Conference misery::feline_v1

    
    Jana, I would ask the owner first about placing "her" pets.  Granted,
    she may not take proper care of them, but they still belong to her. 
    Maybe she will change the way she is treating them if you explain your
    concerns about their care. 
    
    They sound cute.  Let us know what happens to them.

A negligent "owner" needs education first...then the cats should just
"disappear" if she does not respond positively.  I would suggest a very
non-threatening approach such as suggesting that you might help her
create a warm dry shelter for the cats because domestic cats aren't really
cold weather animals and the winter weather is very hard on them.  A
wooden box just large enough for the cats to snuggle into together, turned 
toward the house enough to prevent wind getting a direct path into it, and
placed on the "protected side of the house would go a long way to alleviating
their discomfort.  I might also offer her some "extra" canned food and explain
that you noticed the one cat really liked it - and see if she responds with any
concerns about feeding the food - she may feel it isn't healthy for the cat
which can lead to a discussion of what your vet tells you...etc.  If she just
doesn't care, then the animal's welfare must come before any so-called rights
of ownership.  Humans do not have the right to keep any living creature in
an unhealthy environment just because they are too lazy to do the right thing.
Ownership stops when abuse begins and I consider it abuse if an animal cannot
get warm and dry when it needs to or enough food when it is hungry.  Winters
in the USA are simply too harsh for cats to stay out - if not due to cold, then
certainly due to the rain and wind.

    Just because they are outside dosen't necessarly mean they are
    `neglected'.  Just because the owner won't feed canned doesn't 
    give you the right to feed *her* cats and assume they are neglected.
    
    Correct me if I'm wrong, but from your note, you haven't *proved* to
    me that these cats are neglected.  IMHO, I don't think you have the
    right to go about `placing' this persons cats.
    
    
    

    I can understand both points of view here (the base noter and
    Michelle's).
    
    T.K. and Nikki are outside a lot of the time.  This is by their choice,
    and unless the weather is extremely cold or inclement I let them stay
    outdoors.  Since I work 7 minutes from home I have the option to go
    check on them if the weather turns nasty by lunchtime (or if I hear of
    nasty weather approaching I go home and let them in during lunch so I
    can have peace of mind during the afternoon).
    
    I leave food out on the back deck but a few times in the past I have
    come home and found food for them on the front step, which I did not
    leave.  In addition, I have had a few folks in our complex make
    comments to me that so-and-so thinks I neglect my cats.  They assume
    that because T.K. and Nikki are outside so much that I don't care about
    them.  I assure those who ask that I love my cats very much and by no
    means force them to stay outside.  They can come and go as they please.
    
    This morning, the two buffoons finally realized that the weather has
    turned colder and I found them curled up on the loveseat downstairs
    fast asleep!  But, if they had chosen to be outside I would have gone
    home during lunch hour and let them in.
    
    
    --Roberta
    
    

 
    Not truly knowing if they are neglected...I suggest that the
    least you should do is continue to provide food for them.  We
    also have a cat in my neighborhood who comes to visit morning
    and night for a bite to eat.  This cat loves the outdoors and
    even when you try to bring her in....she spits and growls.  I
    can't truly say the owner neglects her.....At least I know
    she is being fed properly by me.
    
    Sandy (Tamba, Poco, Barkley, Agnes, Chloe, and Dewey!)
    

	Don't feed them but keep an eye out for them.

	I was worried that my older cat wasn't eating much, I took him to the
	vets, who said nothing was wrong with him.

	I found out later, that my neigbours were feeding him, and I've asked
	them to stop.

	If you feed them all the time, they'll get into the habit of coming to
	you, and won't eat at home.

	My cats also like the outdoors, but have a cat-flap so they can come
	in anytime they like. The number of times I've seen them rolling in
	the snow, and chasing leaves in the pouring rain, is endless.

	It hasn't done them any harm, and they enjoy themselves outdoors.

	So, I would stop feeding them, so they get used to eating at home,
	and going back home.

	If you are really worried, just keep an eye out for them, and if they 
	begin to look malnourished, then re-evaluate the situation.

	Heather

    My neighbor's cat drops by in the morning about 3 times a week for
    a snack of canned food.  I know he's not neglected in the least and
    I've informed my neighbor that if they ever have to put Goliath on
    a special diet to be sure and let me know.  You might want to do
    the same for these kitties.  I don't see anything wrong with feeding
    them as long as the owner knows about it.
    
    Besides, it gives you a chance to chat about cat care and get more
    information as to whether or not these cats are neglected.  Visual
    appearance should provide a good clue.  
    
    I also see nothing wrong with providing shelter for these cats.  If
    the owner is letting them in when they want to come in then they'll
    probably never need it.  If the owner isn't, you'll have the peace
    of mind of knowing they have a sheltered spot to go to.  
    
    Then, just watch and gather information.
      Nancy DC
    

    I also have a cat that visits me for food and attention (besides Grey
    the Stray).  She is a beautiful long-haired grey tiger.  She visits two
    or three times a week and feels very comfortable coming into my porch
    to beg for food.  I know that she has a home and is well-cared for but
    she likes the added attention and food that she gets at mine.  Black
    Beauty also has a home now but still comes over for food and attention
    a few times a week.
    
    We can never assume that an animal is being mis-treated without proof. 
    Maybe the two cats just like the added attention and food that you
    supply.  Maybe the owner is a good person and just doesn't see what she
    is doing as abuse.  Maybe you can talk *kitty talk* with her and let
    her know your concerns.  
    
    Besides, you can't just take an animal that belongs to someone else,
    and give it to a new owner.  Isn't that considered *cat-napping*??
    
    I really think talking to the owner is the best solution at this time.
    
    Sandi, mom to 4 kittys, 1 dog and 1 stray and all the neighborhood
    drop-ins.
    
    

    I also have a "visitor".  However, the condition she 
    was in first led me to believe she was a stray.  Dirty,
    undernourished, to the point where the offering of a
    plate of dry food was rewarded by watching with horror(?)
    a cat try to swallow dry food without chewing.  I replaced
    the dry with canned and also put down a plate of fresh
    water.  She comes every evening (sometimes in the morning,
    too, on weekends, smart girl! And her hours tell me she is 
    an outdoor cat and not let in at all.  She has come at 
    3:00am, 5:00am, 11:00pm, etc.)
    Come to find out, she belongs to one of the neighbors.
    I have no intention of telling this neighbor what I
    think of her, talking to her would only make me want to
    strangle the uncaring b****!   She's not ignorant, just
    doesn't give a hoot!  They don't care for any of their
    pets....they even had to get rid of a dog after it turned
    mean due to their abuse.  So I feed her.  And if she chooses
    to stay, I will set her up in the barn.
    
    L-
    

    When Jesse used to visit us I, too, noticed that he was out at
    all hours and in all kinds of weather.  I had no idea if he was
    an unwanted stray or just an outdoor cat.  When he showed up with
    a foot injury I put antibiotics in his food and kept an eye out
    for signs that someone was caring for him.  I saw none.  That's
    when I decided to take care of him myself.  He was pretty 
    neglected and had more serious problems too - like badly infected
    ears.  If he did have an owner, I don't care - whoever it was 
    obviously didn't care about him.  
    
    I strongly suspect, tho, that he had no home.
      
    I agree with .9 - Do what YOU think is best.  You're the one who
    has to look at herself in the mirror every morning.
      
      Nancy DC

Sorry, I have been out of my office for last few days so that I did not
have a chance to read notes.

Yes, I agree with all of you. There is sometimes very hard to say if the
owner neglects his/her pets or not. The most of cats love to go out
because inside is a boredom and outside can be found a lot of excitement.
I have two cats, the older one (8 years old) goes outside only if the door is
opened, and the younger (2 years old tomcat) that loves to go out, no
matter if is rain or snow, to explore nearby bushes and a small pond.  He
is much unlike than most cats I've ever known. He enjoys everything what
usually cats hate (rain, water, snow, swamp). As you can see, he also
spends a lot of time outside. But he can comes home any time he wants
because I never let him go out during night or if I have to leave a house.

Anyway, perhaps someone has talked to that lady before me. I have been
keeping eyes on those poor things. They are out all day but at night
I could've seen several times her kids took them in. I do not how long it
would last. They come for food every day but, especially at morning, they
are so hungry as before. Well, many of you would say, they are OK now. But
I still feel they would need more attention. I think it is not right if the
cat is looking for a bite in the garbage. They have also never seen the
vet.

For instance, Blackie (she is very cute and she knows how to get to your
heart) wanted to get to my house yesterday night. I let her in for a while.
She was not too hungry but she wanted to stay in a warm and dry
room. I live in a complex of townhouses and the cats have no chance to find
hidden places such as sheds. I keep a little shelter in front of my house
but it is already occupied by a young black tomcat that has been left
behind by a 'loving' owner. It is another case which has to be solved. I've
fed him almost for 4 months but he was always very shy and I could have not
even touched him. Lately, he becomes more friendly even he let me rub his
head. I think the severe weather caused he has overcome a fear so that I
hope that I would be able to take him to the vet who promised to replaced
him.

Thank to you all for taking time to discuss this problem and also for
your suggestions. I just want to tell you for myself, I still believe those
cats would deserve to get more loving home than they do now. 

Jana and spoiled Pajda & Bob

    Jana - you are a special person to care so much.  
      Nancy DC