Conference misery::feline_v1

    Kitty,
    
    I believe that what you are referring to is another man-made breed by
    the same woman and group of breeders that created the ragdoll.  I am
    not certain what makes up this breed nor do I know anyone who has one
    but there are a few people in this conference who have communicated
    with the woman "Ann Baker" who supposedly created the original ragdoll.
    
    Roberta, am I right??
    
    Nancy

    Yes, Nancy, that is correct.  The pictures of Honeybears look like
    sweet-faced Persians to me!  I have no idea what types of cat were
    crossed to produce a Honeybear.  The breed is not recognized or
    accepted in any of the cat associations, yet sports a hefty price
    tag of $350+.  I have talked to Ann myself, but we discussed Ragdolls,
    not Honeybears (for a discussion on Ragdoll cats see note #2106).
    Ann is not a "together" sort of person.  She is very old, and
    a bit senile, so our conversation did not go very well.  She is
    an extremely bitter woman.
    
    I would be very leary of spending that amount of money on a cat
    that (1) is not recognized by any of the cat associations, and (2)
    is probably just another mixed breed cat in a fancy coat.  But,
    it might not hurt for you to contact one of the breeders listed,
    ask some questions, and let us know what you come up with.
    
    Inquiring minds want to know!
    
    --Roberta
    

    Or for the latest and greatest new breed from Ann Baker, how bout
    those "Miracles", a new and improved version of the Ragdoll!! ;^)
    (this was intended to be very sarcastic, but not offensive to anyone)
    
    The cats that Ann Baker breeds are not recognized by any registering
    body in the US or abroad.  They are only purebreds cause she says
    they are, and because she spent some money to get a patent on the
    name.  IMHO, a patent does not a new breed make.  I admit, the pictures
    of the Honeybears are very cute, remind me alot of my Jesse, who
    had the muzzle of a Maine Coon (maybe a bit shorter), but the coat
    of a Persian.
    
    I agree Roberta on all counts.
    
    Jo

    I noticed the ads for Honey Bears too...looked like a typical long
    haired kitten to me, albeit with a _slightly_ Persian face (but
    then all kittens' faces seem a little smushed.  :)
    
    There was yet another break...Cherubs??  Oh, and I think one more.
    Geez, the money you can make by simply getting a "type".  ::sigh::
    
    (ever notice that most cat breeders are women??)
    
    ---kim

    Aha, Jo Ann got it.  That was the other cat -- Miracles.  :)
    
    

    Kim, I think that is "Cherubim's" - non fighting cats. ;^)
    
    Jo (who always reads Ann Bakers ads to cheer herself up at the end
    of the day)
    
    

    Jo,
    
    Your note cracks me up!!  re: .0 you are gathering by now that people
    who have answered you are not impressed with the information they have
    gotten on cats being bred by Ann Baker.  The Ragdolls, Miracles and
    Honey Bears bred by Ann Baker are a man made breed of cat.  Personally,
    I would be very suspicious of health problems in catteries whereby so
    many different breeds are being created and experimented with.  I am
    sure you don't need to be told to just be careful and be observant in
    furthering your inquiries into these cats.  I think that if you do
    speak to Ann Baker yourself you will readily come to your own
    conclusions.  
    
    Let us know if you come up with any interesting information.  We can
    all benefit from your knowledge.
    
    Nancy

    This note reminds me of a conversation I had with some um... person
    at the catshow in Hudson.  He had a scottie fold kitten entered and
    I swear that the kitten's tail was no longer than 4 inches!!  We got
    chatting, and being the relatively tactful sort (sometimes) I didn't
    comment on the cat's tail.  so he starts telling me about the various
    scottish folds he has from different breeders (this particular one
    was a Nancie Belser fold) and how he wants a Hardacre (Beverly) and 
    a Costa (Tony) fold to finish his collection.  Nothing wrong with that.
      The he told me that he wants to get a Manx and cross the Manx with
    a fold!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!  I just gave him a funny look and
    asked him why he'd ever want to do that.  Fortunately, just then I
    had to go pick Bonnie up from the ring cage.
      You know, Manx's have a lethal gene in the line and folds do not. 
    Its last thing we need!  Later I was chatting to Beverly and mentioned
    this guy.  Apparently I'm not the first that he's expressed this
    intention to and I doubt he'll  ever get a Costa fold or a Hardacre
    fold.  I hope someone straightens this guy out!!!!!!!!!!!
      Nancy DC

    Please explain the nature of the "lethal gene" in Manx's...?
    
    Feline curious,
    Ditto's slave Susan

    The lethal gene is connected with the taillessness.  You cannot
    breed two tailless manx together.  All (or is it most, now I can't
    remember) of the kittens will die.  Most will die in utero. Manx
    must be bred to tailed manx in order to have surviving kittens.
    They must get the gene for taillessness from only one parent.  That
    is why many kittens in the litter will be born with tails, some
    will also get the gene for a tail.
    
    Jo

    I guess it's sort of like you have to breed a folded ear fold to
    a straight ear fold 'or else' you will have serious problems.
    
    E.

    Not to clutter up this discussion, but then what is the
    rationale for docking tailed Manx?  Doesn't seem like they
    are a threat to society or anything...
    
    (Heaven help me if I'm starting a fire here....I just want to know;
    some friends of mine went to a lot of trouble to replace a Manx
    who died and they have neat personalities....but I was surprised
    to find out that both cats were docked, tailed Manx's.)
    
    Susan
    

    Docking tails is as controversial a subject as declawing.  I don't
    believe in it personally, it sounds like a very painful procedure
    for the animal.
    
    There is a new breed called American Bobtails.  They are similar
    to the Japanese Bobtails but with less angular features.  The AM
    Bobtail breeders also dock tails.  I would never purchase an animal
    that was maimed in this way.  That is how I view docking tails,
    cropping ears, etc.  Don't fool with mother nature has always been
    my motto.
    
    I don't believe there is a rationale for docking the tail of any
    animal simply to suit our human fetishes for these so-called desireable
    features.
    
    How would these breeders like to have a part of *their* body cropped?!
    
    'Nuff said!  I think this note is getting way off the topic of
    Honeybears :^).
    

    The reason that the breeders dock the tails of the tailed Manx kittens
    is so that they can find them homes.  No one wants a manx with a
    tail.  I see it as more of the demands of the buying public than
    something that the breeders want to do, or look forward to doing.
    I have a friend who breeds Manx, and she has tried and tried to
    avoid docking tails, but then she can't place her pets.  The buyers
    just go to another breeder and buy a kitten that has been docked.
    The docking is done when the kittens are only a few days old.  I
    had to have a kitten's tail docked once, due to a severe kink that
    was cutting off blood supply to the end of the tail.  Even though
    it was done to save the kitten's life, I had trouble dealing with
    it.  I am sure that the majority of Manx breeders view this as
    something they would rather not do.
    
    Jo  

    re: Folds - there are some mutations associated with the folded
    ears.  I'm still learning but the ones of which I am aware
    are skeletal in nature - like the stiff tail.  If you ever go
    to get a fold kitten watch them walk - if the kitten is "knock
    kneed" in the back legs do not buy it.  
      Another problem results in the toes being "splayed".  There is
    no lethal gene.  I don't know much about the manx lethal gene other
    than what Jo posted.
    
    
    Anyway, we should get back to Honey Bears.  Perhaps we should start
    a new note on "docking".  I didn't know any cat breeder did that.
    

    Good idea, Nancy.  I'll delete my note regarding the procedure for
    docking tails and send Jo a note off-line.
    
    If I have time today, maybe I will contact one of the Honeybear
    breeders listed in Cat Fancy and report back with some info.