Conference misery::feline_v1

I am not a breeder, but a voracious reader/researcher into the field of
feline health.  I am becoming more and more reluctant to vaccinate with some
of the newer vaccines. In particular, the FIP vaccine scares me - the disease 
is potentially fatal and strongly contagious - and unless I can get complete 
test data for review, and yes, that means live animal tests (I expect my 
medicines to be tested on human volunteers and I expect my cats' medicines 
to be tested on cats), I not only WON'T vaccinate my cats, but I will also 
not allow cats that are vaccinated anywhere near my cats or their environment.
I definitely fear a cat/kitten that sheds any form of the FIP virus.

This decision is very hard for me.  We have lots of cats running loose
in our neighborhood and some of them don't look healthy at all.  There is
a high risk of nose touching through the window and door screens during the
warm times of the year - most of our year around here.  Even though my cats
are indoor-only, mostly due to the threat of these diseases, I do worry alot.

    As I did with the FLV vaccine, I will probably wait for a few years
    to see how the FIP vaccine fares in practical use.
      Nancy

    My primary vet, one of the senior staff at Angell, is going to
    represent Angell in March (?) at a conference on FIP, which will
    include discussion/findings about the new vaccine.  He will report
    back to me upon his return, and I will be happy to share that all
    with FELINErs (I'll post a new note then).
    
    I only will allow KILLED vaccines to be used on my cats.  Same
    reason as mentioned by earlier responders to this basenote -- don't
    want ANY virus being shed around the house, whether there are
    preggers cats or not!
    
    Fort Dodge has just come out with a new 4-way killed vaccine, adding
    Chlamydia to their former 3-way killed vaccine.  As far as I could
    determine, no one previously offered a killed chlamydia vaccine,
    even as a separate shot.
    
    I also will want to see the scientific evidence behind the new FIP
    vaccine (and being a statisitician with a biomedical research
    background, I will surely have many questions to ask my vet and/or
    Norden or any other mfg. who may have such a vaccine).  And if it
    isn't a killed vaccine, I doubt that I will ever use it, although
    that decision could change as a result of long-term exposure testing
    in the future...
    
    Pennie

    I am with you Penny, I use only killed vaccines on my cats too.  It is
    amazing what switching to killed vaccines has done to improve the
    general health of my cats.  No more vaccines induced colds, sniffles,
    runny eyes.  No more medicating whole litters of kittens for weeks
    following vaccinations.  Life is so much simpler with killed vaccines. 
    I use the Fort Dodge brand, but haven't heard about the new one with
    the killed chlamydia.  When I stopped vaccinating for chlamydia
    altogether, I stopped having cases of it pop up in my cats. 
    Interesting.
    
    Can't wait to hear the findings on the new vaccine from your vet.
    
    Jo

    I also agree, I use only killed vaccines, and haven't had any reactions
    to shots since I switched.  I use the Fel-o-Vax PCT from Fort Dodge.
    Fort Dodge also now has the 4 was with killed Chlamydia.  It has
    just become available this month.  
    
    I'm not going to use the 4-way myself, since I've never had a problem
    with chlamydia, and don't really feel like introducing the possibility
    of something new.  
    
    Will be very interested to hear more about the FIP vaccine.
    
    Also, did you notice that Foster & Smith now has FelV Testing kits
    to use at home?
    
    cin
    

    I saw those.  Says that it can be used with tears, saliva or blood. 
    With blood, the test kit will do less tests than with the saliva or
    tears.  I think that the cost was $129.99 for the kit.
    
    They sure have some interesting things in that catalog.  They also have
    the Lyme vaccine.
    
    Jo

    This is pretty interesting stuff you guys!  Seeing that I now have five
    new babies, I could use more info on vaccinating myself.  I will bring
    them in for the first visit to mak sure they are all right.  Can anyone
    give helpful hints on vaccinating?
    Karen Ruby, Stinky, Wing and the little ones ( have to come up with
    something better eventually!)

    I forgot to mention, I get the Master Animal Care catalog and did
    notice some of these new vaccines.  How do you deterine which company
    to order from?
    KRSW+5

    re: .8
    
    My decision on which company to order from is to check the prices.
    Then I order the cheapest (taking shipping costs into account, of
    course).  That is for non-perishable items like carriers or food
    dishes or disinfectants, etc.  For perishable items, especially
    vaccines (which need refrigeration) and medications, I also ask
    the order-taker-person to check the expiration date of the batch
    they will be sending me.  [I don't want a year's supply of vaccine
    that will expire in 3 months, for example.]
    
    Some companies can cut prices by purchasing (and then reselling)
    items that are close to expiration dates.  That could be a great
    savings if you need it NOW.  Actually, most of the companies that
    I have called, and there are many of them, have pretty reasonable
    expiration dates in the future.
    
    Pennie

    I order depending on price and the shipping methods.  Some places only
    ship to my area on certain days, and sometimes that means that my
    vaccines will be sitting at the UPS warehouse over a weekend.  Of
    course, for double the price most places will guarantee next day
    delivery.  
    
    So, I order from companies that are within CA and that also have a good
    price.
    
    If you ever get a vaccine order that is not cold upon arrival, call the
    company and send it back.  They should be kept cold until you receive
    them.
    
    Jo

    Karen -
      SInce I decided to vaccinate the kittens at 6, 9 & 12 weeks I didn't
    want to expose them to the stress of a vet visit.  THey're very young
    and not only are you exposing them to stress of just going outside and
    into a strange environment, but you're also bringing them someplace
    that people bring sick cats to.  I didn't think it was wise.  I gave
    my own shots.  Later, when the cats needed rabies shots they went
    to the vet.
      Nancy

    Thanks for all your information, I have found it very usefull!  Cin
    Gerry has also offered to help me with this when the time comes. I did
    talk to the breeder last nite about this and (Cin if your listening!)
    she has never vaccinated any of her kittens before 8 weeks of age. 
    This she said is due to the fact that Oriental/Siamese develop at a
    much slower rate than do other breeds, both physically and mentally. 
    She feels that they are still much too small at say 4 weeks to
    vaccinate.  She also has always used a modified live virus with no ill
    happenings.  I guess this just goes to show how many different ways and
    beliefs there are out there as to what is proper.  I am lucky enough to
    hear it all and then make my own decisions as to what seems right.  I
    do feel that a vet visit isn't necessarily needed if the cat is healthy
    due to the exposure risk.  This is not just a means of being able
    to"save a few bucks", but it helps!  
    
    One last question then I'll shut up:  If you do your own vaccinating
    and then sell a kitten, how or what kind of proof is necessary for a
    health certificate?  I know to take her to the vet for an ok visit, can
    they just take you at your word that you have done it?

    My vet takes my word on it.  I usually keep a kitten health record for
    each kitten and I note down the day the shot was given, the brand name
    and the lot numbers off the vaccine vial, and the vaccine's expiration
    date.  That is good enough for Doc Rue.  She writes "see health record" 
    on the health certificate where is asks for vaccinations.  In our state, 
    filling out the vaccine part of the certificate is optional.  I also 
    note fecal exams, health exams, any illnesses, wormings, etc. in the 
    kitten's health record and then that goes to the new home with the kitten. 
    I keep a separate sheet with general health comments about the litter in 
    the mother's file at home.
    
    Also, when I take them to the vet, we have found it easier to create
    record that is just for kitten's that will be sold, and keep all their
    health infomation in that.  I used to do it by the mother's names, but
    that was hard for the receptionists to find sometimes (when you have
    several queens and their names are similar).  The receptionist would
    often make errors and write a kitten's info on the wrong chart and then
    when we tried to refer back to it we had to search each chart for the
    right kitten.
    
    The best advice I can give is to keep good records, then the vet will
    be more likely to take your word that the shots were given.
    
    Jo

    My vet knows I vaccinate all my own kittens, and yes, they have
    to take my word for it.  But, also, my vet taught me how to give
    the shots.  
    
    The health certificate from the vet basically certifies the cat
    was in good health on the day the vet saw it, that's it!  
    
    I vaccinate using the Fel-o-vax pct 3-way at 6, 9 and 12 weeks.
    I feel more comfortable using the all killed vaccine.  I had many
    kittens have adverse reactions to the modified live, and it simply
    was not worth it.  They'ld get first shots, and then within a day
    or two they'ld start with the runny eyes and sneezing, and usually
    would have to be put on antibiotics.  Since using the killed vaccines
    I haven't had a single reaction.
    
    The 6 week vaccine probably isn't really necessary, it just makes
    me feel safer.  If the kittens are still nursing, the antibodies
    their still getting from Momcat's milk probably counteract the vaccine.
    That's why you should always make sure that they get at least one
    shot after they have been completely weaned.  I usually wean my
    kittens somewhere between 6 and 9 weeks.  
    
    Karen, we'll be talking, but whenever you feel most comfortable
    with doing the first shots, that's when we should do it.  You and
    Susan know your breed much better than I do.
    
    cin
    

    Jo's note got in before my last one, but I also record the same
    information on the health certificate that I create for each kitten.
    Date of vaccination, vaccine type, lot #, etc.  
    
    Karen, many of the pet food companies will provide you with "kitten
    kits" if you call and ask them.  These kitten kits have the health
    certificates in them with the spaces for the appropriate information.
    They also contain care booklets, food samples or bags to put the
    food in, pedigree forms, etc.  
    
    cin
    

    Have some new info about the FIP vaccine.  An article in Cat Fancy
    magazine this month indicates that the new vaccine is an intranasal
    vaccine.  Also, I have noticed that Smithkline Beacham is doing a lot
    of advertising for the vaccine now, so it must have hit the market.
    
    Okay, the other thing is that this months CFA Alamanac had the Winn
    Foundation Report in it and the Winn Foundation has awarded a grant to
    a vet who will study this vaccine.  Reprinted here without permission
    from the CFA Alamanac:
    
    EVALUATION OF A NEW COMMERCIAL FIP VACCINE - $14,720; Fred Scott, DVM
    Phd, Cornell University, Ithaca, NY.
    
    Feline Infectious Peritonitis (FIP) is a serious and life-threatening
    disease which affects all cats, and is particularly devastating in
    cattery populations.  Diagnostic tests are vague, no effective
    treatments exist, and vaccine research has been ongoing for over a
    decade in several laboratories here and abroad with mixed results.  A
    modified-live virus vaccine has recently been licensed in the United
    States for intranasal use in healthy cats to prevent the disease.  Many
    clinicians have questions and concerns about new vaccines released into
    the marked place when no independent research data is available.  This
    study will evaluate this vaccine using the manufacturer's recommended
    doses and age of vaccination.  Conclusions on the efficacy and safety
    will be published in a veterinary journal as soon as possible.
    
    *****
    
    I will follow up with any additional reports from the Winn Foundation
    when they appear.
    
    Jo