Conference misery::feline_v1

    Those prices are about equivalent to other purebreds around here.
    
    I first saw York Chocolates in RI last year.  They are very pretty
    cats and I was surprized to find that they have Siamese in their
    lineage.
      Nancy

    I would be willing to bet that the Siamese is where they got the 
    chocolate gene.  I wouldn't exactly subscribe to the theory that these
    cats are a mutation or a new breed.  More likely, a self chocolate cat
    showed up in a litter, then another, and the owner decided to propagate
    them.  They would breed true to their color when bred to each other
    since chocolate is a dilute recessive gene.
    
    I know I sound snarky, but I just think that it is too easy to start
    new breeds these days.  Some associations will recognize just about
    anything as a new breed if it increases their ranks. {this is just my
    opinion}
    
    Jo

they sound beautiful....but, I'm a little concerned about the extremely
limited gene pool - I feel they may become cats with real health problems
unless they are successfully out-bred to bring in new genetic base to
the breed.  I'm not a scientist, but it seems necessary to do this in order
to keep healthy animals....isn't it?

    In reply to .2, I agree with you Jo.
    
    I have been away from kitty type things for many years and have just
    been looking for a Siamese mix. I found out that you can no longer just
    get a part Siamese accident - everything is a new breed.  In the early
    70's, I got the most beautiful solid black half-Siamese with light
    green eyes.  His mother was a lilac point and father God only knows.
    
    He was the most intelligent, affectionate and devoted cat I have ever
    seen. I really wanted to find another cat of this type, but found out
    that now they are called ebony orientals and cost $150.  Then the other
    day I met a breeder with two blue orientals up for a adoption for $35.
    She was trying to start a new breed of lilac orientals, but decided
    that the cats were not up to the standards and is finding them homes.
    
    The lucky result for me is that I'm getting just what I want, but I'm
    wondering how common this practice is of breeders trying to make a new
    breed and then deciding they don't like the result.  
    
    I'd like to hear comments on this if any of you have them. I really am
    curious is because a few weeks ago the Nashua Humane Society had three
    year old cats come in. They were all gold and very slender and oriental
    with incredibly short hair. (They have all been adopted, by the way.)
    They seemed like such fine cats and then at the cat show I saw one that
    was exactly like the ones at the humane society.  Then I wondered, was
    someone making a new breed and then decided that they didn't want them
    and dumped them at the humane society? I think this is a disgraceful
    practice and hope it does not happen very often.
    
    Anyone have any comments?
    
    Signe

    re: yorks - from what I've seen, they do NOT have a siamese head or
    bodytype.  More Maine-coonish, I think.  So Jo may be right about 
    where the color came from, but if they were strick siamese they would
    look like a chocolate Balinese or Javinese. (I would think)
    
    re: .4 - My definition of "responsible" breeder means that the
    breeder does not DUMP his/her cats or kittens on a shelter.  So I
    can only speak for myself and other breeders that I know.  I am
    not aware of the practice of dumping dissapointing new-breed attempts
    on shelters but that doesn't really mean anything.  More likely what
    happened is that someone's purebred got out when she was in heat
    and the results were what ended up at the shelter.  It is entirely
    possible to get a kitten that looks like a purebred who's parentage
    is mixed.  That's part of what the "apparent purebred class" is for.
    Also, since cats are "induced ovulators" they can have kittens from
    different fathers in the same litter.  So again, if a purebred female
    got out when in heat after breeding with another purebred, it would
    be possible to have purebred and mixed breed kittens in the same
    litter.  None of them could be sold as purebreds.
      Nancy

    In response to .4:  The Oriental IS a breed. I won't argue how it got
    here, but, there are MANY colors.   Lilac or Lavendar are included in
    this.  If someone lead you to believe they were trying to CREATE a so
    called lavender/breed they are full of you know what.  I believe the
    Oriental to be a beautiful use of genetics.  You have the wonderful
    personality and body type of the Siamese and the singualr coat color of
    the American Shorthair.
    If anyone has questions about Orientals, I would be happy to discuss
    them in another note or off line.
    Karen, Ruby, Stinky, Wing and Goldie

    Sounds like Panther and Eirene are apparent Ebony Orientals. Please
    don't tell them! They are hard enough to live with just knowing that
    they have Siameese blood flowing through their veins.
    
    Deb

    In order to utilize the siamese gene it is not necessary for a breeder
    of Yorks to use a purebred siamese.  The siamese gene is recessive and
    is widely interspersed in the domestic cat population.
    
    Gloria Stephens, a TICA judge once said something to me that made a lot
    of sense.  Too bad her association doesn't agree.  She said that you
    should be able to tell what breed a cat is by feeling it's body with
    your eyes closed.  She felt that there were too many cats being
    recognized as new breeds based soley on colors or patterns.  She felt
    that a new breed had to have a bone and body structure that set it
    apart from all other breeds.  I have to say that I tend to agree with
    this.
    
    Jo