Conference misery::feline_v1

	Borax works on cockroaches - it works by bunging up their breath-holes.

	From what I remember - it was 8 years ago - it is safe with cats, but
	noters who have come across this more recently aught to be able to help.

	What about asking your vet - this must be quite a common question.

	Heather

    I strongly recommend that you let your landlady call in a proffesional
    exterminater to get rid of all cockroaches.   They are
    gross and if two are left behind...you can have 1000 within months.
    The exterminalter will spray...but probably will leave a powder in walls,
    under refrigerator...etc.
    
    Helpful hint....normally cockroaches stay close to water...so your
    bathroom and kitchen are probably the only two rooms that will have
    a problem.   Keep the lights on....ALL NIGHT LONG...they only come
    out when it's dark.
    
    As far as your animals...I suggest that you take them out of your
    house when the exterminator is there....or atleast lock them
    in one of your bedrooms.  You might want to check with your vet
    first.
    
    Can you tell...I have had the problem before????  It happened about
    10 years ago when I lived in an apartment.  I hated those little
    buggers...and ended up throwing away all the food and spices
    in my pantry.  I know they can't get in canned goods...but just
    the thought of them crawling on them...grossed me out!!
    
    Good luck......Sandy

       Problem with cockroaches in apartments is that if ONE apartment in
    the entire complex has them, then ALL apartments have the potential of
    getting them. 
    
       In the southern U.S. they sell a product in most grocery stores that
    is 99% compressed Boric acid. Boric acid is somewhat addictive when it
    comes to cockroaches, but it's also fatal to them. In the south, there
    is almost nothing that can be done to totally eliminate the devils...in
    fact, when I was in Mississippi I saw my first "waterbug", which is
    nothing but a cockroach the size of an average mouse. Boric acid would
    get'em though... The stuff came in a pill form and yuo simply dropped a
    few behing your appliances and under the cabinets etc... With the high
    humidity down in the deep south during the summer, the environment was
    great for them. 
    
       Contrary to what many folks believe, cockroaches can and will infest
    an area that is impeccibly clean...if there is access to some sort of
    food supply and enough moisture. unsanitary conditions certainly
    AGGRAVATE the problem, but this is not the sole reaso you have them...
    
      JM

	About the lights..........turn them off, get a squatter, turn them
	back on, and sqish them........gets loads more than roach motels!

	Is Borax the powdered form of Boric acid?  This did help.

	I ended up with all my plates, food, and cutlery in the fridge, it was
	the only place I could guarantee that they couldn't get to. This was
	in an apartment on the 20th floor in Silver Spring, Maryland.

	I had never seen a cockroach before that, and I hope I never see one 
	again!

	Good luck ,

	Heather

    
    
    I agree with .3, try the boric acid.  I was born and raised in coastal
    Texas where roaches are endemic to everyone no matter how clean you
    keep your house.  You shed enough hair and skin cells for them to live
    on! I find them revolting in the extreme and the extra large variety
    are even immune to being hit with a shoe!  Even the cats were afraid of
    them.
    
    I have been really spoiled since moving to the UK.  The only kind of
    "bug" I have had in my house is the occasional spider and wood lice (pill
    bugs to those of us from the south US). The standing joke here is that
    the only places in the UK that have roaches are the hospitals!
    
    Good Luck
    
    LaDonna
    

    
    
    
    
    			***YUCKY!!***

    Ladonna,
    
    Re:
    
   >>The standing joke here is that
   >>the only places in the UK that have roaches are the hospitals!
    
    You forgot the food factories. They all have some real monster ones.
    
    We used to chase them with forklift trucks!
    
    :-)
    
    Geoff

    
    	When I went to college in Florida, they told us during 
    	orientation that if you're a guy, spray the Palmetto
    	bugs with shaving cream, girls, use hairspray...Yuck!
    	I had one that was in a trash can in the bathroom, and
    	after spraying it with every aerosol I had, (it was still
    	trying to climb out, making the Loudest Scrabbling Noises)
    	until it finally died, letting out a little Shreik when it
    	did! (I swear it's true!!!) Then another time I was walking
    	barefoot, and I put my foot down about 2 ft from one, think-
    	ing that of course it would just run away, but it Went After
    	My Foot!!!! ARGH!!!! ....yeah, those were the days.... :P
    

	re: Boric Acid

	Is this harmful to cats and humans?  I suspect it is and if so, 
	there are only a limited number of places that we could put it.  
	But if not, I can think of a number of other places I would 
	place it.

	Karen

      
        Borax: Na2 B4 O7....a white, crystiline salt, used in the
    manufature of glass, soaps, antiseptics..
    
        Boric Acid: H3 BO3....a white crystiline compound with the
    properties of a WEAK acid, used as a mild antiseptic and in the
    manufacture of enamels, cement..
    
    
        A liquid solution of Boric Acid is commonly used as an eyewash... I
    do NOT think that it would be harmful to a cat, and I doubt that a cat
    would have any attraction for it... I've never heard of using Borax for
    roaches, but I guess it might work.. I think they acutally manufature
    Boric Acid form the basic Borax. Borax is mined in the desert in the
    Western U.S...it's a naturally occuring compound.
    
    
       Actually, my cat used to catch those monster roaches and bring 'em
    home when I was in Mississippi...I guess she wasn't too bright and
    thought they were hard-shelled mice...
    
      JM

    You should check with your vet before using this, but I have used Borax
    on my carpets to control fleas with no adverse affects.  Also, boric
    acid is used as an eye wash for people and for cats, so it is probably
    safe.  But, if you aren't sure, don't take my word for it, ask your
    vet.
    
    Jo

    Optometrist told me 1 grain of Boric Acid in the eye can make 
    you go blind.  That is why they don't recommend it any more.
    He says it's an old time remedy that has caused a lot of harm.
    
    Let the landlord/lady pay to have an exterminator come in and spray
    and take your cats out for a few hours. They know what compound to
    use when people have animals. This way you won't have to fool round
    WAITING for something to work and hoping it does.
    
    Barbara

>    Let the landlord/lady pay to have an exterminator come in and spray
>    and take your cats out for a few hours. They know what compound to
>    use when people have animals. This way you won't have to fool round
>    WAITING for something to work and hoping it does.
    
depending on the quality of the service, this is true...however, if the
landlady pays some college kids to treat for bugs, you may have very
sick cats, and regardless of the quality of the service, the bugs will, of 
course, return when the pesticide wears off.

The borax has never affected my cats, and more important, the cats DON'T
LIKE the taste or smell of it, so they don't TRY and mess with it.  If you have
roaches once, you have roaches...forever....unless you establish a program
of CONTROL.  A one-time shot won't get rid of them.  Spreading the borax under
the cabinets and behind appliances will do a great deal to rid your home of
these pests.

    I didn't keep track of which notes said which, so bear with
    me.
    
    So, first about cockroaches:
    First of all, cockroaches will initially avoid the light,
    but if they are in your house for any amount of time, there
    will be tons of them and they will get bold.  I housesat in a
    Boston apartment that had roaches climbing on the fluorescent 
    lights.  If it makes you feel better to not see them scurry
    because the light comes on quickly, then leave the lights on,
    but don't be naive about that preventing them from making their
    presence known.  Boric acid does work, but it's messy and you 
    have to keep applying it.  If your landowner is willing, have 
    them exterminate the whole buillding.
    
    About extermination:
    The biological functions of bugs and mammals cannot be compared.
    Your cat should have no problem, although you probably want to 
    remove him from the area being treated (as you would small children)
    until the exterminator is done and the treatment is dried.  A poison 
    that is sprayed on, poses no danger to your cat once it is dried.  The 
    cat would have to lick a whole wall covered with the stuff to get 
    sick enough to warrant medical attention.  A bug just has to 
    crawl over it and it dies.  Your cat would have to eat alot of bugs
    that had ingested or crawled over alot of poison before it got sick
    from that, too.
    
    We don't have roaches in our house but we have ants.  I didn't want
    to put out anything until I knew if it was safe.  I called Johnson
    Wax (the company that makes Black Flag) and they were very nice.  
    Ben would have to eat the poison in three traps (this is assuming he
    can pry them open to get at the stuff) before he got sick.  They 
    suggested putting double stick tape on the bottom so that Ben would
    not be tempted to play 'hockey' with any traps he has access to.
    The ants are gone, Ben is healthy as ever.  
    
    dm
    

    A little more information on the situation.  An exterminator was
    in just before I moved in, so about three weeks ago.  The neighbor
    across the hall is where the little critters started and his place
    was exterminated four times.  Of course, there are 24 apartments 
    in the building and the only way to clear out the building is for
    all 24 apartments to be exterminated.  Fine, you say, talk to the
    landlord.  Well, these are condo apartments so there are 24 owners
    involved, some residents, some landlords.  All 24 have to be in
    agreement to exterminate in order to rid the building of the roaches.
    If one does not agree, the cockroaches will flee to that one
    apartment until the poison is gone, then begin to make the rounds
    again.  I called an exterminator on this so I know that to be the
    situation.  He also said that an extermination of all the apartments
    might not necessarily work because the poison cannot reach every 
    possible place that the eggs may be hidden.  

    So, I have decided to apply boric acid or borax and hope that it
    controls the population.  If things get out of control I'll have
    my landlord get an exterminator into my unit.  If that does not
    work, I'll vacate the premises and hope that I do not bring any
    with me.  

    Karen

	

    re: professional exterminators - Another fold breeder from NJ lost
    all of her kittens and I believe some of her cats, to a reaction to
    a flea spray used by a professional.  I'm not 100% clear on the
    details and I believe that part of the problem may have been an
    interaction between the chemical used by the professional and the
    chemicals in the fleashampoo that she used.
    
    The bottom line is DO NOT ASSUME that the professional will take
    care of the animals - question him/her.  And don't use other
    chemicals without checking with the exterminator first.  
    
    My advice is to get a recommendation from folks in this file who
    have had professionals come in.  Cindy Gerry has someone come in
    twice a year to spray for fleas (at this point its a preventative -
    she hasn't had a flea for years) and Heather Allison just had two
    places done for ants.  I can get in touch with Cindy or tell you 
    how to get in touch with her.
    
    Good luck.  I *H*A*T*E* roaches too and I WILL NEVER LIVE IN THE
    SOUTH causes I couldn't deal with giant bugs!!  
    
    Nancy the wimp.
    

      Re .12
      I know what the medicos say...ask most M.D.'s about Chiropractors and
    they'll tell you they are "witch doctors" too... Millions of Moms and
    Grandmas throughout this country used Boric Acid solutions on their
    kids for years...if this stuff was as bad as the optometry industry
    says it is, I'm surprised half the nation isn't blind by now!! 
      The point here is that ANYTHING ccan be dangerous if used improperly.
    However, using powdered or pill-formed dry boric acid on cockroaches is
    not 1/1,000,000,000th as dangerous as the millions of tons of lawn
    chemicals glopped onto grass all over the country every year, of the
    virulent pesticides that a commercial exterminator would have to apply
    to rid this apartment complex of the pests...not to mention the cost
    involved and the questionable results.
    
    
      I do agree totally with the exterminator who said that the entire
    building would have to be done and even then it wasn't 100% sure.
    
      Boric Acid is a "SPECIFIC" type of pest killer. It's a lot like some
    of the more recent rat and mouse poisons, which are simply a large
    dosage of Vitamin "D". Vitamin "D" is totally harmless to humans, dogs
    and cats, but in rats and mice it screws up their blood and causes a
    calcium imbalance, which causes the rodents systems to become
    uncontrollable and the animal dies. More of these "species specific"
    sort of NATURAL pesticides are being discovered by science. Some of the
    others that immediately come to mind are the "BT's" (Bacillus
    Thuringensis) which are specifically fatal to certain kinds of worms
    such as the cabbage worm and japanese beetle grub. No environmental
    impact, no harm to any other species--including birds who may eat them,
    yet they work very effectively on the target insect..
    
    
       We need MORE of this sort of thing...less Diazanon and stuff..
    
    JM

    When we lived in South Carolina many years ago, we had two cats who
    both thought catching and killing cockroaches was great sport!  I 
    constantly fought them, but they WILL come in.  The cats did not eat
    them, however, they must have tasted bad or something, but I would find
    large roach bodies, and near them, little roach heads (YUCK!!!!)  I 
    almost never saw a live one - any that came in didn't live long.  And
    I certainly appreciated the help. 8-)  
    
    As to chemicals, our house was sprayed recently, and a chat with the
    man who did it yielded the information that when the chemicals are
    wet they are VERY dangerous to animals, but once dry should be no
    problem.  We were being sprayed for both carpenter ants, and fleas
    (just saw a few of each - but...) so I don't know which set of
    chemicals fell into that category, but I would assume both to be safe. 
    We could bring the animals back in after 4 hours.  He also gave me a
    list of the chemicals used, in case of problems, and also because one
    of the cats was IN THE HOUSE during part of the spraying.  He had been
    hiding, and only turned up, despite several paniced searches, after the
    house began to smell!  He's fine now though.  
    
    Linda

      When I was in Mississippi, we had a real problem with our cat....she
    used to catch those little Chameleon lizards and bring them into the
    house...she wouldn't hurt them...just transport them... We'd see her
    walking into the huose with this little tail sticking out of her
    mouth...then she's "miaow", opening her mouth in the process, and a
    very terrified little lizard would leap out and go scurrying up the
    wall...which would cause the cat to sit making funny chirping sounds
    while staring intently at the poor little guy...who by this time would
    be changing colors like a rainbow... We sort of got used to living with
    them...and that was a plus, because theyate LOTS of the billions of
    mosquitoes that infest the Gulf region...
    
    
      Speaking of fleas...there was an instance a few years back where a
    person in Minneapolis bought one of the Flea Bombs that you set up and
    leave the house while it's doing it's thing... But the fleas were still
    there....  Sooo.....this person figured that the single bomb was
    insufficient, and went out and purchased one for every room in the
    house. These are the type that you activate and the insecticide is
    dispensed automatically over about a half hour...then you stay out of
    the sealed house for another 2 hours....
      ANyway, this person set up about 10 of the bombs...one in each room,
    and left the house...20 minutes later the entire house exploded!!!
    Seems the stuff in high concentrations is VERY flammable, and the high
    number caused a very concentrated mist...which reached the pilot light
    on the gas stove...
      I guess the fleas DID disappear, but this would seem to be not a very
    cost-effective way of iradication... Dunno whether they were poisoned
    though, or died of concussion...
    
    John Mc

    I've used flea bombs before, and the instructions on the package
    said to use one bomb per room.  However, they also stipulate that
    you turn off all pilot lights for gas heaters and stoves.
    
    Worked for us - our apartment didn't explode!

    Karen,
    
    I looked for the articles given to me by my local Extension Office,
    but couldn't find them.  Briefly, here is what they said:  There
    are a few good sprays you can use, the best of which is any spray
    that sterilizes the male so that they don't breed.  (As we had a
    very small problem I used DUROL by 3M instead and it did the trick.)
    A killing spray should be used in conjunction, but be aware that
    if any roaches survive they will have built up a resistencence to
    that spray and another kind/brand must be used.  Roaches like to
    live anywhere where it's warm:  In TV's with quick start motors,
    microwaves, digital clocks, behind dishwashers, or where ever a
    motor is active throughout the day.  Such appliances
    (with the exception of the dishwasher--who wants to move that) can 
    be put into freezing temperatures, outside in winter or in a plastic
    bag in the freezer, and this will kill the roaches.  (We called GE 
    and asked them about our TV and Microwave and they said it was 
    safe--such appliances are regularly left in cottages in Maine each winter.  
    
    A single "bombing" is not enough, which is why it's better to get them 
    where they live--stop them breeding.  
    
    We used the Duratol time release spray, which we were using to spray
    the house for fleas anyway, and another flea spray product (which I can't
    remember the name) which was also time release.  We got both
    from our vet.  Spray as many surfaces as you can reach, with the
    time release spray it keeps working long after it drys.  The spray
    said it was safe for pets after the spray had dryed so we just kept
    the cats out till then.  We were lucky that we were able to remove the cats
    from that part of the house.  They weren't affected, but they are
    a pretty tough hybrid lot.   Is there somewhere your cats would
    spend a couple of days once in a while while you treat the house?
    
    Roaches will hide in the smallest crack, expecially when they are
    young.  They especially like the inside of cupboards, right up in
    the upper corners, underneath drawers, under cabinet floors, under
    tables and furniture--in short, if it's difficult to look there
    that's where you find them.  When spraying in cracks, place
    a drinking straw in the crack and press the nozzel of the spray
    against the other end of the straw and spray--it works.      
    
    Best of luck,
    
    Rosemary Gaskell

    Sorry, that should be DURATOL by 3M, not DUROL.
    

    Well, last night I was talking with a friend who has suddenly been
    blessed with a roach problem.  Some construction on the upper flat
    shook the beasts from inside the walls and down and in they came to her
    place. While we were talking she picked up a large container of boric
    acid and a big bottle of castor-oil.  I knew about borax and boric acid
    but not the castor oil.  What she does with the stuff is to put it on
    small pieces of bread and when the females go for it it ruputres the
    eggs and the weee ones DIE!!!!  Anybody heard of this before??  I guess
    it makes sense considering the effect of the laxative.
    
    Giudi 

      Re .23
      Hmmm... I was picturing it gettin on their little toes and when they
    scurried around, causing them to lose their balance and crash into
    things..thus fracturing their wee skulls...
      Sorta like those "bug bombs"....never COULD drop the damn things
    quick enough to HIT any bugs with them...and they hardly EVER
    exploded...
    
    JM

    :*D Snicker snicker!! :*)

    
    
    
    Good luck with the task!
      
    When I lived in the tropics/equator, we used to purchase, in great
    quantitites I might add, HARRIS  Boracic Acid Tablets.  They were 
    in the 59 cent range, and were packaged in a yellow/creamish coloured
    box which had brown writing on it.   Has anyone seen them in Ma.?
    
    These worked like a dream. I used to take a handful and throw them
    wherever I thought Roaches might like to hide as the house adjoining
    mine was infested with the beasts.  They DEFINITELY WORKED as I never
    had a problem.
    
    /Anna
    
    

      Re .26
    
      That's the ones!! I used to get 'em in Mississippi...scatter 'em
    behind the fridge, counters, under the sink.....and later find the
    little devils with all their feet up in the air...and intoxicated
    death-grins on their nasty little faces!!!
    
    JM

  
	I just bought a box of Borax yesterday.  It is a detergent of
	sorts.

	A number of uses were described on the back of the box, including
	putting some in with the kitty litter to keep down odors.  Thus,
	I can assume it is safe with cats.  But I'm wondering if I got
	the right stuff!

	Karen

    Please don't think I'm nutz (heah heah) but somebody in the office told
    me yesterday that while she was visiting her sister in Florida that she
    saw flying Roaches - yea with wings.  I've never heard of this variety
    and thought that this woman was talking about June bugs.  Hot dam*, the
    kitties would have a field day with those bombers!
    
    Giudi

    
    	Oh, yes, those are Palmetto bugs! Not only do they scurry, 
    	but they also fly!! EEEEYYUUWWWW!! 
    

    YES!!!! I used to live in West Palm Beach, and they called them 
    Palmetto bugs (or something VERY close to that) they ARE DISGUSTING
    and HUGE HUGE HUGE!!! BIGGER than junebugs!
    
    
    UUUUAAAAGGGHH! GROSS ME OUT THE DOOR! I HATE BUGGIES!
    
    Bonnie

    NOTES COLISION! Hee hee!
    
    Bon

    .30, .31
    
    But are these critters roaches/in the roach family or a variety onto
    themselves.  Do they live or can they live in california???
    
    This note is making me itch!
    
    Giudi

    I've seen some monster with wings when I lived in an infested
    building in Massachusetts, so I would assume they could
    live in Ca.  They're coming to get you, Giudi :-)
    

    Karen:
    
    Grazzie!!!
    
    G

        Oh, yeah!!! They ARE roaches...just HUMONGOUS ones... Maybe the
    damned things got "irradiated" and grew like the ants in the movie
    "THEM!!"......(Now THERE was a good bug movie...ants the size of
    Rhinos...)
    
        My cat thought those palmetto roaches were funny, hard-shelled
    mice...she used to catch them all the time, but she'd bring 'em home
    alive!!
    
      JM

    Ah, those irradiated-grows-to-immense-size and starts stalking
    unsuspecting family in the countryside/New York subway movies.
    Alas, when they ran out of things to irradiate and tried it with
    Giant Bunnies THUMP THUMP THUMPing after their victims, it 
    somehow wasn't the same....
    

    I guess they figured irradiated turtles weren't the same either, so
    they made them super heroes instead. :^)
    
    Jo

     Re .37
    
      HEY!! I thought "Lepus" was a good movie!!  (Only thing wrong was
    that it was technically stupid!! The name of the movie was inconsistent
    with the bunnies used..."Lepus" is the Jackrabbit, and they used giant
    cottontails...Genus "Sylvilagus")
    
    JM 

    Those of us who live up north, should be truly grateful!  When I was 
    living in Nassau, the roaches used to walk - not run - very slowly into
    a room.  They were so big, you could saddle and ride them!  My kitten
    used to find them, and keep them occupied until I could either use the
    bug spray or put a plastic (had to be heavy!) bowl over them.  Talk
    about u-u-g-g-l-y-y!  Of course, I also had a centipede in the house
    and various other tropical critters!  
    
    I'll take good old New England any day - at least we have a couple of
    seasons without bugs, and they usually don't get to be horror-show
    size!