Conference misery::feline_v1

    Sue,
    
    There are differences between stray cats and feral cats.  It sounds to
    me as though you are dealing with a feral cat.  A lot of strays have
    had and were used to human contact at an earlier time of their life and
    adapt rather readily to a kind person who wants to help.  Feral cats
    are those that were born in the wild and raised with other cats,
    receiving no human contact whatsoever.  These are the toughies.  And to
    complicate things even further, there are cats who did have human
    contact but in an abusive form.  Some never seem to come out of their
    frightened state.
    
    I have a formal feral cat, Nikki, who was tamed by the humane society
    volunteers prior to me adopting him.  He doesn't trust any other humans
    besides myself and my husband, and it took him a VERY LONG time to warm
    up to Dana - almost a year.  He is just now getting around to trusting
    my neighbor, also the cat sitter when we are away.
    
    I feel it is imperative that you get momcat to the vet to be spayed. 
    If she is pregnant and early into her pregnancy it is best to abort
    the litter rather than taking on the responsibility of helping both she
    and her kittens.
    
    A friend of mine took a stray/feral cat out of a dumpster in Boston. 
    She had been put in a box with her two kittens and left there to die. 
    My friend was never able to tame the momcat, no matter how hard she
    tried.  She worked with her for an entire year, using several methods
    recommended in this notesfile.  But, this cat was determined to hate
    humans for the rest of her life.
    
    I think your idea of confinement to a small area or Tokyo cage is a
    good start.  I have also learned that eye contact is sometimes
    threatening, and it is best to sit on the floor at their level and
    gradually reach out your hand to touch a leg or a paw, not their head
    or face.  You don't want to raise your hand to her, but slide it over
    and talk softly while doing so.  Any sudden or threatening moves will
    scare her off.
    
    Good luck to you.  It's very nice of you to want to help this cat.
    
    
    --Roberta
    

    
       It is very important when approaching a cat that does not trust you
    yet,  to not make any  moves which would be perceived as threatening.
    NEVER go for the top of the cat, for example, to pat the head or back.
    Get down on the floor, and put your hand on the floor, palm up, for
    the cat to inspect.  I have always found that talking, and chirruping
    is always appreciated as well. I'm sure you have already tried food.
    If she accepts your food, that's one step in the right direction.
    
                             good luck!   Denise  

    Pussycat was feral, and took alomost a year to calm down to housecat
    stage. but was it worth it.  There was never a more loving cat.  A
    major step forward was when the vet gave him a shot of some hormone(?)
    whose name began with P I think.  I had previously had him altered,
    but this extra shot (it was a female hormone, I think) made the
    difference in calming him down significantly.  The shot didn't have to
    be repeated.
    
    p.s. a heavy denim jacket will protect your arms and torso on vet
    trips in the meantime.
    

    Patience and love.  You're doing a wonderful thing and don't doubt
    that for a second.  If you left her outside she'd continue to have
    kittens that would most likely suffer and die after a short lifetime.
    I came across a dead kitten yesterday on my walk and my walking buddy
    theorized that it was probably from the feral cats in the MRO complex.
    If nothing else, by getting her spayed you are preventing needless
    suffering.
    
    Give it alot of time.  Keep her in a small area -she'll feel more
    secure and start to regard the room as her territory.  It took us
    a year to tame Jesse (a stray we were feeding outside).  And don't
    hesitate for a second to ask for advice here.
      Nancy C
    

Thanks for your replies.  I have another idea about what to do to help 
this cat.  I have two cats of my own (who are being cared for by my 
parents right now).  They have met momma cat and sniffed each other, and 
seem like they get along okay (no fights have erupted).  In fact, my 
parents seem to think that momma felt a little more relaxed with them 
around.  I'm wondering if I should bring them home to be with her.  Of 
course, I wouldn't do this until I was sure she has a clean bill of health.

What do you think of this idea?  Or should I go ahead and get a cage for
her (what is a Tokyo cage?), and leave her in that for a while?  Or 
should I rush her to the vet to get her spayed?  Also, as I said in .0,
she is much fatter than when I saw her last.  How far along is a cat in
pregnancy before she starts showing?  I'm just wondering if it is already
too late to abort the kittens.

Thanks again!
Sue

      It does take a LONG time sometimes before they will get to the point
    where they trust people. A friend of mine has a feral male who took
    over two years beofre anyone could touch him. He hung around and ate,
    used box etc..mostly because he'd fallen in love with one of their
    other cats...
    
      Now he lets their baby pet him, and the adults are "allowed" to pet
    him, but not to pick him up...
    
      Patience is key...
    JM

    Gold stars for you, Susan, for your kindess in befriending this poor 
    kitty! What does she look like? Do you have a name for her yet?

    I would not assume the worst case, that she is/was feral and may never
    be tamed, but I would consider that possibility, and realize that even
    if this is not the case, taming could take longer than you originally 
    thought. 

    Although it probably seems like an eternity to you, five days is really 
    not a very long time. Who knows what she went through before she showed 
    up at your parents' house. She may have very good reasons for fearing 
    humans. There's no way to tell in advance how long taming could take or 
    how much she will change. If you have the desire, the time, and the 
    patience, why not go for it? Your rewards may exceed your expectations.
    There are lots of heartwarming stories in Feline and elsewhere about 
    people who have succeeded with rescue cases.

    You may have to break your major goals down into tiny, tiny ones. 
    For example, instead of setting your sights on being able to pet her 
    in x days, aim for her being able to look at you without hissing, with
    no time frame expectation. Then move on to the next mini-goal.

    You don't mention where you're keeping her (in a room, basement, run of 
    the house?). I would put her in a room by herself so she has her own 
    space. I wouldn't put her in a cage; she needs to have a safe place, 
    maybe some furniture to hide under/behind. When she feels secure and 
    knows she always has a safe place she can get to, then she'll be more 
    likely to come out. It's possible that by being with your other cats 
    she would learn that you are a friend, but I think that would be a
    lot for her to cope with at once. I would wait until she's a little
    further down the road before letting all the cats meet.

    Don't free feed, that is, don't keep her dish filled all the time. (I'm 
    assuming that because your parents were feeding her she is not skin and 
    bones or terribly underweight.) Figure out how much food she should have 
    per day and divide it between two or more feedings. I'd also dish the 
    food out in her room, so she gets the sound (and smell) effects. She 
    will come to associate you with the feedings. Feed her in her room but 
    a little away from her safe place, so she has to leave it to get the 
    food. 

    Once you put the food down, stay (as in "sit on the floor") in the room 
    for a while, at the furthest point from the food. Continue talking to 
    her the way you have been. Eventually, she should come out of hiding to 
    get the food while you are there. Once she does that, you can start to 
    sit closer and closer to the food, and she may be ready to let you touch
    her. 

    Visiting her often and talking to her is very good. Some people recommend 
    playing soft music on the radio; it might help to relax her and let her 
    know the enviroment is not hostile. The eye contact and behavior info in 
    1. and .2 is also good advice. Maybe you could sometimes just sit quietly 
    in the room reading a book, or take a nap there so she can become more 
    accustomed to you presence.  

    Once you've made the first breakthrough, you may find that progress is 
    more rapid and widespread. 

    Considering that progress taming her is probably going to be slow, I 
    don't think you have much to lose by taking her to the vet. If she is 
    pregnant, you want to know that as soon as possible, as well as whether 
    she has any health problems. Spaying should have a positive effect on 
    her, also. If she is pregnant and you don't want to have her spayed, or 
    she is too far along for spaying, she should have the proper food. The 
    noters who breed cats can give you better information about care of a 
    pregnant feline.

    Also, she may *not* be pregnant. Mother Nature is wise (usually). Cats 
    do not usually get pregnant at this time of the year, at least in this 
    climate, since the kittens would not survive. She may look pregnant, if 
    she's had kittens, without that being the case. My Tweetie was like that. 
    When I adopted her, I was sweating it that I'd have to find homes for 
    kittens, but it turned out she only *looked* pregnant. 

    Best of luck to you, and don't get discouraged. 

    Linda, Misty, Cubby, Toby, Tweetie, and Peanut

    Please don't laugh, this often works:
    
    Don't look the cat in the eyes but if you can't avoid it take a brief
    glance only.  Sit on the floor near by at right angle to the cat and
    lower your head, turn head toward (glancing sideways and up) cat and 
    blink both eyes twice; take a sideways glance and turn away.  This is a 
    non-threatening move that cats make when they don't want to fight.  The 
    blinking of both eyes is also a sign of non-aggression.
    
    Don't bother with human words, say things like Budda-budda-wa-wa on an
    ascending note in a med-high octave, rapidly, or Bread-and-butter-pussy 
    cat in the same manner.  Med-high octave chirping noises, whether words
    or sounds, are approval sounds to a cat.  
    
    You'll look and sound stupid, but if you're a cat lover you will be
    very use to that.
    
    Best of luck
    
    Three (who gave up dignity and trying to commuicate with cats with
    words long ago) and me
                                                  

    There is a good article in the November 1990 issue of Cat Fancy 
    entitled "Earning Trust" which discusses working with abandoned or 
    abused cats. It gives some good tips and helps you see things from 
    the cat's perspective. If you would like to read it, send me mail
    (PROSE::GOGOLIN).


    Re: .8, speaking the language

    Wow, that's wild! I've never heard that. 

>   You'll look and sound stupid, but if you're a cat lover you will be
>   very use to that.
    
    I love that line -- it's so true!

    Linda

    Re .8- Do you mean I look & sound stupid doing that?
    
    I never knew! :-)
    
    Lynne

    I trapped a feral cat about 4 years ago- at least- and she hasn't
    warmed up to humans yet and I guess she never will. She loves the other
    cats and they are affectionate to her as well. She is not allowed out
    because at this point I believe she wouldn't be able to survive. She
    is really cute to look at - but isn't a pet. I just let her stay
    because she isn't any trouble, is VERY clean, and I just plain feel
    sorry for her. When I trapped her in a Hav-A-Hart she was an older
    kitten, running in an out of traffic and eating from garbage cans.
    
    Looking back, I believe some cats are the same as wild animals - not
    the strays but the ferals. Some will never be tamed altho they can 
    get used to living with humans. Their parents were probably wild too.
    I know this doesn't hold for all ferals because Roberta's Nikki is 
    the perfect example. I have also seen other humane society ferals which
    were eventually put down because they could never be socialized. But
    how do  you know for sure until you've tried!!! Your cat may turn out
    to be a sweet-heart. I hope so.  
    
    Pat
    
    
    

My experience leads me to believe that you must decide to handle the cat
often and regularly, and you have to do that...even if the cat doesn't act
like he/she wants the attention.  Pick the cat up and cuddle it OFTEN, 
scratching a chin or ear until he or she begins to relax a little...talk
softly, kindly and touch.  If you don't you can get trapped into the pattern
of only touching the cat when you want to DO something to it -- that will
simply make the cat more determined to escape your attention because it
doesn't want it's claws clipped or coat brushed, or to go to the vet.  You
must make attention a positive, "feel good" event to ever get past the wall
of fear.  And, you must be willing to accept the limitations of what you can
do.  My Nicholas was brain-damaged at birth and he is not very bright - he
doesn't play and he isn't much for being cuddled....he simply doesn't take
sensory input well.  He is, however, a warm presence in my lap in the evening
and will stay for a pet or a scrath as long as I don't try to pick him up.
That is all he will ever be able to do.  Hannah, on the other hand, was
rescued and came to me after much rejection and uncertainty -- she is a love,
totally devoted to me, and always ready for a cuddle.  Hannah and I have
quality time every day with her "hannah-brush", where I brush her and talk
to her.  Brushing her was my first attempts at touching her, and it worked
with her because she is bright enough to absorb new experiences.

There are no guidelines for this -- you have to go by instinct.

			Good Luck

Sad news.  The cat escaped sometime late last week.  She was missing for
about two days, and wasn't eating her food or using the litter box.  I 
was positive that there was no way for her to get out, so was sure that 
she was trapped somewhere.  Finally, after turning the place upside down,
I discovered that she had knocked the dryer vent pipe off and had escaped 
through the vent hole.  This is an amazing feat since the pipe was securely
fastened to the vent hole, and was even taped.  She must have tried and
tried.  

Now I feel terrible.  I haven't seen her since.  And it's getting so 
cold out.  I probably should have let her be.  

    Atleast she knows where she can come for some food and warmth.
    You did all you could for her....she might be watching the house
    from a distance.  Keep leaving some food out for her and maybe
    if she get hungry enough...she'll come back.
    
    Just remember...you tried so hard.  Please keep us posted.
    
    Sandy
    

    I'm sorry to hear the kitty escaped. Who would have guessed she would 
    have tried to get out that way? It was a freak "accident". You did your 
    best. If you hadn't tried to help her, would you have been happy with 
    that?

    Can you leave food and some kind of shelter outside for her? Are there 
    any places near you, such as a barn, where she might have gone for 
    shelter? I'm sure such a determined kitty will look out for herself.

    I'll keep an eye out for any strange kitties in the neighborhood that
    might match her description.

    In sympathy,

    Linda, Misty, Cubby, Tweetie, Toby, and Peanut

Yes, I can leave food out for her.  I usually leave food and water in the 
garage for my cats, and I leave the garage door slightly open so they
can come in if they want.  Hopefully momma cat will follow suit.  
I keep wondering if she is on her way back to north andover to see my
parents again.  If you see a cat hitchhiking on Rt 3, be sure to pick
her up!

    Yes, keep feeding her.  She may learn to trust you in time.