Cats never cease to amaze me.
      Nancy DC
    
    

Well, I 'think' I've figured out how many kittens are males,
and how many are females!! I take a look every night; plus,
I found a book that has an illustration of what each should
look like -- I 'believe' I have 3 females, and 2 males! And
all their eyes were opened by Monday -- not EVEN a week
old! I can just imagine what they say when I pick them up
"Who's that!!! That's not the momma!" This is SO much
fun!

And of course, I have another question -- my vet said
that it is okay to give Gracie her booster shots (I believe
rabies and feline leuk.) while she is nursing -- this way
the kittens will have a little extra immunities. I don't
know -- this doesn't sound right to me. What do you guys 
say?? My gut reaction is "no", but I'd like your opinions!

Cheryl

    Cheryl,
    
    I *would not* give any vaccinations to mom while she is still nursing
    babies.  She can wait until after the kittens are weaned.  
    
    And, when you have the kittens running around your house, don't
    vaccinate any of your cats with any modified live virus vaccines.  The
    modified live virus vaccines cause the cats to shed the virus in their
    urine, etc. and the babies could be exposed before they are ready.  It
    is a good idea to wait until after the babies are vaccinated before
    using any modified live vaccines on anyone in the house.
    
    When I have babies in the house, I play it safe and use only killed
    virus vaccines.  Also, I try to plan ahead and boost everyone before I
    do the breeding, that way it isn't a problem while I have kittens.
    
    One thing that works well for me is to vaccinate on January 1st and
    July 1st.  That way everyone gets boosted at the same time, and I know
    when they will all be due again.  
    
    What advanced babies you have!  Eyes open at less than a week?  Birmans
    are slower to mature and they generally don't open their eyes until
    close to two weeks old.  
    
    Mirabel is raising a red Persian baby with her litter and Ken has been
    calling him Grapdelight since Wednesday night.  When we first put
    Grappie in with Mirabel, the look on his face said "Not the momma!!!".
    :')
    
    Jo

Thanks so much! You confirmed what I was thinking -- I
didn't think it was good to vaccinate Gracie while she was
nursing. I feel MUCH better now!

Yea, I can't believe how fast they're growing! They've
gone in 9 days from 2 oz. to 6 oz. for the runt, to 8 oz.
for the largest one!

Cheryl

    We hit a milestone with our kittens yesterday, they started walking up
    on their legs without dragging their bellies. :')  They are growing
    up!! :'( :')
    
    As far as queen care during nursing, just remember that anything that
    goes into the queen goes into her offspring too.  That goes for food,
    and vaccines and medications.  Just like a pregnant human, you
    shouldn't give them anything without checking with the vet first. 
    Also, she will require a higher caloric content during the nursing
    stage so if you don't have her on a pregnancy food or kitten food, you
    may want to get her on it now.  Her body will send all of it's
    resources to the kittens, depleting her rather than them.  
    
    These Mirabel babies are so big I can't even weigh them anymore.  I
    usually weigh them daily for the first 3 weeks, but I had to stop with
    them a week ago because they are too big for my little gram scale. 
    They are well over 250 grms each.  The little red Persian is a week
    older than them and only weighs about 180 grams.  But he had a rough
    start in life.  He has put on 60 grams in just under a week so it won't
    be long before he catches up with them.
    
    Jo

    Well, I was hoping not to have to put this note in, but I do. Friday,
    when my husband got home, one of the kittens had died. I don't know
    what happened. This was the largest of the 5 kittens. The only thing
    that he physically saw was discoloration around the imbilical cord. The
    vet is doing an autopsy to see what happened. Now I'm paranoid about
    the others. They all seem okay, but are they really.
    
    Even though this kitten was only 10 days old, I was heartbroken. I
    still can't write about this without crying. It was so small, cute, and
    innocent. 
    
    I'm really sorry I'm starting to babble, and I know that breeders go
    through this all the time, but I didn't realize I'd be so emotional.
    
    Gracie is also alot more protective of her kittens. Is this usual? It
    really breaks my heart to have seen her Friday night -- crying,
    looking -- and me crying, and wondering why. Is it my fault? Is it due
    to my inexperience? Could I have prevented it? 
    
    I really didn't want to write this, but I just HAVE to tell someone to
    get this out.
    
    Thanks for listening,
    
    Cheryl
    

    This is not your fault, it just sometimes happens.  There is nothing
    you can do to prevent it either.  10 day old kittens are still neonates 
    and they sometimes don't make it.  We lost one of Mirabel's kittens at 1
    day old and I was crushed.
    
    There may have been some trouble with his development, something that
    wasn't working properly that led to his death.  That is no fault of
    anyone but mother nature. 
    
    It may take Gracie a day or two to settle down about this.  Just bear
    with her.
    
    Jo 
    
    

    I also lost a kitten recently at 4 days old.  I still worry that I
    might have missed something, but I keep remembering how much trouble
    it had at birth.  There must have been something wrong.  Fortunately,
    Bonnie never noticed the difference.
    
    You've been weighing the babies, right?  WHen you said they openned
    their eyes so quickly I wondered if they were getting enough food.
    I've been told that they open their eyes sooner if the food supply
    is smaller - e,g. there are more kittens in the litter.  I don't know
    if that's true.  
    
    Let us know what the vet says.  Its really hard to deal with.  Hang
    in there.
      Nancy DC
    

Well, I took ALL the kittens (and mom) to the vets, and they
all received a clean bill of health. (No noticeable lumps,
heartbeats are regular, weight is very good!)

However, the kitten who died had an abdomen full of puss.
Evidently, the vet said there was still a tiny minute hole
it is belly (imbilical area) that I would have never
noticed. It was infected and getting worse. The betadine
gives them a better chance, but it's not 100%. 

I do, however, feel better than if it was a disease, and
the rest of them could have had it.

The biggest kitten is almost 12 ounces, and the littlest
is between 9 and 10 ounces!

Cheryl

Well, 'runt' of the litter is not doing well. I would
say that she isn't horrible, but she just isn't right.

She sounds hoarse. It sounds like she mewed for a few
hours, and got horse. I had a vet come over Friday night,
but she had no temp, no runny nose, heartbeat regular,
no lumps, okay as far as he could tell.

I looked after her all weekend, and no change, except
she wasn't nursing as much as the rest.

This morning, back at the vets (different vet). Checked
her over -- she's gained 4 ounces in a week (now up to
13 ozs), no temp, no runny nose, heartbeat regular,
throat looks okay, no lumps, okay again!

He did, however, say that she did seem a little on the
frail side (she is the same weight as one of the other
girls, but looks alot smaller). So, I'm now supplementing
her food with KMR.

Has anyone seen/heard of this before? The vet said that
she might have a slight upper respiratory infection, but
it really didn't look like it. The kitten seems okay --
crawing around, curious -- but that voice sounds awful!

Any suggestions? I've had 2 different vets from 2 entirely
different practices see her, and both are saying the
same.

Argh. Not having a good week.

Also, how do I get her to take the milk supplement? I
got the dropper today, and she's not really interested --
mom thinks the milk is great, and keeps pushing baby
out of the way! Anyhow, any suggestions.

Cheryl

    Cheryl,
    
    You may have to resort to tube feeding if the kitten isn't cooperating
    with the supplementation effort.  Send me mail for more info.
    
    Also, is she dehydrated?  You could boost her by giving her some sub-q
    fluids.
    
    How old are they now?  
    
    Hang in there...
    
    Jo

    You could try using a syringe and squirting the KMR into her mouth.
    That's what I did with GBOF when he had his URI and wouldn't eat.
    

Well, tomorrow the kits will be 7-weeks old, and they
are wonderful! They are such hellions! Nothing is safe
around them! I've given them all "names" -- I'm sure that
most of the names won't stay with them, but for now, it's
better than "kitty"!

The boy is 1-1/2 lbs. and is SUCH a sweatheart! I've
named him Murphy.

The next largest girl is just under a pound, and is
a real fiesty thing! She chews on anything she can get
her teeth on -- cages, bowls, litter, mom... I haven't
come up with a name for her yet, except Piss Ant! (P.A.
for short!)

The next girl in line has got legs! LONG legs! And
she jumps the most. I've ended up calling her "Legs".

And last but not least, the one who had the most 
problems with the eyes and voice. Of course, I've
named her Baby.

Mom (Gracie) has been crying a lot lately. She wants in
with the kittens, then she wants out. She cries when
she's with them, she cries when she's not with them!
Don't know what's into her! She still is nursing them,
although they've been eating food for almost 2 weeks,
and drinking water. 

All for now!
Cheryl & family

    I have some news... Joui had her litter by Mush last week and had SIX!!
    I still can't believe it.  She is doing well and so are the kids.  We
    had a close call with one boy when he was just a few days old.  He
    starts dehydrating, but I caught it in time and gave him some sub-q
    fluids and supplemental feedings and he is fine now.  Ever try giving
    sub-q fluids to a 2 day old kitten??  Not easy!  I had to do it with a
    3cc syringe and a tiny needle.  Could only give him about 1.5cc's at a
    time.  
    
    Anyway, that Joui, she never ceases to amaze me. :')  
    
    Jo

Congrats from me and the kits!

Cheryl

	Congratulations, Jo (err, Joui)! :^}  Are you coming up with 
	names yet?

	Sandy

    Just the ones that we talked about.  Right now they aren't developed
    enough to know which kitten should have which name.  They are starting
    to open their eyes already though, so it won't be long.
    
    The Mirabel kittens are now about 8 weeks (I think, will have to
    consult the calendar!).  They are cute as can be.  They will be needing
    names too.  I have nine O kittens to name!  AAAARRRRGGGGHHHH!!!!!
    
    Jo

    9 more "O" names....yikes!!   I bet you can't wait for the new year...
    
    Sandy