Conference misery::feline_v1

>    Now that I have babbled on incessantly...my question is - has anyone
>    had a cat that has a thyroid problem and is it a one time thing - or
>    a chronic ailment?   Poor Sam is going through hell!
    
    
Marilyn,

thyroid problems in cats are just like the same problem in people.  The
problem can be cronic, but is generally controllable by regular doses of
medication.  The vet will be able to determine if the problem is cronic
and controllable.

		we have our fingers and paws crossed....

			D-and-the-gang-of-four-in-San-Jose

    I too have the impression that thyroid problems are treatable with
    medication.  One symptom of a thyroid being out of whack is, I think
    hyperactivity, which might account for Sam's recent behavior.  (Another
    symptom is lethargy if it's out of whack in the other direction.)
    
    Please let us know how things are going with Sam.  Big hugs to him.
    

    I talked to the vets - about 10 minutes ago and Dr. Moss said that his
    kidney function test came out high (again) but it could be due to the
    vomiting episode on Sunday.  The thyroid test results have not come
    back...as yet - to call tomorrow around the same time.
    
    He ate breakfast - but didn't touch lunch (tuna...which is what he
    vomited on Sunday...bad memory?) - I just am at my wits end here.
    He seems to be spending more time at the vets than he is at home.  Am
    I doing the right thing here?  
    
    I guess that if they can _find_ out what is definately wrong with him
    then hopefully they can fix it and he doesn't have to keep going back
    there.
    
    Is he living the quality 'life' that he deserves?  He looked so
    pathetic on Sunday.
    
    Marilyn
    

    marilyn...
    
    was so sorry to hear about this latest with sam/toonces.  please hang
    in there and keep up your spirits.  we will be hoping for the best for
    you.  hopefully, it can be treated with meds.
    
    diane, stanley, stella
    

    Hang in there Marilyn.  I think its still too soon to make that final
    decision.  Sure he's miserable right now but I think you still need
    more information.  Wait until they thyroid tests come back and your
    vet settles on a treatment for him.  Then see how things go.  
      I think you'll know when its time to let him go.  My gut says
    not yet.
      Nancy DC

    I am NOT ready to let go - don't know as I ever will be....and that's
    my dilemma.  I don't want HIM to suffer because of my selfishness.
    
    I will know more today - and hopefully it will be good/encouraging
    news.
    
    How does ANYONE know if a cat is suffering - short of them convulsing
    or rolling over in pain!  His life has been full of abuse and trauma.
    Now he is going to the vets twice a week - and every other week he is 
    going for testing, IV's and bloodwork.  He is stressed out with that.  
    He gets home and gets used to 'us' and freedom - then a week later he 
    goes to the vet and gets needles and lives in a cage.
    
    Don't misunderstand me - I will give him every opportunity to get
    the best treatment that is available - what my dilemma is - is
    how much is how much...for Sam.  I am not the one going there and
    going through all this...he is.  
    
    I have never had to go through this kind of thing before.  I have only
    had to say 'goodbye' to three cats in my life.  Something happened
    they went to the vets and it was time to say good-bye.  I haven't had to 
    see my 'babies' go through this process.  What angers and frustrates me 
    is that I have no medical history on Sam - so we are all more or less 
    working in the dark here.  If we KNEW he had had kidney problems before 
    or if he had a thyroid condition I wasn't made aware of it.  If I had
    known we could have done something right away for him.
    
    Maybe I am expecting too much...I guess I figured that when he went to
    the vets the first time - they would fix him and he would be fine for 
    the next ten years.  Things just don't work out that way.
    
    Marilyn
      

    Marilyn, well,, is he on R/D? for food  and Sub que therapy..
    for his kidney problem.. Let me share a "story " with you..
    In my Vet practice he has a 22 years old Simaese that was diagnosed
    at 17 years of age with Kidney problems and thyroid problems..
    the kitty is alive and very Well today. using this type of therapy..
    the "key" to the therapy according to Dr Eric is the R/D  food.
    he eats his R/D everyday and takes his pill and once every 3 monthes
    or so.. His mummy brings him  in for a subque treatment or 2..
    and he is fine...  Try to relax a bit (thats hard I know)..  If
    you need to talk, please do not hesitate to call or write me..
    Kate

it takes a special kind of caring to tend a sick or abused animal for a long
time.  I know the stress of "not knowing" the answers to whether the animal 
will really get WELL can be terrible to bear. 

As long as the vet doesn't give up, don't you give up.  Toonces has shown
a strong will to live and that will carry him through alot.  Hang in there.
These little furbags are tougher than we think.

		D-and-the-gang-of-four

    And I'm sure he knows you love him very much - all his treatment now
    is given with love - and that makes a BIG difference to him.
       Nancy

    Marilyn, I agree with all the others.  I have learned a lot in losing 2
    dearly loved cats.  They will let you know when their time has come. 
    Believe the vet when he tells you that Sam is in no pain.  I would do
    anything today to be treating and medicating Kirby for his heart
    condition; he almost came home with me that weekend too.  The cats do
    get used to their medicine and special needs after awhile.  I have been
    battling a very stubborn case of chlamydia with Murdock and he doesn't
    even fight me anymore when I shove the ointment into his eye.  He knows
    it has to be done and begrudgingly lets me do it.  I think Sam will
    adapt to his new lifestyle.  The point is:  if you show your anxiety
    and stress he will pick up on it and it will make your situation that
    much harder.  I think he knows those trips to the vet are helping him,
    not hurting him.
    
    Hang in there and try to keep smiling!!
    
    --Roberta
    

    I just called the vet and still no reports back from the bloodwork
    taken on Monday...so poor Sam has to stay there another night.  I
    talked to the attendant and she said that he is still 'chatty' and
    makes it a point to speak to her when she is down there.  He has quite
    the ego.  We both decided he should wear a gold chain (collar) that
    say's 'God, I'm good'!  We both had a good laugh.
    
    He is eating twice a day - dried food (Friskies tuna) and wet food
    (tuna).  I have gotten a couple of notes offline and all have suggested 
    that when he gets home that I keep him on a prescription diet.  I have 
    made the decision to do that.  It is more expensive but if it can keep 
    him away from the vets (and vomiting episodes) PLUS keep him around for 
    a long time - I think it's worth it in the long run.
    
    He does take his pills well and the last time he had his IV he purred
    through the whole thing.  It's just getting him in the carrier (he
    KNOWS where he is going) and having to face Otis and Tiffany when he
    gets home with that strange (HOSPITAL) smell.  They do seem to adjust 
    though.
    
    I guess the 'not knowing' is killing me right now.  Every time I call I
    expect some answers and I get none.  Not because they won't talk with
    me or anything like that - they just don't know.  True test of patience.
    
    We have a lot of anger too.  To think that people could have abused him
    so...makes me sick.  I know I have to let that part go - and I will in 
    time - but I never came face to face with a situation like this and
    it's so difficult to see something you love suffer ao because some other
    human being is so uncaring and cruel.  It's something you read about
    but you don't realize it happens all the time until you're confronted
    with it.
    
    He's a fighter alright and HOPEFULLY he will be able to come home
    tomorrow night.
    
    Marilyn
    

    Hi Marilyn, 
      I know what you are going through with Sam. Wondering and wondering.
    I want to tell you a little story about my two furfaces: 
    
     I picked out my two kitties at the Springfield Animal Shelter when
    they were 5 months old. One was black and one was gray. They were
    brothers. They couldn't be separated. It took pulling teeth in order
    for me to get two kitties from the Sprinfield Animal Shelter. I
    had to fill out papers and go through quite an ordeal. 
      
      When I got home, the next day the two kitties got real ill. They
    coughed and sneezed. I couldn't pick them up because their chest
    and rib cages were so sick. I took them to three different vets,
    and each one told me to bring them back to the Springfield Animal
    Hospital and they would put them to sleep. 
     
      I put the two brothers in a box and set them in the front of my
    car and I drove along. I pulled off the side of the road and I broke
    down and cried and cried. I couldn't bear the pain of putting these
    two little innocent brothers to sleep who were so sick.
      
       I went to a fourth vet. He said he didn't know what to do, but
    to give the two brothers an eye dropper of medicine twice a day
    and we would see how they would do. I kept the kitties sheltered
    and kept them warm and fed them their medicine through the eye dropper.
      
       That was two and a half years ago. I brought my two little brothers
    back to the vets who told me they woudn't live. They
    looked at these little guys and said, "Denise, I don't know how
    you did it, but you have two healthy boys here."
    
      Today, they love each other and play, wash each other, and they
    look after each other like you wouldn't believe. 
      But what I am trying to say to you Marilyn, is "HAVE FAITH", my
    two kitties give me so much love, they act like they are trying
    to pay me back for caring for them when they were so sick. 
    
      I am sure that Sam knows that you are bringing him to the vets
    to make him better. I am so sure that he understands. Just stay
    by him and I am sure that everything will be okay. 
       Sincerely, 
       Denise 
    

    Dr. Mulcahy just called and she said that Sam's urine looks good, he is
    doing well and no vomiting.  He is a mystery to them...though.
    
    She said that the thyroid came back as 'low' normal - but that could
    have been a false reading due to his vomiting and being sick.  She
    isn't going to do anything about that now.  He will have to continue
    going to them once a week for the IV's and blood work done again in
    another two week.
    
    She is taking him off the amoxicillin putting him on another antibiotic
    (which I can't remember what she said it is) and back on the
    prescription cat food.
    
    He is purring up a storm and is very vocal and definately wants to be
    noticed.  She said I can pick him up tonight.
    
    Still we still don't know much - or why he got sick - but will try
    this route.  I want to see him for myself...and get him home where he
    belongs.
    
    re: 12  Thanks Denise for sharing your story with me/us...miracles
            do happen don't they?
    
    I'm being quietly optimistic and hoping that Sam will start putting on
    some weight and his kidneys will be o.k. - and the thyroid go back to
    normal.
    
    Thanks everyone.
    
    Marilyn
    

    re: urine tests - that's good news :-)
    
    Keep us posted.
      Nancy DC

    Sam/Toonces is home.
    
    He is on the C/D prescription diet - goes once a week for IV's and is
    on an antibiotic for 2 weeks.  His eyes looked a little sunken in his
    head and he moved slow but atleast he is where he belongs.
    
    He was extremely quiet when he got home - but knew where he was and
    just laid down on the living room floor and conked out.  By the time I
    went to bed he was a little more vocal - ate some food - but didn't
    drink any water.  He came to bed with me - slept soundly and this
    morning seemed like his old self.  He talked to me constantly - ate a
    big bowl of food and drank a lot of water.  As I got ready to walk out
    the door to work he kept rubbing up against me and 'talking' and when
    I closed the door he jumped into the open (screened) window crying -
    which I could hear as I was driving away.   :=(   He has NEVER done
    that before.  
    
    He weighs 12.2 lbs - and is skin an bones.  He is a big boy and he
    could stand to put on about 3 lbs.  Hopefully he slowly will with 
    time.
    
    Marilyn
    

    The CD is pretty high in calories, so perhaps that will help Sam
    put on weight.  Please let us know how things are going with Sam.
    

    There is no doubt that Sam is very very happy with you :-)
    I'll keep you both in my prayers.

    Thanks Nancy...and we are VERY VERY happy with him.
    
    Marilyn
    

    glad sam is home!  keep on keeping on!
    
    diane, stanley & stella
    

    Marilyn,
    
    I can't believe it....Poor Sam!  I truly believe Sam knows deep
    in his heart that you are only there to give him love and try to
    help him overcome his illness.  He sounds like a very strong, loveable
    guy!
    
    Keep your spirits up...and keep helping same fight this battle.
    
    Sandy (Tamba, Poco, and Barkley)
    

    Marilyn I just read about Sam's problems today and also just realized
    that it was you.  That sounds silly I know but its true.  Remember you
    shared one of your bread recipes with me. You were staying home 
    that weekend because you had just adopted an older cat and very 
    generously said I could call if I had problems with my bread baking.
    I thought then what a special person you were.  That still holds true.
    I hope Sam will be well soon.  He sounds delightful.
    
    My prayers.
    
    Flo & Oliver
    

    Marilyn, please talk to your vet about Tapazole.  Peaches, 15 yrs, has
    had a thyroid problem for several years now and he is on 1/2 tablet of
    Tapazole each morning and evening. The tablet is real tiny, about twice
    the diameter of a pin head.  We break that tablet in half and he
    swallows it just fine as long as it's placed toward the base of his
    tongue.  It is a 5 grain strength and the manufacturer quit making that
    size for several months, but now has it back in production.
    
    Chuck
    

    Hi....well Sam is doing so-so!  When he first comes home he really does
    well and adjusts beautifully, then after about a week...he seems to go
    down hill.
    
    He is on CD (cat food) and when he first came home ate every morsal.
    Now he won't touch it.  He attempts to jump up on the counter to get
    Otis' food...and cries constantly.  Last night he kept me awake most
    of the night....trying to get me up ... and tried to get into my
    daughters room where we keep Tiffany's Purina Cat Chow.
    
    I finally gave in and gave him some 9-Lives Tender Moist Meals
    (Souper Supper) and called the vet this morning.  I am sure he has
    lost atleast 1/2 a pound if not more.  Anyway, they called me back
    and said to read the label on the CD can and to find in the store
    a cat food that has the same low protein as CD.
    
    Does anyone have any idea what over-the-counter cat food is low in
    protein?  I have the feeling that he'll gorge himself with the
    9-Lives...and could precipitate vomiting again.
    
    God....talk about a finicky cat!
    
    Thanks for any suggestions/help!
    
    Marilyn, Otis Tiffany and Sam/Toonces
    

     How's Sam doing?????  Can we have an update???
    
    Sandy

    Sam is physically doing o.k. - he is eating pretty good but does vomit
    periodically.  Either he eats too fast - or is starving.  He wants to
    eat all the time.  I have - in the past - put him on a schedule but he
    is getting piggy now and wants to eat continually.  He put on about 1 
    1/2 pound but still appears to be thin to me.
    
    He attacked Tiffany so much now that we have had to keep Tiffany locked
    in a room...which is bothering me.  Sam stalks her and then goes after
    her and has had Tiffany bleeding about three times.  Needless to say
    Tiff is VERY intimidated.  
    
    I don't know what to do about the situation - I am assuming that it is
    Sam's possessiveness that makes him attack her.  He has attacked Otis
    ONCE - but Otis has claws so that stopped Sam from hurting him again.
    Plus the fact that Otis is 22 lbs (Sam is about 12 lbs) - keeps Sam
    at bay.
    
    Not a pleasant situation - I am concerned about Tiffany being cooped
    up in a 10 x 14 room all the time...she is getting paranoid.
    
    Any suggestions?
    
    M
    

    If Sam is causing the problem, wouldn't it make more sense to confine
    HIM to one room instead of Tiffany? You could put him in there when he
    is naughty - sort of like kitty jail.
    
    Pookie and Rolf play fight alot, but there is no blood. Pookie could
    demolish Rolf with a flick of the paw - but she doesn't ;-) Sounds like
    you've got a problem there - sorry I can't be more help!
    
    Still, its good to hear that Sam is fighting fit ;-)
    
    Lisa.

    We confined Sam first but he wouldn't eat or drink water and didn't
    use the litter box.  We are gone 8 hours a day and have come home
    to find Tiffany bleeding.  She is the one who has retreated to my
    daughters bedroom - where we have put her food - litter box and
    bowl of water because she won't come out.
    
    I don't mind tiffs, growling, spitting and chasing but I am getting
    worried about Sam drawing blood.
    
    

>>    We confined Sam first but he wouldn't eat or drink water and didn't
>>    use the litter box.  We are gone 8 hours a day and have come home
>>    to find Tiffany bleeding.  She is the one who has retreated to my
>>    daughters bedroom - where we have put her food - litter box and
>>    bowl of water because she won't come out.
    
If at all possible, get a large cage -- a breeder's tokyo cage would be
ideal.  Put SAM away in the cage with the litter, water, and snack while
you are not at home.  If he jumps Tiffany, PUT HIM BACK IN THE CAGE 
IMMEDIATELY. If you consistently use this technique,

	Sam will learn that he loses "freedom" when he jumps Tiffany.  This
	lesson won't take long to get through....and you will have protection
	for Tiffany when you aren't at home.

	Sam will HAVE to use the litter box.  If he is confined WITH the
	problem, he won't leave messes around....it's natural instinct
	to NOT mess where he sleeps or eats.    

	Sam can still be free in the house when you are around to monitor
	the situation and can feed him/water him then. 

	When Sam is confined, you can still pass by and say hello and
	give him a scratch on the head -- he won't feel totally isolated
	and won't go into distress.

    Maybe it's because Sam is not feeling to well.  A few weeks back
    we noticed that our Barkley was being pretty mean and attacking
    both Tamba and Poco.  They have always fought...but this action
    was not normal.  We couldn't figure out why the change in
    behaviour.....until we noticed that Barkley had an abscess on
    the bottom of the tail.  Once the abscess broke and he was put
    on medication...we notice his behaviour towards the other two
    was back to normal.   I think he was in pain....and just felt
    like getting someone back.
    
    Maybe this is just a short term problem... Atleast glad to see 
    Sam seems to be getting better and hopefully will stop this 
    nasty behaviour.  Kisses to Tiffany...who does not deserve this.
    
    Sandy

	RE: -.2
    	>Sam will learn that he loses "freedom" when he jumps Tiffany.  This
	>lesson won't take long to get through
    
    
    You said it! I've gotten Argus trained to the point that when he acts
    in some agressive manner and then notices that I observed it, he heads
    off into the jail (the downstairs bathroom) himelf.
    
    Deb 

    Jail (the back bedroom) works with Holly also when she goes after
    Little Bit.
    

    RE: 30
    Deb,, I heard tell that Argus J. Pussycat ESQ.... to that "as strolling
    to his secret hideaway to consult his Law Books.. tee-hee
    Kate

    I have wondered if you should use a different place as kitty jail
    than what you use to isolate the cat during the day.  Otherwise,
    wouldn't he get confused when you put him in his cage in the
    morning when he hasn't done anything?
    
    Just a thought.
    

>    I have wondered if you should use a different place as kitty jail
>    than what you use to isolate the cat during the day.  Otherwise,
>    wouldn't he get confused when you put him in his cage in the
>    morning when he hasn't done anything?
    
Good idea....maybe isolate the cat in the bathroom during "jail" and use
the cage as the restricted area when humans aren't around....the cage will
force the cat to use the cat box and should be used when the humans
aren't around.

    RE: .32
    
    The phrase "Jailhouse Lawyer" seems to come to mind....
    Deb