Conference misery::feline_v1

    Cheryl,,  you and Pasha are in our thoughts and prayers..!!!!
    Kate, Happy, Preschie..

    Cheryl,
    
    I would wait a bit, and especially wait until Pasha has had time
    to recover from the medication and the stress of the anesthesia
    before making any permanent evaluation of him condition.  (Holly gets
    sick from various medications as well.)  What Pasha has sounds
    like what my Sweetie was discovered to have a year or two ago.
    
    I expected the worst after Sweetie was diagnosed, but he is doing
    quite well and it has been quite awhile.  The vet and a specialist
    vet have no idea of what brought on the lung damage, their only
    guess is an extremely rare reaction to flea powder, which I used to
    use on my cats when one was an outdoor cats.  They said this is 
    occasionallly seen from flea powder in dogs but it would be
    the first time the specialist  had seen it in a cat.  (It was vetchem,
    a "good brand".)
    
    What I did was:  get rid of teh Everclean litter (one of the new clumping
    litters, whose fine dust seemed to be an irritant), change my vacuuming
    practices (tricky -- not often enough and irritating dust
    collects, but vacuuming also kicks up dust -- what I do is half the
    house while the cats hide fromthe vacuum cleaner in the other half,
    then when they come out the dust has died down.  The next day I do the
    other half of the house.)  I also got rid of a furry-like surface
    throw blanket that seemed to bother him.
    
    He coughs every so often (a few times one day, nothing the next, etc.)
    and basically seems okay.  He has had followup xrays every 6 months
    with no (thank God) progression of the disease.
    
    please let us know how Pasha is doing.
    
    Karen
    

    Poor Pasha!  Our thoughts and prayers will be with you.   My vet
    also suggest kaopectate or Peptol Bismol for the "hershey squirts".
    I've also used Baby Food on a few of mine....they love it...especailly
    the Beef/Vegetables or the Chicken/Vegetables.
    
    About getting a friend for Pasha.  Boy...this is going to be a hard
    decision your going to have to make.  My suggestion is waiting for
    a little while....to understand if she will stabalize or not.  I
    don't think you want added stress on her right now.
    
    We'll continue to pray for a recovery and healthy life for Pasha.
    
    Sandy (Tamba, Poco, Barkley, Chloe, Agnes, Dewey, Abby...and
                                  J.C. and Van Gogh (outside strays....)

    Sweetie is also on a small amount of Metamucil (1/8 teaspoon) a
    day to soften things up since he was in a car accident and had
    permanent pelvis damage before I got him.  I understand Metamucil
    works both ways (softens if necessary, solidifes if too liquid)
    so you might ask your vet about that if the kaopectate doesn't
    work.  I get the unflavored kind of Metamucil as
    some cats don't like citrus.  (I'm suspecting this problem is due to
    the medication Pasha was on, and so would clear up shortly, am I wrong?)
    

    Cheryl -
      We'll be thinking about you two.  I agree with others about waiting
    until he's stabilized, and then I'd take it a day at a time.  I
    think I would try to introduce another cat and I have two suggestions.
    1. Pick a cat with a personality similar to a Persian's.  In other
    words, don't get something like an Aby.  They are VERY high energy cats
    and I don't think a cat like that would be a good match.
    
    2. Make the situation clear when you get the cat and be sure you can
    return the cat for a refund if, after a reasonably adjustment period,
    things don't work out.
    
    Good luck and keep us posted.
    

    Cheyrl, I found the best way to pop a pill down a cat is to:
    
    1.  Hold their head in your left hand, gently, but firmly.
    
    2.  Open their mouth with the middle finger of your left hang.
    
    3.  Flip in the pill that was between your right hand thumb and index
        finger.
    
    4.  Hold the kitty's mouth shut 'til it dissolves to the point where
        it can't be spit out.  Of course, with a Persian, step 4 would be
        a bit more difficult.
    
    Good luck.  We all pray for Pasha's recovery.
    
    Paula, Schnapps and Rici

    With #4, stoke their throat gently until they swallow.  Which isn't
    to say that I don't ever subsequently find a pill that I would
    have sworn had been swallowed instead sitting on the rug.
    

    Amen to Karen Kolling's statement. Gone, of course, and then 10
    minutes lates find it on the floor.
    
    It is especially hard with Ming as she has no back teeth either
    top or bottom on either side and with her slightly turned up nose
    it seems to have LOTS of places to hide.
    
    Catch them off guard if you can. (I shouldn't brag but I have TWO
    other cats who will eat any kind of pill out of my hand.) Easy...
    
    Barbara & her 3M's

If I am pilling a cat that is difficult, I will usually lay them on their 
left side on the floor.  Then, I kneal on the floor next to them and use my left
arm and hand to both restrain them and hold open the mouth.  This is difficult 
to explain, but I will give it a try: I put my left forearm against the cat's
body and exert some weight on it, while pulling the head back with my left hand.
I then use my right hand (with pill between fingers) to pry open the mouth and 
pop the pill to the back of the throat.  At this point, once the pill is in the 
mouth and the mouth is closed, if you gently blow on the cat's nose, it will 
usually cause a swallow reflex.

I have to pill Joui everynight for the rest of her life.  She is the ultimate 
"spitter-outer". :^)

Jo

    Re: .12
    
    Some pills are bitter and cause the cat to salivate.  Holly literally
    dripped sheets of saliva after one pill and the vet was able to
    change to another kind that didn't cause that.
    

    re: second cat - One breed that might work for you and Pashe is
    an exotic shorthair.  Exotics are a man-made breed that started
    as a cross between a persian and an american shorthair.  They
    are basically a short hairred persian and require very little work.
    They are somewhat smarter and a bit more active than the persians
    and are also VERY sweet and mellow kitties.
    
    Cindy Gerry (ICS::GERRY) has been breeding cats for about 10 years.
    She started with Perisans and Himmys and now breeds BEAUTIFUL exotics.
    Perhaps you could contact her.  She's not cheap but I can vouch for the
    health and quality of her kittens.
      Nancy DC
    

    Gee, Nancy great minds work alike.. 
        Cin does have wonderful  furries.. I have of her Long Haired
    Exotics..and she is just adorable and very sweet,not to mention
      a little "spoiled".
    Kate, Happy, Preschie.(yup I am cattyshack kid.. )
    

    Don't tell Preschie ........but I saw a picture of her at the
    Feline Party...and I have to admit she is gorgeous!!!! 
    
    Sandy

     This message is from Preschie:
                Thank you very much Sandy.. PURRPURRRPURRR..
      

    Well Cheryl....it's down on your hands and knees and hand feed the
    baby.   When one of our cats who was very sick wouldn't eat...we
    also fed him baby food.  but the funny part was he would only
    eat the baby food from a spoon.  If you put it in a dish...he
    walked away.
    
    He won....we fed him with a spoon.  At that point I would have done 
    everything to get him to eat.
    
    Sandy
    
    

    I have the feeling that there's something we don't understand
    about how cats manage to eat food.  My guys love cookies and bread
    if I hold it for them so that they can tear off pieces from the side
    (it has to be at the correct angle).  Put it in their dish
    and they look at it "what am I supposed to do with that?"
    I think there must be come difficulty with grabbing or tearing
    some things....
    

    I say there just SPOILED rotten!!!  If there is something on
    the floor that they should not be getting....boy they can
     grab/tear at that no problem!
    
    Sandy

if you are concerned with getting enough calories/protein into your cat when
he is ill, then you might try using a "tube feeder" - the vet can give you
one - get the one with the biggest diameter spout (still quite narrow) and
only buy "second food" baby foods for the cat.  You can then squirt a generous
glob onto the cat's tongue and he will usually swallow it - repeat until you
feel he's had enough or until he refuses to swallow more.  I fed once in
the morning and twice in the evening when Tabs had kitty flu and she didn't
lose weight.

of course, if he is feeling good enough to purr, he probably just wants to
be pampered a little - you down on the floor, hand feeding the darling boy
is JUST the ticket!  8^}

Re: tube feeding

If you ask your vet to give you tube feeding equipment, he will probably give 
you the tubes and syringes and expect that you mean to pass the tube down the 
throat directly to the stomach and then insert the food right into the stomach.

If you need to just squirt the food onto the tongue, ask for a syringe.  A 20cc
size is easy to manipulate with one hand.  Much bigger than that and it gets 
more difficult to manuever it with one hand.  I have some 60cc syringes that 
I can sometimes use, but only if the cat is cooperating.

Jo

    I'm sitting here laughing because this weekend we tried to pill
    Dewey and I thought I was getting real good at it....but the
    little bugger took the pill, I blew in his nostrils, he lapped
    his chops, we let him down...and within two minutes he spit
    out the pill.
    
    Makes me wonder when we were using the Roundworm Pills...if he
    really took them or if I have a pile of pills in the secret
    hiding place. Maybe that answers why we could not get rid of
    the roundworms.
    
    The little bugger!!!
    
    Sandy
    
    

    Re: .25
    Sounds to me that, if your vet agrees, you should stop the
    pills.  I also think if the vet says continue that you might ask him
    for an alternate medicine that doesn't cause all that saliva.
    
    After I've fed my cats a special dinner, like salmon, and I go back
    to the regular food the next meal, I get those "What's this?  You
    expect me to eat this stuff?" looks.
    

    Re: Pilling the cat
    
    What you need is the Kitty Suppository Injector(tm) from Bertha's
    Kitty Boutique 8-)  One look at this thing and the cat will just
    get up and take the pill himself 8-)
    
    [Sorry, I can't do the pitch as well as Garrison Keillor can...]
    
    On a slightly more serious note... I know that for horsies they make
    a "gun" that you shove into their mouths that lets you fire the pill
    past their tongue so they GOTTA swallow it.  (think about it... to pill
    a horse by hand the way we pill cats would require 2-3 people... and if
    the horse decides to be uncooperative he can LITERALLY wreck the
    place!)  Anyone thought of making a kitty model? (only half a 8-) on 
    this one...)
    
    Tamara told me the story once about the time they mixed some pills
    in with the horse's oats.  Feeding time comes... munch, munch...
    and when horsie walks away there's a neat little pile of blue pills
    next to the empty oats bucket!
    
    --jim
    

    Jim,
    
    there is a kitty model of this.  I've seen it at all cat shows and at
    some of the pet supply stores.  It's a GREAT tool!
    
    Good luck with your baby!
    
    Holly
    

    Re .29 - I would rather worm my horses once every
    hour then try to worm (pill) Casey just once! :-)
    
    Horse wormer(paste) comes in a plunger syringe, and you just
    slip it in the side of the horses mouth, depress the
    plunger, tilt horses head up, and the wormer slides down
    the back of the throat, viola!   Pilling a horse is a different
    story, though! :-)               
    
    When Casey was on Amoxcillin, I wore "pink bubble gum" for
    a week.....
    
    Lynne
    
    

>>>Re: tube feeding

Jo,

I got the tube feeder because I could trim the end with a pair of scissors
and then file the edges smooth with a nail file - and I had a nice sized
tube that allowed me to push through the food easier...it is a "second food"
baby food and sometimes has little lumps in it which tend to not go through
a syringe easily.  I'm sorry, I should have been clearer about the process
I was using.  You're right about the one-handed problem...I wrapped my
patient in a towel that I warmed first in the dryer - it felt SOOOO good,
she stopped fighting it...mostly.

				D

    Most tube feeding kits consist of tubes, and syringes in different
    sizes.  You would insert the tube down the cat's throat, then attach it
    to a syringe which you have already filled with the food mixture.  Just
    wanted to be sure that folks understood this, and that no one went to
    their vet asking for a tube feeding kit and then was surprised at the
    procedure.
    
    In most cases, you would tube feed kittens but not adult cats.  Adult
    cats have teeth, and teeth can and will cut a tube while it is in the
    throat.  Then you have the additional complication of trying to fish
    the end of the tube out of the cat's throat.  Most of the time, baby
    kittens either don't have teeth yet, or they are not strong enough to
    bite through a tube. :^)
    
    Jo