Conference misery::feline_v1

    You are not alone, I don't understand it either.  It's not like
    a cat needs tons of attention.
    
    Imagine an ad that went "Available for adoption, 2 year old boy,
    just had a daughter, no room for both..."
    
    Society's getting worse all the time.
    
    ed

    
    I've often wondered that myself. Maybe I'm strange but I dont see how
    having a baby has anything to do with a cat? If anything its great for
    the baby! I would never give up my cat! Right now I am temporarily
    staying in an apartment with (with a friend) that doesnt allow cats,
    but I would never give her up because of that. 
    
    Lee

    
    
       I too read that note and couldn't understand why having a baby would
    have anything to do with getting rid of their pet.  
    

    Your not alone...I could never give up my kitties but obviously
    not everyone feels that way.  I was outside talking to our new 
    neighbor and his son...and one of my cats (Barkley) came over
    to see what we were doing.  The "son" pointed to Barkley and said
    "gee dad that's the one we tried to catch the other night."  I
    was boiling..I could feel my body tensing up..I went on to state:
    "sir..my cats are my life and I love them as much as you love your
    kids...if something ever happens to one of my cats...one of your
    kids will be missing".  He laughed...(ha ha)  I then had one heck
    of a serious snarl on my face...and told him just how serious I
    was.  He apologized..and said he didn't want to fight...and he
    wouldn't touch my cats!!  Of course..he hasn't talked to me since..
    but it is no great loss! (he hasn't bothered my cats)
    
    Don't get me wrong...I love kids, but noone will ever harm one
    of my kitties!!!  Some people should never own a pet!
    
    Sandy (Tamba, Poco and Barkley)
    

    re:  ALL
    
    I was afraid to voice what you other brave folks did.  I, too, had
    a mental image of a newspaper add saying:  "Just had 3rd baby, really
    only want 1 - 2 available for adoption."
    
    Funny, when my daughter was born, one of the things I did when she
    was VERY young, was get a cat!  I wanted her to grow up with the
    pet - when I was young, I always had to fight to have a pet.  We
    had a dog, but I ALWAYS wanted a cat.
    
    I guess there are reasons for giving up a pet - some things in life
    we ARE beyond our control.  I guess the bottom line is that we 
    shouldn't pass judgement on other folks reasoning.    We may never
    understand why having a baby and a cat is a problem.  Boy, listen to
    me today !!  Sorry !
    
    E.

    Sandy, Sandy, please be careful of how you talk to people.  Take it
    from someone who has had experience in this area.  People can be very
    cruel when it comes to innocent little animals.  Summer is coming,
    school will be out and kids get bored.  They also tend to carry out the
    frustrations of their parents.   If possible, try not to show too much
    animosity towards them.  Call a truce.  If something were to happen to
    one of your kitties what could you do without proof?  Unfortunately, in
    todays society, people tend to get angry and get even.   For the sake
    of your kitties please take my advice and break the ice with your
    neighbor.  Explain to the them that you did not mean to get angry at
    them but that you love your pets as much as they love their kids and
    that you are very protective of them.  I have found that you get a
    whole lot further through friendly but firm communication than through
    anger and threats.  This is not meant to be a sermom because I
    understand just where you are coming from.  This is simply advice which
    I had to learn the hard way.
    
    Good luck
    
    Arlene, Jackie and Marvin

    
    count me in with the rest of you - i too didn't want to put a 
    negative response in. i can't understand why having a baby 
    should mean the cat has to go. i have had my two furfaces for
    five years and nothing will make them go, if we decide to have
    children. everyone has to learn to adjust to new things in life
    and i think the cats could, and people too.
    
    just my 2 cents worth
    
    
    cindi - magen & cinnamon
    

    I guess I am sick of people asking me to find a home for their pet
    which they don't want anymore.  Remarks like I hate cleaning up
    the box;  they pee all over the place and I'm tired of dealing w/
    it;  I don't want to spay her because I like the kittens around, but
    but not permanantly around.....can you find them homes?
    
    I always offer suggestions, tips I've picked up from Feliners - thanks
    guyes, but It really gets to me that they don't feel it's worth trying 
    to fix the problem, it's easier to just eliminate it.  
    
    Also many think because I am into horses, that I can automatically take
    their problem and turn it into a barn cat.......no problem, what's one
    more mouth to feed, vet bills, shots, wormings, neutering.....ANd it's
    not just me, most I know w/ barns have tons of wild strays scrounging
    around,  or litter after litter dumped off.  Who can afford to neuter
    or place all these animals?
    
    This is really getting to be a sore topic for me and I find myself
    getting real bitter.  Instead of saying, no problem, I'll see what I
    can do, I have replies like - oh well, do what you have to do.
    
    I really don't think I should go on, I'm getting P.O.ed.....Michele
    
    
    Well, ET's right, there are some who have tried every last method to
    try and fix a problem, and those people I would go out of my way for,
    sometimes letting go of a cat is the only solution......but at least
    they tried......

    I also think that those that have to give them up must go
    through lots of pain (most of them must).  It's a very hard
    thing to do.  Some times it's the best thing for the animal.
    

    
    I'm with most of the replies here.  I have never understood the notion
    of "disposable pets."  I really hurts my heart to think of a beloved
    pet wondering "What happened?", as it sits in a cage at an amimal
    shelter.  Or worse is dumped on the roadside to fend for it's self.
    
    I wouldn't speak to my own twin sister for a month because she decided
    to get rid of her two cats.  She had had  Smokie and Peanut for 10
    YEARS!!!!  She was going to have her second baby, but she does not work
    outside the home.  I would have taken them, but she told me that she
    had "dropped them off at the pound" about a month after the deed was
    done.  I cried.  I know what happened to those poor babies.  I would
    have been more than happy to give them a home with my two.  She (my
    sister) didn't give me the chance.  I can't even talk to her about it
    now.  It still hurts.  She just didn't want the hassel of the cats
    anymore.  I still don't understand.  What happens when her boys turn
    into teenagers and start to "hassel" her!?!?!  Is she going to "drop
    them off" too???
    
    Thanks for letting me get this off my chest.  
    
    Feline Angry Still,
    
    Sue & Panther & Spot
                        

    RE: .6
    
    I hear you Arlene...but this guy got me so mad.  The week prior
    to our little spat he told me how he caught a racoon in one of
    those "have-A-heart" and put a gun to his head and shot it. He
    was lauging and thought it was great.  I told him I did not agree!
    I was very panic stricken...this guy has no heart for animals!
    
    Thanks for the advise...maybe this summer when we are both out
    in our yards we can talk again....(I just won't bring up anything
    about animals) 
    
    Is it legal to catch/shoot racoons in Mass? 

    Sandy (Tamba, Poco, and big Barkley)

    I do not want to pass any judgement here - perhaps only to offer a
    some food for thought.
    
    The month I was born my parents took in a stray (we named her Duchess)
    and she was my baby.  I dressed her in baby clothes and would take her
    for walks in my doll carriage...I came home from college to find that
    she had had a heart attack and had been put down.  I mourned for a
    year.
    
    In my own married life - the day (literally) we got back from our 
    honeymoon we adopted a Siamese kitten - only to have her die 6 months 
    later of a cancerous tumor (...so sad!) (Arlene, her name was Sam...
    dejavu, huh?)  After we recuperated from her death we got a phone call 
    to rescue a Siamese cat that someone had dumped on the side of Route #2.  
    To make a long story short - he developed dystemper (which he survived) 
    - then a severe vitamin deficiency (he survived that too) and lived to 
    be 20 years old.  I had him for 2 years before I had my two children.
    
    I can only speak through my experience - but my two children (a
    daughter 20 and a son 18) learned so much from Benji.  To be gentle, 
    to be loving and tender.  They learned responsibility (feeding, brushing, 
    changing the litter box) and have turned out to be very sensitive and 
    loving human beings.  Benji was my daughters confidant' and he was my
    sons 'hunter'.  All of their childhood pictures included Benji
    and our dog Sasha...who were with both of my kids for every major event 
    in their lives.  Tears still come to their eyes (and mine as well) when 
    we see pictures of Benji.
    
    I guess what I am saying is that it is possible to have animals and
    babies.  There is enough love to go around and the rewards are much to
    numerous to mention.
    
    I have never had a problem with people who dislike cats or dogs.  Who
    am I try force my beliefs and feelings on them?  It is their choice not
    to include animals in their lives.  What I DO object too, however, is
    when someone adopts an animal and then - when it isn't convenient for
    them anymore - disposes of it!
    
    I no longer get angry at people who abandon and get 'rid' of their
    animals - I only pity them.  For they are missing out on such loyalty,
    devotion and unconditional love that cats and dogs give.
    
    Marilyn, Otis, Tiffany & Sam
    

Consider this a friendly "soon-to-be-ex-moderator" warning:

Feel free to vent in this note, although you should try to remember
not to say anything slanderous about another individual.  Saying
bad things about people in general is fine; anything about 
identifiable individuals will be deleted.  In addition, do not
send mail or call the individuals who post these offending
adoption notices and tell them your opinion since that could
be considered harassment and is against DEC policies and
procedures.

If you have any questions about where the line is drawn, please
contact me.

Pam

    Pam, I am certain that we all understand what you are saying.  Nobody
    wants to say anything slanderous about anyone.  We are all
    professionals and we are all adults.  Expressing our opinions about a
    subject is what communication is all about.  I know what it is like to
    be a victim of slander.  When I was looking for a home for Sam and Joe
    someone at the condo complex where I live misunderstood the notice and
    made two harrassing phone calls to our home.  They wrote nasty notes on
    the poster and called me a vulgar name.  All they had to do was call
    and talk to me and they would have understood that I was not the one
    getting rid of the cats.  
    
    Bottom line, nobody is looking for a fight.  It just helps to air our
    concerns in hopes of ways to find a happy ending to a stressfull
    situation.
    

    Regards,
    
    Arlene

    	I'll jump on the bandwagon here as well.  It never made any
    sense to me when people use "having a baby" as justification for
    terminating a relationship with their cats.  I can understand it
    with dogs, since some breeds are too big and rambunctious to be
    around small children.  But cats?  I just don't get it.
    
    	While I was married, we had two children and both of them lived
    with three or more cats.  Never had a problem.  The children love
    the animals, and understand how to treat animals in general now.
    It helped teach the kids respect for other life forms, and the cats
    provided the kids with friendship and love.  Even when they were
    infants, the cats would sleep near them and snuggle with them. 
    There was never any danger of harm coming to the children.
    
    	I did get rid of my German Shepherd when my first child was
    born, because the dog was just too hyper and too big (130 lbs) to
    be dancing around an infant.  Another DECcie took the dog off my
    hands, and was pleased to get her.
    
    	If there are others of you out there who have cats and may also
    be thinking of starting a family, please don't just get rid of the
    cats out of hand.  At least try a relationship with the cats AND
    the kid(s) before coming to any conclusions.  I think you'll see
    that cats and babies get along just fine.
    
    	Bob (Smoke, Sneakers, Nova, et al)
    

	Re: all

	This is a topic that has long ticked me off.  It seems like
	everyday I read FELINE someone new has entered a note saying
	that they must get rid of their cat(s) because they have
	just had a baby, OR they have moved into a no pets allowed
	apartment!

	I would be devastated if I ever lost my cats.  I am so thankful
	that neither myself nor my fiance is allergic to cats because
	that means our children will not be either (most likely).  If
	I ever had a child that was allergic, I would do everything I
	could possibly do to make the situation work.  But most of
	the people that give up their cats for a new baby don't even	
	have the allergy excuse!  I find it hard to believe that these
	people grieve over losing their cats.  If they cared at all,
	they wouldn't give them up!

	And then there are the people who get rid of the cats to move
	into a No Pets apartment!  Next year I am going to have to
	find myself an apartment but there is absolutely no way that
	I will give up my cats!  Even if I get a less than desirable
	apartment, my cats come first!  My younger brother has a dog
	and because of this dog, he cannot find anywhere to live in
	the towns that have the jobs he wants.  But does he give up the
	dog?  NO!  He rents an apartment, hides the dog, when the dog
	is found out, he moves out and often quits his job to move
	to another town!  Of course, we would all like to see him 
	settle down, but we would never ask him to give up his dog!

	Well, now that thats off my chest...

	;-)

	Karen

    I must admit, that when I read the last note about *another* unwanted
    cat, my blood pressure soared.  This gives me a chance to talk about
    it.
    
    First of all, I would not want people who write to this notesfile that
    are trying to help someone find a home for a cat rather than put it
    down to feel that this is no longer a place to put their plea for help.
    
    But on the other hand, it does get drepressing to read so many notes
    about unwanted cats.  I don't know where people get off *disposing* of
    their babies?!  I just want to shout "think about the animal - they
    depend upon you!"  But, there was a good point made (I forget who said
    it) that if the animal is unwanted, it is better for the animal to be
    placed rather than neglected.
    
    I guess the point I am trying to make is it is real good to have a note
    where we can express our opinion about something so depressing and
    heartbreaking, but let's not scare away the  newcomers or people who are 
    trying to do good deeds for someone they know.  Let's face it, this
    notesfile has saved alot of cats, let's be thankful for that.
    
    Anna/Zildjian/Spunks
    
    PS  I have a cat, Zildjian, who is a real pain and she turns on me alot
    with her claws and hissing.  BUT, I would *never* get "rid" of her for
    that - I made the commitment when I "acquired"  her that I would be
    responsible for her, and that is that.  Not to mention that I love
    that little son of a gun and she is my husband's favorite.
     

    I think there is too much criticism and hostility being expressed 
    in this note. I don't know the person looking to place her cat but
    it seems neither does anyone else here. Maybe we don't know all
    the circumstances. Just because we wouldn't consider having a baby
    a reason for finding a new home for the cat, it seems that this
    person does. How do we know she wouldn't find having a baby and
    animal over-stressful. Not everyone has the same make-up- that's
    the way the world is. And she is TRYING to find it a home- she's
    not turning it into the streets. She is being responsible.
    
    I have a dog, cats, birds, horse and a daughter- who is now grown
    but we always had animals. My sister on the other hand would never
    hurt an animal but because of something which happened a long time
    ago  will not have an animal in her house. Two people- same family-
    different attitudes. 
    
    All I can say is- don't judge until you know all the facts. I think
    this has gotten way out of proportion.
    
    PAT
    
    
    

    
    	Pat,
    
    	I agree with you to an extent.  If there are extenuating
    	circumstances it should be stated as to why the need for
    	giving up the cat.  I don't think that "just because I'm
    	having a baby I can't have a cat" is a legitimate excuse.
    
    	We didn't have pets until my brother and I were older.  And
    	never cats because my parents liked them.  My brother and I
    	loved them.  Unfortunately I ended up being allergic to them.
    	That never stopped me though; I'd pick up a kitty and be 
    	miserable for hours.  When I started dating my husband I was
    	around Brandi all the time and eventually built up an immunity
    	to cats.  We now have 4.  Having that many is causing us a 
    	problem finding a new apartment.  But I absolutely refuse to
    	move until a place is found that will allow our kitties.  We
    	found one and that man breed flame point siamese so he was
    	a cat lover himself. (unfortunately we didn't care for the 
    	apartment)  When it comes time that Cary and I decide we want
    	children they will grow up with cats (and hopefully dogs).
    	I love animals and plan on passing that onto my children.
    
    	JJ
    

    
    	OOps!  that should be 'my parents DIDN't like them"
    

       But I don't think she owes any of us an explanation other than
       what she stated. Maybe if someone steps forward and offers to adopt
       the cat, then that person will be further informed of extenuating
    	circumstances- if there are any. 
       PAT

    just a quick note to reply .15 - I had a Dobie who was 4 yr. old
    and had been the baby of the family when my last son was born -
    evryone felt it necessary to warn me about bringing a baby home
    into this "ferocious" Dobie's domain - needless to say I didn't
    take there advice - she became his second mother and watched over
    him as though he were one of her pups - I'm so glad my son was able
    to grow up with a loving, kind dog.  We all had a great time.  So
    my piece is about keeping dogs, cats and any other pets cause it
    is a wonderful experience for all.

    pat:
    
    I don't think anyone is commenting on one particular note, although
    I just noticed the title does (mod - can we change it? ), most of the
    replies are a general statement about a general situation.  Maybe
    you don't have the people coming up to you like I do, but if you did
    you'd get sick of it real fast.
    
    Again I would go out of my way to help someone place an animal - but it
    is so frustrating when someone else expects me to do all the work, and
    they sit back and don't worry about the consequences of their decision.
    
    I'm real glad that Humane societies and breeders are so tough on the 
    potential adoptee/buyer........if it was harder to obtain pets, there
    might not be soooo many unwanted animals out there.
    
    Michele

    When someone is requesting another person to take on the care, feeding,
    medical bills and responsibility of their unwanted animal - I do feel 
    they owe us an explanation.
    
    Having just adopted an 11 year old male (I already had 2) the
    explanation influenced my decision to do something about it.
    
    Marilyn, Otis, Tiffany & Sam
    

Perhaps the real issue here is the continuing perspective that these
kittens and puppies that people adopt are "just animals" and somehow
"less important" for that reason.  We, as a society, fail miserably
in teaching our young that all creatures have value, and that they
are capable of "feelings".  I'm not on a crusade against eating meat,
or feeding meat to our pets...I am not a total vegetarian, myself.  I do,
however, feel very strongly that animals have rights and deserve
respect and care.  Even our food animals and those used for NECESSARY
research deserve care and as painless a life and death as is
possible for us to offer.

We do not teach our children that adopting a pet is just that...an
adoption...an agreement to take responsibility for the care and well-being
of a living being, for so long as that care is needed..even to the
point of having arrangements made for continued care in the case of
untimely death of the adopting "parent".  We do not teach our children
that these kittens and puppies learn to love and depend on us for their
feeling of safety and well-being in this world.  We do not teach our
children how SCARED AND LONELY a cat or dog gets when suddenly removed
from the only home it has ever known - thrown into a new environment
where there is nothing and noone familiar or comforting on which it
can depend.  We create this problem ourselves because we don't insist
that every child be taught that the human/animal relationship is one
of responsibility as well as one in which benefits are gained.

People get rid of pets when they have babies because they have been
taught that the pets are "dirty" and will somehow pollute the child by their
presence - when the fact is that a regularly-bathed, indoor-only cat
is cleaner than most humans the child will meet and touch.  People get rid of
animals because of allergies, even though, in the majority of cases,
the human who is allergic has a broad spectrum of allergens and removing
a cat or puppy will seldom make much difference...when simply keeping
the animal BATHED AND GROOMED and IN THE HOUSE or restrained to the 
yard would greatly, if not totally, alleviate the problem.

People get rid of pets because they don't want to change cat boxes,
scoop up poop, or "take the time"...because it isn't convenient.

What can we do?  Stop the endless flow of kittens and puppies.  Pay
to neuter and spay animals BEFORE they have a litter.  Abort litters
if necessary to stem the flow of puppies and kittens that make their
INDIVIDUAL LIVES SO CHEAP AND EXPENDABLE.  INSIST that your local
school board get Humane Society or shelter volunteers into the
schools to educate the children about TAKING RESPONSIBILITY for the
pets they may wish to adopt.  INSIST that the children be taught
about what happens to cats and dogs that are NOT adopted...or turned
over to the shelters when they are no longer "convenient"....tell them
about the deaths, starvations, and misery.

    Re: .25
    
    You said it all!!
    
    Linda

    
    I would like to add my voice to those who expressed the feeling
    that these notes are a bit harsh.  (see .17 and .18)

    All of us who read and write in this conference regularly, love and
    take responsibility for one or several animals in our lives.  This is
    what we have in common.  Even among us, however, there is lots of
    diversity.  I enjoy this conference for the support, information
    and humor we offer each other.  However, at times I feel uncomfortable
    with, what seems to me, to be a lack of respect for opinions and
    actions that differ from prevailing values.

    The hot issues have been indoor vs. outdoor, neutering vs reproduction
    of non-pedigreed cats, peoples' values around placing cats and kittens
    for adoption.  Please understand, I'm not saying that I have a corner
    on the "right" sides of these issues.  I am saying that there are
    definite majority and minority opinions expressed in this file, and
    that expressing a minority opinion here *always* draws a heated
    response.

    Sometimes I feel that this forum falls short of valuing differences
    sufficiently.  I would like to see a kinder, gentler tone toward values
    that are different from prevailing opinion.

    
    

    RE: .27
    
    I do agree that there are extenuating circumstances which are not
    always evident in certain situations.  And certainly if an infant's
    health is seriously endangered by the presence of a pet in the home,
    a decision needs to be made (after alternatives have been tried - and
    I believe alternatives *should* be tried, at any expense necessary
    while not unduly financially stressing).
    
    Having just been involved in a situation where I have been trying
    to find a home for a friend's cat, I can appreciate the frustration
    many of you feel.  I am angered by the attitude of a society which
    refuses to respect the life and rights of the animals many of us
    cherish.  I am upset by people who laugh at me when I tell them my
    cats are my children.  I have a family, and that family is a husband
    and seven cats.  If I had a human child and became allergic to it,
    I be in jail if I got rid of it.  And yet, our society believes that
    only our species has any right to be accorded that respect.  I guess
    you can't blame people for what society has taught them - you just
    have to work to change society.  
    
    Hmmm, there's a song in there someone....... 
    
    Mary-Michael & kids (changing society through music!)
    
    

    Along the same line, why is it that breeders once they have 
    "finished using" the female cats for breeding, do not give them
    a decent retirement in the environment the cat has lived in all
    along ? See note 3708. Is a cat only worth keeping if it is 
    "productive" and paying for her keep?
    Martha

    I agree with most of the opinions expressed about people giving
    up pets automatically when they have children.
    
    I have found, however, my own personal experiences to be somewhat
    "Humbling" in the past year.  I found out that there IS such a
    thing as too many cats and I know first hand what its like to
    have cats refusing to use the boxes over a period of months.  
    
    My point is that whenever you hear a story of someone getting rid
    of their pet you must always keep in the back of your mind that
    there may be mitigating circumstances.  We MUST ALWAYS accord people
    that respect until we know otherwise.  
    
    Also, I'd like to point out that frequently when someone does list
    their reasons for giving the cat up we all jump in with helpful
    suggestions as to how to solve the problems.  I recall notes where
    the author of the base note has said that s/he isn't interested in
    the solutions, just in placing the cat.  Certainly our intentions are
    the best but sometimes we get a bit out of hand.  
    
    Its always very difficult to know where the line is between valuing
    differences and preventing harm to a living being.  My personal feeling
    is that perventing harm is more important in many situations.  But its
    something I have to think about each time I find a new situation.
    
    Its tough, to be sure  and I've learned a great deal about life just
    dealing with those issues.
    
    Just my (random) $.02
    Nancy DC

    re: 27
    
    I do have to AGREE with you - we are sometimes seriously tacky
    when it comes to these hot spots.  Lordy, will we ever learn!
    
    I guess that, more than passing judgment or being critical
    to those expressing the oposite veiw on the hot issue, speaking
    for myself and looking at my own situation, I can say that it
    does get tiresome cleaning up after folks that don't, for example,
    spay or neuter.  That's why I have 16 throw-aways.  Now, taking those
    cats was my choice, but I think the what bothers us the most is knowing
    what the fate will be of the cats if we don't take them in.  That is
    probably causing our underlying unfairness when we speak on hot issues.
    
    You are right - we SHOULD be more considerate and value the differences
    between folks.  They will ALWAYS be there - if folks weren't
    diffeerent, what a bore this world would be.
    
    But, I do also have to say, that I agree with those that say, at least
    make an attempt to keep the animal and don't look at it like it's a
    disposable diaper.  I guess I would hope that when a person take a
    pet into their home, they would be prepared to make a 20-year
    committment.  Realistically speaking, we all know that that sometimes
    isn't possible.  Well, aren't I fun - is this being a devil's advocate?
    
    Please Feliners, let's try and be MORE understand - I know for me it's
    not going to be easy - but .27 (Laurie ??) is RIGHT.  Each case is an
    individual set of circumstances.  Actually, on other topics we have 
    been "badder."
    
    E.T.
    

    Re: .25  My sentiments exactly!!!!  
    
    You said it - MAKE LIFE (ANY LIFE) more valuable.
    
    EDUCATE, EDUCATE, and keep on EDUCATING!
    
    Lynne

    I am just about to make myself very unpopular.
    
    I must admit that I feel that in some case's people are quite justified
    in placing there cats.
    This will seem extreemly harsh to most of you, but i have come across
    a few situations  where this realy has been the best thing for the
    cat.
    
    A few years ago my cousin had a daughter. When the daughter was
    about 1 1/2 - 2 they managed to get 2 adorable kittens.
    However the little girl used to think that it was great fun to stand
    at the top of the stairs and throw the kittens down the stairs.
    My cousin found that it was easier to find the kittens a new home
    than to try and stop the child. A rediculous attitude in my opinion,
    but that is the way some people are.
    
    Another situation I came across a few months was when my husband
    and I visited my mother in law in scotland. The cat thought it was
    wonderful to charge around the emormous house, until that was my
    sister-in-laws little 2 year old son appeared. They had great fun
    at first, the both of them charging around the house after each
    other. However the cat didnt think it was much fun to have jelly
    emptied on it, or to be strocked by a very sticky hand. The cat
    ended up in a state of shock. It took her quite a while to get over
    it, so we have now decided to keep all little horrors away from
    our kitty.
    
    I know of a few people that have had to get rid of long cherished
    friends because there child has gotten to the stage of animal hurling.
    
    
    I probably have upset quite a few of you now. Just another point
    of view for you.
    
    
    DIANA  
  

    I have only just got back to this conference after a couple of days
    and havn't had time to read all the notes (boy is this conference
    popular!) but I did quickly review all the answers to this one and
    would like to say my bit.
    
    There are a lot of stories, many of which are 'OLD WIVES TALES' which
    do not recommend cats & babies in the same house, these tend to
    be along the lines of "cat sits on babies face and suffocates it"
    or "cat attacks baby in fit of jelousy", unfortunately the majority
    of stories, "cat gets on O.K. when baby arrives", are not newsworthy
    and so dont get much publicity. Is it surprising then that a new
    parent is a bit concerned about having cats around ? 
    My own mother thinks that cats and small children should not be
    kept in the same house, but this is because she has no first hand
    experience of cats and has been influenced by the bad publicity
    that they get. 
    
    I dont think we should condem new parents who are responsibly trying 
    to find their pussies a home rather than just dumping them, as many do.
                                              
    As for myself, I was acutely aware, when I got 2 kittens, that I
    was taking on a responsibility to them. I would not consider getting
    rid of them if a baby arrived and cannot think of ANY situation
    which would make me want to give them away.
                                               
    
    
    Just my opinion
    
    Martyn.
    
    

    Re: .29 regarding breeders
    
    Being a breeder, I took offense at the attitudes and opinions expressed
    in that note.  I tried not too.  I just want to say a few words
    about giving a retired breeding cat up for adoption.
    
    I think that the author of .29 is not considering a couple of valid
    points on this issue.  First of all, most breeders truly love their
    cats, and their cats are no less their pets than anyone else's cats.
    Deciding to place a retired breeding cat is a very difficult decision,
    and it is not easily reached.  I am currently wrestling with this
    decision myself so I know what I am talking about.  
    
    In a breeding household, there are usually a high number of cats.  
    Each individual cat in the house is subjected to the stress of having 
    to learn to get along with all the other cats.  They also have to 
    compete for the attention of the breeder--who does his/her best to
    give all the cats equal attention.  Those cats must also learn to
    share toys, food and water bowls, litter boxes, good sleeping spots, 
    and everything else with every other cat in the house.  It seems
    that once a cat has been spayed or neutered, they have earned the
    right to have an owner who can lavish attention solely on them,
    and not have to share everything in their life with a houseful of
    other cats.  
    
    I think that placing a retired breeding cat *does not* mean that the
    breeder doesn't value their life after they can no longer produce.
    On the contrary.  I think that it means that the breeder values
    and loves them enough to know that they would be very happy with
    an environment were they could be the center of attention.
    
    And, to address the last question of .29, there is no such thing
    as a cat that "pays it's keep".  Breeding is not a profitable venture.
    One's cat's do not pay the bills, one's outside income does.  If
    a breeder does not have some discretionary income, they will not
    survive in breeding.
    
    Jo
    
    

    Thanks Jo,
    
    I tried to answer that one, and have been struggling with it all
    morning.  You said what I was trying to much better than I ever could.
    
    When I think back at some of the cats I've had in the past, that are
    now living happily in pet homes, I get both sad and happy feelings. 
    One of my very favorite kitties of all times was placed in a home with
    an elderly retired handicapped man....just to see the joy that Mythy
    brings him could bring tears to your eyes....not to mention seeing how
    happy she is no longer having to share the attention.  
    
    If I had kept every cat I've used in my breeding program over the last
    10 years, I'ld have well over 100 spayed or neutered cats....wouldn't
    really be much of a life for them, would it. 
    
    cin
    

    re:  35 & 36
    
    Being a new breeder, I was tempted to answer, but didn't.  Thank
    you both for your responses.  I know that someday I, too, will
    have to place a kitty from my breeding program, and I'm not
    sure if I can do it.  I can only feed can love and keep healthy
    so many cats - to give an animal a home better than I can provide,
    would be the only way I could rationalize relocating a cat from my
    home.
    
    Thanks Jo & Cin
    
    E.T.

    
    
    I am one of those people who have taken in older spayed/neutered
    purebred show cats.  These cats do need lots of attention in many
    cases.  I think showing purebred cats is a very intense process for 
    both the owner and the cats.  The cats get a lot of individual 
    attention during this process.  After the cats show career (or 
    breeding career) has ended, it is sometimes difficult for the cat 
    to re-adjust to life without the extra attention.  In a pet home, 
    they can have that attention.  Granted, life in my house is a bit 
    different with seven, and I do have one who would really like to 
    have me all to herself (24 hours a day 7 days a week), but I'd like 
    to think that they are all happy and well-adjusted.  The breeders love
    all their cats very much, and they have a difficult time giving them
    up - I've seen owners in tears when I've picked cats up - but
    a less stressful life with lots of attention is much better for
    the cat.  Especially certain breeds of cats who are very gregarious
    by nature (and have black swirls and green eyes and run around
    going "ey-oooooo, ey-oooooo" all night ;-)  And I can't thank
    those breeders enough for the wonderful, loving cats who are
    now part of my life.....
    
    Mary-Michael & kids  

    re: 38
    Mary, well said..... HRH is a "former star of stage, and screen"
    so to speak.. and her former co-owners  allowed  me to take her 
    home.. they looked for about 3 years for "someone " she might like
    to live with,, Pookie was a classic example of a "star" that had
    a very difficult time adjusting to being retired.. Allison
     tried to keep upstairs as "pet",, and she was FURIOUS..She
    used to "sneak downstairs to the cattery,, and "kittynap"
    the new babies and hide them all over the house.. she used
    to "terrorize the  "show cats".. .. Allison has visited
    on few occasions,, and she  was quite thrilled that Pookie
    was very , very happy in her new home.. Happy also
    came from a breeder and  I was gald that her former owner
    let me have her to take home.. Allison eas especially
     glad that Pookie has "a baby"  to  raise.. er um.. Imean
    she is helping Happy raise Preschie.. Right Aunt Cin...
    after all Preschie is Happys baby.. .. Tee-hee
    Kate

    RE:25 - Thanks so much for your reply - you managed to say it all.
    
    I recall a few years ago when I had my first cat - well a friend
    came to spend the week end and was very taken in by Ting-Ling. 
    So without even considering the responsibilities of adopting a pet
    - she went out and "got one".  I remember her saying "Well I tried
    one, liked it and got one".  Blue was one of the sweetest, loving
    little guys you could imagine.  How that cat survived as long has
    he did was a miracle.  Bottom line here was that she simply got
    Blue because she thought it was the thing to do, "fashionable",
    everybodys got cats these days, etc. etc. , and I think that's there's
    a lot of that going around these days.  You read about the rising
    popularity of cats and then you hear about all of these "returns".
    Breaks my heart.
    
    I've got three cats and we are thinking of moving to a larger flat
    but haven't found anything that will accept animals, even with a
    large pet deposit.  As much as we could use the extra room, our
    cats come first.  My husband has serrious allergies and asthma which
    came upon him after we had the kitties and the first thing that
    came out of his mouth was "I'll learn to live with this - the
    medication will help".  The doctors told him that maybe the cats
    should go (oh we had 2 at that point) and Richard replied with a
    FLAT NO.  When we added the 3rd cat, Dr. Golden thought we must
    have lost our minds.  Allergies are under control now and Asthma
    has much improved.
    
    I guess what I'm trying to say here is that people shouldn't just
    go out and adopt/purchase/take in an animal without considering
    the total commitment.  It breaks my heart to see these strays, scared,
    hungry and cold, dumped on the streets just because they went out
    of style.
    
    Thanks for letting me add my .02
    
    Giudi

    I have to admit also, that it DOES feel good to vent on the
    hot issues.  Guess we just have to keep in mind that we all
    are very different and we ALL will probably never agree on
    everything.  But, we all have the right to express our
    individual feels without someone landing on us with both
    feet!  
    
    E.

    re: .41
    
    Exactly!  Because from the other side they feel they have the same
    right.  
    
    It is really starting to get to me, and I know others have the exact
    same problems and additional ones, but this note was a good place
    to vent my frustrations.
    
    maybe, just maybe, someone considering to add a kitty to their family
    will step back and consider all the facts before doing it....as a
    result to this note.

    GOOD POINT!  Don't do it unless you really think you CAN make
    that long-term committment!!   I sometimes wonder if an animal
    is better off not alive or moving from home to home or having
    to fend for itself (short-lived) roaming the streets.  It's
    late Friday - better not get into that - it's been a very
    tough week!
    
    E.

    When considering 'getting' a kitten (or puppy) perhaps asking yourself
    'do I want a cat' would help you to look beyond that innocent and young
    stage.  Do you want to commit to the responsibilities of loving and 
    caring for this animal for the next 20 years?  This life is dependent
    on YOU!
    
    Babies, kittens and puppies are adorable.  Sometimes I think the
    advertising agencies and pet food industries are partly to blame.
    They entice the public to buy their products by promoting 'cute'
    commercials and show children with these adorable little creatures.
    They don't emphasize the hard work and commitment that it involves.
    
    I know that if someone had asked me if I wanted 'teenagers' (instead of
    did I want a 'baby') when I was 20 - my thought process would have been
    a little different.
    
    Don't misunderstand me - I love my children and my animals and if I had
    to do it ALL over again - I would in a minute.  But television, movies
    and the media in general wasn't as powerful as it seems to be today.
    
    Sorry for rambling - am I making any sense here?
    
    Marilyn, Otis, Tiffany and Sam
    

    re:  44
    
    
    YES, you are - good question:  do I want a teenager or a baby !!
    
    E.

    
    Yes, good point.  Perhaps the key here EDUCATION of all potential pet
    owners.  Yes thay are adorable as kittens, (or puppies) but will you be
    responsible for them when they are old and tired?  Or Ill?  Or when
    through lack of training or whatever they eat your favorite sweater or
    sofa?  These are the things most pet owners learn to put up with.
    
    IMHO, my animals aor worth far more than my most valuable possession.
    But not everyone sees it that way when Fluffy claws the couch or wakes
    you at dawn to tell you about that bird out the window.
    
    Feline Better for being able to Vent too,
    
    Sue & Panther & Spot (TROUBLE WHO US???)
    

Some of you really did seem to miss my point....

My note was not an attempt to criticize anyone or anything that has been
entered in this conference.  It WAS a statement delineating the 
DESPERATE NEED FOR EDUCATION ON THE REAL IMPACT of adopting a pet.  In
many cases, people feel they should NOT have a pet and I have no problem
with that.

What is needed is the education that will PREPARE people for pet
ownership - and show them the RESPONSIBILITIES involved.  Once the pet
is adopted it is often TOO LATE.....if the living situation changes, the 
pet is suddenly "disposable" because the pet owner did not consider the 
real impact of pet ownership on his/her life.  We need to teach people
to examine their OWN VALUES and determine, BEFORE ADOPTION, whether:

	1.  they will want a puppy or kitten around once they choose
	    have children.

	2.  they are willing to teach their children to NOT ABUSE
	    animals or whether they will attempt to alleviate the
	    issue by removing the animal.

	3.  they are allergic (a simple test will tell them) and
	    whether they are willing to work with medication to 
	    overcome allergies..or bathe their cat weekly, or keep
	    their cat indoor-only to reduce the impact of the
	    allergies.

	4.  they are willing to keep looking for a place to live if
	    they cannot find a place that will accept their pet - even
	    if the place they want is "really perfect" EXCEPT IT IS
	    A NO-PETS APARTMENT....

	5.  they are EVEN IN A POSITION to make a committment to an animal
	    that will live 20+ years in many cases...keeping in mind
	    that the presence of this dependent creature MUST BE
	    CONSIDERED each time a job relocation or move is considered.
	    Or new relationship with someone who might not like/tolerate
	    this pet.

I'm NOT HAMMERING the people who are getting rid of their pets...if they
don't want them, they shouldn't have them.  Period.  It isn't good for
the animal ... the quality of life is a real issue.  I'm saying we are
not educating people BEFORE they adopt a pet.....and we need to get
active and find a way to get the education out there.  It is not a crime
to not feel up to taking care of a cat or dog....it is tragic that
so many people find out they aren't up to it AFTER they adopt.

    I'm going to respond to the original note in defense of giving up a
    pet, since there is none/little.
    
    I have lived with and loved cats since I was six, strictly farm cats
    when living with my folks and indoor/outdoor cats living on my own.
    I spayed/nuetered whether I could afford to or not, shots, vet bills
    when they got into trouble. Even paying to fix up strays that seemed
    to seek me out.(I always suspected my kids talking to every stray
    within 10 miles, here's a sucker for you.)
    
    If my cats didn't like a male friend of mine, I rarely saw him again
    relying on their judgement. When I met my husband they(2) fell in love
    with him and he with them, even with his allergies. In our first year
    we adopted another cat and a dog at the same time. Then we started
    having children.......
    
    With the first child there wasn't a problem, we didn't listem to any
    myths, trained the cats to stay out of the crib, eventually trained the
    child to not "hurt kitty". Several moves and another child later we had
    "lost" two cats. One just disappeared after a move, even though she had
    been with me for seven years and several moves, looked everywhere and 
    checked all possibilites. The other one went "feral", took to the
    wilderness, would see her occasionally but couldn't catch her.
    I have lost cats this way before, and it never stops being painful.
    
    That left one cat, a dog, two children. 
    
    Here's the most painful part:
    
    I AM NOT SUPERWOMAN! It has been almost too much for me to handle two
    small children(3.5 & 1), 10hr days at work, part-time school, laundry,
    meals, etc. Then a very needy cat who woke me up every two hours for a
    reason I was too tired to find out, sometimes I would literally toss
    her outside. The extra responsibility of animals and plants was too
    much. The plants went first, then after some agonizing I decided to
    give up the cat. I could no longer provide her with proper care.
    
    I took her to the Humane Society with her records, dish and all
    remaining food(20lbs). Paid for the adoption fee, if anyone wanted her
    she would be free to adopt. Yes, I feel horrible, guiltridden,etc. but
    I felt there was no alternative.
    
    So now you all have one circumstance, feel free to be as judgemental as
    you want, it matters not to me.The deed is done.
    
    

    I have changed the title of this note. The title and base note were
    directed to someone that put their cat up for adoption in another note
    for a reason that more than one person in this conference has given.
    
    I understand the need to vent that many participants in this forum have
    because we see this so often (and that is the reason that this string
    of notes has been allowed to stay here). However, to point the finger
    at one person out of many that has done this, and make this person a
    *target* of hostility is not going to happen in this conference.
    
    Deb

    re: .48  I can understand what you are saying.  I'm out of the house
    from 6 am - 5pm every day and when I'm home the bulk of my energy goes
    to taking care of the cats and cleaning up the house.  To compound
    matters I've been having trouble with two of the males breaking
    house-training.  I've been working on the problem from multiple
    angles since March.  Several of our rugs are now gone and the ones
    that are left need cleaning frequently.  
      The cats aren't "bad".  I'm still not sure what is going on with 
    them.  The point is that adding this problem to the care that's
    required by 9 cats is almost a breaking point for me.  There are 
    times that I can't stand dealing with the problem and start thinking
    about what to do with the offenders.  If I had children to care for
    too I wouldn't be able to handle it all.
    
    As I said in a previous note, I have been "humbled" by my experiences.
    I used to be very quick to say that the person who was giving up the
    cat was lazy and/or wrong in their thinking.  I know a bit better now.
    
    As long as the person giving up the animals is trying to find a good
    home and has given the issue thorough consideration, we really can't
    ask for more.  Certainly there are many cases where this is the
    best alternative for the animal.  Children can do alot of damage to
    a small animal and we all know what would happen if the animal
    defended itself.  
    
    It is STILL frustrating for some of us to pick up after others and I'm
    glad to be able to express my feelings here.  I think that Dumping
    an animal is a terrible crime and that people who are perseverant 
    enough to find another good situation for the cat are doing no wrong.
    
       Nancy DC

    Oh - one other point.  If someone has decided that they do not
    want to care for their cats any longer, are we really doing the
    cats a favor by trying to convince that person to keep them?
      N

    A tangent to that last coment Nancy (.51) is trying to talk someone 
    into taking one or two of so and so's umpteenth litter.....only to
    find out later on that the cat becomes one of the statistics.
    
    
    

    To be honest, I don't have alot of problems with people who decide they
    must give up their cats for one reason or another, and look for good
    homes for them.
    
    What I have a really hard time dealing with is the ones that want to
    get rid of the cats, and if they don't find homes, will take the cats
    and put them down. 
    
    I have a problem cat, and I'm amazed at the number of people who have
    suggested that I just take her for a one way trip to the vet.  
    
    Now, I do think that there are some problems that are unsolvable, and
    sometimes tough choices need to be made, but, putting a cat down
    because it isn't convenient anymore is disgusting.
    
    cin
    

    This topic brought up one of my concerns.  My son and his wife are
    expecting their first baby shortly.  Yep! I'll be a grandmother
    and can't wait to see that little bundle. They have a cat called
    Scooter.  He is a terror, absolutely crazy.  He's about 2 years
    old now, but has not calmed down and may never change.  He's also
    very curious.  We are all concerned about how he will be with the baby.
    I have tried to be positive, but there is a part of me that is not
    comfortable. 
    
    So I agree with the noters that stated that there could be
    circumstances that we are not aware of.
    
    We all love Scooter and hope that he will adjust.  When I talk to
    my daughtr-in-law about this, the concern is real.  It has nothing
    to do with getting rid of Scooter because he is being replaced by
    a baby. Whatever decision they make, I will accept.   But I will
    be very sad if they decide that Scooter has to go.  I will press
    that Scooter be given plenty of time to adjust before any decisions
    are made.   
    
    Flo & Oliver

    This note and its replies have triggered a lot of feelings
    and realities that I can relate to.
    
    Our personal philosophy is that having a pet is the same as having
    a child in terms of commitment.  You do the best and hopefully
    wisest for them that you can, even at the cost of some personal
    sacrifices.
    
    We recently went through this with Missy and her accident.  The
    injury was fixable but costly.  We didn't hesitate--it was our
    responsibility as her "parents" to take care of her and we did.
    Since it came at a very bad time financially, a lot of people
    thought we should just "snuff her" but there was no way!
    
    As for pets and babies:  I was born into a house with a cat.
    That cat slept in my crib and carriage and followed me everywhere--
    into the playpen and around the neighborhood.  My parents taught
    me not to hurt the kitty and I never did.  As a toddler, when I
    cried, the cat rubbed against my legs to comfort me.  Sadly, he
    had to be put to sleep when I was 4 but our next family cat was my
    companion, my comfort and sometimes my best friend through those
    awful teen years.  Having a pet was one of the best parts of my
    childhood.
    
    As for the work involved:  Currently I work 2 jobs, have 4
    stepchildren (who are with us a good deal of the time), am responsible
    for most family occasions and holidays, take care of my half of the
    work at home, and make time for everyone (3 cats and dog included).
    (Having an injured cat is like having an injured person too--much
    more work and not one full night's sleep since her accident.)
    
    I do know that I am currently at my limit time and energy wise
    even though I would like another kitty.  So, until something changes
    (being able to quit #2 job, having more room, or whatever) we're
    at cat max.
    
    And, as for the venting of feelings and being harsh:  I agree with
    most of the previous replies.  One personal observation:  if I 
    find a topic too heated, not applicable, or too upsetting, I simply
    skip it.  As someone noted, this file is one of the most active
    and if you read everything, somedays you'd never get any work done.
    
    Speaking of which, I'd better get back to my reconciliation!  :=(
    
    Barbara

    I just had a chance to see this note.  I was the person who entered the
    add (for my sister) regarding the cat up for adoption due to a new baby
    in the house.
    
    To calm your concerns, first I'd like to let you know that there was
    interest in my sister's cat... in other words, she could have found it
    another loving home.  
    
    However, she decided she couldn't part with her cat once she came to
    realize that it was a likely possibility.  What I mean is that when she
    asked me to put the note in, she probably was distant to the reality of
    losing the cat emotionally... but when the phone started to ring, it
    struck home that she may lose the cat she truly loves.  Weird, I know,
    but we're all human and our reactions to things aren't always predictable.  
    
    I have not had the time to read all the responses to this note yet, so
    I hope I'm not repeating anyone's comments... but I felt I should enter
    some more thoughts... so here goes.
    
    My sister truly loves her cat - she would brag about Chleo (the cat)
    all the time before the baby came along.  However, her reaction to
    having her first child was complete devotion and protection.  She, all
    of a sudden, became very nervous about where the cat was at all times...
    because it's a fact that on occasion a loving cat has accidently
    smothered a new born.  It's a long shot, but my sister's love for her
    new child didn't have room for any risk - no matter how small.
    
    Also, my sister started becoming nervous about the hair (Chleo is long 
    haired) that was on the furniture.  Before the baby came, my sister didn't 
    care at all about that.
    
    So, I guess what I'm trying to say is that it isn't right to label a
    new mother as uncaring or fickle or anything just because her natural
    inclination upon bringing a child into this world is to protect it with
    all her being.  The new mother may have a terrrible time parting with
    the pet, but she feels she must.
    
    Also, it may not be any better for the new mother to keep the pet with
    all the reservations in her mind... she may unintentionally begin to
    neglect the pet.
    
    Anyway, I just wanted the base noter to hear this side of the story and
    to realize that his/her reaction was emotional and not based on reality -
    at least in the case of my sister.
    
                            Regards,
                             Lynn

    Another point I forgot to make is that... in my own defense (because
    after reading the replies I feel like I've been harpooned...)
    
    I personally think that there is nothing better for children to have
    when growing up than pets (dogs, cats, bunnies, you name it.)  I have
    always had a number of dogs, cats, birds, bunnies... etc and I loved the 
    experiences of them while growing up.  In fact, I still think back
    sadly of the wonderful / special animals that I've lost.  
    
    If you can remember back a while, my husband was the one who posted a
    note in here regarding our neighbor who ran over our cat while on his
    way to church and didn't bother to stop.  We had a nice burial for her
    and I grieved for a long time - more than I ever expected that I would.
    It's amazing how certain pets are so strongly bonded with you.
    
    Anyway, I wouldn't be without pets while raising children.  But, during
    the infancy stage... it may be a bit scary that something unexpected
    could happen.  
    
    Another point I'd like to throw in is that this file openly announces
    that it has a reserved note for placing adoption ads in.  It's not very
    accepting to come down hard on people after they place ads in that very
    place... regardless of their reasoning.  If there are some favored or
    acceptable reasons for placing adoption ads, please specify them.  
    
    Often in notes, people jump in on the conversation if it makes them look 
    good.  In other words, people are often disguising compliments to
    themselves, such as "I'm so kind and caring - I would never do such a 
    thing."  On the other hand, most people aren't brave enough to take a
    strong opposing stand.  When a person does disagree with the majority,
    they tend to mellow their reply with excuses and notations of how unique 
    their situation is.
    
    Also, it's pretty obvious that in parenting or another notesfile, the 
    responses would have been much more objective.  When the priority of
    the notes file is on animals, the replies demonstrate that bias.  When
    the priority of the notes file is on children (or whatever), the
    replies also demonstrate that bias - the child always comes first.
    
    Just my observations.  I'm not trying to simply defend my position
    but hopefully increase awareness.

    re: .57
    
    Certainly there is no intention to make you feel "harpooned"
    in here, and if anything I have said personally in here has caused 
    this, I do apologize.
    
    I didn't take in 7 cats, however, "to look good".  I write in here
    for the purpose of obtaining and giving useful information to
    other cat owners, again not to look "good" or "bad".  People are
    entitled to their opinions in whatever conference they choose to
    access.  Naturally in here we are concerned with the welfare of our 
    feline friends.  
    
    As far as taking a stand is concerned, many of us are battle weary
    about doing so, as our comments have caused some consternation in
    the past, which you may or may not be aware of.  We express our
    commentary in such a way that the reader is aware that we value
    their differences.  This is necessary.  It does not mean our
    opinions are weaker in any way for the references. 
    
    As for my personal opinion - my cats are my children.  There will 
    be no distinction made regarding whom is more important in my house.  
    Cats, children, husband, friends, relatives exist in the same plane.  
    All life is valued equally - not just all human life.
    
    While my opinion does not agree with yours, I respect yours and
    your position in the matter.
    
    Mary-Michael (Niniane, Charm, Dream, Boogie, Mips, Belle & Misha)

    
    	Lynn,
    
    	I for one would like to thank you for 'elaborating' on the
    	story of your sister and your point of view.  I'm sure it
    	will help us all to understand a little better.  It has for
    	me.
    
    	I hope your sister's pregnancy goes well and am glad she
    	decided to keep her kitty.
    
    	JJ
    

Cats are, in general, acutely aware of the fragile nature of
infants and it is extremely unlikely that a cat would injure a child...
I've often seen my friends' newborns napping with the family cat sitting
quietly by the baby's side, never crowding the child in any way.  I checked
with my doctor on this one because my curiosity was stirred...she said it
is an "urban legend" that cats suffocate newborns....it has never been
recorded as an official cause of death - she knows because she spent some
time researching the issue when her sister became pregnant, and owned
4 cats.  Her suspicion is that well-meaning, but uninformed, people start
this rumor when a family suffers the tragic loss of an infant to SDI, and 
they also have cats.  Even if the death is diagnosed as SDI, there will 
always be people with "theories" on what REALLY happened.

It is ALWAYS smart to monitor the behavior of any person or animal around
the baby, but rest assured that the cat is less of a danger, by far, than 
another small child or careless adult can be. 

>this rumor when a family suffers the tragic loss of an infant to SDI, and 
>they also have cats.  Even if the death is diagnosed as SDI, there will 
>always be people with "theories" on what REALLY happened.

that is SID (Suddent Infant Death or "Crib Death")...sorry, my fingers
work independently of my brain sometimes....8^}

I have read all these replies with great interest and I am so pleased that we
heard from you at last, Lynn.

I am expecting my first baby in November and I would like to add that there has
never been a time in my life when you are subjected to so many stories and
other peoples 'experiences' and old wives tales.

My parents (and many other peoples) first reaction to the news of my pregnancy 
was "That's wonderful - but what will you do with the cats?"  It had never
occurred to me that I should 'do' anything, but now I realise why some people
may be driven into thinking that they are faced with a 'dilemma' - cats, babies,
but not both.

As far as I can make out, the main reason is the one about potential smothering
of the infant by the cat.  I was really interested to read the last couple of
notes saying that this is in most cases probably due to Cot Death.  Even if
it isn't, there are many things that can be done now to prevent the cats 
sleeping on the infant, so that to me, is not a worry, just something to be
aware of when the baby arrives.

I guess what I'm trying to say is that, if you listen to enough of these stories
and advice from other people, it is difficult not to get unduly worried about a
potential situation.  So I can see how your sister could have reacted in the 
way she did.  Nobody wants to be brought up in court as an irresponsible parent.

I am pleased that your sister has 'seen the light' and hope everything goes 
well with the new baby.  I for one am not going to get too concerned with all 
the 'warnings' about keeping cats with babies and hope to show my children what 
it means to care and be responsible for another being.

[Ruth, Henri, Sophie and 'the lump']

    lynn-
    
    Thanks for elaborating....your sister seems to be the exception.
    
    M

    
    Yes, I think its been an education for all of us.  
      Nancy

    I am printing .60 for my daughter-in-law.
    
    Thank you.
    
    Flo