Conference misery::feline_v1

    Indiscriminite urination by cats that use previously used the box is
    very often sigh that somethign is wrong health wise, and most
    frequently the cause is something called FUS, Feline Urological
    Syndrome. There are lots of notes in this file on the topic; check out
    the keywords FUS, URINATION. LITTERBOX_PROBLEMS.
    
    Deb

    See the answers to 4089, which just appeared a day or so ago.
    

    RE .1  I have read about a dozen NOTES about FUS and Cystitus.  I
    called the Vets, and I am going to try and get urine samples to bring
    over there tomorrow morning.  And I will doing some bladder-checking as
    soon as I get home.
    
    RE .2  I read NOTE 4089, and have been wondering about getting a second
    litter-box.  As I mentioned, the cats did not grow up together, but
    have been living together for 10 months.  This little problem didn't
    start happening until about 6 weeks ago.  Everything has been fine up
    until now.  
    
    If the Vet doesn't find anything in the urine, and the bladder-check
    seems fine, I will start giving them more moist food and start up
    another [ :-(( ] litter-box to see if things change.
    
    Wish me luck!  And thanks for the replies.  I will continue reading.
    
    T

    Information I have read states that cats can decide they need another
    litterbox at any time and for no apparent reason.  I suggest that in
    addition to the vet check, you try a second box.
      Nancy DC
    

    I went from one to three (for three cats).  Once Tequila started pulling
    these "tricks" around the basement, I didn't want to take any chances.
    What a drag to clean three boxes every week!!!
    
          

    re: .5 - stop complaining.  I have 7 to clean and Jo has more.
      ;-)

    and then there's the folks with swimming pools to clean!
    
    (but only one! 8-)
    
    jack
    

    Ah, there is nothing like a pool with 40 pounds of litter!
    Actually, we have graduated to a Sesame Street square sand
    box, which fits in the corner better!  It has seats to catch
    the sand (ha ha ha) before it hits the floor!  joke joke
    vacuum vacuum!
    
    I had a friend over a night or two ago, and we were downstairs,
    2 cats were in the 'pool' - they looked at me, and said, 
    
    "Hmm, a gang toidy?"  I said, yup, around here it's share and
    share alike!!  IF you don't like your wee wee partner, just 
    wait a minute, and someone else will come along!
    
    E.T._in_a_weird_mood_and_drowning_in_work

    Hi...
    
    This seemed like a good place to put this note...
    
    I have a new kitten.. She is about 10 weeks old...  Maddie uses the
    litter box, but has started urinating on the end of our bed in the wee
    hours of the morning...  its no fun to wake up to a wet spot at the end
    of the bed...  
    
    She uses the box during the day when we aren't home.. this seems to
    only happen in the early hours of the morning on the weekends...
    
    We tried confining her to a room with a box.. she meowed so much that
    she made herself hoarse...    
    
    if we shut the door to our bedroom we will freeze...
    
    so..  I don't know what to do...  I caught her on Saturday morning.. I
    picked her up off the bed and put her in the litter box.. when she came
    out I praised her..  but on Sunday she peed on the end of the bed..
    
    Maddie is at the vet today for some blood work and shots..  the vet is
    going to make sure that the problem is anything medical...
    
    any suggestions would be appreciated...
    thanks..  
    Kathleen 
    
    
    

you HAVE to remove all scent of the urine or she will return to the same spot.
you seem to have the problem of her being sleepy, needing to go, and using
the nearest spot that smells "right" for the job.  She may also be somewhat
scared to jump down or find it difficult in the dark or whatever.  Anyway,
once the problem is there, she continues to make the same error.  Some kind 
of enzyme cleaner like Nature's Miracle may help...but I'm not sure about 
how much, etc. for a bed mattress.  Meanwhile, you have to isolate her from 
the bed until you get the smell out. 
DO NOT TRUST YOUR NOSE...the smell will still be present as far as your 
little darling is concerned.  It will take an enzyme treatment.
She will recover from a hoarse voice....it's much better than her ending up
OUT of your life over this problem.  Isolate her in the bathroom at night
until you get the bed completely cleaned and dried.

Breeders - what do you say, will N.M. do the job on a mattress?

    Hi...
    
    I have a water bed.. I had the quilt cleaned and the cleaner used EXIT
    on it...  Is that like Nature's Miracle????    Where can I get Nature's
    Miracle?? and has anyone had any luck using it on fabric????
    
    Last night we left her in the den and we left her "mom" Bud with her
    (he's a dog) and that seemed to calm her down...
    
    thanks,
    Kathleen
    
      
    
    

    NM should be  available at a pet store -- try calling around.  For
    whatever its worth, I can't use flannel sheets or tan/beige/brown
    regular sheets on my bed or Holly clobbers them.  Everything else she
    leaves alone.  They must look/feel like sand, i guess :-) sigh.
     

    It's been a while since I started this note about "Buster".  He went to
    the vet's, and they kept him overnight to get a urine sample, that
    showed up negative for FUS.  The vet suggested we feed him soft food
    only, and get another litter-box.  We did.  This has not worked.  Just
    last night, he "went" all over my jacket.  Interesting enough, the
    night before, he was sleeping on this same jacket all night, and then
    24 hours later, he pissed on it.  maybe he didn't want anyone else to
    sleep on it, and was "marking" it for his own.  
    
    Who knows!  This cat has "gone" in about 5 other places in the house
    since we discovered the first few ones.  I.E.; open duffle bag on the
    floor, pile of photographs on the floor, odd's_n_end's basket on the
    kitchen counter, in a corner of the living room, x-mas decoration box,
    and there have been a couple more that I can rememer as I type this
    out.
    
    Buster is spending the next few days in the bathroom, with his own
    litter-box and his own food dish.  The other cats have will be
    separated from him for a while.  We don't even know at this point, if
    he is even using the litter-box at all!!  When we get home after work,
    he will get fed, and then put outside until we go to bed.  We will
    bring him in, because he usually sleeps all through the night.  I KNOW
    this because it's on my feet/between my legs/right against me where he
    usually sleeps.  
    
    I'm keeping my fingers crossed with this idea.  I don't know what else
    to do.  I can't even anticipate where he is going to "hit" the next
    time, because the places he "goes", are never "repeats".  Maybe a third
    box will help.  
    
    If someone has an idea, I'd be glad to hear it.
    
    TC

    Have you tried ovaban yet?
      Nancy

    Buster went to the vet last night.  He has been prescribed an acidifier
    to help eliminate any crystals in his urine.  He has a 30 day supply. 
    I had mentioned that I noticed some "shiny stuff residue" on a dark
    colored gym-bag that he had "hit" once.  This had happened about three
    weeks ago, and Buster's urine was "tested" for FUS AFTER that had
    happened.  So when the vet told us his urine was negative, I didn't
    think much more about it, but I did mention it last night.  It seems 
    that these crystals can appear and disappear.
    
    The vet also recommended eliminating the Friskee's and Purina Cat Chow
    hard food.  Buster (and the other two) are back on Iams hard food.  He
    also wanted to make sure we weren't giving him any soft food with fish
    content, but only meat and organs.  We weren't.  
    
    Didn't seem concerned about other cats being around the house, and
    hassling Buster through the windows.  He told us that he has seen MUCH
    worse cases, and didn't want to prescribe the S/D or C/D diet to him
    unless we didn't see an improvement with the acidifier tablets in 30
    days.
    
    T  

    re:  15
    
    Old Mother Hubbard canned food has an acidifier in it.
    
    

    I'm really glad that you have identified the cause of his problem.
    Its funny how one little observation, like the residue on the gym
    bag, can make a BIG difference.
    
    Good luck.
    

    I can only hope that the crystals I saw were his problem.  I didn't
    know this kind of thing appears and then disappears.
    
    Buster has been on his medication for over a week now, and we have
    only found one spot where he "hit".  This was a couple of days ago.
    The napkin_basket on the kitchen table....:-(  To the best of our
    knowledge, we haven't found anything else....................yet.
    
    I've also noticed that when we change the litter box, he doesn't
    DIVE in to the new litter like the other cats do.  He used to, but
    not in a while.  (Maybe in the last three months.)  We changed the
    litter just recently to see if that might help the situation.  We
    changed it the same night we found the wet napkin_basket....hard
    to say if that has any relation.
    
    Buster has another 3 weeks with the meds.  But I don't know how to 
    tell if the medication is working, and if the crystals are gone.  
    I'm wondering if we should bring him back for a follow-up visit.
    
    Yes - I tried to look at the napkin_basket for evidence of crystals,
    but I didn't see anything.
    
    T

    Just an update on Buster....
    
    He has gone through his first supply of acidifiers.  And in the whole
    month, he only had two "accidents".  We called the vet's (Fallon Clinic
    in Leominster/Lancaster), and they prescribed him for another 60 days
    of medication.  And also mentioned that he might be on these for the
    rest of his life.
    
    Is this common?

    Re: is this common.
    
    Mebbe.  My guys are on CD for that reason.  Sonme cats are just prone
    to urinary tract infections.
    

    The vets told us that we can consider prescribing Valium to Buster.  I
    think I would rather try the CD first.  He only eats IAMS and 9-Lives
    canned.  (And an occasional 'Bonkers' treat.)  We are waiting for the
    'Senior' vet to return from vacation, and we'll make another
    appointment for Buster, and discuss some other alternatives.
    
    I hope the other cats don't mind the CD.  Is it allrigh for the other
    cats to be eating it, too?
    
    Unfortunately, we have found other 'hits' throughout the house.  And
    only ONE of them was an encore performance!  The least he could for us
    is to be somewhat predictable.....geeez
    
    TC

    Actually CD is good for cats, as long as they aren't on acidifier
    medicine (it has the same effect).  It is high calorie, though, so
    you have to watch how moch they eat or they become somewhat,
    well, portly.....
    

    9 Lives and Iams both run a little high in ash which is NOT good for
    a cat with FUS.  The CD is excellent.  My other vet feels its the
    best food on the market.  My only warning is that the dry is very
    high in calories so be sure you read the feeding instructions.  Don't
    free feed the CD dry.  I tried that and in one week I could see a 
    difference in Isis!  She was gaining weight.
    

    I have not been convinced that Buster has FUS.  It might be time to
    have his urine tested again to see if anything's there.  I thought the
    acidifier tablets would help if he was having problems with crystals.
    But since we DID see the crystals once, we can't do anything else at
    this point, but to try and treat him for it.  
    
    Where do we get the CD?  Does the vet prescribe it?  Does it come in
    wet and dry?  If I can get this food now, I'd like to start him on it
    right away.
    
    Thanks for the warning about the calories.  Buster and Precious could
    afford to gain a few pounds, but Harriet's belly is almost dragging on
    the ground - we'll have to watch her.
    
    TC  

    CD is ourchased from vets.  However, the vet may wish to
    prescribe SD for a couple of weeks first.  You should chat
    with the vet.  CD comes wet or dry.
    
    CD is expensive, but you feed soemwhat less, since it is high in
    calories.
    

    > CD is expensive, but you feed soemwhat less, since it is high in
    > calories.
    
    However, it may save you alot of $$ in vet's bills in the longrun.
    :-)  If your vet still has Buster on a urine acidifier talk to him
    or her about the CD since CD also contains an acidifier.
      Nancy

    Our vet prescribed a low calorie CD when our Ricki began gaining weight
    on the regular. If weight gain is a problem, it may be worth asking
    about.
    
    Linda

    Low Calorie C/D? What is it called? Is it W/D?
    
    Deb

    RE: -1
    
    I'm not sure of the name since my sister bought it.  It's only
    available from a veternarian and it's specifically for cats with
    chronic FUS (who get fat from eating the "regular").  
    
    Linda

    Deb, er um..  I have a feeling THE FIRM make take "issue"
    with you deciding that Argus need to D*&*T. I had heard
    a rumor that the FIRM is offering a series of Lunch time
    Seminars.. of course Argus is handling all the "details"..
    ;^)..
    Kate

    Kate,
    
    of course you are right. Argus PERSONALLY contacted me about my use of
    the D-word used in context while referring to him. I'm just afraid of
    how much this will cost me! As for the lunch time seminars, I've heard
    that the firm is providing and catering them as a PUBLIC SERVICE. I'm
    sure I will get stuck for the catering bill, too.
    
    Deb

    RE: .29
    
    Linda,
    
    do you think that you could find out the name of it and let me know?
    
    thanks,
    Deb

    Buster is at the vets today.  He STILL has crystals in his urine, as
    was evident by the sparling residue left on the magazine rack.  We
    brought him in this morning, along with the plastic bag he 'used' which
    had some crystal deposits for the vet to examine himself.  I believe
    they are going to try and get another sample from him today.
    
    Buster has also developed a lesion on his tongue.  This appeared about
    a year ago, but at the time, the vet dismissed it as a cut he might
    have gotten from biting something, and gave him antibiotics which
    seemed to have cleared it up.  Over the last few days, we noticed an
    odor from his mouth, and a milky substance at the corner of his mouth,
    and he wasn't using his tongue as often - very similar to a year ago.
    The vet is going to take a section of the 'lesion' to examine it for
    possibilities of something else...tumor?  
    
    Has anyone ever had or heard of anything like this on a cats tongue?
    Might it be associated with his crystals?  The vet didn't seem to think
    it had any relationship.  
    
    We'll know more tomorrow morning.  
    
    TC  

    If his urine in high in acid maybe he has sores in his mouth
    from too much acid. Some people get these and you use peroxide
    on them and it helps take the soreness out. I believe they are
    called canker sores and can be in the mouth or on the lips.
    
    Hope everything goes well for Buster.
    
    Barbara & her 3M's

    RE .34
    
    The acid build-up makes sense.  I can't imagine putting peroxide on his
    tongue, though.  The vet had us sign a release to let them use a
    sedative, in case they can't get Buster to agree to an exam.  He does
    get a little 'catty' when he goes to the vets.
    
    Thanks for the well wishes.  I can't wait to get him home and give him
    so much attention that he JUST CAN'T STAND IT ANYMORE!  He is
    definitely going to stay at the office overnight, and is having to
    share his quarters with a hyperactive poodle puppy.  Something he was
    NOT happy about when he was left there this morning.
    
    I will keep everyone informed......  

    re: hydrogen peroxide
    Many years ago when I was still smoking I developed something called
    "Nicotinic apthos stomatitis".  Basically it was horrible canker-like
    sores in my mouth.  One of the treatments that was prescribed was
    rinsing my mouth out with a diluted solution of hydrogen peroxide 
    and water.  If you use a full strength solution the bubbling might
    cause more damage to the sore area.  And you don't want to swallow
    the solution either, but hydrogen peroxide does a good job of
    cleaning out the area and helping control any secondary infection,
    even in the mouth.
    
    re: acidic urine - Is he on a urine acidifier right now?  Because the
    general belief is that it is alkaline urine (higher pH) that
    contributes to the formation of crystals.  Usually the treatment is
    to acidify the urine either with a urine acidifier medication or
    by feeding Hills CD.  
    
    Unless he is taking a urine acidifier, I don't understand the comment
    that excess acid in his system might be contributing to the sores in
    his mouth.  Crystals with acidic urine doesn't make sense.
      Nancy DC
    

    re .36
    
    I think the reference to the acid and sores_in_the_mouth was for
    humans, since some of us have canker-sore reactions to highly acidic
    foods.  
    
    Buster has been taking an acidifier medication for the last two months. 
    He came home last night with instructions to double his daily dosage of
    tablets to two-a-day.  He was tested with a low ph level yesterday.  
    
    As for his tongue problem, we found out there was a cut on his tongue,
    and he required stitches to save it.  I don't know what he could have
    cut it on, or if he could have bit it himself, but he's taking some
    ampicillen twice a day to keep the infection away.
    
    It's nice to have him home.  He still has that 'vet-smell' to him, and
    since his tongue is going to need a rest for awhile, we might have to
    bathe him over the next few days to help him clean up.  It's hard for
    him to lick himself, and I think there's still food on his chin from
    two days ago...:-)...I'm just glad he's home.
    
    TC

    Glad to hear that Buster is back home and doing better.  Keep us 
    posted.
    
    
    This seems like a good note to add this episode of Bob's UTI.
    After three weeks of ampicillin we stopped the antibiotic and
    prepared to get another urine sample after 4 days.  During that
    time Bob treated us to another "out of box" experience by urinating
    on the cat hammock.  I called the vet who decided to put Bob on 
    3 weeks of CEFA-TABS.  We didn't get a second urine sample, just
    assumed that the original UTI was back.
    
    Well, Bob has been on the Cefa-tabs for about 11 days and last 
    night episode with the cat hammock.  He started in a crouch and
    stood up as he was urinating so its hard to say if this is a UTI
    or a behavioral problem.  At any rate we did get another sample
    this time and I dropped it off this morning.  It looked cloudy 
    to me so I suspect he's still got a UTI.  
    
    I should mention that the cats have been converted to OMH canned and
    Hills Lite or other low-ash dry foods.
    
    Nancy DC

    Just to let you know about Buster...it has been a month now since he
    was put on two tablets a day.  At first, we were giving him one table
    in the morning, and then one at night.  But the vet told us that we
    could give them both to him at the same time.
    
    He has only had two "out_of_the_box" episodes since he's been on the
    two_pill_a_day prescription.  And both episodes were in the same place. 
    We think we might have the problem under control, now.  
    
    But everything else seems fine for now.  His tongue healed up real
    nicely, too.  We're just keeping our fingers crossed at this point.
    
    Thanks for all your interest.
    
    T (...and Buster and Harriet and Precious)
    

    Hurray and a hug for Buster.
    

    ...two months later...Buster continues to be on his acidifier meds.  He
    has had a few 'accidents'.  But most of them happened while we were on
    vacation for two weeks.  He showed us (in three places) how much he
    cared about us leaving him for a whole two weeks.
    
    The last occasion occured the other night, when we returned from a day
    trip, and found his 'deposit' on the jacket of a friend of ours, who
    had left it on the floor, along side the couch.  How embarressing.  And
    we puposely spent 'quality time' with him that morning, explaining that
    we would only be gone for JUST the day.......;}