Conference misery::feline_v1

    Hello Tom...
    
    The little cat said : "Heeeeeeelp.... I'm lost.. where is my mam ?"
    but U do not understand because U do not speak cat... i do not too...
    so..she goes on the bed and...
    it's really young.. be patient, I'm sure it will be ok..
    
    sorry for my english...
    
    

    Tom-
    
    Confine the kitten to the bathroom, or laundryroom, or
    the kitchen, with a litterbox, a bed (blanket to sleep on)
     & food and water. (do not put the food & water near the 
    litterbox!)  That way, any accidents will be easy to clean
    up.  Wash the articles where she went pee with Natures Miracle
    or any pet urine eradicator and soap to keep her from going
    there again as she will be drawn to the odor.  She is young,
    so she's just a little confused as yet.  When she pees on the
    floor, put a handful of kittylitter on it to soak it up, and
    then put the pee soaked litter into her litterbox.  Then put
    her gently into the litterbox near the batch of pee soaked
    litter, so that she can smell her scent to help her get the
    idea.  She's young, so she needs patience.....you can block her
    in so that she can't get out, but so that her pal the siamese
    can get in to visit with her.  If you use the bathroom, be sure
    to close the toilet lid and do not leave any water in the tub.
    
    Lynne                            
    

    
     Lynne,
    
      Thanks for the advice. Ill try it. I did have the kitten in the 
    
    bathroom for about a full 24 hours w/ the set up you described.
    
    I guess Ill do it again.
    
     tom
    

    She may have a bladder infection.  Have you considered this
    possibility?  If she urinates frequently, squats for long periods of
    time without producing much urine, or urinates indiscriminately, she
    may be trying to tell you that something is wrong.  Usually at such a
    young age, kittens are very good about peeing in the box.  
    
    Jo

    Callie P'd on the bed a couple of times when I first got her. She
    was only a few weeks old. What I did was, I made her smell the pee,
    (I *DIDN'T* rub her nose in it, or anything even close, so don't blast
    me for being mean to a little kitten.) then I brought her to the litter 
    box, and said," You do that here!" and I'd leave her to smell the box.
    
    Like I said, she only did it twice (and it was two days in a row), so
    I guess it worked! Assuming the little one doesn't have a medical
    problem, you should be able to resolve the problem instead of "getting
    rid" of "it". Little babies sometimes need to be told twice (or even
    three times!)
    
    Bonnie

    
     You know, I did consider that possiblity. My Siamese was 6 weeks when
    
    I got him and he didnt have any problems.
    
     A couple days ago ( please dont laugh) the kitten took a dump in the 
    
    box then immeditaly ran up onto the bed and pissed, hitting my
    
    girlfriend all over. Well, perhaps I better rush my kiiten to the
    
    Doctor. It does pee indiscrimately.
    
    tom
    

    You may need two boxes -- some cats think they need a separate box for
    #1 and #2.
    

    Also, momma kitty used to stimulate the kitten to pee
    by licking her, er, private area.  Maybe she just gets
    so excited after pooping, that she runs up on the bed,
    and has to pee when she gets tickled by the comforter
    when she runs/walks across the bed....
    
    Lynne

.8 has a good point.  Mom's job is teaching good manners to her kids, so you
may have to fill in.  I had to do this with baby kittens before and it only
takes once or twice.  All you gotta do is dampen a finger and then place her
in the box and stroke her privates a couple times (just between her legs).
When I did this to my new kitten, Beth, she promptly rewarded me with a good
pee in the box and has never gone anywhere else (thank goodness!!).  I do
think, however, that she may be trying to tell you something is wrong by
peeing elsewhere, so I'd take her off to the vet to be sure.

Mary

    
     Well, "she" is perfectly healthy. I guess Ill just have to wait it
    out. Ill try your suggestions. Perhaps Ill use 2 sandboxes for now.
    I was using two. Had one for both cats.Didnt have a problem untill I
    moved the kittens' box from the original spot it was in when she first
    came to my house. Perhaps I should put it back in the closet until shes
    big enough to search the apartment for it.
    
     tom
    

    Tom-
    
    You don't want her to have to "search".  Leave the litterbox
    in the same place.  I had to leave the litterbox for my two
    in the den for months when they were kittens because they were
    too small to climb the basement stairs. (That's where the other
    two adults had their litterbox, BTW) Luckily, they learned from
    the other two that a litterbox was down there, so they naturally
    gravitated down to the litterboxes in the basement.
    You want to leave her litterbox in the same place until she has
    fully established good litterbox habits.  It was 4 months before
    I was sure my two would use the basement litterboxes religiously,
    and I could remove the one in the den.  When she's say, 3-4 months
    old, move the litterbox to where you intend to keep it permanently,
    and show it to her!!!  Is your other cats litterbox accessable to
    her?  She might learn from him like mine did.
                    
    Good luck!
    
    Lynne

    When Dundee was about 10 weeks old we had the problem of him using
    the box for poop but peeing right in front of the box!  It was 
    obvious he knew where the box was, but  wasn't using it.  I was
    quite puzzled.  THe vet asst suggested that with the addition
    of cat #4 we probably needed to add box #2.  That cured the problem
    
    I can say from personal experience that disciplining a cat for in-
    appropriate elimination is usually ineffective and can actually
    operate in the wrong direction.   For example, if you stick the
    kitten's nose in it and yell at it, then take it to the box the
    kitten will come to associate the punishment with the box!  You'll
    be training the cat to NOT use the box.  
    
    In general I've found that ignoring the undesireable behavior and
    rewarding the desireable behavior is much more effective.
    
    I also agree with locking the kitten up with a box when you aren't
    around to supervise.
    
    6 weeks old is pretty young to be away from mom. 
      Nancy 

    
     Well, when Im there to watch her everything is okay. It seems like I
    
    have the nack at figuring out when the little girl needs to use her
    
    box. I'll see her wondering around aimlessly or move her paw in the 
    
    "move the litter way". Actually, things have gotten better. I dont let
    
    her in the bedroom at night, or up on the bed. And I have two boxes
    
    in the house now.
    
    
       tom
    

     
     The little cat is at it again!!! This time she shits on clothes that
    are in the closet or in the shower floor. She pissed on the bed for
    the 10th time. Shes the runt of the litter, maybe retarded Bigtime!!
    Anyone want a kitty.
     
     Ive tried many things so far. This cat needs to be outside, but I 
    wanted her to be inside because of my living arrangements. 
    Thanks for all of the advice, I tried it all. If someone has any 
    additional clues please give them to me.
    
    Tc
    
    

    Hi,
    
    Well, I'll give this problem a shot....or rather, should I say, I will
    give you a resource you might try checking out.  I was told that Tufts
    New England Veterninary Medical Center in Grafton has a Department of
    Behavior.  You might want to call them and see if they can't give you
    some expert advice on this issue.  
    
    I, myself, have never contacted them, so don't know if the Department
    of Behavior would consider this their forte....still, at this point
    anything is worth a try.  I'd be pulling my hair out at this point!  I
    LOVE my animals, but even I have limits!
    
    Good luck.
    
    Nancy

    
    
     I live near San Francisco, California.
    
     (node:WLDWST= wild west)
    
     Thanks anyhow.
    
     Tom
    

    Are you near Los Altos, Tom?  I take my cats to Dr. Brent Walker at
    the Altos Animal Hospital.  He's very good.  Mine go there even though
    its a 20-25 minute drive from where I live.

    By the way, a couple of years ago Holly had this problem.  As a
    temporary measure, I didn't leave her in the bedroom when I wasn't
    there.  Also, there's a place (mail order) called The Country Store
    that sells mattress pads with covers that fluid won't go thru;
    I can dig out the address if you want it.
    
    I eventually found that a couple of types of sheets on the bed
    triggered this problem:  anything flannel or anything beige or brown is
    a no-no.  Since I've avoided those types of sheets the problem
    disappeared.  Also, the pillows have to be removed from the bed when
    you're not there (I put them up on the headboard).  Cats....
    
    By avoiding the sheets, rewmoving the pillows, keeping her shut out for
    a couple of weeks until she "forgot" her habit, things worked out.
    

you actually have two problems:

	1) to eradicate the smell to very sharp senses of a cat...that may
	   require treatment for clothing,etc. with an enzyme product.

	2) retraining the cat.  This requires limiting the cat's wanderings
	   away from the cat box.  This means you need a cage big enough
	   to hold the kitten, her food and water, her bed, and her cat
	   box.  Unless you are holding her, or playing with her and very
	   attentive, she stays in the cage.  A few weeks of training in
	   this manner will re-train her to use her box.  Of course, she
   	   may not like the box filler, and then you need to try another
	   brand...but, if restrained in a cage with the box, and she
	   goes right next to the box, you KNOW she is protesting the box
	   filler...

If you are handy with wood, screeinging and nails, you can put together a cage
for restraint at very low cost and a few hours effort, otherwise, it can cost
you somewhat more than $100.00 to buy a tokyo cage.

I would also keep her out of the room that she uses - for at least a month
or more.

as the runt, she may have been ignored by her mother and may not have good
box training, if so, the restraint method will generally do the trick.

    Tom:
    
    How close are you to S.F.?  I have a great Vet in the city who can make
    recommendations to animal behavorists(sp) - as a matter of fact, he had
    a problem with the latest family addition.
    
    Giudi

    
    thanks all for your replies. Yesturday the kitten was crying to get
    into the bathroom and I knew what would come of it. So I placed her
    in the proper location and then 5 min later she was meowing again.
     I shall try tufts first, then others.
    
     I live in Cupertino,Ca. I presently work at the UCF site.
    
      tom
    

    Just thought I'd mention this, but since the cat is doing S**t as well
    it may not be a problem.  I had a cat that was having this same
    problem and was peeing in the kitchen next to his food bowls.  I
    thought that he was having a behavoiral problem as well and the vets
    did mention that possibly giving some type of medication to cure the
    behavioral problem.  But, it turned out that he had Diabetes and the 
    vet just said that he couldn't make it to the litter box.  Another
    possible cause for peeing outside of the box is a UTI infection.  I'd
    do what the others suggested and limit her mobility and keep her close
    to the box.  But, I'd also take her to the vet and have a urine sample
    checked to see if she has UTI or any other type of problem.
    
    Just a thought....
    Sarah

    Tom,  
    
    If you are located in Cupertino, UC Davis is closer to you than Tufts. 
    UC Davis has a vet school and may have a behaviorist.
    
    Jo

>    If you are located in Cupertino, UC Davis is closer to you than Tufts. 
>    UC Davis has a vet school and may have a behaviorist.
    
FYI:  Los Altos Animal Hospital is very closely coupled with UC DAVIS vet
      school and is the silicone valley's contact for experimental meds, etc.
      I used them when a dog I used to live with had bone cancer.  Excellent
      resource on all issues concerning care and feeding of pet animals.