Conference misery::feline_v1

    Hello, Rosemary, and welcome! You sound like a very dedicated cat lover. 

    Several years ago I had an experience which sounds similar to yours. 
    While the problems may not be the same, I wanted to share my story
    because it might shed some light and be of help to someone out there.

    My two sealpoint Siamese Alfie and Junie were 14 and 13, respectively, 
    at the time. They had been together since kittenhood and always got 
    along well. They ate, played, and slept together, and would sometimes 
    fight, but it was play-fighting. They were indoor-only.

    Alfie and Junie started to get into serious fights, with clumps of 
    fur and spots of blood on the floor, and some screaming. Since Alfie 
    was the older, dominant cat I assumed he was the instigator. It wasn't 
    until I caught a fight just beginning that I saw it was meek and mild 
    Junie attacking Alfie. When they started fighting I put them in separate 
    rooms for a while to cool off. They'd be ok for a couple of weeks then 
    it would happen again. There was no apparent reason for the fights; 
    I assumed that it was a power struggle. They went to the vet for a
    checkup; he had no answers either. 

    About 6 months after the fighting started, Alfie got sick so I took him 
    to the vet. He was diagnosed with diabetes and kidney failure; he died 
    at the animal hospital while being regulated on insulin.

    Then I remembered that Junie had previously shown similar -- although 
    not such violent -- behavior with another of my cats with a long-term 
    illness. I also remembered hearing how a mother cat will kill a deformed 
    or sick kitten to encourage survival of the fittest. Putting two and two 
    together, I suspected that Junie sensed the other cats' illnesses and 
    was trying not to kill them, but to drive them away. A couple of years 
    later Junie started the same behavior with a cat who had feline leukemia. 
    There's no doubt in my mind now as to what he was doing.

    Anyway, this may well NOT be the cause of your cats' problem; I'm sure 
    there are other explanations for such behavior. Have Pip and Domino had 
    a thorough checkup by the vet recently? If not, I would recommend doing 
    that just to eliminate a physical cause. The vet may also have some 
    ideas. Don't give up -- there *is* an answer!

    Wishing you the best of luck,

    Linda, Misty, Cubby, Tweetie, Toby, and Peanut

    Besides going to the vet, which I agree with, because pain can cause a bad
    temper as well, here are some random suggestions:
    
    If there is another cat invading their outside territory, they
    may become aggressive towards each other.
    
    Perhaps they are competing for your attention if you are away
    a lot.
    
    In each case, I would try the behaviour modification that I use
    with mine when this crops up from time to time.  Pet them both
    for awhile when they are reasonably close together, so they will get
    used to being calm in each others' presence.  Also, if they don't
    stay around near the other cat, they miss out on that petting session.
    
                    

    How is this for a stupid suggestion .... What about the weather?!?!
    Its been pretty hot and sticky recently, that might make them a bit
    grumpy.
    
    
    Lisa plus Pookie (in Reading, UK - yes there are some cat lovers
    over here!)
    
    

    Speaking of Feliners in the UK - Where's Phil??
    
    I have no suggestions to offer on your problem - but I will second
    the idea of a thorough exam with blood workups.  
      
    And WELCOME!!
      Nancy DC

    Hello everyone - thanks for your suggestions.
    
    I took both cats to the vet about six weeks ago when Domino got
    his first bad bite. They had through checkups, jabs the whole bit
    & apart from Dominos bite (which was treated separately) they were
    pronounced fit.
    
    However, my neighbour has just told me that there is a new cat in
    the area - a ginger tom, so perhaps he's the answer. I haven't seen
    him myself yet but I'm keeping an eyeout. Perhaps when territories
    are re-established they'll settle down again.
    
    I think there's something in the weather suggestion as well, it
    has affected their temper in the past although not usually this
    much.
    
    Anyway the good news is that Dominos leg is now completely healed.
    Lets hope he doesn't get into any more serious fights.
    
    Best wishes
    
    Rosemary, Pip & Domino
    

    Hi Rosemary, I hope your cats are getting along a little better.  I'm
    writing because I've experienced a very similar thing with my own two
    'girls' and in my case it was definitely related to the amount of
    attention I was giving them (just as someone (Karen?) suggested
    earlier.)
    
    On certain days I come home from work, may have to do an errand or two,
    but will basically be home by 6:00 p.m. and I can spend the rest of the
    evening with them.  It's not like I'm doting on them every single
    minute, but I live alone with them so (I'm sure you understand this), I
    do find myself talking to them and patting them quite often.
    
    On particular nights however, I don't come home from work right away,
    or I do, but then have to run right back out again and will not 
    come home until about 8:00 or so.  When this happens, I'm usually
    running around like a nut, getting things ready for work the next day,
    etc., so although I would initially pat and talk to them as soon as I
    got in the door, after that I'd get caught up in what I had to do
    before I went to bed.
    
    Well, that's when the ruckus would start.  You would think there
    was a massacre going on in the other room if you could hear the two of
    them.  My two, usually VERY docile, sweet cats, would be wailing the
    dickens out of one another, screaming to high heaven, fur flying all
    over the rug (I mean I NEED this at 9:00 at night, right?).... and of
    course I'd yell, and things would chill out, but then son of a gun, the
    next night, the same thing .....  What would slay me was the
    dramatics of it all.  I mean we are talking here about two elephants
    disguised in cat outfits.  When they rumble they RUMBLE.....the lamps
    on the tables shake, pictures fall..... I can't begin to tell you how
    many times I've nearly poked my eye out trying to put on eyeliner while
    these two were bombing through the house!
    
    Anyways,I don't remember when it finally hit me, but all of a sudden I 
    did come to the realization that it was only happening on the days/nights
    where I was gone a lot.  So on days like this, I began making a point
    of really making a big deal out of them, brushing them (tell me they
    don't run my life....), etc., and sure enough, in this case, it was the
    answer.
    
    So good luck with your situation and if all else fails, try this.
    
    Have a lovely weekend everyone.
    
    Chris, Casey & Ebony 
                      

    D'you know .6, I think you may have got the answer there.  Reading your
    reply has made me think about my movements lately, which have been very
    haphazard and irregular.  This weekend was the first time in ages that
    I had to relax with the cats and shower them with love and affection.
    (also it was raining, so they were inside for most of it).  THat's when
    I noticed they were playing again for the first time in ages (sort of
    corresponds with training them to permanently use outside so that I
    could get rid of the litter tray.)
    
    I think what I'm going to start doing is confining them indoors from
    now on in the evenings, so that I have the chance to love them more!
    
    [Ruth, Sophie and Henri]

    Thanks Chris you could be right. I have been away a lot more lately.
    Like you I live alone with my two boys and they do get a lot of
    attention when I'm there. Also, like Ruth I've encouraged them to
    go outside & in the warmer weather they spend more time in the garden
    or out hunting, so even when I'm in I don't see so much of them.
    I was around all weekend and they did get a lot of fuss and there
    was a lot less fighting - until last night. Like yours they sound
    more like elephants than cats when they get going & its often in
    the middle of the night. I was up early with them this morning trying
    to sooth them because world war three had broken out at the top
    of the stairs! Eventually we all ended up in bed together -
    thankgoodness its a double bed because even then theres hardly room
    for me!
    
    With the weather breaking this weekend & things getting cooler &
    fresher, tempers were also a little less frayed. I'm going to spoil
    them rotten for a while & see how they go.
    
    Thanks everyone for your help.
    
    Love Rosemary, Pip & Domino.
    
    PS Domino has eaten next doors guinea pig so I'm hiding from the
    Neighbours!

    Great everyone, I hope the suggestion is the answer and peace reigns
    once more....  Tonight is another 'test' for me, I won't be home until
    8:00...  I'll pay for that dearly unless I play up to them.....
    
    I had to laugh when you mentioned how they started battling in the
    middle of the night.  Aren't they incredible sometimes?  You're in the
    middle of a deep sleep and you just about hit the ceiling because of
    this unbelievable war whoop someone just let out.  Or, even worse, it's
    one of those silent but deadly fights where you're once again in the
    middle of a good sleep, and out of nowhere, these two cows go
    pounding over your head.... THEN, after ALL this commotion, after they
    manage to get you up good and aggravated, make you yell your brains out
    at 2:30 a.m. ..... 15 minutes later, all 3 of you are in bed together,
    like nothing ever happened.....
    
    Anyways, I really do enjoy writing to you guys, it's so good to share
    stories with folks who can relate to your situations without thinking
    you need your head examined.....
    
    Take care and Domino (burp!) you bad boy, I hope you didn't get
    indigestion....

	I have two cats which play-fight.

	The older one was bitten on his back leg by a local tom, and it came
	up quite badly.

	The vet said that this is the time of year he gets 80% of the 
	"cat-bites". The toms are re-marking their territory, and out to look 
	for females. If you neutered tom tries to keep a little of his territory
	- fight time.

	It took a month for my two cats to get settled again, and play-fight 
	instead of really fighting and hissing.

	I expect time will sort this out - a new cat in the area - especially
	if it's a whole tom - isn't helping the situation much, as he's 
	probabally trying to establish his territory - and some of it may
	"belong" to your two.

	Good luck,    Heather   (Reading, UK)

    I have 2 cats, Rusty (2yrs old) Lily (18mths) and they are indoor
    cats.
    On the whole they get on very well and are great company for each
    other.
    But they are also terrible attention seekers, I have noticed that
    if I get in and I am busy with something else, they start fighting
    each other, although it is only playful, they create as much noise
    and devestation as possible. As soon as I stop what I'm doing and
    pay them a little attention, they curl up and purr contently.
    
    I have also found that if I get home later than usual, or if I leave
    them a long time over the weekends, they wreck the place !
    Plants are knocked over, newspapers are shredded, toilet rolls are
    destroyed, books are chewed, and they have even been known to pee
    in the corner of the hall.
    When I get in and am confronted with all this, they just look at
    me as if to say "well what d'you expect if you're gonna stay out
    late !"
    
    Then I just make a consious effort to spend more time with them
    and give them loads of TLC (tender loving care) and they are fine
    again !
    
    Sometimes they drive me to distraction, can't live with them, but
    can't live without them.
    
    Fran, Rusty and Lily. (Reading U.K)
    

    A couple of suggestions come to mind.  One is to confine them when
    you are going to be late or away.  At least that way you minimize
    the damage that they can do.  
    
    Another suggestion is to confine them when theys start "play fighting"
    and doing damage.  If you give them attention as a response to their
    behavior you are just reinforcing that behavior.  If you lock them
    up or squirt them with the spray bottle then you might be able to break
    them of this habit.  After they've been confined for 15 mins or so
    and are quiet then you can go up and release them and give them
    attention.
    
    Nancy DC