Conference misery::feline_v1

    Even if it is Tiff setting Sam up, the Ovaban will help Sam deal
    with it better.  They can still work it out while he is on the Ovaban.
    
    When there is a tiff in my house, I usually spray all parties involved
    with the spray bottle.  That way, no one cat is singled out as being
    the instigator, and no one can harbor hard feelings towards the
    others due to the punishment.  Works wonders for me.
    
    Jo

    re: Sam protecting Otis.  Very possible.  We called Isis "The
    enforcer" because every time Flame attacked Dundee and we yelled
    at him Isis would run over a bop Flame on the head.  Even if we
    didn't yell at Flame Isis would run over and chase him away from
    Dundee.  
    
    My personal feeling is that if Tiff is harassing Sam then the only
    thing that's going to stop it is if Sam sets some limits.  Cats make
    a great deal of noise and do no harm.  However, Jo has ALOT more ex-
    perience with "cat hormones" than I do.  So if she thinks the Ovaban
    will help then keep him on it.
    
    I also like the spray bottle idea.
      Nancy DC

    Let me rephrase that - "Cats make alot of noise and OFTEN do no harm"

another trick to reducing the "getting to know you" period...bathe all
cats with the same cat-safe shampoo.  This is a perfect time of year
to do it, and the results are often nothing short of amazing.  Cats are
driven by a whole world of smells that we cannot recognize.  When you
make all cats smell the same, the adjustment period will often disappear...
and when they start smelling like themselves again, they have already
accepted and adjusted to one another.

    My vet gave Tigger (Mafia cat) Ovaban.  We had two tom cats (Tigger
    and the late Mr Georgie Peakms) and both were macho cats.  Tigger, being 
    rather hyper, had a reflex problem (he struck out each time you touched his
    lower back) and had taken up spraying as a hobby.  The Ovaban cured
    both problems.
    
    Tigger will often pounce on Miss Moffat when he wants something as she
    lets out a blood freezing scream when he does.  He tried it with Flea
    but she just told him to b*****off (she came from lowly stock).
    I love the shampoo idea and would love to use it but although Ovaban is
    good, it doesn't work miracles.

    Marilyn,
    
    I believe the little spats are all part of the introduction, setting
    limits, and getting to know each other.  My cats get alone very
    well but we still have an occasional spat.   Where your kitties
    are indoors all the time it might be a little worse.  
    
    My opinion is that if you feel the Ovaban is calming Sam down keep
    him on it,,,but if you see no improvement...take him off of it.
    I don't believe in drugs of any kind unless of course they are needed.                                                      
    
    I love the Bath suggestions....I should have done that when Barkley
    joined my family.
                                                                   
    Sandy (Tamba, Poco, and Barkley)
    

    It sounds to me like none of them should be on Ovaban, especially
    the 11-year old.  It sounds like they are just getting to know
    one another, and with time will work things out with no human
    intervention.  As long as no one is bleeding, things usually
    settle down with time and lots of patience and a C.A.T.  
    
    Cats will have many tiffs and scuffles in the course of a week or
    month - just like children/siblings.  An 11-year old cat is pretty
    set in his ways, and will take maybe more time to adjust to new
    and younger housemates.  I don't think medication is the answer.
    
    Just my opinon.
    
    E.

    Hi, thanks for all the input!
    
    My first reaction to putting Sam on Ovaban was 'no' and I held off.
    
    However, when Sam sprayed, I knew I could have a potential - if nothing
    else - smelly problem.  
    
    After I entered this note I talked to the vet and she said they don't
    like using drugs unless it's for intervention - which is what we are
    trying to do.  In mellowing Sam out a little - his need to 'spray'
    has gone and he tolerates more of Tiffany's 'hissy' moments.  He only
    took the pill three nights in a row and there are 6 pills left - to be
    taken once a week...as needed.  I don't think I will give him any more.
    
    I personally like the bath idea - might give that a try this week-end
    but as usual - the problem will probably be resolved before I get
    around to doing it.
    
    Otis got his paw in 'poop' (burying it in the box) this morning 
    (argghhh...and just as I was ready to leave for work) - so I picked him 
    up and ran to the sink and washed his foot under warm water.  He didn't
    give me the hard time that I expected - so perhaps bathing them will be 
    fun!    Sure, and I just fell off the turnip truck yesterday!
    
    Marilyn
    

    I wonder if this Ovaban would help with Chewy.
    
    We are at our wits end.  I don't know what to do with her.  Chewy will
    be 3 years old next month.  We have had Zula for about 10 months now
    and Ziggy for about 2 months.  Ziggy and Zula are BEST of friends.
    They sleep, cuddle and play together constantly.  They are inseparable.
    
    Chewy has become a real "Bit*h".  I thought around Christmas time that
    she was starting to come around.   As soon as spring came and I started
    letting her outside, she started to constantly hiss again and will not
    come down from the kitchen cabinets unless it is to go outside.  I
    think letting her back outside has given her a taste of freedom again.
    (this was a couple of months before adding a Ziggy).  We can't even
    pat her, she starts hissing.  
    
    We are in an apartment that does NOT allow cats.  I only like to let
    her out for a couple of hours at night.   She no longer wants to be
    inside.  We let her out, after not being able to stand her hissing and
    growling any longer.  She stays out for 36-48 hours, until she decides
    that she is hungry.  If we don't let her out, she would start digging
    up the carpet by the sliding doors to get outside.  I put down weights
    to keep her from digging it up and she some how manages to move them.
    This weekend, we went away overnight.  I put a big speaker in front
    of the door so that she wouldn't destroy the carpet (doesn't she
    know by now that she can't dig her way out?).  She had just come back
    from a 2 day escapade so I figured she could take it inside for 48
    hours.  WRONG!   I left them all plenty of water, food, and fresh clean
    litter.  When we came home, we were greeted by our two lovable purring
    males.  No Chewy.  I knew something was wrong.  Usually she would have
    been right there screaming to go outside.  We searched for about a half
    hour and couldn't find her.  Finally, I went to lift up the shade in
    our bedroom.  There was this big 4" hole through the screen.  We had
    left the window open about 6 inches, with a metal rod to keep intruders
    out.  She had squished behind the window, and escaped.  We're lucky
    that our Aby, Zula, didn't follow.  He loves the outdoors (we only
    let him out on occassion, with our supervision).   I taped up the hole.
    This morning, I fed her.  5 minutes later, I couldn't find her.  Well
    she broke through the tape that I put on the screen.  I'm afraid we're
    going to get evicted because of her.  
    
    So what to you do with a cat like her.  She used to be a nice cat,
    until we got Zula.  Now, she's getting unbearable.  I would have never
    added a new cat if I knew she would react this way.  She was only 2
    years old at the time.  It wasn't as if she was 15 years old when we
    added a new cat.  I would NEVER do it again.  I would either get two
    cats at the same time or stick with one.  Do you guys think that Ovaban
    would help with Chewy?   What she really needs is a home with a lot
    of open space where she can come and go as she pleases.  She is her
    nice self when outside.  I wish we were in the position to be able
    to buy a house right now.   She hates other cats, but has never gotten
    into a fight.  She just runs away.  She likes to be by herself.  She's
    a real loner.   (by the way, she is spayed, so this isn't the reason
    that she keeps escaping to the outside).  I don't want to bring her
    to a shelter, because I know they would end up putting her to sleep.
    I mean, you wouldn't dump a troubled kid, would you?
    
    Help!!!   We're going crazy.
    
    
    Pam, Chewy, Zula and Ziggy too!    

    Pam,
    
    Definitely not Ovaban for a female.  Ovaban is actually female
    hormones, which is why it often calms a male.  I would discuss the
    possibility of mild tranquilizers with your vet, maybe valium or
    something.
    
    Sounds like a really tough situation.
    
    cin
    

    Pam, I would try caging her and starting over with the introductions.
    If you confine her to a tokyo cage, you can start getting to know
    her again, and gain her trust.  She won't be able to escape the
    house, and your screens will be safe.  In time, when she is reacting
    better to you, you can try again with the introductions.  This worked
    well for me with Kaisha.
    
    BTW - Winston is an expert at breaking out through the screens!
    I came home to a note on my front door from my neighbor yesterday.
    She had seen him outside, so picked him up, pushed him back in through
    the screen, and then duct taped the whole mess until we got there.
    Thank God for neighbors that care!!
    
    Jo

    You are actually only two months into the introduction time, due to your
    newest addition.
    
    The first thing I'd do is tend to the window.  I keep mine closed
    enough so that a cat can't get out (i.e., maybe 1 inch of screen
    accessible).  You can actually drill a slanted downwards hole thru
    the sash and frame and drop
    a big nail in there to pin the sash (or whatever its called) to the 
    frame and take the nail out when you want to really open the window.
    (You can putty this up and use touchup paint on it if you vacate the 
    apartment.)
    
    Once your anxiety about escapes is removed, I would follow Jo's
    suggestions.  (My Holly still hisses at Little Bit after 7 months,
    and I don't expect to ever see them grooming each other, but an actual
    fight is very rare.  They even sleep about three feet apart sometimes.)
    
    You have to hang tough and remember that they all need you.
    

    Thanks for the suggestions.
    
    Chewy was just as bad for weeks before we even added the last new kitty
    (Ziggy).   It was before she started going outside that she seemed
    to be adjusting.  They never fight.  She just lives on the cabinets,
    unless she's outside.  It's the constant growling and hissing that
    drives me crazy.  Before going outside again, Chewy and Zula would
    sleep within a couple of feet from each other.   They would even
    tumble around together on the floor daily.  
    
    She seems to be getting worse, daily.
    
    I guess first thing I have to do is start closing the windows (or at
    least just leaving them cracked,  I know she can squish through 3"
    openings).  Maybe if she's in for longer periods of time, she'll learn
    to adjust again.   I'll patch the screen.  I don't want to fix them
    until we move out.  These are already ruined, from the cats climbing
    up them, chasing bugs, etc.
    
    Has anyone attempted to repair screens themselves?  Any idea what the
    prices are per yard?  Is it easy to do?
    
    By the way, about the tranquilizers,  does the calming down effect
    last, or is it only as long as they are on them?   I'm bringing
    Ziggy to the Vets on Friday for his second shots.  I'll talk to the
    vet about the situation.
    
    Pam

    I've repaired (read: replaced the screening in) wooden screens.  It is
    very easy.  Home repair books go to great lengths about using clamps
    and all that stuff to get the screen taut, but it is completely
    unnecessary.  I just carefully pried off the wooden rods that hold them in
    place, removed the old screening, tacked down the new screening all
    anong one side, pulled it reasonably tight and tacked the other side, then
    the two remaining sides, and replaced the wooden rods.  I even split
    one rod when prying it off, but nailed the two pieces back down and the
    split is invisible.  These have lasted for years, looking fine.
    
    The only trouble I had was when Little Bit paniced at a visitor when
    he was still a newly acquired cat, and went "thru" the screen door,
    but I don't believe any screening tacks can stand up to a 100 mph cat
    (who fortunately returned later that evening).
    
    I think aluminum screens are pretty easy to replace also.  I'll dig out
    my home repair book for info if that's what you have.  Screening itself
    is available at any decent hardware store cheaply.
    
    Have you tried patting Chewy and one of the other cats when they are
    close to each other?  It gets them blissed out and used to being calmer
    near each other.
    

    P.s.  I cut the screening after it was in place, so I didn't have to
    worry about mismeasuring.  tin snips are handy but you can ruin a scizzors
    instead if you have an old pair.
    

    We have aluminum screens and got replacement screens and a little
    wheel tool at Home Depot and replaced them ourselves.  We have to
    do it pretty frequently between the Winston and Annie (dog), who very
    easily can stick her paw through the living room screens. :^)
                                                               
    Winston can open windows unless they are latched.  He opens the
    window, squishes himself between the window and the screen until
    the screen frame gives and pops out of place.  Since these are aluminum
    framed windows, we haven't found a good way to secure the screens
    yet.  So, for now we just have to leave all the windows latched
    and in this heat I hate to do that.
    
    Jo
    

    Jo, the frames of the windows themselves are aluminum?  Not just the
    frames of the screens?  If the windows are wood framed, the nail trick
    should work to keep them securely in place but just a little open.
    

    Jo, is Winston the pretty grey longhaired tabby with the blue eyes?  I
    vageuly recall some photos you sent way back when, and am picturing
    Winston in my mind as a long haired grey tabby with blue eyes.  Whoever
    that cat was in the photo, he sure was gorgeous.
    
    --Roberta (going off on a tangent!)
    

    re: tranquilizers -an does the effect last
    
    The physical effects of the drug obviously stop when the drug is
    discontinued but the behavioral effects don't necessarily stop.
    What you're trying to do is "turn off" Chewy's automatic reaction
    to the other kittens so that she can experience some positive
    interactions with them.  The idea is to break the old reaction and
    build new ones. This will take time so be prepared to continue with
    the tranquilizer for an extended period.  Then withdraw it slowly
    after you feel the new patterns are firmly established.  If she
    starts reverting then she stays on the tranquilizer longer.  Your
    vet is obviously the best person to advise you on how long and
    how much to give Chewy.
    
    Nancy DC
    

    Karen, Thanks for the info about the screens.  I think I'll patch it
    for now and fix them all when we move out.   Right now Zula is in the
    real bug chasing stage and last night he was half way up the screen
    going after a bug that was outside.
    
    I can't pat them at the same time because Chewy won't go anywhere near
    the other two.  Ziggy's funny.   He just looks at Chewy and wonders
    what heck her problem is.  He doesn't even attempt to go near her. 
    Zula still likes to stock her when she comes down once in a GREAT
    while.
    
    I do make it a point to pat Chewy FIRST when we come home before
    patting Ziggy and Zula.
    
    I'll let you guys know what the vet says.
    
    Pam

    Pam,
    
    When my cat Louie was acting all stressed out because of a new dog I
    got, the vet gave me a prescription for Valium for him.  Because he
    seemed ok after awhile, I never did give Louie any, but one thing I
    remember my vet saying was that if I did give him a pill, then he was 
    NOT to go outside for 6 - 8 hours.  So if you do give Chewy some
    tranquilizers, then be sure to keep her inside so nothing will happen
    to her while she's all drugged up!!!
    
    Judie
    

    re: .18
    
    Roberta, the cat that you are thinking about was Jesse James.  He
    was a very beautiful silver tabby with green eyes. Jesse died of
    old age about a year ago last February.  I miss him very much.
    
    Winston is a blue tabby with white feet and gold eyes.  He is very
    pretty and way too smart.
    
    BTW, the windows are framed in aluminum over wood.
    
    Jo

    I spoke to the vet about Chewy and he said that he didn't think
    tranquilizers would help the situation.  He asked if it was a problem
    with her staying outside most of the time.  Well it is because pets
    aren't allowed and we happen to live downstairs from the office at our
    complex.  We could try to keep her in but she is very miserable inside
    and makes life miserable for us too.
    
    She was gone for 50 hours and just came home last night.  She ate and
    within an hour broke through the screen again.  The window was only 
    open about 2.5 inches and the whole is on the other side, not by
    the crack.  She did this while we were right there.  I didn't think
    she could fit through the window when it was only open 2.5 inches.
    Haven't seen her since.  
    
    She's so grouchy inside and constantly hisses and growls.  Funny thing,
    a neibor commented yesterday about her being such a nice friendly cat.
    She is very pleasant outside of the house, away from the other cats.
    It's like Dr. Jeckle and Mr Hyde.
    
    I looked at the screen this morning and I don't see how I can replace
    it.  I thought there were screws in the frame but there aren't.  They
    were just there to attach it to the window frame.  It looks like they
    are a one piece unit.  Fiberglass.
    
    So now how do you replace it?
    
    Thanks, Pam

    Re: .23
    
    there is probably a metal "channel" gizmo running around the sides
    that snaps in to hold the screen in place.
    

re-screening is not expensive (in my area, at least)...talk to your local
hardware store for referral to someone who re-screens.  It's much easier
to get it done than try to do it.  You can also get stronger screening
installed - something to hold a cat.

    Well, after careful thinking - and reading some of the responses to this
    note - I decided not to continue the Ovaban treatment with Sam.  I had
    given him the three pills daily (in a row) and then the instructions
    were to give him one a week for the next 10 weeks.  
    
    After considering his past I felt that he was now undergoing another
    traumtic period - moving to a new home - with 4 beady eyes staring at
    him every where he turned.  Otis is still a _HUGE_ kitten, but young
    none the less, and is pretty loose.  He saw Sam as someone else to get
    into trouble with and someone to chase - & - be chased by.  Tiffany
    was losing yet another corner of her world (she was the first of the
    three) and I think (with Sam being bigger) she felt threatened.
    
    I decided that I would let them all work it out - and pray to God that
    Sam didn't 'spray' more than those two times.  When I was home I would
    keep a constant eye on him - but he never sprayed again.  He and
    Tiff have had one major chase - in the past two weeks - but I have
    found that Sam isn't looking for Tiffany or Otis's approval - he is
    looks MY approval  He follows me everywhere and sleeps with me - and
    doesn't really look for fun or attention from cats.  He gets what he
    needs from me.  So - when Otis runs - Sam just turns his head and when 
    Tiffany spits - he just walks around her.  Simple as that.
    
    Marilyn, Otis, Tiffany & Sam
    

    
    Marilyn,
    
    I'm glad you figured out what the trouble was.  The little luvballs
    never stop being surprising!  I think it is one of the best things
    about cats, (even if it does drive us NUTS from time to time.)
    
    Feline glad for a happy ending,
    
    Sue & Panther & Spot
    

    Marilyn,
    
    Sam sounds like such a sweetie.  He probably has had enough cat
    attention in his life but now he found what human attention is
    all about.
    
    It sounds like they will work it out amongst them.  My three still
    go through brawls once in awhile.
    
    Sandy (Tamba, Poco, and Barkley
    

Bravo for you!  I really do believe that WE often set the tone of
anxiety that makes it hard for our cats to adjust to new household
members.  When we simply accept the change, then so do our furbags...
with VERY rare exceptions.    

			Sam sounds like my Nick - a love for sure...

					D

    Well not that this belongs in this note....it just ended up here after
    talking about Chewy's problems.
    
    Back to the screen.  I still couldn't figure out how to take it apart.
    I'm usually very good at these things.   Someone had screwed the screen
    into the frame to hold it in place.  When I took the screw out, I
    noticed that the frame was broken at that point.  This would make
    rescreening pretty much impossible.
    
    So, I took it down to Portland Screen to see how much it would cost
    for a new screen.  They quoated me $40.00.  That's a lot more that
    I wanted to spend on a screen for a rented apartment.  It was
    my responsibility though.   I went to the office at the apartment
    and told them that I tripped and when I went to catch myself, I 
    accidently put my hand through the screen.  I told them that I
    was going to replace the damaged screen myself but that the frame 
    was broken when someone screwed it into the window frame.   
    
    Well today, they didn't bring down 1 new screen, but a new one for
    both windows.  The other screen was fine but the frame was very
    bent.  Pheeeeewww, that saved some money.
    
    I guess now I can only leave the windows craced when Chewy's inside.
    I couldn't get away with this twice.
    
    Pam

    Pam, 
    
    You might be able to convince the apartment manager that you are
    just *very* clumsy!  :^)
    
    Jo

    First, as serious as this subject is, I still chuckle picturing a cat
    heading for a screen at 100 mph!  We replaced both our front and back
    door screens last year, regular aluminum doors with removable panels. 
    We used the black "fabric" screen. I think it was nylon, and bought the
    installation tool that looks like a small wallpaper roller, total cost
    was somewhere under $10. and about an hour's worth of work, with enough 
    left over for the cellar door, just because we wanted to.  The other 
    thought I had was going to the hardware store and buying the old fashion 
    adjustable width screen inserts that you put in and pull the window down 
    until it meets.  Kind of a double barrier protection.
    
    Now here's my tried and true method of calming the older cat when the
    kitten plays, CATNIP!!  We went through a couple days of Holly-kitty
    doing the growl, hiss, smack routine when we brought Bandid home, first
    we gave her the catnip, then the next day they both had it.  I nearly
    fell over laughing when I turned around to see the cat and the kitten
    side by side, passed out "drunk" laying on their backs.  So now when
    the kitten starts harassing the older one (isn't that tail movement a
    great plaything) I give them both catnip.  I'm in the process of making
    several small cloth bags and sewing the catnip inside.  It keeps the
    mess under control, and seems to keep them happier longer.
    
    Enjoy!
    Lyn, Holly-kitty and Bandit 
    

    re: catnip - well, some of mind laze out with catnip, but most of them
    "revv up" and play furiously.  So it might not have the reaction you'd
    like. :-)

>    re: catnip - well, some of mind laze out with catnip, but most of them
    "revv up" and play furiously.  So it might not have the reaction you'd
    like. :-)

besides, some cats don't have the gene that makes them affected by catnip..
they can't get high or low on it...it's just a weed to them.  8^}

    Is there anything similar to Ovaban for female cats?  Our 2nd
    cat has been "marking" in the living room for some time now and
    we have to figure out something.  She's been to the vet and there
    doesn't appear to be a physical problem.  She goes nuts when she
    sees another cat outside and we think this may be prompting the
    spraying.
    
    Any ideas?
    
    
    
    Bob

    Is your cat spayed?  
    
    Jo

    Re: .36
    
    Yep, she's spayed.  The vet does not feel that there is a physical
    cause.  We had hoped it was just a "phase" but it's gone on too long.
    We just don't know what to do at this point.
    
    
    Bob

    May have started out as a phase but has now become a habit or a
    behavioral problem.  You may have to retrain her not to do it.  The
    Ovaban can bring on a relaxed state with her.  It is generally thought
    to work on males because it mimics female hormones and settles them
    down.  Might work on her too.  Talk with your vet about it.  Make sure
    that he realizes that this is a serious problem and that you have to
    find a solution.
    
    Check the keywords for notes on spraying, urine odors, things like
    that.  There is lots of valuable info in here that might help.  One
    thing is for sure, she is probably being drawn back to the spot by the
    odor.
    
    Jo

    Alexandra, my blue and white *female*, wasn;t spraying but was showing
    signs of agression when I first adopted her. Ovaban worked wonders.
    
    Deb