Conference misery::feline_v1

    It is more likely that Dewey was never completely free of the
    roundworms.  I am fairly certain that they are contagious through the
    litter box, so scooping twice a day is a good plan.
    
    From what I remember, roundworms are more difficult to treat than
    tapes, and may require a second worming.  Something to do with their
    life cycle.  I am a little foggy on this, since it has been a long time
    since I have had to deal with them.
    
    Anytime that you worm a cat you are putting a poison in their body, but
    in the case of roundworms, the consequences of not treating him are
    more serious than the risk of the medication.
    
    If you describe what you found in his vomit to the vet, he may give
    the treatment to you to administer rather than having to see Dewey and
    do a stool test.  This would save you some bucks.  
    
    Good luck,
    
    Jo

    Jo is correct about the cycle thing; Round worm worming only works at
    the time of the worms life cycle wen you see eggs or when it passes a
    worm. So, that means that the optimal time to bring thecat in to be
    wormed is immediatly after you've seen the worm. I know that when Alex
    did this I just scooped up the sample and sealed it in a baggie
    (squeezing out the air) and brought the sample into the vet that
    evening without an appointment. The vet had me bring Alex in the
    following morning and only charged me for a shot (no office visit or
    lab fee since he could see the worm).
    
    Deb

    Out of curiosity, what are roundworms and how do cats get them?  I've
    never had this problem with my cats.
    
    T
    

    I don't pretend to be the expert...but my experience with
    round worms is that we knew we had them when two of my strays
    got sick and threw one up. (hope noone is eating...) The ones
    I saw were approximately 1 inch long, flat, and white.  They
    actually remind me of a piece of Dental Floss....but they move.
    
    I hear Roundworms are caused by eating mice...etc.  I don't believe
    they have anything to do with fleas. (that's tapeworm) But they
    are pretty difficult to get rid of.    
    
    Someone please correct me if I'm wrong....
    
     Sandy

    Another way that roundworms can be contracted is by a cat coming 
    into contact with the feces of an infected cat.  That is why outdoor 
    cats are more prone to them than indoor cats.  Outdoor cats can find 
    the feces of others in gardens or other "communal" potty areas.
    
    This is a good argument for scooping your litter box at least once a
    day.
    
    Jo

    In my experience, roundworms look like spagetti and you may find
    them in feces or the cat may vomit them up depending on how bad
    the infestation is.  
    
    If you've never had any trouble with them, then your cats must
    be indoor only.
      Nancy

    When I first got TK he had a very bad roundworm infestation.  We
    treated him, but last night when I got home from work someone had
    thrown up near the front door and there was a long worm imbedded inside
    that looked like a piece of cooked spaghetti.  Yuck!  I had a feeling
    it was either from TK or Nikki and called the vet.  Told her I had some
    piperazine tabs in the house and could I administer them to the cats. 
    She said to go ahead and worm them.  Her feeling was that Kelsey and
    Murdock probably don't have them, and she doesn't feel that they could
    get them from the litterbox.  I do scoop the box at least 3X a day
    (removing all traces of feces and urine), so nothing is left around for
    the cats to step in.  The vet seemed pretty confident that Kelsey and
    Murdock don't have worms, but I can't help but feel it wouldn't hurt to
    worm them too.  She felt it necessary to only worm the two
    indoor/outdoor cats.
    
    I'm going to keep an eye out and probably do another fecal sample just
    to be safe.
    
    
    --Roberta
    

    Thanks for the info.  Yes, my cats are indoor only.  I have had
    experience with tapeworms and that was bad enough.  Yuch!
    
    T
    

    Yuck is right!!!   I won't give you the details on Bob, Jasmine,
    Christie and Dusty when we brought them in....................!
    

    I have a foster kitty who has been staying with me for a week while 
    recuperating from being spayed before going to a no-kill shelter. I 
    was warned that she might have worms. Sure enough, on Sunday I noticed 
    one of those vile things around her anus, and last night I saw two more. 
    So, she will have to be wormed. 

    She's staying in the guest room with the door closed to my other cats. 
    The room has wall-to-wall carpeting and what I'm wondering is, if the 
    worms drop off the cat (I'm sure I can't catch them all) will they just 
    die? Or is there a chance my cats could pick them up when they have 
    access to the room again if my ancient vacuum cleaner doesn't get them 
    all? As luck would have it, the carpet and the worms are about the same
    color. :-( How long can the worms live outside the cat's body? Is there 
    anything else I should watch out for or precautions I should take?

    Thanks,

    Linda

    Linda,
    
    Most likely what you are seeing is tapeworm segments.  Roundworms very
    rarely show up around the anus; when they do you can bet the
    infestation is very severe.
    
    Keeping the kitty locked in the room should be good control.  For
    tapes, they are passed by cats ingesting the segments, or from
    ingesting fleas.  If you vacuum really well when she leaves, your cats
    will be less likely to ingest a tapeworm segment from the carpet.
    
    If it is roundworms that she has, I would take it a step further and
    disinfect the carpet after she leaves.  Check with your vet on what to
    use.  I would probably use a bleach and water solution (diluted of
    course) and spray it lightly over the entire room.  But, that is me. 
    You may not want to risk using bleach on your carpet.  (I have done it
    with no ill effects)
    
    Jo

    RE: ancient vacuum

    If you are concerned about your vacuum not picking up real well, and
    you don't know anyone with a real good one with a "rug attachment" that
    you can borrow from, go to your local Taylor Rental or U-Haul any tool 
    rental agency and you will probably be able to rent one very inexpensively.

    Deb

when in doubt, rent a steam cleaning machine and clean the carpet after your
little guest is healthy and off to her new home.  That will take care of
any left over scent, and the heat will kill off any rug-resident parasites.
Of course, it will also wake up any flea eggs that are dormant in the carpet
waiting for summer...so be prepared with one of the flea/egg killer sprays
that you can spray directly on the carpet and dose the carpet well after
cleaning it.  Keep the door closed for a few days after the cleaning and
spraying...and then everything will be okay when you allow the cats back into
the "forbidden space".

    Thanks Jo, Deb, and Dian for the very helpful advice and information. 

    I'm not really up on my worm identification, but yes, I think they are 
    tapeworms.

    Hopefully, little Pudgette (as in "pudgy") didn't bring in any fleas. 
    She smelled like she got a bath at the vet's; I should have asked. She 
    looks very clean for being such a recent stray, and I haven't found any 
    signs of fleas on her. 

    All the carpeting in the house is due for a good cleaning so when this
    kitty leaves that would be a good time to do it. Only problem is, there
    may be other foster kitties after her. What I need is a room with 
    linoleum!

    Thanks again!

    Linda

    Oh god...I thought we were Roundworm free for awhile....but
    
    Poor Abby (momma kitty) had very bad diarhea last night and guess
    what...there was another D%#@ roundworm again.  The last time per
    Vets orders Abby and Dewey were treated for three weeks with the
    pills vs two.   These two cats were strays but have not been outside
    since we took them in...in November.    Do you think they keep comming 
    back...or are we just not getting rid of them?
    
    It gets so frustrating....my vet gave me a half year supply of Roundworm
    pills....but could it be possible that there not working?  Is the shot
    stronger or how about the banana stuff?
    
    I'm sooooooo sick of worms and I feel sooooo bad for my babies.
    
    Sandy
              

    Whjat kind of medicine are they getting Sandy?  I gave TK and Nik
    Piperazine tablets.  Round, white pills that can be repeated in 21
    days.  It is a series of 2 pills and it seems to have done the trick. 
    Actually, the last time the vet gave me piperazine the pills were blue
    and oval shaped.  Maybe the doseage was higher, cause that was when TK
    first joined us and he was loaded.  I got the white pills thru Foster &
    Smith.
    

Probably the worms were not completely eradicated the first time.  You have to
catch them at the right time, that is why they medicate twice for roundworms.
I would keep trying until they are gone.  I haven't ever had roundworms, but I
do keep a bottle of Nemex on hand and have occassionally used it to worm the
strays that I rescue.  Nemex can be purchased from Foster and Smith too.  It is
a liquid, and none of the strays have ever complained about the taste.  Most
have actually seemed to like the stuff. Go figure. :^)

Jo

    Nemex!  Thanks, Jo.  I was trying to remember the name, as my vet
    actually thinks this stuff is the best medicine to eradicate
    roundworms.  If I didn't already have the piperazine, she would have
    given me that.
    

    I'm not sure of the name of the pill (I'll look tonight) but they
    are the little round white ones.   The last dosage was one pill...
    wait seven days...another pill....wait seven more days ...and then
    the last pill.   My vet said this can be done up to five pills...
    but the last time he suggested trying three.   Gee...the good news
    is that I have learned out to "Pill" a cat real good!
    
    I just hate to keep deworming these guys every month...I'm sure
    the chemicals aren't real good for them...I know...but neither are
    the worms!   They are sooooooo ugly and squirmy!!!  Yuck!
    
    Maybe I'll call him and see if he knows anything about Nemex! 
    
    Sandy (and her wormy cat (s)????

I decided to look into the roundworm situation a bit more and try
and get some answers for you about how cats are reinfected.  According 
to Neils Pederson in his book "Feline Husbandry", roundworm eggs can
survive in the environment (outside the host) for several months or longer.
Cats are infected when they inadvertently consume the eggs that are shed 
into the environment.  This ingestion can occur if the eggs are licked off 
the paws during routine grooming, or if the cat hunts and eats infected 
rodents.  

As far as treatment goes, Dr. Pederson lists several drugs that are effective
including Piperazine, Dichlorvos (which is highly effective but has been 
associated with severe diarrhea in kittens), Fenbendazole, pyrantel pamoate
(Nemex), and Ivermectin.  He states that ivermectin given once sub-q has
also eliminated all egg shedding in infected cats.

Prevention would probably include isolation of the infected cat or cats, 
cleaning of the environment daily with a solution of bleach and water (1:32),
and medication.

Also, it is important to note that roundworms are one of the nasties that we
humans can get from our cats, and that children are particularly susceptible.
    
    It is also interesting to note that younger cats and kittens are more
    susceptible than older ones.  The incidence of infection seems to drop
    off rapidly once a cat reaches 2 years of age.
    
    Jo

    re: cats older than 2 years rarely getting roundworms...
    
    Jo,
    
    Is there any statement about whether roundworms are like
    coccidia, in that adult cats rarely *show* symptoms, but
    Momcats can transfer the organism <I forget if it is in utero,
    or via nursing, or both>?
    
    	Pennie

Pennie,

Yes, one of the main routes of infection is in utero and via nursing.  There is 
a whole lot of info in this book.  I consider it one of the best books that I
have in my Feline library.  I have been meaning to put in a review and just
haven't had the time.  

"In addition to being infected by eggs or encysted second-stage larvae, kittens
can be infected through nursing. Larval forms may be encysted in the tissues
of the queen as a result of an earlier primary infection.  For reasons that 
are not completely understood, pregnancy causes some of the encysted worms to
excyst and enter the bloodstream.  they then find their way to the mammary
glands and are secreted in the milk.  Trans-mammary infections is a continuous
phenomenon; larval ascarids are present in the milk throughout lactation, not 
just in colostrum.  Larvae ingested by the kittens while nursing develop in
the same manner as larvae acquired by eating infected rodents." Larval migration
through liver and lungs does not occur in cats infected with encysted worms--
encysted worms are the ones that the cat would get through eating infected 
rodents or from nursing)

If you want to know anything else, just ask.  I will type it in when I get the
time.

Jo

    Ah Jo!
    
    "If you want to know anything else just ask."
    
    Why thank you.  :-)
    
    Why did Willow-Willow need a sudden C-section last week?
    The surgeons at Angell just couldn't determine what went wrong.
    
    Heh heh heh

I think that Willow had to have a c-section because the kitty Gods decided that
things had been going much to smoothly over at Meowsky as of late.  ;^D

Anything else I can do for you??

Jo

re: human infestation

the reason given for children being more vulnerable to infestation than adult
humans is more to habits of dress than to physical characteristics (according
to a book I have at home) - another words, if you run around bare-footed alot,
you are probably as vulnerable as a child to infestation of the cyst form
of roundworm.  The roundworm is also ingested when small children "taste" their
environment ...something that most adults stop at some stage of their
development....8^}

Seriously, it was considered an endemic enough problem in the area around 
Houston, Texas that I lived in as a teenager that all people were warned to
NOT GO BAREFOOT outside at all.  We were also warned to make sure that
children did not drop food onto the ground and then pick it up and eat it.

Interestingly enough, the primary vector for the roundworm was considered
to be cats and dogs that were allowed to roam at will, becoming infested
by encountering the scat of diseased animals and then spreading the problem
via their own scat.

    Thanks Jo for providing all that information.  Well as of last
    night we have confirmed that atleast 2 of my cats have roundworms
    again. (Abby and Dewey...poor Dewey he catches everything!)  
    Well that explains how they can keep getting reinfected.  There
    are probably eggs all over my rugs. Oh god.....now what can I
    use to clean my rugs.  (I don't think I can use bleach???)
    
    It is so hard to isolate cats when you have seven.  We're going to
    have to put them in the "bad room" one at a time and try to get
    poop samples.  Right now we are monitoring all poops.  I have 
    poop guard duty and my hubby has cleanup duty.   Fun fun....
    because with Roundworms you also get diarhea.  You should have saw
    the box yesterday it looked like an explosion.  
    
    Well we already talked to the vet...and we plan on bringing the
    two confirmed roundworm cats to see him on Saturday. (We already
    gave them one pill)  I also want to have a good conversation about how 
    the Hell to get rid of them for good....I am So sick of them and can
    just imagine how my babies feel.
    
    Again thanks..the info was great.  Now I have a little more knowledge
    which will help me discuss it with my vet. 
    
    Sandy
                                 

    Sandy, you can use bleach on your rugs with no harm coming
    to them. Use it deluted like Jo says, 1-32, and use a terry
    towel (cheap one) in the bleach/water solution wringing it
    out some and use huge sweeping motions over the rug and then
    rinse the terry towel and repeat until you have done the whole
    rug. If you have wall to wall it will take time but it will do
    the job.
    
    Barbara & her 3M's
    

    Wow...I have Wall to Wall carpeting in 4 out of 5 rooms...and
    my rooms are very large.  Instead of doing this by hand....could
    I possibly rent one of those rug cleaners and put the deluted 
    bleach solution in there.    Would that do the trick????
    
    Sandy
    
    

I do just what Barbara explained at my own house.  The bleach dilution hasn't 
had a harmful effect on the color of my rugs, or anything like that.

I think that if it were me, I would take the two confirmed roundworm cats and 
put them in a bathroom that has no carpet.  Give them a litter pan and food and
water to share.  Every day I would swab the bathroom floor with the diluted 
bleach solution, and empty and clean the litter pan with the diluted bleach.
Keep them totally separated from the other cats and any rooms with carpet until
they get a clean bill of health from the vet.  According to my book, if the
cats are coughing up roundworms, then they have the type of infection where
the worms migrate throughout the body, affecting many organs, including the 
lungs and liver.  This type of infection is much more serious and harder to
eradicate.

You will have to be religious about treating them in order to rid yourself
of these pests once and for all.  

Oh, and I would also clean every litter pan in the house with bleach and water
when you put the two in isolation.

Jo

    Thanks....gee I have my work cut-out for me.  My "bad room" (that's
    where they go when there being brats) does not have a rug and already
    has a litter.    But the floor is wood...(it not real good and needs to 
    be sanded)  but what will bleach do to that.   The bathroom would be
    ideal because the floor is tile...but it's real small and boring!
    
    I still feel that I could possibly have eggs in my rugs...so I do want
    to clean them.  Would the rent machine work as good as doing it by
    hand????  
    
    Sandy
    

If you rent one of those machines, be sure to carefully control the amount of
bleach that you add to the water, since the machine will use total saturation 
of the carpet.  If you get the steam cleaner kind of machine, the hot steam may
be enough to kill the eggs.  Neils says, in his chapter on cattery design that 
steam cleaning is one of the best ways to clean a cattery in order to prevent
disease. (Neils and I are now on a first name basis :^})  Of course, Neils ideal
cattery has no carpets, and all the floors have drains in them for the excess 
hot water to run out through. :^D  Guess again Neils!! :^D

Jo

    Sandy, I wouldn't use one of those machines as they soak the
    rug too much. The bleach won't hurt if applied the way Jo and 
    I have done it.
    
    The worms are not going to give up without a fight. I see no
    problem with putting them in the room with the wooden floor
    but use a mop and the bleach solution on it everyday.
    
    You have your work cut out for you.
    
    Barbara & her 3M's

I know that the bathroom would be small and boring, but you could give them
a couple of washable toys to keep them occupied.  Also, the bathroom would be
ideal because it is small.  Less area to have to swab down every night.  The
life cycle of the roundworm from ingestion to eggs can take only ten days, so
it is important that you keep the environment completely clean for the duration.
Otherwise, they could just keep ingesting and reinfecting in a continuous cycle
during their treatment.

Also, take comfort in the fact that cats spend a lot of their time sleeping, 
and don't need much room for that. :^)

Jo

    You should have saw my husband's expression last night when I went
    home and shared your suggestions around cleaning all rugs with
    bleach/water solution to try and get rid of all roundworms eggs.  
    It was priceless.....
    
    But now that we think of it...I'm going to have to wash all blankets,
    bedspreads, afgans, sofa's, chairs, kitty condos...and so on.
    We decided that since we had so much to clean...we might ask for
    proffesionals to come in and steam clean all the rugs.   Now will
    the cleaning solution they normally use kill the eggs...or will
    I need to ask them to use the bleach solution.   I guess we start spring 
    cleaning early!
    
     Sandy                                            

    The temperature of the water they use should be sufficient to kill the
    roundworm eggs.  If you are still uncertain, you could put the bleach
    solution in a spray bottle and then spray a mist onto the carpet when
    they are finished. :^)
    
    I can picture your husband's reaction!  :^)
    
    Jo

    I am going to be bombing the house for fleas.  If my cats have
    roundworm, will this kill any eggs that are hanging around?  I do have
    to treat for tapeworm.

    Well what a weekend we had.  It started Saturday morning when
    I sat down and developed a "worm chart" which listed each one
    of my cats, showed how many times they were dewormed, when they
    were dewormed and the dosage of each deworming.  Well off to the
    vets we went with two of them.  The facts we knew so far were:
    Out of seven cats, two were definitley confirmed having worms
    and two other had a bad case of diahrea.  Well we had a very
    long conversation with our vet and developed a plan.  Gee it 
    sounds real close to all your suggestions!!!!    One thing to 
    note...my Vet said he was losing faith in some pills for cats. 
    (that's why we're trying the liquid)  He said he had a case where he
    was treating the cat for URI with a pill a day...well at the
    end of the week the cat got sick..and three up 5 semi whole pills.
    I'm not saying pills aren't good...but if you do not see an
    improvement with the condition contact your vet.
    
    It starts with a new medicine (Liquid Nemex -2), all cats were
    dewormed Sunday morning and will be done again on Thursday.  Then 
    we start  to clean...each rug is wiped with a solution of bleach/water, 
    each rug is then steamed cleaned.  The solution is also used on all floors,
    counter tops, sofas, chairs, litters, dishes,and kitty condos, 
    baskets etc.   We did seven loads of wash (bleach added) for 
    blankets, bedspreads, afghans, and all kitty cushions.
    
    Each kitty litter will be totally cleaned out every day and washed with
    the solution for the next 10 days.  We will vacumn every night and
    possibly use the solution one more time next weekend.  The only
    thing we didn't do was the cellar...(that's next weekends project)
    but the cellar will be off-limits to the cats until it's cleaned.
    
    Well my house smells so clean....rugs are like new....and I'm dead
    tired.  My body aches.....they better appreciate this.
    Thanks so much for the knowledge...it really helped when
    talking to the vet.   This better work!!!!!
    
    Sandy

    Will you guys come clean my house next? :-)
    
    This throwing up whole pills business reminds me of calcium
    pills for women.  Some brands are absolutely useless because
    they don't "breakdown".  There's some test, like putting a calcium
    pill in a glass of something (vinegar?) for 30 minutes to find out
    if it disintegrates.  Wonder if something like this could be
    worked out for the worm pills.  (Maybe the vinegar or whatever
    needs to be used is a function of the calcium, though....)
                                 

	The vet didn't give me pills last time, ge gave me these granule 
	things which you sprinkle on food ( I was really surprised when the 
	ate it!). Well, they won't stay in the stomach, I just hope they don't
	go all the way through!

	There's also a worm injection - much more foolproof if a little more 
	expensive. If this dosen't work (and I hope it does) try the injections.

	Heather                                 

    You won't believe it.............. After all we did this
    weekend (.37) to try and get rid of Round worms...one of my babies
    pooped out a worm last night that was alive.   Now after the deworming 
    I was expecting dead worms...not ones that were alive.  
    
    We used Nemex-2...obviously it does not kill them immediately!  this
    worm was pretty big!!  Hopefully the second treatment will do the trick.
    After monitoring the litter...we have confirmed 4 of my babies did
    have round worms.
    
    Sandy   (will they ever go away)
    
    
                                    

    Just got off the phone with the Vet and he said that with a bad
    case of roundworms it is very common that the first treatment
    did not kill them all.   We give them another treatment tomorrow
    morning...and he is even suggesting a third treatment next week.
    
    It seems like alot of chemicals to me.  
    
    Sandy  (go away worms!!!!!)

    Sandy, it took 3 doses of piperazine to clear up TK's worms when he
    first joined the household 3 years ago.  Those pesky little suckers can
    really be resistant to medicine!  Just keep at it.  TK was so bad that
    he wouldn't go into the litterbox to defecate; he used the basement
    floor.  I didn't see the worms in the stool; the vet found traces of
    eggs when he tested the feces.  He was throwing them up tho.  It was
    gross!
    
    --R.
    

    Could it be that what you saw this time wasn't a roundworm, but a
    tapeworm?  Just a thought.  Usually you won't find adult roundworms in
    the stool unless the infestation is really, really, bad.  So, looks
    like another worming will be in order.  I think that the risk of the
    chemical is not nearly as great as the risk of the worms themselves. 
    Neils says in his book that there have been documented cases of cats
    dying from severe roundworm infestation.  Keep on the treatments.  You
    will get rid of them.  And once you do, you will be the roundworm
    expert and we will all look to you for advice when one of our cats gets
    them. :^)
    
    Jo

    There I was thinking `I'm glad it's not me'...ha, ha, ha
    
    Nippa has round worms too....yech!  I haven't seen her throw any up
    (or from the other end either).  I'll be watching this note....
    
    Michele & Nippa
    

    Gee I never wanted to be known as the expert on Roundworms but...
    I guess I have gained alot of knowledge.  Boy I couldn't even
    look at a poop without getting sick...now I stare at it to see
    if there is movement. 
    
    Poor Nippa....hopefully it's not a severe case and a few treatments
    will help.   Michele...you laughed....Now start bleach cleaning!
                                                           
    Jo...I truly believe atleast 4 of the cats do have a severe case
    of roundworms.   These 4 have been treated on and off since last
    November.  But when I think about it...Dewey is the stray from
    the junkyard, Abby is the stray from DLB9, and Chloe and Agnes
    (bros and sister) are the two kittens we stole from my neighbor
    who let them out when they were one months old and haven't let
    them in since.   All 4 are under a year old and lived outside
    for quite some time.    
    
    Well here are some signs that I have been seeing in these four
    cats.  I spoke to the vet and he confirmed that they can all be
    related to having worms.
    
       o Diarhea - sometimes can't even make it to the litter box.
       o Farting - Wow...knocks you over
       o Dull coat - Noticed this in a few
       o Sneezing - I don't understand this one...unless the worms are
                    in the lungs???
       o Throwing up - sometimes with worms
       o Eating alot - Eat, poop, scoop, eat, poop, scoop
       o They still have loads of energy....and are still brats!
    
    We did another deworming this morning on all seven....and have
    been changing/cleaning the litters every night.  
    
    Oh well...they best be gone soon!
    
    Sandy  (

    The roundworms can migrate into the liver and lungs.  That is why you
    can sometimes get upper respiratory symptoms and sometimes liver
    problems or symptoms.  Keep up with the cleanings, and that along with
    the medication should take care of your problem. It won't be long now.
    
    Jo

    Shhhhhh....be quite...I don't want to say this too loud....but 
    
        We have not seen a worm...dead or alive...in six days!!
    
    
    One more round of treatments...one more bleach cleaning...and only
    a few more nights of totally cleaining the litter box.   Hopefully
    I can say we will be wormless!!
    
    Sandy

    ugh,,,ugh,,,ugh....there back...again!!!  Two of my little ones
    has worms again.....and we have confirmed they are roundworms!! I
    can't believe it...I am so frustrated!!  We were wormless for
    just about 1 1/2 month.  
    
    Now....I'm confused and don't know if I should seek the advise of
    another vet!   I normally trust my vets opinion 100%...but I just
    don't understand why the treatment is not getting rid of the
    problem.  We have tried the pills, liquid, cleaning with bleach,
    scooping every hour, totally cleaning the litters (with bleach
    solution), washed everything in sight in the solution ...etc.
    
    The last time we treated the four little ones.....every week
    for 5 weeks with Nemex-2.  My other three are older and they
    were treated for 3 weeks....they never showed signs of worms
    to begin with.  The older 3 are the ones that spend alot
    of time outside...the little ones go out once a day when
    we are outside with them.   
    
    Are worms really that hard to get rid of....I've always
    owned cats and never saw such a problem.  Based on your
    knowledge...is there a different type of medicine around
    that my Vet might not know of!  My vets advise this time
    was to deworm them with Nemex - 2 again....and go back
    to cleaning, scooping...etc!
    
    Your opinins...could keep me sane!  I just dont' understand!
    
    Sandy                       
    
    

Sandy, 

if your cats are going outside, there is a good chance that they are 
getting reinfected outside.  This may be something that you will just have to
keep treating them for.

Jo

    We had this problem with our dog. He was being reinfected on
    his strolls in the woods to "be a good boy."  We even put a mask
    like the doctors wear in the operating room. Finally we figured
    he was licking them off his feet. The people who had the dog that
    must have been the carrier finally moved and we sprayed a huge
    area in the woods where Sebastian went. Finally after 2 1/2 years
    he was round/hook worm free. Strange the cats never did get them.
    
    I agree with Jo, you cats are no doubt picking them up outside
    somewhere and that will continue as long as they go out.
    
    Nasty critters......
    
    Barbara

    Well...I believe the only solution will be is to make them indoor
    kitties.....but I'm not too sure that will go over big with the
    cats or my husband!   We spent two years looking for a house that
    would be the last house on a dead-end street...just for the kitties!
    
    But for the time being....Barbara did you use the bleach solution
    spray outside.   I kind of know where their outdoor kitty litter is...
    so maybe if I spray that section I might be able to control them 
    somewhat!    I know they can still get them from eating those
    nasty rodents!
    
    I guess this is something I have to put up with...if they go outside.
    But what I don't understand....is my 3 big ones go outside, my sisters
    4 go outside...but they don't ever have the problem.  Do the younger
    cats get it easier?????   
    
    Thanks...back to cleaning!!
    
    Sandy

    Sandy we used a spray and some kind of powered mixture we got
    at the feed store. It has lime in it I remember that. Our vet
    called the feed store and talked to them and they put it to one
    side and we went in and bought it.
    
    Sorry, I don't remember the name of either the spray or the powder.
    The powder we spread with a shovel, after we had sprayed the ground.
    
    Keeping the kitties in for awhile might just break the cycle and
    the worms/eggs outside will die. (This was obviously impossible
    with the dog.)
    
    Barbara

    The cats may not be reinfecting themselves from their outdoor "litter"
    area, they may be finding the feces of stray cats when they scratch in
    the dirt.  I think that since you can't control their outdoor
    environment without building them an enclosure, you may have to just
    keep medicating the cats.  Does the vet realize that they go outside? 
    He may feel a bit better if he knows that there is a chance that the
    problem isn't that the medication didn't work.  Good luck to you.
    
    Jo

    My vet is aware that they go outside...and he says he feels
    the medication is killing them...but they are being reinfected.
    He said I should use the Nemex 2 every month.
    
    This winter they kept getting reinfected and the four little ones
    never went outside...that's when the vet thought the eggs were
    in my house.  So that's why we used the bleach/water solution
    on everything.
    
    Why are some cats affected by this and not others.  My three
    bigger guys....have never showed any symptom and there the
    ones that won't use a litterbox and spend quite a bit of
    time outside.
     
    Sandy