Conference misery::feline_v1

She found someplace new to pee -- I'm sitting here at work
smelling a strong odor of cat urine. Took off my jacket -- 
smell went away. Guess you can figure out where she went...

    Sounds like you have a real dilemma here and unfortunately I don't have
    any answers for you.
    
    Otis has NEVER breaked litter training - Tiffany HAS.  Whenever she was
    ticked off at us - if there was any change in routine (ours or hers) - 
    the addition of Otis (although it was brief) and then with Sam - she went 
    nuts.  She still only tolerates Otis - but does a lot of hissing when he 
    invades her space.
    
    She peed on the carpet last week - vet said she had the flu - gave her
    a shot and she is on Amoxicillan right now.  She does, however, like
    only a CLEAN litter box and since being declawed does not 'cover'
    anything.  I wonder sometimes if those particles bother her and she is
    protecting herself from getting an infection, because before she was
    declawed there were no problems regarding the litter box.  She was
    about 9 months old when she was altered and declawed.  Also, she was
    the runt of the litter - if that has any bearing on anything.
    
    The vet did tell me one time - when we had the problem of Sam/Tiffany -
    that in some behavioral studies that they have performed on cats - some
    are definately a one cat family.  And, I guess like us human's - some
    are insecure - some need more attention than others (ALL DAY LONG) 
    and some require a lot of patience and understanding.
    
    I empathize with your situation - having had the problem occur from
    time to time - it definately can be a trying time.  Your baby is lucky
    that you are willing to work towards finding a solution and that you 
    love her so much.
    
    Marilyn, Otis and Tiffany
    
    

If you find a solution, please post it.  I am facing the possibility of
putting Nick down because of his problem...I've spent $900 dollars to be
sure he is healthy...he just needs a very quiet, undisturbing environment...
and our neighborhood/home/life isn't it.  Nobody else wants a 12 year old
brain-damaged cat who is losing his cat-box habits - I have to make a decision
on this before May when my mother and her dog arrive.  this has been going
on for two years and I am at the end of the rope.  It is simply too much of
a health risk to all other animals and people to allow it to continue.

			You have my heartfelt sympathy,

					D

    I have found that the effect of my whole queens on my household pets
    are that the household pets find places to urinate.  The incidence
    increases when one of the whole queens is in season.  The female
    household pet does it more frequently than the male, but both have done
    it.  The other night Tilly squated on the hearth right in front of me.
    She is showing her displeasure that Limoges is in season.  Your problem
    with Shanti may just be something that you all learn to live with if
    you can't narrow down a physical problem.
    
    The fact that she has a high lymphocyte count might indicate that she
    does have some type of physical problem that is contributing.  I would
    continue to pursue that with the vet.  Ask her for the implications of
    a high lymphocyte count.
    
    Jo

    Jo, I think the lymphocyte count was on the low end of normal.  Hers
    is 6500 when normal is 6500-14000.  
    
    The only other thing I can think of is to use as many catboxes as
    possible.  Some cats absolutely refuse to share with other cats and
    unneutered females smell stronger than neutered ones.  ALso, some cats
    insist on having one box for pee and one for poop.  If Shanti is like
    that your only alternative may be to keep her in one room with two
    catboxes and not let anyone else use those boxes.  
    
    I believe Paula Scott was having a similar problem with Tequila and 
    confining her to 1/2 the basement with her own catboxes served as a
    good short-term solution.  Paula did place Tequila with another home
    where she is an only cat and Tequila is a new cat.  Never misses the
    box and is very very affectionate.
      
    I've been through this too - still go through it with Dundee and 
    some mystery cat every now and then.  Its very frustrating!  I buy
    Urine Kleen by the gallon (seriously, I use it to spray the boxes but
    its very good for this too).  You do have to learn to live with it and
    to minimize the damage sometimes.  Otherwise your only alternatives
    are to place the cat in another home, make her an outdoor cat if she's
    not declawed, or put her down.  No one likes to consider that last
    alternative.  I live with it, and my parents lived with a cocker
    spaniel who peed in the livingroom for 9 years.
      GOod luck.
      Nancy DC
    

Well, Shanti went again on the couch -- Friday and Sunday morning.
Needless to say, my husband has had it. I was in hysterical tears!
We've tried putting her in the basement, but she pees in the
corner under the staircase. We now have her isolated in the basement in a
2x2x4 cage with litter box, food and water. And yes, my Gracie
is most DEFINITELY in heat -- the neutered male tried mounting
her the other night (he's a pervert -- mounts his bed on occasion
too!) But we do have an appointment with the vets on Wednesday.
I'm telling the vet to find something -- and if she doesn't, then
I'm build Shanti an apartment in the basement, complete with radio and
TV. Hope you don't think I'm kidding! I am so very upset. I can't work,
I can't sleep well, and I won't let her out of my site! She would
probably love to be the only female cat, but I love Gracie too! And
since we're going to be breeding Gracie this fall, >I have no alterna-
tive than to build a kitty condo.

Thanks for all your support! I'll let you know the status. In the mean-
time, if you can think of anything else that might be wrong, let me know.

Cheryl, Shanti, Charlie and Gracie

    I have this problem with Holly.  It was temporarily solved when i added
    a new litter box with one of those fine sand litters, because only she
    used the box.  However, once the other cats decided that box was okay
    too, the problem returned.  here's how I cope:
    
    I love Holly, so she stays no matter what.
    I use Nature's Miracle on the places she goes.
    I have those Renuzit deodorizers in several places in the house;
    they really seem to help.  They are labelled non-toxic.  You can adjust
    the opening so that you smell neither them nor the odor they are
    destroying (give it awhile to work).  The kind is called something
    like Super Odor Destroyer.
    Fortunately, Holly goes on the floor, not the couch.  For awhile
    she went on the bed and I discovered that flannel sheets and having the
    pillows on the bed seemed connected with this;  since I changed to
    regular cotton sheets and take the pillows off except when I'm
    sleeping, the bed problem went away.  Try asking a cleaner if they can
    deodorize the couch cushions, and then try putting plastic or
    something she won't like on the couch to "break" her of that habit.
    
    
    

for cats that use furniture, try getting some of the harmless noisemaker
things that respond to pressure from touching - like when a cat or dog
jumps up on the couch...they make a loud snapping noise and generally make
an animal avoid the place where he/she has "fired" one off....it may force
the cat to simply avoid the couch altogether.  They were mentioned in
the canine notes conference and probably can be found in catalogs.  They
are safer than mouse traps because they don't ever hurt the animal.

I wish this was a solution to my problem.  However, Nick responds to stress
by having diarrhea anywhere he is standing and then he proceeds to run it
around the house- and that's not something you can avoid/ignore/get
around.

	I have had the urinating problem with three of my furry friends.
Igor, who had a traumatized front leg, went on the carpet for 6 years before
I had him put down. Patches, who was born in my living room, never box trained
properly and went on the cellar floor for seven years before I had her put
down. Moustache, the latest offender, pees on the kitchen counters in the
corner or on the side of the tub.
	With all three I spent many dollars on vets, on odor eliminating
products, litter types, cages, etc. Patches spent THREE MONTHS in the cage
and every time I let her out she would run downstairs and pee on the cellar
floor IN FRONT OF THE LITTER BOXES (there are seven of them)!
	After I had Patches put down, I thought everything would be alright
but it was not meant to be. It seems that we had two of them going, not one.
It seemed strange to me that after we had brought Moustache in, Patches
suddenly started peeing on the kitchen counters. But Patches HATED Moustache
and would attack her every time they were in the same room. And since
Moustache's favorite place to be was on the Microwave on the kitchen counter,
I thought Patches had decided to mark that to get back at her. The cellar
wetting stopped, but the kitchen counter episodes continued after she was gone.
	Moustache has been in the cage since OCTOBER. Constantly at first,
then we would let her out when we got home and she would go back in for the
night and all the next day. Then we started leaving her out on weekends, but
at night she would be put in the cage. We then started leaving her out all
day Monday, in at night. And so on until she was out all day every day and
only in the cage at night. At first she would make a mistake about once a 
week and would then spend a few days confined to the cage. Then she went
almost two weeks before a mistake. This last time she had gone almost five
weeks, but yesterday when I got home she had gone on the kitchen counter.
	We had decided to try and find her a home with no other cats (we
have seven others and she still only gets along with one of them after two
years) but have not had much luck. (Many reasons for this, one being that
Dave is not convinced we can ever find her a suitable home.) I have also tried
to discuss the other option, he doesn't want to talk about that at all.
	I do not know where to go from here. I have tried and really do not
want to have another one of my "rescued" babies put down, but I have to
consider the fact that she may never train properly and may eventually get
the others to join her in her dirty habits. Where would I be then? 

Regards,
Carol (Majic,Smidgen,Korki,Baby,Chessie,Cleo,Gabby & Moustache - the girls -
       indoors only)
      (Buddy $ Tripod - the boys - outdoors only)
      (Blackie - the king (garage kitty) I/O)

    You have a fairly high number of cats.  My Holly started exhibiting
    "indiscriminate urination" when I added my third cat.  This leads me to
    wonder if Igor, etc. were cats that couldn't handle such a high
    population density of other cats and engaged in marking as a result.
    Perhaps once you find a home for the latest puss, you should consider
    not acquiring any more until some of your others pass on.
    
    I hope you find a good home for Moustache;  this must be very
    stressful for you.
    

    
>    I hope you find a good home for Moustache;  this must be very
>    stressful for you.
    
with the current problem, there isn't much chance of that, is there?  I am
VERY sympathetic -- Nicholas is now on probation...one more problem and I'm
going to take him on that last one way trip.  I've kept this cat going for
12 years (his entire life), but at an astronomical cost to me and the
house -- I'm at the end of this rope, and the carpets in the house are going
to be replaced late summer - $3,500.00 cost to me.  It's my roommate's
house, but my cat has caused the damage.

I love Nick, but he is never going to adapt to the move from the old house
to this one.  That's when he went "off" into permanent terror and after
8 years, he's still terrified.  Every sound that he hears from the neighbor's
house set him off.  When the neighbor behind the house was building a small
shed, Nick lost catbox training entirely.  Nick was always "not right", due
I'm sure, to the terrible condition his mother was in when she gave birth.
She was a stray.  Sometimes, we do our best to rescue a cat, but the cat
just cannot be saved.  I've finally come to the understanding that Nicky has
been terrified of EVERYTHING for years -- and I cannot protect him from 
everyday life.  All I can do is let him go.

    One of my females went crazy spraying everything when a new cat
    came to share her room. we had her on chlortrimetron (spelling?)
    and the destruction seemed to taper off over the next month.
    The alergy pill dries em out a bit not to mention a little sedative.
    Can't say if it was the pill or time that helped the problem for
    sure but you could ask the vet to try it.

Since I haven't given you the update on Shanti lately,
thought I'd give you one.

Her urination problem is getting better! The vet put
her on a sedative -- don't know the exact one. (It
could possibly be the one mentioned in .12, but that
doesn't sound right.) She's a mellow cat to begin with,
so this pill makes her REALLY lovey dovey! The prescrip-
tion started out as 2 a day, but now it's 1 every other
day, and she does fine. Can't complain at all! If her
urination should start again, though, I'll going to
build a "cat" apartment for her. We'll watch her when 
we're home, and when we're not, take her to her
"apartment". 

Cheryl, Gracie, Shanti & Charlie

    re .12 - ???????
    
    Aspirin, Advil, etc. should never
    be given to cats because it can kill them. I had 
    a discussion with my vet two weeks ago on this 
    very subject, and he mentioned this to me.  Maybe
    the stuff your vet prescribed had no aspirin in
    it?
    
    Lynne

    re .14
    chlor.. is an antihistime and isn't an asprin type med.,
    and of course who wouldn't ask their vet before giving medications!
    it's surprising the number of prescription drugs in the vets office
    are the same as human med's, hum could be another topic for another
    note?

For the benefit of anyone coming across this old note...

Our male cat had completely stopped using the litter tray for a few months
recently. At first I put it down to an infection which I had him treated for.
After an X-ray, urine and blood samples, and 2 courses of antibiotics, the
vet said it was behavioural, and suggested trying hormone tablets (for the
cat, not for me %^)). I resisted this because of their "dulling" effects.

I had assumed that he was getting fussy about sharing his box, and had
added several more boxes (a total of 5 between 2 cats).

To cut a long story short, I switched them back to clay-based (Fullers earth)
litter from the wood based they had been using (apparently happily) for nearly
a year. The result was immediate & complete rehabilitation (so far). They
now have 3 boxes between them, and share happily.... 2 weeks and counting...
*DC

    That's great news!  Especially since I have one that periodically
    breaks training.  He IS on Ovaban (Hormones) right now but that
    didn't stop him from trying to breed Angel the other day ;^)
    

I don't know if you have these in the States, but I bought a Hoover Aquamaster
carpet cleaner to help cope with this problem. I have found it very useful in
"damage limitation".

The cleaner sprays a detergent solution onto the carpet and sucks the solution
(plus dirt) back up into a tank at the same time (there's also a brand
called "VAX", honestly). They're basically powerful vacuum cleaners capable
of sucking up fluids.
*DC

    Yup, we have the VAX here. It's made by Sears and according to
    my friends it works great. It cost around $200. but if you have
    to periodically spot here and there for accidents or high traffic
    areas on the carpet it would pay for itself in no time.
    
    Barbara

    I bought a VAX at one point and its made by a British firm and
    sold by Sears, I'm pretty sure.  And I paid $300 and ended up 
    returning it because it didn't have an effective "beater bar" and
    just couldn't clean my hall rug.  I was SO disappointed.  I'm going
    to save my money for a Rainbow.