Conference misery::feline_v1

    Why not get an electronic cat flap? It will only let your cats in. This
    system worked fine for me when I had probs.
    
    Lisa plus PR&F
    

    Not to shock you, but you *could* come home to find
    two kittens to bury.  Tomcats (un-neutered males)
    may kill kittens if given the chance.  I am only
    assuming it was a tomcat, but I would keep the
    kittens in until you can be home to supervise their
    outdoor activities.  The catflap is not a bad idea,
    BTW.   
    
    L-

    If those poor kittens acted like Charles Mason had been visiting all
    day, they may welcome a few days in the house where they are secure
    and safe.  Like the other noter said, you could come home to find 2
    kittens that are so beat up or dead, that the alternative to making 
    them into house cats is no problem at all. Remember they look to you
    their owner for their care and safety.
    
    Do you know who owns the bully cat?   That may be a place to start
    
    Barbara & her 3M's

    It is not all that difficult, especially with young kittens, to
    restrict them to the house.  It is much safer for the cats, as there is
    less chances of them tangling with strange cats who may diseases, being
    killed by a dog, run over by cars, mutilated by kids, etc.,etc.
    I have 8 kitties in the house,  and I can't imagine letting them out
    unsupervised.  They are too precious!
    
                                         Denise

    
    thanks, the electronic cat flap sounds like a great idea
    i'll leave them inside until i find one
    
    i don't want to start again the indoor-outdoor battle, i
    have made a decision to allow them to go outside (i live
    in southern france where the weather is generally good,
    there are no screens on the windows, and also i believe for
    them its better to enjoy the outdoors...) (this is a personal
    decision which would be different if i lived in a city
    or apartment complex...)
    
    
    but i certainly don't want to leave them in a dangerous situation!
    one question - those of you who allow your cats outside, at
    what age did you let them run free??  my kittens mother is quite
    small - they are already her size, in fact the male is a bit
    bigger... but i don't expect they will get that much bigger.
    when does a kitten become a cat and get its outdoors passport??
    does size have much to do with their ability to defend themselves
    (and their territory) ??
    
    merci                  
    ellen and buco and cino
    
    
     

    If you are going to let them run free, I would plan on neutering
    and spaying early.  I would generally not recommend letting your
    cats outside at all until this is done.
    
    Jo

    The two little kittys that just joined my family were put outside 
    at one month.  The owner felt the kittys could defend themselves.
    I think that is totally inappropriate.
    
    These little rug-rats are now 5 months and they spend the day outside.
    But I bring them in every sundown.  Of course they have the big
    boys (Barkley) to protect them.
    
    Sandy
    

	My past experiences:

	Well, once they've had their injections, there's no reason to keep them
	in - about 3 months old or so.

	The first few times they're out, I'd suggest only letting them out 
	during the day, with you around.

	Then start to let them go unsupervised for 10 mins or so, when you're 
	sure they respond to your call, and can find the way back into the 
	house.

	Then let them alone for a bit longer.........................

	Once they're happy during the day, put a catflap in, so they can go
	in and out as they please.    

	5 months old for spaying/neutering, the vet will let you know if your
	individual moggies may need to be left longer.

	Heather

    I do agree with the previous noter that the first few times outside
    should be supervised.  Also I found that I would stay outside with
    them and if they strolled too far...I would call them back (by name).
    
    By constantly doing this...they now come when I call no matter how
    far away they have wandered in the woods.
    
    Sandy (Tamba, Poco, Barkley, Chloe, and Agnes)

    I'm sorry, I think 3 months old is far too young to be out
    unsupervised!  Kittens are far more suceptible to disease etc
    at such a young age.  
      Nancy DC

    I think if your kittens are 6 months old, you should seriously be
    thinking about getting them neutered.  I learned the hard way.  My
    kittens mother was a kitten who decided to adopt us.  I didn't realize
    until it was too late that they can get pregnant at such a young age. 
    I don't remember if you mentioned if your kittens are male or female,
    but if one is female, this could be why the stranger is visiting.  I
    had my Telly neutered at 6 months.  He is an indoor/outdoor cat, but
    never seems to wander further than our backyard.  I believe its partly
    because he was done at such an early age.
    
    good luck...
    
    Lynne C.
    

    
    thanks, my kittens were just neutered a few weeks ago - yes
    one is a female...  it could be why the other cat started
    coming in, right before cino was neutered she started showing
    some signs of being in heat (though no crying at all, no
    particular interest in going outside)  but now the visit is
    definitely for food.  i have an upstairs window that goes out
    onto a roof where the kittens like to sit and watch the world
    go by.  saturday morning i got up and opened this for them
    then went back to bed... about 15 mins later i got up and closed
    the window because the kittens were back inside and it was getting
    chilly.  i heard this cat cry from downstairs, the other cat had
    finished all their food and was running hysterically around the
    house, we had a keystone cops scene where myself and the kittens
    ran after the cat (i just wanted it to get out, i felt badly for
    it! )  finally it escaped.  Now maybe this panic will help, havent
    seen the cat since.  But also i'm now removing their food before
    i leave... they seem to eat more at night anyway.
    I'm not too happy that i can't leave the top window open even when
    i'm there, but i think once i can get the cat trapped inside and
    be outside with a hose...
    
    i bought an electronic cat door, but i'm taking it back because
    the mechanism is much too sensitive - requires the piece on the
    collar of the cat to be placed exactly on a particular spot on
    the front of the door
    
    anyone have any electronic cat door tips - manufacturers, stores?
    
    
    merci
    ellen

>    I'm sorry, I think 3 months old is far too young to be out
>    unsupervised!  Kittens are far more suceptible to disease etc
>    at such a young age.  
 
	I did say AFTER they had their shots.

	This may be the difference between the UK and US again, as most cats
	come from parents that are indoor/outdoor, the kittens have quite
	a good immune system to whatever they might find outdoors.

	It's keep them in for the first three month until they've had their 
	shots, rather than letting them out from day one.

	Heather

	> I did say AFTER they had their shots.
    
    There are plenty of things besides dystemper, rhinotracheitis, etc
    that can kill a kitten.  I stand by my opinion.
    
    

	As I said, this may be the difference between the UK and US, there's not
	anything here that is more of a threat to a 3-month kitten, than it is 
	to a 5 month kitten , 9 month kitten, or year old cat........

	Heather

All my guys have had every shot the vets could pump into them.  However,
3 out of the 5 are on antibiotics for respiratory infections.  First was Biff,
then Julie, and now Honey.  My kitchen walls are covered in Clavamox!!  We
suspect my strays sneezed in the wrong direction and it's spreading like
crazy.

I just love it when they sneeze in my face......

Nurse Mary

    I don't think that UK moggies are any heartier than US moggies.

	Neither do I, however, I believe immunity to many things is passed from
	parents to offspring.

	If exposure to the virus/bug..... is stopped, and the offsrpring are 
	never exposed to this, then the inherent immunity is lost.

	The majority of moggies in the UK are indoor/outdoor, and retain their 
	immune system.

	The main things I was thinking about were Racoons, large hunting birds
	or owls, and rabies.

	Heather

    Hold it guys!  Everyone is entitled to their own beliefs in how to
    bring up their children.  Neither side can change how the other side
    feels.  Come on now- let's shake hands across the ocean and call it a
    draw. 8)

    Hi
    
    Has the problem of cat-break'ins stopped now?
    
    The reason I asked is a friend of mine had the same problem.  He fitted
    an electronic cat flap but to no avail the invader discovered that if
    he was fast he could get in right behind the cats.  The situation got
    worse, the kittens would no longer go outside but the other cat still
    can in and terrorised them.  The rest of the story is quite tragic, my
    friend came home one evening and hear cat screams from the bathroom,
    the rogue cat had entered and somehow the bathroom door had shut, their
    is no other way of putting this but he litteraly raped the kittens who
    were not even in heat.  He knew the owner of the other cat and
    explained the situation but he refused to have the cat doctored and in
    fact was extrememly obnoxious.  The outcome was not too happy for my
    friend as he has now had to give away his cats who I understand are
    still very distressed (this happened about 3 months ago).
    
    I am a cat lover (slave to 2 mad black siamese) and this is one time
    when I could almost have caused injury to another cat.
    
    Sorry about the depressing story but I just want to warn people to be
    very careful with cat break-ins, especially if your cats are showing
    distress over it.
    
    Eileen
    

    In such a case, Eileen, I think I wouldn't have even bothered to
    talk to the neighbor but rather taken his cat to the vet's for
    neutering.  Normally, I feel that the owner should be involved but
    when the safety of my cats is at sake I'm much more likely to 
    act on my own to resolve the situation.
    
    Its too bad your friend had to give away his kittens.  I think I
    would just have closed the flap for good and kept them inside.
      Nancy DC