Conference misery::feline_v1

    I would take her to Tufts.  As in previous notes in this file, they are
    supposed to be the best.
    
    Good luck to Mandy - it's nice to know there are people like you who
    really care about their pets.
    
    Anna/Zildjian/Spunks
    

    I agree - go to Tufts.  And PLEASE keep us posted on her progress.
      Nancy DC

    
    In 1987 my Hamden had a cancer under his tongue. First of all the
    vet should determine what kind of cancer it is. The information from 
    the biopsy should include the type of cancer. Some oral cancers
    in cats can be treated. 
    
    Kirk

    RE: .3

    The type of cancer is Hemagenial (sp?) Sarcoma (something to do with
    blood vessels) and Squallous Cell Carcinoma.  Apparently there is a 
    lump in her tongue that moves,  so they can't do a partial amputation.  
    This is suppose to be a very aggressive cancer.  I have an appointment 
    with another vet this afternoon.  Mandy seems to be doing well, though.
    She's eating and drinking fine (even eating "crunchies"), and she's
    still very playful, and is purring all the time.  I had asked the
    vet who did the biopsy if he had any idea how long we have - days,
    weeks, months, years - and he had no idea (or at least wouldn't give
    me an opinion).  I guess we'll take it "one day at a time".

    I'll give a report of what the new vet says....  

    Keeping the fingers crossed...

    Linda

    Please let us know what is happening with Mandy.  (Why can't they
    cut out the lump?)  I second the idea of taking her to a specialist.
    

    Go to Tufts..................
    
    I did and it worked.  When I first got Black Thunder, she had a *lump*
    or *growth* under her tonque.  My regular vet put her under and removed
    it.  Within two weeks it was back.  We tried all sorts of medicines
    including prednilosone which effected a color change on her fur.  She
    now has a few *streaks of silver* running under her belly.  Nothing
    worked.  She was eating and drinking and playing and loving like any
    normal kitten.  She just wasn't growing up (in weight).  We sent
    biopsies down to Tufts and they suggested a few things.  We finally
    brought Thunder down to Tufts and they removed it with laser.  She had
    such a hole in her mouth but that didn't deter her from eating.  That
    was over a year ago.  I decided at that time that I would not put her
    through any more surgery or radiation or chemotherapy or anything that
    would hurt her.  If it came back again, I was just going to love, love,
    love her as long as I had her.  I still have her and she is pure love.
    
    Too make a long story short *?*, they were wonderful.  They went over
    all my options and what medicines we could try and what her chances
    were with each.  They didn't push any decision on me but did go over
    each one in depth.  
    
    They also told me that my vet had done the right things in all cases. 
    That made me feel good.
    
    There is one thing to remember about Tufts thou.  They are expensive. 
    If you are tight on money I would get a quote up front.  The quote I
    received up-front was about 2/3 of the total.
    
    Good luck.  Do keep us informed.  If money is the problem, I can help
    out a little.
    
    Sandi and White Lightning, Black Thunder, Storm, DejaVu and Patches
    			alias the *STORM TROOPERS*
    
    
    

    Well, I took Mandy yesterday to Dr. Silberhorn at the Norton Animal
    Hospital.  He found that she has a Grade 3 heart murmur, but he said
    that that was not something to be real concerned about, just something
    he has to watch in giving her anaethesia.  (The vet that did the biopsy 
    said nothing of this, so whether or not it was neglect on his part, or 
    she developed this in the last week, I don't know.)  He said that he 
    doesn't like chemo or radiation therapy and would not recommend it.  He 
    was going to talk to the vet that did the biopsy last night.

    Dr. Silberhorn called last night after talking to the other vet and
    said that he is pretty sure that he could operate and get it all.  
    Apparently the lump that is under the tongue moves, therefore it is not 
    attached to any of the tongue structures.  (side note: The biopsy did go 
    to Tufts to be analyzed.)  He said that if it was his cat, that he would 
    do it (he's devote animal person, and has had many a pet).  She's a 
    young cat and has never had any health problems up to now.  The chest 
    x-rays showed that the cancer has not entered the chest yet, and her 
    lymph nodes are fine.  I have to call him on Wednesday (tomorrow), and he 
    will give me an estimate, and I will have to give him my decision.  She 
    will have to stay in hospital for several days, and will have to have a 
    feeding tube for awhile.  (I'm not sure for how long...it's a question I
    have to ask him.)   Dr. Silberhorn has an excellent reputation, did
    an excellent job on the delicate eye surgery that Mandy's daughter
    Maxie had, and has a reputation for saving a lot of animals that
    normally would have died.  He's seems to be quite up on the latest
    in vet care, and will go out of his way to get information to help
    his patient.  (In Maxie's case, he contacted some big experts on
    eyes in D.C. to get the latest...).  I really don't think that he
    would do the operation if he thought he couldn't do it.

    So, I have to make a big decision....  Do I put her through this, or
    not?  I'm leaning towards the operation.  I'm trying to make this
    decision on what is best for her, not for me.  I really think, though,
    that she really wants to live (I can see it in her eyes), and that I
    owe it to her to do what I can.  I don't want to put her through a lot
    if it is only going to "save" her for another month, or diminish the
    "quality of life".  Time is of the essence because he has to do this
    before the cancer spreads.

    What would you do if Mandy was your cat?

    Has anyone had experience with feeding tubes?  Does the cat experience
    a lot of pain with this?   Is it difficult to feed a cat through the
    tube?  Does the tube go down the throat or will it be attached through
    her throat or side (another question for the vet...)?

    Linda

    PS  Thanks for all of the offers for some financial assitance.  You are
        really terrific people.  My mother and I are splitting the cost of
	the operation, if this is the direction we go in, and my grandfather
        is willing to loan me money if need be, so hopefully I won't have
	any problems with the finances.  Thanks, though, for the offers.

    Linda, the feeding tube is the best way to go - feeding an animal
    while it's not feeling well speeds recovery - when the animal
    doesn't eat, it get weaker and recover takes longer.  Young
    cats recover VERY fast - it sounds to me like your second vet
    is saying all the right things.  Maybe he will work out a payment
    plan to take the stress off your budget.  Sounds like they are
    very nice to work with!  I don't think your vet will send her
    home with the feeding tube, but if they do, they will show
    you what to do.  I think they will just keep it in until the
    area is healed enough so the cat can eat.  The feeding tube
    will prevent food getting in to the area of surgery.
    
    E.

    I have had to tube feed kittens from time to time, when their mothers
    weren't able to nurse them.  The procedure is safe, fast, and can
    save a cat's life.  There may be some mild discomfort while the
    tube is inserted, but the process is very quick, and it will keep
    the cat alive.  Don't worry about the tube feeding part, it will
    be okay.  
    
    I had a cat with a heart murmur once, Jesse.  The heart murmur wasn't
    discovered until Jesse was about 13 years old, and by a vet so young,
    that he looked like a boy scout.  I doubted him at first, thought
    that he must be wrong, since no one else ever noticed it.  Well,
    my vet said that if anyone would notice it, the boy scout would,
    since he specialized in cardiology!  Jesse lived to for another
    6 1/2 years, and the heart murmur was never a problem for him. 
    
    By the way, the boy scout became my best vet, until he joined the
    peace corps and went to Honduras to teach the people to raise healthy
    cattle. :^)
    
    Jo

    Yes, my Ivan was diagnosed with a tripple murmur at the ripe young
    age of 7 weeks.  The vet told me that he would just drop over.  
    Needless to say, I was overwhelmed - went to three other vets for
    other opinions - one a week for about three weeks, but as the weeks
    went by, the murmur became less and less audible.  Ivan Ivanovich
    is now 3 years old, and weighs about 15 lbs.  A very tall handsome
    boy - and very healthy!  Ivan was three in March !!
    
    E.

    Please let us know how things are going.  The thought of the operation
    must be really scary, but it sounds to me like the right thing to do.
    

    
    RE: .11  - My thoughts exactly. You'll be in our thoughts...
    
    Marlene & Bailey

    If she were my cat I'd opt for the surgery.  It sounds as if the
    vet is fairly confident that he can get all the cancer so you're
    not trading the surgery for just another month or two.  I also
    think that while this will be scarey and uncomfortable for her
    it will not be torture.
    
    In otherwords, I think the benefits of the surgery far outweigh
    the risks/discomfort/cost.
    
    My parents put their then 9 yr old dog thru surgery on her knees.
    This was two separate operations.  Mindy, now 10 yrs old has 
    pretty much full use of both back legs and his quite healthy
    and happy.
      Good luck
       Nancy DC

    Well, I talked to the vet this morning about Mandy.  He says that
    without the operation she has no chance of survival and we would
    have to put her to sleep in about a month.  If she has the operation,
    she'll have about a 50-50 chance of survival.  If he gets all of the
    cancer, she'll live a normal, happy life.  If he doesn't, then it
    will probably only give her a couple of more months.  There is also a
    possibility that it has already travelled into her chest and x-rays
    aren't picking it up (it only needs a couple of cells to go down to
    develop).  And there is also a possiblity that the tongue won't be
    able to function in which case she would have to be put to sleep.

    So....the only option we have is for her to have the operation, and to
    say a lot of prayers, and send out a lot of positive thoughts...

    I'm real upset with all of this, but there is nothing else we can do....

    Mandy's going to go to the vet's tomorrow for an EKG - to make sure her
    heart is ok to withstand the operation - and bloodwork to make sure she
    hasn't got Leukemia (she was tested when we first got her, and she
    didn't have it then, but Dr. Silberhorn said that in young cats like
    her that start developing tumors, a lot of times they have Leukemia -
    he just wants to double check before putting her through the operation).

    If the EKG and bloodwork check out, she'll be operated on Tuesday.
    Dr. Silberhorn said that she may be in hospital for one or two nights
    depending on how she is, and that a feeding tube will be inserted into
    her neck.  He said that he's not sure how long she will have the tube.
    It depends on how fast she heals, and when she can start eating solid
    food on her own.  He said it could be a week, but at most a month.

    Will keep you updated...

    Linda

    
    sending good vibes to mandy.  good luck with surgery and recuperation!
    
    diane, s & s
    

    Sending lots of prayers and good thoughts - 
    
    
    Love from Giudi, Pippin, Gino & Stitch

    And please let us know how things are going.
    

    Good luck with the op. I hope MAndy comes through it OK.
    
    Hoping for a swift recovery,
    
    
    Lisa plus Pookie.
    

    I'm saying my prayers.  The got answered when I prayed to catch
    Penny, lets hope I can go two for two.
      Good luck
       Nancy DC

    Well....just got back from the vet a little while ago.  Mandy was a
    perfect little angel during her tests which really amazed the technician.
    Apparently an EKG is very difficult to do on a cat because they have to
    lie on their side and be very still.  The technician said Mandy didn't
    move a muscle....  (I'm so proud of my baby!)....

    I'm feeling more positive about it all...  I should know by tomorrow
    afternoon if the operation's a go for Tuesday..  Will post the results...

    Thanks for all of the prayers, good thoughts, etc...  Mandy and I and
    the rest of my gang really appreciate it...

    Linda

    
            Lots of prayers for Mandy......I remember how awful it was
    for me to make these decisions when 3 of mine got FELV.
            Hopefully all will work well......
    
                               Denise and the gang of 7

    I talked to the vet today and the EKG was fine and the blood work was
    good.  The only thing that showed up in the blood work was that Mandy is
    a little dehydrated which is explanable considering the stress that she's
    been under (she's been to the vet about 8 times in 2.5 weeks, plus
    having the biopsy done and staying overnight in the hospital), and of
    course the sore tongue after the biopsy....

    So, the operation is on for Tuesday morning....  Will keep you posted.....

    Please keep them prayers, good thoughts, etc. coming!.....  Thanks!

    Linda

    Keeping my fingers crossed for you!
    
    Lisa plus Pookie.
    
    

    
    Mandy had her operation yesterday morning.  So far, everything seems to
    be going real well.   The vet said that the lump under her tongue was
    NOT a tumor, but some kind of hematoma.  Apparently when he sliced it
    open all that was there was blood (and he was quite surprised).  He still 
    removed the right side of her tongue and has sent it out to be analyzed.
    She should be coming home tomorrow.  They are trying to get her to eat on 
    her own so that they can remove the feeding tube before she comes home.  
    Her tongue was a bit swollen this morning, and they gave her a shot to
    ease the swelling.  Dr. Silberhorn said that he is quite pleased at how 
    well it went.  I should know more tomorrow....

    So-o-o-o, I'm very much relieved (not a 100% yet, but calmer than I
    have been for the last couple of weeks).  I don't know, yet, if she
    is completely "out-of-the-woods", but it sure does look promising!

    Linda

    I'm so glad that things are going okay.  It sure sounds
    confusing.  Hugs to Mandy from us and please keep letting
    us know how she's doing.
    
    Karen, Sweetie, Holly, and Little Bit
    

    I am so pleased that its going so well! Keep it up!!
    
    Lisa plus Pookie.
    

    Linda...
    
    Good for you!  When the docs seem pleased, that always makes me feel
    good.  Hope the little one recovers in record time.
    
    diane stella stanley
    

    That IS good news!!  Glad to hear it.  pats to Mandy for me.
      Nancy DC

    I read in one of the puplications by Rodale, in fact I believe that
    it was in Prevention Magazine about feline leukimia that was treated
    with vitamin E and was very succesful!  I'll check it out to see
    what the dosage was.  I'll be back in a couple of days

    Here's the latest update....Sorry it's late, but I've been real busy.

    Well, Mandy came home Thursday night (4/12) with a feeding tube in her
neck.  I spent the weekend giving her her food and water through the tube in
addition to her medicine.  It wasn't too bad.  The only problem I had in the
beginning was getting the cap off the tube.  I felt real bad for her because
she wanted her crunchies.  She had tried to eat one, but choked a little bit,
so she was a little scared.  She managed to eventually eat a couple, and
eat a little of the soft food, but the tube seemed to be interfering.

	On this past Monday, she had the tube removed.  He was very pleased
at how fast she's healing.  The only problem is with the lab results.  When
the vet sent the portion of the tongue they removed to the lab to be analyzed,
the vet wanted the lab to not only determine the type of cancer, but to
also analyze the edges to see if he removed all of the cancer.  The vet
removed what he could see with the naked-eye plus an additional 2 mm.  When
they got the lab results back on last Friday, the only thing the lab did was
determine the type of cancer.  They did not do the edges.  So the vet had to
call them back and ask them to re-analyze the edges.  On Monday, the vet told
me that this lab result came back as inconclusive.  So, I'm wondering if the
lab had already thrown out the tissue and just said this.  The vet doesn't
know what to do right now.  He said that they way the lab had worded it, it
was like "you may have gotten it all, but we can't really determine if you did,
so we don't think so".  I have to bring Mandy back to him on Tuesday.
There is a possibility of another operation in which the whole right half
of her tongue will be removed.   I guess we're back to a "wait and see"
situation.

	Mandy seems to be doing real well, and is back to her old self.  She's
eating on her own, and playing, and doing all of the "typical" cat things.
She's now a punk-rocker, though....8^).  She has half her neck shaved and
one of her front legs shaved.

	Will keep you updated....  I don't know what will happen...

Linda

    We will hope for the best, but in the mean time give her
    lots of hugs from our furfaces, Mocha and Ming (and me too).
    
    She must be one tough little kitty to have undergone all this 
    and returned to eating and playing all ready.
    
    Keep your chin up and do keep us posted.
    
    Barbara

    Hugs to Mandy from all of us.  I remember once hearing some
    tissue that had been sent out for checking reported as "grey" which
    was explained as "they don't know", so maybe the lab did still keep
    the sample.  We have our fingers crossed.
    
    Karen, Sweetie, Holly, and Little Bit.
    

    Cats are amazing in their ability to take what life throws at
    them.  Good luck and lots of hugs to Mandy.
      Nancy DC