Conference misery::feline_v1

    
    
    
    Go Jo Go !! 
    
    
      E.T.

    I'll let Jo answer the questions, but being Italian...Gnocchi's
    are one of my favorite Italian foods.  There delicious!!
    
    Good luck with you kitty...he seems to found a great home with you.
    
    Sandy (Tamba, Poco, and Barkley)

    
    I too, will let Jo answer most of your questions.  Gnocchi sounds like
    a little LOVE!!!  
    
    Maybe, (espesically at that price ;-), you should get him a playmate,
    and name him/her Ravioli?, 
    
    Feline Silly,
    
    Sue & Panther, & Spot
    

    I have a Birman boy.  I live in Massachusettes, and purchased him from
    a breeder in Maryland.  I have a bit of trouble accepting the amount of
    money you paid for him (Birmans are expensive cats) and that he only
    weighed a pound when you got him.
    
    Anyway, Murdock, my boy, is a year old now.  He was neutered at exactly
    nine months of age.  Between six and nine months is acceptable for
    neutering.  Murdock is extremely playful, and extremely affectionate. 
    He rubs up against us all the time and gives us love bites.  He loves
    to sit in my husband's lap.  We got him at 5 months of age.  Younger
    kittens tend to have a very short attention span and don't sit still
    for very long.
    
    Murdock is fairly quiet; he doesn't meow often, unless he wants
    something (like a bug on the screen that he can't reach!).  When he
    does meow, it is not loud, and is more like a mmmmrrrroooooowwwwwwww,
    rather than a loud meow.  He is also a sealpoint, with a body that is
    longer than it is stocky, but not too long.  His legs are short, and
    his body color is starting to get very pretty beige shadings in some
    areas.  His point color was light when we got him, but has darkened
    quite a bit over the last 7 months.
    
    Jo Ann Cordes Brown, who frequents this file often, is a Birman
    breeder in Northern California.  I'm sure she will jump right in and
    further answer your questions.
    
    Welcome to the Birman community!
    
    
    --Roberta
     

    Welcome to you and Gnocchi.
    
    As Roberta mentioned, Birmans are usually not talkative cats, and
    only meow when they have something really important to say.  They
    have very sweet, quiet voices. (most of the time)
    
    If the kitten is biting you, you should correct him.  There are
    a very ways to do this.  With a kitten of his age, I would probably
    try to immitate the method his kitty mom would use, which is to
    get a hold of the scruff of his neck, give him a gentle shake and
    say NO!, and then set him away from you.  Do this each time he bites
    you.  
    
    If that method doesn't work well for you, when he bites on your
    fingers, either push up with your finger against the roof of his
    mouth and say NO!, or push down on his tongue and say NO!  You have
    to be consistent and do this every time he bites.  It is not fair
    to let him get away with it sometimes and not others.
    
    On the issue of him not eating dry food.  His teeth are still new,
    so any dry food that you try to give him should be softened.
    Especially if his breeder wasn't feeding him dry food.  If you mix
    it with the canned, you must mix it in well so that he won't be
    able to pick it out.  You will need to gradually mix in more dry
    and less canned until he is eating mostly dry.  Leave a bowl of
    dry out for him too, so that he can munch during the day if he wants.
    Also, remember that you are in charge, not some 1 pound squirt of
    a kitten! :^)  If you put down canned mixed with dry and he chooses
    not to eat it, fine, that is his decision.  You can't start catering
    to him now or you will regret the rest of your lives together. 
    These cats are crafty creatures.
    
    He will start teething at about 5 months.  At that time, the biting
    thing may come up again.  Some kittens will run a slight fever when
    they are teething.  If he does, take him to the vet to be sure that
    it is just from teething.
    
    Since he is only 11 weeks old, he is much younger than my kittens
    are when they go to new homes.  Be sure to check his health record
    and see if he has been given his shots.  My kittens usually get
    their third vaccination at 12 weeks, so he may be due for a shot.
    If he has only been given one vaccine, you should take him in for
    a booster.
    
    There is nothing you can do about him stepping in his messes and
    tracking them all over your house.  Trust me, he will outgrow that.
    Right now he is just young and clumsy.  As he matures, he will probably
    become more fastidious about his litter box habits.
    
    If you have any more questions, just drop me a line.
    
    Jo
    

    Murdock is not afraid of strangers either, and he adores children. 
    I have never had a cat that was so good around youngsters.  He is the
    first to greet people when they arrive, and for some odd reason, he
    loves men.  One night I had a detective at the house regarding some
    trouble we were having in the neighborhood and Murdock was downright
    embarrasing, climbing all over the guy, rubbing him, sitting on his
    shoulders, etc.  Each time I took him off he'd jump right back up
    again.  This nature is typical of a Birman.
    
    Anyway, maybe the reason he doesn't bury his poops is because you got
    him so young??  Not sure on that one.  Regarding the food, I have the
    opposite problem with Murdock:  he doesn't seem to like canned food. 
    He prefers the dry.  In your case, I would try to get Gnocchi used to
    eating dry food.  Try the softer brands like Friskies kitten food
    (comes in a milk carton) or purina kitten chow.  Maybe IAMS kitten too. 
    Murdock liked that when he was a baby.  Maybe if you don't offer the
    canned with the dry he will have no choice but to eat it?
    
    Regarding biting:  Don't play with him with your fingers or hands.  Use
    a toy so he will bite that instead.
    
    Keep sharing your Birman stories!!
    

I may not know all the facts, but this doesn't sound quite right to me.

If any breeder I knew were routinely selling 6-week-old kittens, they'd get
a substantial piece of my mind (which I can ill-afford these days...). 

Your kitten should have stayed with the mother until it was 12-13 weeks 
old.  The majority of a kitten's training and socialization occurs from 6 
to 12 weeks of age.  That's why you're having to deal with these problems.

Jo mentioned this, and I'd like to re-inforce it.  In all probability, your 
kitten has not been properly vaccinated.  The best time to vaccinate 
kittens is when they are 9 weeks old, and again at 11 weeks (if you're 
doing a series of two.  Many breeders like to give a series of three, but
since you aren't showing and don't have a lot of cats, I believe 2 will be
adequate.)  Please make very sure that your kitten gets vaccinated.  If the
kitten hasn't been vaccinated at all, get one done now, wait a couple
weeks, and get another. 

I wish you all the best with your new baby.

Ray

    re: 6
    
    AND Murdock likes me tooooo !!  
    
    E.

    re: .7 - I believe the author of the base note said the kitten was
    11 weeks not 6.  I got Bonnie at 10 weeks and she'd had her first shot.
    I intend to give my kittens shots at 6 9 and 12 weeks of age.
    
    Nancy DC

    OH - and I have a picture of MURDOCK hanging over my desk!  :-))))

    re: 10
    
    oh yeah, how come YOU have one and I DON't ??????????????

    re: 9  Nope, 6 weeks.  Should have been 11.
    
    Speaking of shots, if you give them at 6 or 9 weeks, please
    remember NOT to use the 4-way with chlamidia (sp?).  The
    supply house I order from has put a BIG BOLD WARNING in their
    catalog regarding vaccines containing chlamydia.
    It reads:  There is much more to be learned about vaccines
    containing chlamydia.  EXTRA precautions should be taken
    by the person administering the chlamydia containing vaccines.
    If you give live vaccine, you are giving the animal chlamydia. ugh!
    

    RE: .9
    
    To clear up the confusion, the kitten was adopted at 6 weeks and is now
    11 weeks.
    
    Deb

    First of all, I am overwhelmed at the response to my note in a few
    short hours.  (I must admit, I went home for lunch to play with my
    Gnocchi).
    
    You are correct.... Gnocchi was born on cinco de Mayo (May 5) and will
    be 11 weeks old tomorrow.  I adopted him at the age of 6 weeks.  I
    agree that we was/is pretty young, and I attributed a lot of that to
    his lack of knowing what to do in the litter box.  He gets a little
    more grown up every day.
    
    You are also correct about the back-yard-breeder.  He was willing
    to let a 5 week old Himalyan flame point come home with me instead.
    
    I never owned a cat before, but I did a bunch of reading to find 
    out what breed I wanted.  From this, I decided on a bouncing, baby
    Birman.  I was determined that this cat was the cat for me.
    
    There are not many Birman breeders around . . .  let alone in the
    state of Texas.  After months and months of research, I located a
    breeder who had a few pair of breeder Birmans.  One pair had kittens.
    
    Imagine selling a six week old kitty (a small one at that) to someone
    who never owned a single cat before.  It was love at first sight,
    though, in fact, I wanted to adopt the whole litter.
    
    I knew the price was low, but they had not seen a vet yet, and the
    white on their paws was clearly "pet quality."  (It's not very
    uniform).  I met the parents and they were georgeous.
    
    So I took Gnocchi home.  First thing the next day, we saw a vet
    and scheduled all vaccinations, etc.  I got lots of advice on how
    to take care of him and have followed all religiously.  I take pet
    ownership seriously.
    
    Gnocchi spend the first week of his life in the bathroom supplied with
    his kitty bed, litter box, toys and food (bathrooms are BIG in Texas).
    I kept adding rooms as he got older.  Now he knows the whole apartment,
    but is confined tothe master bedroom and bathroom during the day.  When 
    I get home, he is waiting at the inside of the bedroom door, just close
    enough to be as close as he can without getting hit by the door (now
    that's pretty smart).  
    
    By the way, when I first got him he was so small that he could crawl 
    under closed doors to the other side.  I had to stuff each one so that
    he didn't hurt himself.
    
    The vet and her staff fell in love with him, too.  They love his visits
    because he is a cutie and is so friendly.  He plays with everyone
    there.
    
    In the last five weeks, I have really enjoyed watching my kitten grow.
    I am sorry that I never had a cat before.
    
    Regarding Gnocchi's two accidents....  For the first four weeks that
    I had him he never missed his litter box.  Then last week, we were
    playing with a makeshift kitty teaser.  He was chasing the boppo
    bird and having great fun.  Afterward I relaxed and Gnocchi explored.
    He was making another in a series of attempts to enter the fireplace
    which is no-no land.  I gave him a quick squirt with my trusty 
    squirt gun.  
    
    Gnocchi ran to the back of a chair where I couldn't see him.  Then 
    He can out meowing....which sounding more like crying.  I had
    never heard him make this noise before.  When I looked behind the 
    chair, he had gone to the bathroom.  I placed him in the kitty
    bed and left him in the bathroom for an hour or so.  (I was nice to
    him in case he was stressed).
    
    The second time was different.  I was cleaning and Gnocchi was 
    following me around watching.  When I began to clean his litter
    box he disappeared for a while.  Then I noticed:  in the absence
    of his litter box he crawled inside his kitten hide a way and went
    to the bathroom in there.
    
    My question is this....in view of the circumstances I did not
    consider either case abherrent behavior.  Am I correct?  I think
    the first time he got exicted and had to go quickly.  He cried
    because he knew he made a mess.  The second time, well, he
    temporarily did not have a litter box (I have since bought a
    spare).  Let me know, because I don't want to make mistakes.
    
    Gnocchi has the prettiest blue eyes.  I hear that they will
    even get deeper.  What a cutie!  I love it when he is sleepy and
    lets me trim his claws.  Or when he cuddles up to go to sleep.
    Or when we wake up and the first thing he does is lick my face.
    
    No one responded to his seldom purring......  This disturbs me
    a little, but he seems to love me in every other way.
    
    Love my Birman
    
    Pat

    What?  Born on Cinco de Mayo, and he doesn't have a Mexican
    name?!
    

    Pat,
    
    Sounds to me like you are doing everything right.  The problems
    that you are having are all related to his age and size.  His lack
    of purring can probably be attributed to his being taken away from
    mom too young.  Kittens have to learn how to purr, and which situations
    warrant purring.  They are usually taught this by their kitty moms.
    He will probably learn on his own eventually though.  
    
    Birman kittens hit the infamous poo-head stage at about 8-12 weeks.
    That means, they are just too busy to be bothered with looking for
    the litter box.  As Nancy DC's husband Jack puts it, they make your
    house look like a mine field.  Anyway, he should outgrow that problem,
    but in the meantime, if your place is large, get a few more boxes
    so that he is never far from one.  Treat the soiled areas with an
    enzyme cleaner so that he isn't tempted to use those spots again.
    
    He sounds like a lovely kitten and I am sure that you are taking
    good care of him.  But, the breeder should never have taken him away
    from mom so young.  There are lots of lessons to be learned from
    mom. 
    
    Jo 

    Pat, one thing's for sure, I am VERY GLAD that Gnocchi (sp?) is living
    with a good kitty mom like you!
    
    We're gonna have to swap Birman pictures one of these days!!  I am sure
    he is every bit as cute as he sounds.
    
    Welcome to feline notes!
    
    --Roberta
    

    re: -.2, i think...
    
    i never thought of purring as learned behaviour!  my stella was only 7
    1/2 weeks old when i got her (if i knew then what i know now, she
    woulda stayed with momcat longer).  she doesn't purr often, and when
    she does it is verrrrrrrrry soft.  maybe purring 101 is a class offered
    at the age of 8-9 weeks at momcat university, but stella dropped out of
    school too soon!
    
    diane, stella (soft purr) & stanley (rumble purr)
    

    re: 8-9 weeks - nope.  Either that or my folds are precocious.  I think
    I first noticed some purring during nursing when they were around 3
    weeks old.  Now some of them climb into my lap and purr.  :-)

    On Purring...
    
    Yes, but some kittens don't purr till much later.  Stripees was one of
    these....you should have seen Dave and I trying to teach him!  ;-)
    
    Same thing with DWeeBs, he didn't purr the first time till he was
    almost 4 months old. 
    
    And then, sometimes, they're a day or two old, and I can hear them
    purring while their nursing on mom.
    
    cats...who knows!
    
    cin
    

    Gnocchi hit 11 weeks this Saturday and he's gotten a bunch bigger.  He
    has learned to climb!!!!  (whoopie?).
    
    I am finding him everywhere.....atop bureaus, in plants, you know,
    everywhere..........
    
    Gnocchi does purr a little, at verrrrrry tender moments, usually
    when he is licking my face.  He does not rub his body against mine,
    though.
    
    We spent the weekend trying to teach him to bury his poop.  I think
    he thinks I am making it disappear magically, but we will persevere.
    We are working on the biting, but now he is playing head games with
    me, you know, licking first, then biting softly, etc.  Cute!
    
    He has started to eat dry food under protest, but still prefers the
    canned.  And he still sleeps through the night with me....until I
    stir in the morning, then it is all over......PLAYTIME!
    
    All in all a great cat.....thanks for the encouragement that I am a
    good mom.  It's tough to be a novice!

    When Kyrielle was a baby, I was confined to a wheelchair and she
    used to sit in my lap.  Since my hands were always on the wheels
    of the chair making us go, she had to come up with ways to show
    her affection without having my hands available.  She started licking
    my nose.  I thought it was cute, and I encouraged it.  
    
    Now, three years later, I am not in a wheelchair, and the nose licking
    has become nose biting.  She has a nose fetish. :^)  She does this
    the most with me, but has been known to nibble Ken and the cat sitter's
    noses occassionally too.  It isn't cute anymore.  Usually it hurts
    too much to be cute.
    
    Anyway, the point being, be consistent and teach him now, while
    he is little.  If he is anything at all like Kyrielle, you need
    to break him of all his bad habits now, so you don't regret it later.
    :^)
    
    Love those Birmans,
    
    Jo

    Tymothee was a nose-nibbler too!

    And Murdock has given Dana several bloody noses!!
    

    Thanks for the advice.  Biting seems to be Gnocchi's worst behavior.
    When he is in a playful mood, NOTHING seems to get him to stop.  It 
    is very irritating.
    
    I have tried the methods that Jo suggested, but Gnocchi just keeps
    coming back for more.  
    
    Any other advice????

     Re: 20..
    Cin,, Preschie PURRS all the time..  she walks around  on her
    search and destroy missions.. purring.. she is  also
    learning to "talk". Happy is teaching her.. heh-heh.. 
    Kate.. who loves the sound of Purrrrrrrrrr,,,purrrrrrr**yak*yak purrrr

    re: 25
    
    Yup, babies seem to go through the biting stage - guess it's worse
    when they are cutting their teeth, which seems to take until the
    baby teeth are ready to fall out and their adult teeth are on the
    way in!  Seems like they teething until they are 7 months old!
    It should go away as he grows a bit older - Dolly, my 4-month old,
    finally stopped chewing on my fingers!  I wondered if she ever would,
    figuring not too many judges would be too happy if she decided to grab
    on to one of their fingers and have a snack !!  She is now using and
    working with her paws more than her mouth !  She uses her mouth to
    annouce every move she makes!!!!!  And I mean EVERY MOVE - she's
    a chatterbox!
    
    E.T.

hint to stop biting behavior:

cats are predators by nature and one quirk of the predator that helps such
creatures as opposums stay alive is that the predator needs the prey to
struggle in order to bring up the "kill" instinct....in other words, if
you immediately let your hand go completely limp and inert when the kitten/cat
starts biting, the kitten/cat will very quickly loose the instinct to bite!
It will simply stop playing and walk away.  You can then use commands like
"no bite" at the time you stop playing - and begin to train the kitten that
biting will cause the fun play to stop.

	d-who-still-works-with-hannah-on-this-but-she-is-getting-better

    Hello Pat,
    
    Fancy meetin you here!!  Welcome to Feline, and although I'm normally a
    reader only I couldn't resist.  To all you fellow noters, Pat's office
    is just around the corner.  Pat, if you need any local advice I've been
    owned by Cats all my life.  I am currently owned by Telly.  His mother
    was a stray who decided to invite herself to move in with us
    temporarily and have her kittens underneath my waterbed.  I was
    fortunate enough to convince my Husband to let us keep just one.  He
    used to Hate and I mean Hate them, Now He gets caught petting Telly all
    the time.   Telly is 1 year and 3 months.  Is there such a thing as
    terrible Two's in Cats???   
    
    
    Regards,
    
    Lynne Creber
    

    re: terrible twos - Oh ya...I usually use that term to describe the
    time period from about 5 months to 1.5 years. :-)  They DO calm down
    as they get older.  Mao, now 11 yrs, almost didn't make it to 1 yr ;-)
    She was an absolute terror with an unlimited supply of energy.
     Nancy DC

    Update on Gnocchi who will be fourteen weeks old this Saturday:
    
    1.	He still bites, but is doing so less and less and stops when
    	I reprimand him.......  Usually he only starts biting when he
    	is in a "Kitty Frenzy."  You know, born to play....
    
    2.	THERE HAVE BEEN NO MORE LITTER BOX ACCIDENTS!!!!!!!!!!!!and
    	he is making every attempt to buy his poop.  I am so glad
    	that I don't have to get down on my hands and knees and show
    	him how to bury in anymore.
    
    3.	He is eating dry food without a problem.
    
    4.	He is still my little kitty angel......weighed 3.5 pounds a week
    	ago Monday.