Conference misery::feline_v1

    This is just my opinion.
    
    I have had cats ever since I was born.  My parents never took our cats
    to the vets.  I realize that nowadays it is different and we know alot
    more about our pets, but we can go overboard.  I personally feel that it is
    acceptable to bring my cats to the vets for their shots, when they are
    terribly ill or if I suspect that something is wrong.  I do not agree
    with teeth cleaning.  Unless the gums are bothering them or they have
    something wrong (abcess, etc) I feel it is unacceptable to knock them
    out just to give them a teeth cleaning.
    
    I keep very close eye on my two, and albeit they are very healthy cats
    and don't have chronic illnesses, I don't feel I have to rush them off
    to the vets everytime they hiccup.  I realize that it usually takes a
    cat to be very sick before you realize that something is up, that is a
    chance we, excuse me, I take in having pets.
    
    As for the cost, it does sound a bit high, but the luekemia shot IS
    expensive.  I opt for not giving my two that shot cuz they don't go
    out, but again that's a chance I take and the decision I made.
    
    Just my opinion, FWIW.
    
    Anna/Zildjian/Spunks
    

    
    Hi,
    
    It sounds to me like your new vet is right on target, and is very
    concerned about the health and well-being of your two furry friends.
    She sounds very conscientious and thorough, you are lucky to have a 
    vet that cares!
    
    On the price of the shots, if that included the office visit you are
    not doing too badly.  I also have two cats and an annual office visits
    (I bring both cats in at once and they only charge me for one office
    call,) including shots, feline leukemia, rabies and Uri protection for
    both, usually runs me about $95.00.
    
    As for the tartar on the teeth, check their teeth yourself.  Is the
    build up severe?  Do you want to risk their getting gum disease and
    having to be put under to have teeth removed?  How old are your babies? 
    Young cats will bounce back faster than older ones from any anesthesia.
    Try the dry food and see is there is a change for the better.  If not
    talk to your new vet and ask her reasons for wanting to do the
    procedure.  If she is as good as she sounds she will be more than happy
    to explain her reasons to you.
    
    As for the urine samples, again she sounds like she wants to monitor
    your cat for signs of trouble before a full blown infection or blockage
    can occur.  Remember, she did not see the initial bout with FUS, she
    needs some data to go by.  Again, discuss with your vet her reasons for
    wanting to take the samples.  If it makes sense to you, fine if not,
    then at least you are making an informed decision.
    
    Good luck with your new vet and I hope your two fur babies stay happy
    and healthy!!  :-)
    
    Feline Fine,
    
    Sue & Panther & Spot
      
    

    I'm sorry but I find this hard to believe!
    
    Your vet says that you should have your cat's knocked out so that you
    can have their teeth cleaned????!  Sounds absolutely ludicrous to me! 
    What did cats do for all these generations without us cleaning their
    teeth for them?  They'll be bringing out cat tooth brushes next!!
    
    And what about a full manicure for their claws?  Don't want them
    getting TOO dirty now, do we?!
    
    If you give them enough stuff to 'crunch' on mixed in with their food that 
    should be enough.  I think you'r vet's having you on.  I'd certainly
    get another opinion if you choose to give these remarks any importance
    (which I personally would not).
    
    As for the urine samples, well that's all very well but judging by the
    teeth-cleaning requirements I wouldn't be too surprised if your vet
    used this as a good excuse to see you more often - and we all know what
    that means......!
    
    [Ruth, Sophie and Henrietta who are spared going to the dentist!]

    Companies are marketing dental kits for cats - tooth brushes, tooth
    paste, and a pick to remove the tartar.  If there is a LARGE amount
    of buildup, their gums can become VERY infected and the cat will
    lose their teeth.  Some cats can have the chronic gum infection
    and only have a small amount of buildup.  My KoKo had this problem
    for years, and she had to have all her teeth removed.  Sometimes
    even cleaning their teeth doesn't help.  It didn't with KoKo.
    
    
    E.T.

    I don't think cleaning cats teeth is common in the UK. I have
    certainly never had it suggested for my two - they are almost
    2 years old - and I've never heard of anyone else.
    
    Lisa plus P&P
    

    I give up.... the world's going mad!
    
    When they bring out the manicure sets I'll seek psychiatric help.
    
    Mind you, if there's enough mugs out there who are willing to buy cat
    tooth brushes and tooth paste (and not forgetting the cat tooth pick
    of course), I suppose I can't blame any entrepreneur to start a business to
    manufacture them!!
    
    Don't worry -  I'm British so I don't understand these things!
    
    Actually I agree that if the build up is visibly bad then it's
    probably time to do something about it, but I think it's ludicrous
    to start cleaning their teeth unnecessarily, and this is the impression
    I got from the base note.  Just wait till we start hearing reports about 
    the cats' teeth being erroded from too much brushing, or that the tooth
    brush is carcenagenic!
    
    [Ruth, Sophie and Henri who have to eat their dinner without toothpicks]

    Re: Urine sample:
    
    	I can just picture that process now:
    
    		"Jesse, take this little bottle into your box and....."
    
    Re: Tooth cleaning:
    
    	"My" Vet advises feeding dry food often to help keep teeth clean.
    So far with any of my cats the Vet has been able to remove
    any tarter build up at yearly check-up time without using any
    anesthetic. However he has told me that some cats and dogs have
    severe tarter problems that require regular cleaning. In that case
    he says that if cleanings are not done that just like in a person
    the dental problems can degrade the overall wellbeing of the
    animal.
    
    
    Kirk
    

    Sorry, .5 and .6, but I'm in the U.K. and two of my three cats have
    had their teeth cleaned.  My previous cat, Tullus, also had his
    teeth done.
    
    This involves a general anaesthetic, and a thorough cleaning of
    the teeth.  The reason is that tartar builds up on the teeth of
    cats being fed an unnatural diet (and all our cats are fed an unnatural
    diet), and can cause very sore gums.  If left untreated, the cat
    will lose its teeth.
    
    I believe that my cats were all somewhere around 4/ 5/ 6 when their
    teeth were done.
    
    Helen.

    Ok, ok, I'm one of the suckers that brushes my cat's teeth ;-) ;-)
    --- but I told the vet I won't floss.......
    
    Charm is 9 years old and has gingivitis (mild). She recently had
    her teeth cleaned under anethesia.  She had it done about 2-3
    years ago before I adopted her.   She gets to free-feed dry and
    it doesn't help much.  I have decided to take the preventitive route
    with Charm because she is older and I am concerned about her having
    anesthesia at her age.  Hopefully this will work.  I use dental pads
    rather than a kitty-tooth brush (a people brush will work - but make
    sure it is a soft-bristled one) since the first time we tried it
    Charm grabbed the toothbrush and flung it across the room - a rather 
    violent act for a normally soft-spoken and mellow siamese!  She will 
    put up the with dental pads, but I still get dirty looks.  Charm is
    not convinced she needs to worry about dental hygene.  ;-) ;-)
    
    When I was growing up my parents had a siamese who went to the vets
    once to get fixed and never cast a shadow there again for the next
    19.5 years.  I don't know what the answer is.  I just do the best
    I can....
    
    Mary-Michael

    My D.P. Gremlin is presently fighting with a case of gingivitis and
    when it was discovered he had this, the vet recommended cleaning his
    teeth and gums twice a day with gauze and Listerine.  Since D.P. is
    also my only cat (of 5) that has suffered from a urinary problem and
    had to go from a mixed diet of dry and canned cat food to JUST canned
    (Science Diet), this was probably how he developed gingivitis.  Three
    of my cats are on dry and canned Science Diet, and my 5th cat
    (Midnight) is on dry Science Diet (dry is fed in the morning only to
    all but D.P.) and canned "Old Mother Hubbard" at night. (Midnight
    refused to eat SD but loves OMH.)
    
    My oldest cat, Buffy, has some tartar buildup but I do use the
    manufactured pet toothpaste (malt flavored) for them all, including my
    14 year old toy poodle who doesn't like dry dog food or milkbones.  
    However, I don't think this is as good as possibly raw vegetables but 
    not all cats and dogs will eat raw vegetables.  Vet told me if they
    did, they probably wouldn't develop tartar buildup.  Maybe that's why
    my horse has such nice teeth when she smiles!   ;-)
    
    With today's cats and dogs getting unnatural diets (lack of bones,
    hair) that probably benefited in healthier teeth/gums, gum disease is
    one of the important health checks by the vets as my vet said it could
    also be the cause of other medical problems for our pampered pets.
    Don't get me wrong now, I'm not for feeding my pampered pets a whole
    carcass each meal but since the manufactured foods don't leave certain
    beneficial ingredients in it, our pets will have to rely on our (& vet)
    check/care of their teeth.  My cats are indoors only, so what they
    might catch inside wouldn't have fur or bones (unless a rodent wanted
    to commit suicide and ventured in).  They go nuts over a stray moth or
    fly though.
    
    Pat, Holly, Thai, D.P., Buffy, Midnight (& Cookie)
    

    About your $$$$$.  I took two of the kids in for their last FeLV
    shots, and it cost me $50, so your cost sounded O.K. to me.  While
    they were there, the vet checked the teeth and picked one cat's
    tooth that had a bad buildup.  They have free-choice to dry to help
    keep down the tartar.  Because their diets are not natural, I do
    believe teeth cleaning is needed.  Get familiar with the look of
    clean, healthy cat teeth.  The tartar looks like someone has plastered
    yellow putty to the teeth, making the lines fill in, irregular and
    sharp angles that may cut the inside of the mouth, and chewing
    problems.  Not to mention the gum disease and tooth loss, plus the
    agony associated with it.  
    
    But, if in doubt, see another vet for a second opinion!  It sounds
    like your not to sure about your current vet.
    
    
    
    L- & the gang

     Pookie will let me brush her teeth, I also work with on this, and 
    Presshie is also learning that is  part of our routine. I have found
    that "a childs toothbrush works better than the adult cuz it is
    easier  for you to hold, and "kids aren't as distracted by it"..
    ie smaller, they each have one, and one to play with.. we have
    mickey mouse, minnie mouse, and strawberry shortcake..Pookie
    is quite copperative even for Dr Eric, she "even expects him to do
    it ".. she opens her mouth.. and waits, and she is good for me too..
    Happy is getting beeter about it, and Presshie seems to be ok
    about it.. she hads to be  distracted for a bit.. we play
    games while we  do it.. My vet gave me smething called
    Novadent, it is like a mouth rinse, I also use that
    and apply it with a dental pad..Dental care is just as
    important  for our furfaces as t is for us.. Presshie ahd
    her 1st""dental exam last week, whne she was there
    was her Kitty shots.. and they said she was quite
    well behaved.. Feb is dental care month at my vets and he offers
    discounts, so I take advantage of that Pookie was in about a week
    ago  for a visit (tests) and he did her dental care then, and Happy
    was in about 2 weeks ago for hers.. I do suspect that I will be
    hearing for Guido(Happys bookie et al on that one though..
    Kate

    My vet has gotten my 3 used to having their teeth gone over as part
    of their yearly, without putting them under.  He gets in there with
    a scraper and gently chips the tartar, etc. away, goes over the
    gums and teeth with a solution and, believe me, it doesn't take very long.
    I'm not saying that they like it but they're very good about it
    - and I'm not charged for it either.  This is the first vet I've
    had that has ever done this and I'm glad he does.  He also will
    take care of their teeth if they should have to go in for something
    else.
    
    Anybody else out there have a vet that does this?  
    
    
    Giudi, Pippin, Gino & Stitch

    Cosette and Fantine had their first tooth-cleaning when they
    were about 12.  One of them had a *filling* at that time also!
    
    Each of MY fillings is bigger than a cat's entire tooth, I think.
    
    	:-) 

    .14
     Yes even Root canals, Pookie had one done...
    Kate

    I sometimes think that vets overreact to this teeth cleaning stuff.
    In December, I placed a six month old female Birman kitten in a
    new home.  In her well-kitten visit, the new owners vet told them
    that the kitten had *severe* gingivitis, and would have to have
    her teeth cleaned immediately for $94.00, and that she would have
    to have it done at least once a year, preferably twice a year, for
    the rest of her life.  Well, needless to say, they were quite upset.
    I took the kitten back, and took her to my vet to have her teeth
    cleaned.  My vet called me at work and said that there wasn't anything
    to clean off!!  Luckily she had checked before anesthetizing the
    kitten.  My vet told me that she felt it almost impossible for enough
    tartar to build up to require a cleaning in a cat that was only
    six months old.  When I told her what the previous owners vet had
    said, she said that the only explanation that she could think of
    was that December was a slow month for vet's traditionally and/or
    that the vet saw this as a way to have regular income from the new
    owners.
    
    Anyway, my current cats range in age from 14 weeks to 9 years. 
    None have had there teeth cleaned.  Most have fairly clean teeth,
    but they eat mostly dry food.  Jesse was 19 when he died, and he
    had never had his teeth cleaned either.  Monroe, the 9 year old,
    does have some tartar build up, but we usually scrape it off in
    the office without putting him under.  I have the Nolvasan dental
    rinse and will occassionally rinse their mouths with it, but I have
    never been consistent about doing it.
    
    I have a very conservative vet, and she doesn't believe in putting
    a cat under to clean their teeth unless they are going under for
    some other reason, or unless they are having some trouble with their
    teeth.  I agree with her.
    
    Jo

    Cat dentistry is obviously the career of the 90's!!
    
    Ah well, ...if Sophie and Henri's teeth DO decay I suppose I could
    always consider cat dentures for them in the future..... ;-) ;-)
    
    
    (I guess .18 will tell me they already exist...)
    
    [Ruth - in total agreement with .16]

    As human medicine advances, so does animal medicine!  Why shouldn't
    cats have teeth problems? They use their teeth for the same purpose
    we use ours and we spend time having our teeth cared for
    professionally.
    
    Years ago, I saw the result of gum infections, bad teeth and tartar.
    This poor kitty ended up with a massive infection that spread to
    his jaw and had to have a piece of it removed!  All because of poor
    dental hygiene.
    
    My two kitties have had dental surgery twice in their life (they
    are 11 years old).  I have seen their teeth with the tartar buildup
    and agreed that the surgery was necessary.
    
    Our new veterinarian leans towards preventing problems rather than
    treating problems and he has recommended a dental spray that is
    supposed to keep the tartar from building up.  I spray it on a dental
    pad and just wipe their teeth a few times a week.  They aren't thrilled
    to have this done but as far as I am concerned, it's much better
    than knocking them out for surgery.
    
    Nancy/Snuggles/Orphan Annie
    

    
    	Rosie came to me when she was less than a year old. She
    	is a petite cat, weighing about 6 pounds. Last fall, I 
    	took her in for her yearly shots. Two days later, she was
    	down to five pounds (that's about a 15% loss) and had a 
    	fever of 104. She was lethargic, and her fur looked 
    	terrible. The cause?? She had a severe tartar build-up,
    	and when her body took time out to `fight' her vaccinations,
    	her resistance to the gingivitis lowered so much that it
    	was able to get into her bloodstream and cause a systemic
    	infection. Now, this is a severe case, and Rosie is a 
    	delicate kitty, but I think there are times when having
    	the teeth scaled is neccesary for the health of the cat.
    	I wouldn't have it done once a year, but if you can't even
    	define separate molars because of the tartar, I think you
    	should consider a cleaning before the teeth die and fall
    	out...
    
    	Sherry, Rosie, Missy, Squeek and Sarah
    

    I'm back.........(Carol Weston)-- so I'll reply to this one!
    
    I have a note, back in December, early, I had Scruffy go in for
    her first shots, and our vet recommended her to come back and get
    her teeth scrapped!  I didn't like the idea, of returning her, for
    she was not thrilled in visiting the VET AT ALL!!!!!
    
    So we brought her in.................she was put under and I picked
    her up late in the day............I called "5" times during the
    day to check on her, I was so worried, cause I knew she was going
    to be pretrified.........for she is an indoor/outdoor cat.
    
    She was so upset, drugged up and sore!!! She wanted to go out!!!!
    She was to be kept in for 5 days!!!!!!!!!!! NO WAY!! I was so upset
    for her I cried.
    
    My responses for "TEETH" cleaning, were alot were done and felt
    it was necessary and it would be best for Scruffy.  I agree with
    the REPLYS HERE!  That it is beyond rediculous, unless your baby
    has a problem resulting from it.  ALSO............I was not recommended
    to give her DRY CAT FOOD..........I thought it would help, but no
    suggestions.  So I give her some, when I think of it and will do
    more, now..........but she WON'T go back to have them cleaned!
    Shots and andy illness yes!
    
    

    A small rule of thumb might be to:
    
    Look in the cat's mouth - check the back teeth - if you see chunks
    of yellow buildup, and you can't just pick it off with your nail,
    which usually works, then you 'may' have a problem.  Also, if you
    check their gums, and they are red and look sore or bleeding, then
    you should keep a very close eye on the cat.  
    
    If there is nothing to scrape off or to pick off, then don't have
    their teeth cleaned.
    
    E.T.

    
    Good rule, thanks E. T.  My two will let me scale their teeth with a
    fingernail.  Panther is very good about it.  Spot has to be put in
    'restraints' (I pop her in a sturdy pillow case with only her head
    sticking out) and she growls and fights me every step of the way.  But
    I manage to do one or two teeth per session.  It is a good idea to get
    young cats used to your checking in their mouths.  It will minimize
    'accidental' bites later on.  
    
    Feline Hygienic (Dental),
    Sue & Panther & Spot (Please don't put anything but food in my mouth)
    

Tasha, at age twelve, had to have a fang removed a couple of
years ago due to infection -- I almost lost him.  He did not
handle the infection and subsequent surgery well at all.

I now brush my three cats' teeth each morning with small baby's
toothbrushes.  Yesterday at their annual visit, Dr. Conti said 
that the tarter buildup was under control on the two older cats. 
He flakes off the tarter with his fingernail and believes that
daily brushing helps weaken the tarter already present.  The 
little one has slightly inflamed gums -- he thinks this will be
a livelong problem for her -- but no tarter buildup.

Diet:  a.m. - Iams mixed with a 1/3 teaspoon of wet 
       p.m. - Dry only

Advantages:

    Sweet breath                (hah! old smelly mouths before)
    Less gum inflammation
    Less tarter buildup

Problems:

    None -- the cats just love it.  (a little sarcasm here)

Should You Attempt It?

    Only if you see problems (ref E.T.'s rely).  

    If it ain't broke, don't fix it.


			-- Julie