Conference misery::feline_v1

    HI!!!!!!!!
    
    I had a cat approximately 21 years too...... she could of been older.
    She was very active up until her last year.  She had her days of
    playing and the next alot of sleep.  Back then, we never brought her to
    the vets, she never had shots or any problems.  She was not suffering,
    by her last month, we knew something was wrong.  We hesitated in
    bringing her, new it would be the end, as humans, we are selfish in
    this act.........
    
    We brought her, and they said she was full of cancer.  We had to put
    her under......it was a very sad day, as in any case.  As I said, we
    had no real sign till very close to the end.  She was like a sister to
    me.
    
    So your kitty could just last and last...........I believe she'll go
    herself, unless she shows signs of illness.  I don't know of a certain
    age.......limit.  So God Bless her.......and keep lots of memories!
    
    CW
    

My vet is currently treating a 24 year old siamese....

if she is slowing down (and this is a recent, noticable decline in
activity), you may want to take her in for another check-up..other
than that, I would simply up her "yearly" visit to a "bi-yearly"
visit (to verify kidney function - most likely to fail first)
and enjoy her time with you.

Nice that they can survive so long, isn't it?

    I've heard of cats surviving into their 30's. The oldest I knew
    was 25, but she, unfortunately, was not healthy. She could hardly
    move for arthritis and was incontinent and blind.
    The owner couldn't bring herself to put the cat to sleep and it took a 
    lot of convincing from us that she really was being cruel to the cat.
                                                     
    If a cat is not unhappy in its old age, good luck to it!! 

    The figures I've heard are that an indoor cat can live to be 18-20+
    yrs old.  The numbers are, of course, much lower for indoor/outdoor
    cats.  Lets see if I can remember my figures right here -
       Back in the 1600's there are records saying that cats lived
    to be around 6 or 7.  Just 30 years ago, cats lived to be around
    10-12.  Now they live into their 20's.  Amazing, isn't it!
      Nancy DC
    
    p.s. Those figures are from a cat trivia book -  provided memory
    serves.
    

    What about pure-bred cats?  I've heard that pure-bred dogs don't live
    as well as "mutts".  Is it the same with cats?
    
    Pam

RE: longevity and "pure-bred" cats

Interestingly enough, vets first became aware of the potential longevity
of cats in general due to their Siamese patients living so long back 20
years ago or so......it was later determined through observation that
the "real" factor in determining longevity was not the breed, but the
lifestyle of the feline.  In a nutshell:

Indoor-only cats that receive attention, daily play/exercise, and the
proper diet live the longest.  Indoor/outdoor cats AVERAGE lifespan
is contingent upon the environment - in the current "urban" environment
in the U.S., considering the impact of FeLV and other communicable
diseases (including parasites), the average lifespan for an indoor/outdoor
cat is 4 years in the southern/southwestern U.S. and 2 years in the
northern/northeast U.S.. These figures where published approx. 6
years ago, so they may no longer be current.  Three years ago, San
Jose, California published a report citing 2 years as the average
lifespan of an indoor/outdoor cat...this was reported in the local
paper and I don't know the science behind it.  The report stated
this was the average lifspan of indoor/outdoor cats everywhere.

Some pure breeds do seem to live longer than other pure breeds....
this is according to my vet who lives with and LOVES persians...she
said that the persian did not live as long as the more "greyhound"
shaped breeds.  I have read nothing scientific concerning this.

    Wow, only 2 years for indoor/outdoor kitties?  That's terrible.
    Chewy's almost 3.  Thank god nothing has happend to her outside.  She
    is only out for 2-4 hours after I get home from work.  She doesn't
    spend all day outside, so I guess that reduces her risks a little.
    It's so sad.  I know it is safer to keep a cat indoors, but that seems
    like depriving them (of course if they know no better....).  There's
    so much for a cat to see outside.  They can run in the breeze, climb
    the trees etc.  Of course there's all the dangers too.  I'm afraid to
    let Zula out.  I brought him outside for the first time this week.
    There's quite a bit of woods around our apartment so they shouldn't
    have to go near the roads.   He was having a ball romping through
    the high grass.  I think I'll only let him out when I'm outside though.
    Chewy heard Zula meowing and came running out of the woods to greet
    him (of course with a hiss, she still can't let him know that she
    really likes him).
    
    On a sad note, and a strong point to keep your cats indoors only, 
    my husband found our neighbors cat under a car yesterday.  Her jaw
    was completely gone.  She was up inside the engine when the guy 
    started up his car.  I felt so bad.  He brother was looking all over
    for her last night.   He looked so lost.   I'd guess she was about
    2-3 years old.
    
    Pam
    
    ps.  Sorry, guess this note should be moved into a indoor/outdoor note.

    
    
    	Before reading the Feline Note File, I owned an indoor/outdoor
    	neutered male shorthaired tiger "Popeye".  He found us one
    	morning when he was 6-8 weeks old.  He adopted us and lived
    	with us for 18 years.  We lived in Nashua the first 15 years
    	of his life and then moved to the country and he lived there
    	3 years.  He was getting gray around his face, but otherwise
    	was in pretty good shape.  He weighted 18 lbs. and lived on
    	can cat food from the grocery store.  Now remember, this was
    	BEFORE I started reading this file, I'm alot more informed now
    	and if I ever get another cat, I will do it different.  Well
    	anyway - he lived a long and happy life with all the wrong food
    	and living indoor/outdoor.  So some do OK
    

    I'm so sorry about your neighbor's cat.  I'm so attached to my
    neighbor "nephews", I know how you must feel.
    

    If you send me the name of your neighbor's cat I'll add it to
    the Silver Lining Memorial list.
    
    re: Zula - how about leash training her?  Then she can have the best of
    both worlds.  Our cats LOVE being outside on the leash - tho they'd
    probably prefer to do without it.  They also LOVE the 2nd story deck.
      Nancy DC

    Strange, until I started reading this notesfile, I never knew there
    was any reason to confine cats indoors. It seems the popular concensus
    here, and I do respect every individuals decisions, but I would
    not even consider confining my cats to the house. It just does not
    seem natural. I can hardly believe mother nature never intended
    them to catch bugs and climb trees and all the other "cat" things
    that they do outside. My two are outside almost constantly during
    the summer, in the winter they like to come in at night...they are
    allowed to come and go as they please and just usually choose to
    be outdoors. I have 7 acres of my own land and it is a very rural
    area. Rarely do I see them near the road, but I do know they cross
    to play in the woods on the other side. They are taken to the vet
    whenever neccessary, have all the proper vaccinations, and are
    fat and healthy (on 9-lives bought at the grocery store). It is
    hard to imagine them being happy confined to the house. When we
    are not home they have access to the barn for shelter, and seem
    to enjoy hanging out with my horse in her paddock. I really think
    that it is personal choice and would have to say that except what
    I read in here I have rarely seen friends or family or neighbors
    confine their cats indoors. One of mine is going on 7 yrs old,
    the other 2. I hope no one takes offense, I do not mean to critize
    those who choose to keep theirs inside, I just wanted point out
    there are people who choose the other option and have it work out
    perfectly well......
    

    re: .11  - the choice of indoor vs outdoor is a personal one and is
    based on a number of factors including the nature of the area in which
    you live, past experiences, personal philosophy regarding cats, and
    to an extend the effort you are willing to put forth. 
      I live in a fairly urban area on a heavily travelled street.  I lost
    my first cat because I let her outside.  I personally believe that
    I can substitute other things for the "outside experience" like a
    second story deck and feel that it is my responsibility to leash train
    the cats and spend a certain portion of my day in the good weather
    outside supervising the cats out on their leashes.  (That's not to say
    that folks who don't leash train their cats are lazy or anything)
      When all is said and done, we all love our cats and we all have to
    live with ourselves and our decisions.  
      Nancy DC

re: .11

The information I entered was gleaned from my reading of various
publications and I attempted to convey exactly what was printed,
regardless of my personal opinion...there are many other notes 
which cover the indoor-outdoor issue at length.  I did not intend
to turn this note into another one.  However, I would add one
additional comment.  Your cats being in a rural area is fine for
your cats, but may not, in fact, be "fine" for the natural fauna
of the area.  Cats, no matter how well-fed, are voracious and
talented hunters and can change the natural balance of "prey"
animals like mice/squirrels/chipmunks to predators who rely on
these animals as primary food sources.  The animals that do
belong in the area are often either driven away or become
hungry enough to take on their competition - then the cat
becomes DINNER.  

Your cats are not native to the area - no domestic felines are 
native to the north american/south armerican or European areas 
of the world, with the possible exceptions of very narrow regions
of Scotland and the German forest (ranges of Scottish wild cats and
German forest cats - our cats' nearest relatives)...nor are
they native to Australia/New Zealand.  In many areas of the
world, domestic cats have greatly increased the pressure on already
endangered species.

There are several good reasons to control the places to which your
cats have access.

    re.: .13
    
    What local animal (local is southern NH for me) will eat a cat for
    dinner? 1 of my cats goes out (he was an old stray when I found him and
    I cannot possibly turn him into an indoor cat, although I have
    successfully turned former strays into indoor cats) and he has
    stand-offs with a red fox. Is a fox or weasel likely to attack a 
    fat cat (cat weighs 20 lbs)?
    
    thanks,
    Shirley
    
    

    re: .14
    
    Look out for coyotes! We have them in increasing numbers in rural
    parts of western Mass. They have been known to kill and eat cats.
    Also over the last few months we are having a big problem with people
    abandoning sick and dying cats, and we are seeing increasing numbers 
    of abandond dogs that are turning 'wild'.
    
    For 35 years I let my cats come and go at will (daytime only) and
    never lost a cat. Now due to the above reasons I don't dare let
    Jesse out.
    
    I hate penning a cat up in the house, but around my house the risks
    have gotten too high.
    
    Kirk

    re.13
    
    There have been years that I have not had a cat. In one of those
    years the area became infested with mice, the mice became infested
    with Deer ticks, I got bitten by a tick. This happened before anything
    was made public about Lyme disease. My doctor said that if someday
    I 'came down' with arthritis to notify the Centers for Disease Control
    in Atlanta. As a result of the years that went by before my problem
    was diagnosed and treated I have been left with joint damage, and
    a case of Lyme disease that only goes into remission after treatment.
    
    Without a cat hunting outdoors I have a problem, I won't resort 
    to saturating my property with poisons that are not selective and
    will end up in my drinking water, there is too much area for traps
    to be any use, the owls, hawks, foxes, and other 'critters' don't
    hunt close enough to the house to help. I guess what I'm trying
    to say is that some control of vermin may be a good idea.
    
    Kirk

    The only problem with letting the cats control the vermin is that
    they are susceptible to Lyme disease also.  
    
    Jo

    It's too bad that the owl is becomming so rare in these parts. They are
    better mousers than most cats.
    
    Deb

    Also, watch out for owls and hawks.  Both will prey on cats if they are
    hungry enough.
    
    Denise
    

      Larger, wildcats (ie, Bobcats and Lynx) will also devour housecats.
      
    
      Natural or not, I am most swayed by the fact that indoor/outdoor
    cats live an average of 3 yrs and indoor cats live an average of
    20 years.  I don't think it's natural to be run over by a car. 
    Kudos to those who haven't lost a cat that way.
    
    ---kim

I've moved what used to be reply .21 to note 8 which is the original
Indoor/Outdoor note.  I thought there was a better chance that NDC's
excellent information would be seen by future noters in a topic where
it's more relevant (hint, hint).

Not meaning to be a grouch, but could we carry on indoor/outdoor
discussions in note 8 and leave this note to discuss aging in cats?

Thanks,
Pam

    
    Hi all--
    
    I've just searched through all the aging notes and haven't found
    an answer to our problem.  Our oldest, Momma Kitty is gettin on
    and like some of the other noters, we don't really know how old
    she is cause she adopted us from the street.  She had a tough life
    before we took her in, as her torn right ear can attest to.  We
    lived in an apartment at the time and she roamed around the 
    neighborhood, sleeping and eating where she could.  Her "sister"cat,
    Duchess and her were "owned" by two sisters in the next building,
    both of whom drank a lot and didn't take good care of their cats.
    That is how we aquired both of them, as well as Isis who was a kitten
    at the time, out of a litter from one of the other cats in their
    "care".
    
    Anyway, the problem we have now is that M.K. is getting feeble and
    can't defend herself from the younger ones.  The other night we
    had to break up a fight (not playing!!), and rescue M.K. from Sable.
    (I have puncture scars for the effort).  This is happening more
    frequently and I can't figure out why.  I too, haven't had experience
    with elderly cats, so find this perplexing.  My housemate, Cindy
    seems to think it might be instinctual like the lions in a pride
    driving out the old members who can't fend for themselves.
    
    Anyone have this happen or have any suggestions, please add to the
    note.  One of the things we will do is get her back to the vet for
    a checkup.  A few years ago she tested positive for Feline leukemia
    but hasn't contracted it, yet.  Maybe it was brought on by old age?
    
    Thanks for any help
    
    Debbi  M.K., Duchess, Isis, Sable and Jasper
    

    I would certainly have MK checked out by the vet, just in case.  I
    have two other guesses about how to approach this problem:
    
    1.  The other cats may be upset for some reason, either because
    they sense MK is not well, or because there is something else going on
    in the environment (is your roommate new? are you working longer
    hours? strange visitors?...) so a bunch of extra love and cuddles
    may help.
    
    2. (In addition to the above) make it clear that "real" fights
    are no-nos.  I say NO in a very loud voice, or thump on the
    floor if things start to get out of hand.  I usually "reward" the
    victim with cuddles and then after a few minutes cuddle the criminal :_)
    so s/he knows s/he'd still loved (not too soon -- you don't want them
    to get the idea that attcking will result in cuddles.)
    

    I also suggest a vet visit.  I have heard of cats attacking
    housemates because the victim was sick.  Perhaps this is an
    early warning sign.
      Nancy DC

    
    
    HI--
    
    M.K. is much better, it seems that she had a cold and I guess the
    others just didn't want to catch it!!  We went to the feed store
    and got her some dry kitten food, which she is devouring.  I noticed
    that she was having trouble with the regular dry food, choking and
    spitting it back up--so we went with the kitten food.  Seems to
    have done her good as she is a lot more lively.  
    
    We're just going to have to learn to deal with an overbearing,
    demanding, selfish old b**ch!!  Not that she wasn't that way to
    begin with, just more so!  Can't sneak any Chinese food by her--
    she demands, LOUDLY, that she wants some--and you d**n well better
    give it to her!
    
    Aren't they all just soooo spoiled??
    
    Thanks for the input.
    
    Debbi