Conference misery::feline_v1

>    How long can I keep the canned food in the fridge after it is opened?
>    I could only find a VERY large can of it and it will take at least 4
>    days to go completely through it.  I have it in a ziploc bag in the 
>    refridgerator, but can this stuff go bad after a while?

approx. 4 days - 5 days max.  You are just fine.
    
>    Also, someone mentioned to me that is is not good to continue feeding
>    her the same food every day.  Should I try to introduce another brand
>    every couple of days, or break up the Iams/Science diet with something
>    new maybe once a week?  
    
this can be bad advice.  Cats are creatures of habit...in general, they
don't LIKE things like food taste and smell to change and can go off
their feed or get an upset stomache and diarrhea from abrupt changes in
diet.  The recommended method to CHANGE a cat's diet is to add a little
of a new food to the current brand, increasing the amount of new food
added each feeding by VERY SMALL INCREMENTS...not something to do on
a whim.  It is especially important that the kitten get enough nutrition
to fuel her energy and growth needs.  If she is eating well, leave it
alone.  You may find the need to change the diet if she decides she
doesn't like the food she is offered, but I recommend changing the food
only if SHE decides you need to...or if the current food is no longer
recommended for her nutritional needs.  You are feeding an excellent
diet and she should be a very healthy bundle of energy.

    If you want to feed canned, maybe try the little cans of 9-Lives
    kitten dinners or some other variety of tiny can until he is
    old enough to demolish an entire regular sized can on his own, or
    until you get him a playmate to share the can with !!!!
    
    E.T.

    In a related question...lately she has had incredible gas.  I went
    to a pet store that told me that other people had mentioned that the 
    Science diet for kittens gave their cats gas as well.  It reached the
    point where she would eat the SD and then immediately have gas for
    several hours afterward.  I switched her over to Friskies Kitten Food
    (wet) and back to the Purina Kitten Chow (dry) the vet had given
    me last week.  So far she seems ok, but I'm a little worried especially
    after reading .1 !!!  She gobbled up both of these changes with no
    problem (well..I'll find out for sure at lunchtime when I go home to
    check her).
    
    Being a new mom I'm just afraid of doing the wrong thing! Thanks!
    
    C

    
    Regarding the cans of cat food staying fresh in the fridge - you
    can buy hard plastic covers that fit cat food cans perfectly. I'd
    try the pet section of your local department store.  They're made
    especially for pet food cans.
    
    Good luck with your new kitty, they are a source of constant fun,
    laughs and companionship.  (Also people with pets are more mentally
    healthy - I read this in a psychology magazine!)
    
    Gail and Sparky
    

    
    re: changing food -
    
    This can be REALLY BAD to a kitten.  Think about yourself.  If you
    suddenly changed your entire diet there may be more fiber, (gas,
    diarreha) or less fiber, (constipation).  Cats only have 1 or 2 food
    sources.  Our bodies get mixed up if we eat Rasin Bran instead of
    Cheerios.  Depending on the what's in to different foods the reactions
    may go from nothing to severe diarreha( wish _ knew how to spell that).
    This could dehidrate a kitten.
    
    re : Science diet causing gas
    
    My cats also got gas from science diet .  My vet suggested Hills Brand
    W/D formula.  It's a dry food.  The outside has green writing on it,
    (in case you're looking for it.)  and it can only be bought at a vet's. 
    (Since it's for problems.)  I found that I had to keep my cat on it for
    1 year!  I tried to change her diet back to regular food but she'd
    start to stink again.  Now she's fat so they eat Science Diet Lite
    formula. (no gas now).
    Make sure to have your kitty checked for worms or other parasites. 
    They can cause gas or loose stool.  (The vet will want a stool sample.)  
    
    re: staying fresh in the fridge
    
    I suppose it varies from brand to brand but I've found that 9-lives
    tuna dinners go bad after 4 days.  (and boy do they stink!)
    
    
    re: switching food again
    
    I don't mean to scare you it's just that my vet really yelled at me for
    switching Lady's diet to quickly.  She was really concerned for their
    lives as they had all kinds of health problems.
    
    By the way, I thought that dry food was more fattening than wet food. 
    After the vet told me that my cat was obese, I learned that wet food
    has less calories.  So if kitty gets too fat, give her more wet. 
    
    Rachael 
    

    If you cat is having gas on the recommended diet I suggest a phone
    call to the vet for suggestions.  Hills is a high quality food and
    I would think you'd like to stay with something of the same quality.
    In general, I believe that the premium foods like Perform, hills,
    Iams etc are better overall than the supermarket brands.  
    
    You should never feel silly calling your vet for advice.
      Nancy DC

    When Ferlie first decided she wanted to eat what the "big kids" eat
    (Perform), she also had bad gas (we're talking clear the room).  I 
    asked the vet and he said her intestines were not developed enough to 
    handle it (or something like that), but as long as her stools were solid 
    not to worry about it.  I still made/make sure she gets kitten food once 
    a day.  Oh yes, and her smelly gas has gotten much less smelly over time.  
    
    Bernice
    Trouble, Ferlie, Velcro & Becky

    I saw a new vet last night -- it was interesting because this vet
    diagnosed some feline acne that the first vet never commented on.
    
    Anyway, vet #2 agreed with all of you and said to stop switching her
    food back and forth, to stick with one kind for 10 days and then switch
    (if I had to).  Since she is now eating Purina Kitten Chow (dry) and
    Friskies for Kittens (wet) there has been NO GAS!!!  There has been
    no change in her movements as well, no roundworms, nothing.  Maybe
    in a few weeks I'll try Iams dry again, she liked that a lot, but
    I'm not sure if that was a source for the gas as well.  At the shelter
    she was in she was being fed Puss 'n Boots, which may be very similar
    to the Friskies and that is why she can digest it more easily.  Perhaps
    the Science Diet (although I know is best for her) is too rich for her
    system after being fed Puss 'n Boots for 3 weeks (which vet #2 said
    was garbage).
    
    Thanks for all the info!
    
    Cyndi & Carly 

    This topic seemed like a good place to enter the following emergency
    formula.  I was given the formula by a holistic veterinarian during 
    the course he is teaching on holistic pet animal care and nutrition.  
    (This vet is a DVM who includes a variety of holistic approaches in
    his practice.)  He indicated that the formula is beneficial for young
    animals that have been, for whatever reason, weaned early, as well as
    for older animals that are sick and not eating.  For anyone who is
    interested, you might want to keep the formula handy, in case of an
    emergency.

    Put the following ingredients through a blender and then refrigerate:

       1 egg yolk (raw)
       1 Tbsp honey (or less)
       1 Tbsp raw beef liver
       1 Tbsp dry powdered milk
       1 Cup spring water

    --Cindy

    In the course on holistic pet animal care and nutrition that I am
    taking (see the preceding note about the emergency formula), the
    veterinarian stresses the importance of variety in your pet's diet.
    With variety, there is a greater chance that proper nutrition will
    reach all of the animal's systems.

    Variety does not necessarily mean switching brands.  My cat gets
    two different flavors of Old Mother Hubbard canned a day and one
    kind of dried (Fromm's) twice a day.  If she were not an older,
    finicky cat, I would give her a second kind of premium dried food a
    day, but since she was not exposed to this method early in her life,
    I cannot expect to change her ways now.  (Notice the daily rotation,
    and not rotation from one week to the next.)

    The veterinarian also recommends that your pet receive raw food to
    ensure an intake of live enzymes.  (Cooked foods are dead food and
    do not contain all the nutrients that are found in nature.)  The
    following are some of the raw foods that he suggests, to be given in
    rotation:

    o  1 egg yolk twice a week
    o  1 tsp of cultured yogurt two or three times a week
    o  1 tsp of organ meat three times a week (or freeze-dried liver)
    o  veggies daily, such as 1 tsp of grated carrots
    o  raw turkey or chicken neck bone

    Why not try it?  Your cat(s) just might like it!

    --Cindy

    o  1 egg yolk twice a week

>>>    o  1 tsp of cultured yogurt two or three times a week

This is ESPECIALLY GOOD for cats after treatment with antibiotics.
They will generally LOVE it AND can usually tolerate it, unlike their
response to milk.

>>>    o  1 tsp of organ meat three times a week (or freeze-dried liver)

residents of the USA, RAW organs from poultry are a prime medium for 
transmission of salmonella.  See note below. 

>>>    o  veggies daily, such as 1 tsp of grated carrots

Lovely idea...any clues on what I could hide it in to convince my
furfaces to eat it?  I have tried, and they just won't buy the idea.

>>>    o  raw turkey or chicken neck bone
				^^^^^^^^^

My vet would vehemently NOT approve bones....I suggest this be cleared
with your regular vet before feeding.  Also, when feeding raw meat/bones,
do not let the cat keep them around for any length of time (more than
a few hours) or take them outside.  Parasites (such as worms) find 
these a primary breeding ground.

RAW poultry (here in the US) is FREQUENTLY infected with salmonella
and can produce a VERY SICK cat/kitten...approach with caution.  Cats
are just as vulnerable to salmonella as we humans - and get just as
sick.  Of course, if you butcher your own chickens, you aren't likely
to have the problem as it is a result of processing for market.  8^}

    Well, without even knowing the benefits of doing so, I have been 
    doing these things.  I feed a variety of premium dry foods, many 
    different flavors of canned foods, add raw egg yolk once or twice 
    a week, and provide my cats with a mixture of raw meat and veggies 
    occassionally. :^)  
    
    I use beef heart as the organ meat.  It is easier to work with than 
    liver, and easy to find at the market.  I shred carrots and fresh 
    parsley in the blender, mix with ground rump roast and ground beef 
    heart, 1 cup of oatmeal, 1 cup of dried milk, 1/2 tsp salt per pound 
    of meat and a little V-8 juice to moisten the whole thing.  Form into 
    patties and then freeze in individual bags.  To serve, thaw and
    crumble on plate, or you can microwave it to cook it first.  Kitties 
    love it.  We call it "mouse".
    
    My cats also love tins of sardines in oil which they get occassionally
    as treats. :^)
    
    Jo

    Oh, and of course, we give them yogurt too.
    
    Jo

    how much beef do you use?

    Hey you guys, can I move into your houses?  Your cats eat better than
    I do !!!!!  Sounds like they are in gastic heaven.
    
    E.T.

    Re: .11

    Thanks for the word of caution about salmonella.  There is a solution
    (using bleach or food grade hydrogen peroxide and water; sorry, I don't
    have the formula with me) for cleaning fresh food, including raw meat.
    But I believe its primary purpose is to clean the food of such things
    as pesticides and that it won't prevent salmonella.  So, it is wise to
    be sure any raw meat you get is fresh and that it is not kept long.
    This vet advises against free feeding (another bad habit I let my cat
    get into!).  That way, any fresh food you give would not be left out
    long enough so it could go bad.

    As for disguising the veggies, see Jo's recipe in .12.  Thank you, Jo!
    I am going to bring your recipe to the last session of my course this
    evening.  I haven't been able to get my cat to eat veggies either, but
    your suggestion just might make the difference.

    I think most of us in the class were surprised when the vet included
    bones in his list.  He explained that the bones that cause problems
    are those that are cooked, because the cooking causes them to become
    brittle.  He recommended joint and shank (not sure about the latter,
    as I do not have my notes with me) bones for dogs and the neck bones
    for cats, all raw, of course.

    --Cindy

    Re .14
    
    I use one part organ meat to three parts muscle meat.  It is easier
    for me to use one pound of heart and three pounds of roast.  The
    other ingredients are based on four pounds of meat.  Also, I forgot
    to mention that I also add 1 tsp. of Kitty Bloom vitamins per pound
    of meat.
    
    This is really easy to make if you have a food processor.  I grind
    the meat first (not too fine, they seem to like to have to shake
    it around and really chew it), then do the veggies.  I also add
    other seasonings to taste (not my taste, I give it to the official
    taster, Limoges--although, we all know that Limoges will eat
    anything...hmmmm, I may need to get a new "official taster"), the
    cats seem to like garlic in it, and sometimes I use seasoned salt
    instead of plain salt.  
    
    Jo

re 10

Where do you live?  that course sounds wonderful.  I just moved to Marlboro, 
Massachusetts and I'm looking for a holistic vet.  Hope yours is close!

re I don't know which number:

Bleach?  Wait a minute - isn't it POISONOUS?  If it's a different kind of bleach,
I think we'd better make that clear - I have horrible visions of somebody reading
this note, then soaking their cat's chicken livers in bleach and then...

re yet another unknown number:

garlic is great for cats.  they will eat *anything* with garlic on it, and it
is really good for them, according to my holistic vet in Maryland.  By the way,
she showed up in the Sunday's Ripley's Believe it or Not:  "Holistic Vet who
treats cats with herbs, garlic, and accupuncture."  

re several:

I make kitty casseroles a lot for Aubrey.  By the time you mix the veggies
up with other things and especially with a lot of garlic, they don't notice
they are eating, yech, carrots.  I do the same thing for myself.  Oatmeal is
very good, also a little bran, brown rice, and cottage cheese.

z

    Ordinary household bleach can be used to soak and clean meats and
    vegetables before cooking.  What is important is that you get the
    dilution correct, and that you do it in the right way.  A few years
    ago I was reading about this in the Canine file.  I am sure that
    the note is still in Canine, I just can't point you to it.  But,
    the author gave complete instructions for doing it.  It can remove
    the impurities from the foods, pesticides, etc.  
    
    Jo

    Re: .18

    This holistic veterinarian is located in Haverhill, which would be a
    bit of a hike for you from Marlboro.  Feel free to contact me via Mail
    if you would like more information.

    I will try to remember to bring in the proportions of bleach to water
    and post the information next week.

    Cindy

    
    
    Just an alternative to bleach in cleansing food of bacteria and
    pesticides.  Use a 50:50 solution of lemon juice and water and soak,
    fully immerse, all meats for 2 hours, do this in a covered container in
    the Fridge.  Then rinse well and cook as usual or serve raw, (But in
    the USA for poultry products, this still isn't a good idea.  (Just my
    .02.)
    
    Feline germ free,
    
    Sue & Panther & Spot