Conference misery::feline_v1

    
            I read that ordinary clay litter DOES irritate the tender
    paws after surgery.  I haven't had a cat declawed myself, though.
    There is a special litter made of cellulose type material which is
    excellent.  It's in CATS magazine.  They even deliver!  Probablly 
    would get to you before he comes home, I imagine they ship UPS.
      It's totally natural, free of silica problems associated with clay
    litters, and can be safely composted.  It's also light.  They 
    recommend it's use after declawing.
    If you're interested I'll send the info.  I've been thinking of trying
    it myself. I've got seven,  so having lightweight litter delivered 
    sounds great to me!  
                                       Denise

    
    	Marylin, I hope you won't really declaw Otis.  Neutering,
    naturally, is definitely goodness, but not declawing.
    
    	Do you always keep Otis indorrs, or does he go outside frequently?
    If you allow him to roam, then you shouldn't even consider declawing.
    He will be utterly defenseless in the event of attacks by dogs or
    other animals.  He wouldn't even be able to climb a tree to escape!
    	Even if you don't normally let him out, there's always a
    possibility that he could get out by himself.  Bear that in mind.
     I'm a firm believeer, and always have been, that cats should be
    left with their natural defense hardware.  All too often we humans
    decide to modify them to suit our needs.  In my mind, that is the
    ultimate crime.  Animals were made the way they are for certain
    reasons.  When Man goes changing that, we are only doing damage
    to Nature in the long run.
    	Sure, Tiffany is smaller than Otis, and you want to be defensive
    of her.  I can understand that.  But, if Otis accidentally scratched
    her eye, it wasn't because she lacked her own claws.  It would have
    happenned anyway.  He could just as easily do that with his teeth
    in similar circumstances.  Will you remove those, too?
    	If Otis also damages furniture by scratching, then get him a
    scratching post and teach him to use it.  It's not that difficult.
     I'll send you a long letter on some ways to do that.  In the meantime,
    you must realize that in deciding to be owned by cats, you also
    took on the risks involved in that.  Live with it.  But please,
    do not declaw him.  He will experience unnecessary pain (would you
    like having your fingernails ripped out?) and will be left ultimately
    defenseless.  Give it more thought, I beg you.
    	As an example, did you ever accidentally scratch your child(ren)
    with your fingernails?  Would you remove your fingernails just because
    that happenned once?  Or, would you simply apologize and rack it
    up to experience?
    	I don't mean to sound like I'm preaching here, these are just
    my thoughts.  Naturally, you have to do what you think is right.
     Just remember, I have a vested interest in this one.  8^)
    
    	Bob_who_gave_Otis_to_Marylin_and_would_rather_have_him_back_
    	than_see_him_declawed
    

    Yes, Marylin, it's been a long time since Otis was three mnths old.
    I hope you will reconsider and not have him declawed.
    
    

    Marylin - ONE of the 10 cats in current residence at our place
    is declawed.  That's Flame and I DIDN'T DO IT!  From what I've
    heard, Flame's behavioral problems started after his declawing.
    So there's one thing to consider.  
      Secondly, Flame is a rambunctious guy, big, but not the biggest
    (Isis is right up there with him and Bob isn't far behind) and there
    is NO indication whatsoever that he is at any kind of disadvantage
    because he has no front claws.  
      Have you never played with a "clawed cat"???  Most of them learn
    to keep their claws retracted when they play.  (We're still working
    on Bob)  They do the same when they play with each other.
    
    Finally, One of the other FELINER's was telling me about a beautiful
    scottish fold that was available at a local shelter.  The catch,
    She ABSOLUTELY REFUSED TO USE A LITTERBOX.  She had been declawed and
    the experience had been so painful for her that she refused to use her
    box regardless of what filler was in it.  Now, I suspect that her
    humans didn't know enough to substitute shredded newspaper for the
    clay litter and/or her vet did a real butcher job, but the result
    was the same.  She was unadoptable because even caged with a
    litterbox she's use the floor of the cage rather than the box.
    
    I know there are plenty of good stories about declawing, and there's
    also plenty of notes about it, but I just wanted to let you know
    about my experiences with Flame.
    
    BTW - Bob and Jasmine both had the "inside" claws removed on their
    double paws because those claws tend to become ingrown and pose
    a health hazzard to the cat.  Neither seemed to notice that the
    claws were missing.  Of course, they had more than enough other
    ones to make up for it.
      N

    
    	Having your cat declawed is your decision, and some
    	of us in this file need to remember that...However,
    	you need to be sure that your *reason* for having it
    	done is accurate...Many cats, once they realize that
    	claws are no longer one of thier options for defense,
    	will go to the next best option, BITING. So, you may
    	not be eliminating the problem you are worried about,
    	instead you could just be redirecting his method of
    	protecting himself and/or tussling with your other 
    	cat. DOES he really cause harm to the female? Do they
    	get along? Don't forget that his aggressive behavior 
    	may subside after he is nuetered. Please be sure you
    	discuss this thoroughly with your vet before you 
    	have the surgery done, you may not need to do it at all.
    
    	Sherry, Rosie, Missy, Squeek and SARAH!
    

    When I originally entered this note in the file I debated whether or
    not to mention that I was having him de-clawed...I knew it would
    creat a controversy...but I also wanted to be honest with what
    was happening.
    
    Both cats are indoor.  Tiffany has only been outside to be taken
    to the vets and when I moved from Lunenburg to Leominster.  Since I
    have Otis he has never been outside - other than to go to the vets.
    Tiffany has never shown a desire to be outside and neither has 
    Otis...both are contented in playing with each other, basking in
    the sunlight, and are very people oriented.
    
    I had an extremely long discussion with the vet - she explained the
    procedure to me - in detail - was neither pro nor con and told me
    that the decision to have it done was entirely mine.  I fully
    understand what the procedure entails and I must admit it does
    sound painful...I would not want it done to ME.
    
    If it was just Otis - I know what my decision would be.  I do
    have a concern AND a responsibility for Tiffany, as well.
    They are aggressive when they play - I know Otis would not
    deliberately hurt Tiffany - but he is twice her size.  She
    now retreats....I believe she is intimidated by him.  Yet,
    when he is sleeping or relaxing - she will clean him and copy
    his every move.
    
    I want to do the right thing - but somehow I feel that whatever
    decision I make - one of them is going to be in pain.
    
    Either way - deciding to keep his claws or not - he still has
    to have surgery...for the neutering.  My original note was
    requesting help/advice as what I can do for OTIS before 
    surgery - so that he will have a speedy recovery.
    
    Thanks,
    
    Marilyn
    
    

    Hi Marilyn,
    
    I do understand how hard it is to make decisions of this nature.
    I' sure you don't want to hear any more 'drivel' on the declawing
    issue.  I had two siamese years ago and had them both declawed.
    I, for the life of me, now, can't remember why.  I wish I hadn't
    done it - won't go into details.  I now have 18 cats, soon to
    be 19+, they all have their claws.  They do need trimming every
    two weeks, but I have never had any problem with them hurting
    each other.  Please don't feel that I'm trying to persuade you
    in ANY way, I"m just passing on information.  I think there really
    are some instances when declawing is necessary - one of my vets
    said to me one day, that she would rather declaw a cat rather 
    than put it down.  People would come in saying that their furniture
    was being destroyed - whether or not they took time to get cat
    scratching furniture or not, I don't know.
    
    You just have to do what you think is right for YOU.  People here
    just really do care - it may come across differently, but the
    bottom line is that they care and just want to help.  Honest!!
    
    My one cent's worth is that one with and one without won't really
    cause you or the the one without any problems that wouldn't happen
    anyway.
    
    Thanks for listening,
    
    E.T.

    Marilyn,      (paragraph two is about your neutering concerns)
    
    I am sure by now you have heard enough about de-calwing, but I just
    wanted to add my two cents.  The biggest problem I have come across,
    is when a cat is up for adoption that is de-clawed.  If for any
    reason you could no longer keep your babies, I wanted to mention
    that I feel it is harder to place a de-clawed cat as they cannot
    go outside.  Most people have indoor/outdoor cats, and while some
    are lucky and get adopted to indoor homes only, de-clawing limits
    the cat's chances.  Also, biting can become an issue.  Otis can
    cause serious damage by biting your other cat, and some cats also
    pick up behavior problems from de-clawing.  He could become aggressive
    to make up for the lack of claws.  
    Enough said on this subject.
    Neutering is not a major type of surgery.  Both my guys were neutered
    last month, and other than a little "funny" walking, they were back
    to themselves in less than two days.  I dropped them off the night
    before, as they are allowed no food or water aft 6:00pm.  This made
    it easier on me as I have two other cats.  The Procedure is not
    very complicated.  They are knocked out, their eyes are given drops
    to keep them moist throughout the surgery (cat's eyes stay open
    when they are knocked out, so the vet puts wetting drops periodically
    on the eyeball to keep them from getting dried out.)
    The surgical area is plucked free of fur, the vet makes a small
    incision in both sacks (balls), ties off the connections and removes the
    internal sac from both sides.  The incision is left to heal naturally
    (no stitches, most times) and the cats are monitored until they come
    around.  I picked mine up at @5:00, and they were wide awake and
    ready to leave.  (Anethstetic (sp?) can make some cats vomit, so
    a waiting period for food & water is usually advised by your vet.)
    Of course, I worried about the surgery.  There is always a chance
    SOMETHING may go wrong.  They were my babies, after all.
    You may want to put shredded newspaper in the box for him until
    he heals.  Sometimes litter can get in & cause an infection.  
    Better to be safe than sorry!.  Hope this info helps you!
    
    
    Lynne & the Gang
    

    Thanks Lynne and to everyone else who has responded.
    
    The vet is going to operate on Otis on Wednesday morning and keep him
    until Friday.  He is a big cat and feels he is going to need that extra
    time to be monitored.
    
    I still have not made my final decision, as to the de-clawing, but will
    let everyone know when I do.
    
    I just know that when any living thing is put under anesthesia, there
    is that *risk*.  I love him so much, I just want him back home in my
    arms....safe and healthy.
    
    Thanks again...
    
    Marilyn
    

I appreciate the tact people have used in responding to this note 
since this is one of those topics that can cause high emotions.  
However, Marilyn has not asked for input on whether to declaw or 
not and the simple act of providing an opinion on the subject,
pro or con, can be perceived as threatening.  So I'd appreciate it
if responses addressed what was being asked.

Thanks,
Pam, co-moderator

    We had Erm declawed and spayed at the same time, she was only about 8
    or 9 pounds, and the vet still kept her for 2 days.  We dropped her off
    Monday morning and picked her up Wednesday evening.  By the time we
    picker her up there were no bandages on her paws (just the fronts were
    done) but we tried the paper in the letter box anyway.  That lasted
    about a day because both Erm and Misty just kind of tossed it all out
    of the box!  By Friday we were back to regular litter and had no
    problems.
    
    The extra time spent at the vets was good for us so Erm could get the
    bandages taken off and they could watch over her recovery.  It also
    meant one less trip to the vet becaue we had planned to have both
    operations done anyway at some point.
    
    Basically, you should get you cat back without any bandages and then
    he'll start to learn how to 'box' with Tiffany!
    
    Dave

    
    	Marylin, you might want to check with your vet, but in
    	most de-claw's and nuetering (_not_ spaying), a short-
    	acting, injectible anesthesia is used, instead of the
    	more risky gas. That was what the vet I worked for used,
    	your vet may procede differently. Nuetering takes about
    	fifteen to twenty minutes, declawing a little longer, 
    	both are straightforward and fairly simple procedures. I
    	would worry more if it were a female spay, so try not	
    	to worry about Otis too much...
    
    	Sherry, Rosie, Missy, Squeek and SARAH!
    

    Hi Marilyn,
    
    Re: your original question, I would suggest lots of love and attention
    (of course we do that already, I mean *extra* ;-) ).  This may sound
    weird, but talking to your boy about the operation seems to help too.
    
    When Bigfoot went in for surgery at the ripe age of 11+, we gave him
    lots of love and attention beforehand and we told him exactly what was
    going to happen and how it had to be done so that he could live (the
    vet said without the operation to remove a cyst, he would die).  People
    probably think we're weird, but Bigfoot seemed to understand.  His
    chances weren't that great, being on the elderly side for such a major
    operation, and that night it was touch and go; he even needed a
    transfusion.  
    
    But I think what pulled him through was his strength, will to live and
    wanting to come home to his family.
    
    This may sound weird, but it worked for us!
    
    Good luck!
    
    					- Andrea
    

    A friend of mine has four cats and she chose to have them all declawed.
    She brought 2 to her regular vet, and the other 2 to a vet who is
    not her regular vet, but one she had used on occasion and liked.
    
    Well, the 2 cats that were done at her regular vet came back with
    no bandages, seemed to be in no pain, and were running and jumping
    around within a few days.  The 2 cats from the other vet got a real
    hack job, and their paws took a long time to heal.  My friend was
    devastated and I won't go into detail about how she handled her
    emotion with that vet.
    
    So, I really feel that it is not so much the procedure of declawing,
    rather, it is who is doing the declawing.  Some vets are experts
    in this practice, and others are not.  I used to really be against
    declawing, but have lightened up on the subject, and like others,
    would rather see a cat declawed than put down, thrown into the streets,
    or given to the shelter.
    
    'Nuff said!  It is a personal decision, and I don't berate folks
    for considering it... as long as the reasons are justified.  And
    it seems that .0 has some very real concerns.
    
    
    --Roberta
    
    
    

    
    	Well, I've never had a cat declawed, so I don't know what that
    entails or what you can do to make the recuperation comfortable
    and rapid, but you've already gotten some good suggestions from
    the other caring folks in this topic.
    
    	I have to agree with the neutering consensus here, it's a very
    simple and straightforward operation requiring minimum discomfort
    and healing time.  I'd also parrot the idea of keeping him away
    from clay litter for a few days to insure the incision(s) do not
    get infected.  I've had a number of males neutered over the years,
    and nothing serious ever came of it.  They were all up and around
    like themselves in a day or two, and no sign of a wound in just
    a little over a week.  I'm sure Otis'll be fine.
    
    	Good luck,
    
    	Bob, Smoke, Sneakers (Otis' bro), and Nova (Otis' sis)
    
    

    Thanks to all of you for sending me your ideas - thoughts - opinions -
    and feelings regarding the impending surgery for Otis.
    
    My daughter (20) lives at home with me and Tiffany was a gift to her
    two years ago - and when she moves (????? she may live with me
    forever!!!) it will be just me and Otis.
    
    I any event.  I discussed the pro's and con's of having Otis declawed
    and we came to the decision not to have it done.  I read her each and
    every note that you all sent to me and we just aren't comfortable
    putting him through that kind of pain. 
    
    They are - and will continue to be - indoor cats.  He does not claw the
    furniture - I believe he will calm down some after being neutered - he
    will not be a 'kitten' forever - and Tiffany let's him know when he is
    getting too rough for her.
    
    Thanks for all your understanding, advice, help and support....this
    file is a God-send.
    
    Marilyn
     

    
    	Full support on your decision, love.  You're not making a mistake.
    
    	Many grins and hope we're still friends,
    
    	Bob (et al.)
    

    Let us know how Otis makes out!!
    

    Rusty & Pepper want Otis to know it wasn't so bad!
    
    Let us know how Otis does.
    
    
    
    L- & the gang

    When I had Smokey neutered (eons ago), he came home like nothing
    happened.  I kept wondering if the vet had forgotten to neuter him
    (only kidding).  
    
    All 3 of my current babies (all females) have been spayed.  They take a
    little longer to bounce back but all 3 did fine.  
    
    I was the one that went through *h*ll*  worrying about my babies.
    
    Good luck,
    
    Sandi, mom to Thunder, Lightning, Storm (woof-woof), DejaVu and Patches
                  the Stray
    
    

    Hi....well here is the latest.  
    
    I have been home sick - with the darn flu - or empathy pains...not
    quite sure...anyway.  Otis wouldn't leave my side, kept giving me those
    horrible 'how can you do this to me' looks all day.  He slept most of
    the day and when it came time to bring him to the vets he RAN
    downstairs and hid behind one of the boxes.
    
    How do they know these things?  It is totally beyond my comprehension.
    
    Anyway - my daughter finally got him and she and her friend drove him
    to the vets to spend the night in solitary confinement.  Oh - the
    thoughts of him being caged (he has NEVER been in one before), what
    if he is claustrophobic...could he go mad?  All night long I kept
    thinking of him crying in that thing.
    
    He is due to go 'under' around 8:30 and I am to call at 2:00 p.m. this
    afternoon and if all is well...I can pick him up between 6 and 8 p.m.
    tonight.
    
    Sorry for going on and on like this - the surgery is basically minor -
    but I can't be with him and I guess that bothers me - plus the loss of
    control.
    
    Thanks for all the support - will let you know how he is doing as soon
    as I hear.
    
    Marilyn
    

While the subject of neutering is being discussed...

Thor and Loki are going on 7 months old now.  We've noticed that the litterbox
has been getting quite a bit more, shall we say "pungent", lately.  At least
one of them must be maturing.  I've read up on neutering in the two cat books
I have ("The Natural Cat" and "You and Your Cat"), and they suggest waiting
until at least 9 months to neuter.  Our vet says it can and should be done
at 6 months.  Notes here in the conference say 7-10 months, and that some
people wait as long as a year...  So what's right?  The boys are both
indoor-only (not that they aren't interested in getting out to play with the
birds they see at the feeder... :).  Most of the concerns about early 
neutering revolve around whether the urinary system is fully developed.

Can I trust the vet's opinion, or should we wait a couple more months?

	-todd

    Most vets that I have spoken with on this subject agree that the
    age of neutering will not affect the cat's susceptibility to FUS
    (the maturity of the urinary tract arguement).  In my kitten contracts,
    I give the new owner until the cat is 10 months old to have it spayed
    or neutered.  If the buyer takes a male and a female kitten, I write
    into the contract that the male must be neutered by 6 months.  None
    of my kitten buyers have experienced any problems with early neutering
    and spaying, nor have I.  
    
    As always though, my advise is to trust your vet.  If he thinks
    that now is a good time to do it, then I would probably go ahead
    and do it now.
    
    If you already have the pungent male odor in the litterbox, sexual
    maturity is coming on.  You might as well neuter them before they
    start displaying more aggressive male behaviors, such as spraying,
    and/or mounting each other, or fighting with each other.  Whole
    males are very territorial and even when raised together, they can
    sometimes decide to turn on one another.
    
    Jo

    I have five males, and four are presently neutered.  Here is how
    I knew it was time for the big 'N:
    
    Kelsey:  Wanted to jump on anything in sight, but since stationary
             objects were uncooperative, decided his litter brother
             Shelby was the next best thing.  Kelsey was neutered at
             7 1/2 months.
    
    Kirby:   Began spraying at 6 months of age when Murdock, our new
             Birman, arrived.  Kirby was neutered shortly thereafter.
    
    T.K.:    Came to us as a stray in November of 88.  He was a whole
             male, who didn't spray but yowled up a storm and was very
             aggressive with the other cats.  As soon as I was able
             to capture him, he was neutered.  The vet estimated his
             age between 2 and 3 years.  As soon as the hormones
             dissapated, he became a loveable, mellow lap cat who
             adores attention and loves to be held.
    
    Nikki was neutered before we adopted him from the shelter.  Murdock
    is 8 months old, and I am going to hold off on neutering him until
    9 months of age, so he will develop better head type desirable
    for a show cat of his breed.  So far, the only masculine trait he
    has displayed is a slight case of stud tail (oily secretions at
    the base of the tail).  There has been no spraying or aggressive
    behavior to date.
    
    If your cat is not displaying the undesireable qualities of a whole
    male, then you can probably hold off until 9 months.  There is no
    set time to neuter, but most vets will suggest it be done between
    the age of 6 months and 1 year.
    
    
    --Roberta
    

    'Course if your cats go out then you should neuter as early as possible
    to prevent adding to the already overpopulated world of unwanted
    kittens and cats.
    

re: .25

Nag, nag, nag.  (many :) :) :)

Yes, I agree with you completely.  If they were outdoor cats, or indoor/outdoor
cats, I would have them neutered on the early side.  But they don't go out...
too many big dogs in the neighborhood (one of which is an experienced cat
killer).  The boys stay in, now and forever.

I'm glad that the FUS problem has been determined not to be caused/aggravated
by early neutering.  

Both of them are starting to exhibit sexual behavior.  No spraying around the
first and second floors, but I suspect some is happening in the basement --
I haven't been able to isolate where and treat it with Nature's Miracle yet.
They wrestle, as young cats will, but I've also noted some behaviour that 
looks like attempted mounting (grabbing the back of the neck with teeth
and such) on both of their parts.  Thor is significantly smaller than Loki,
though, and I wonder whether he needs to "fill out" more -- maybe not,
they're from completely different litters, maybe he's just smaller naturally.

Right now they're scheduled for the big C a week from Friday (I can see all
the male readers doing a "duck-and-cover" right now :).  They'll be 7 months
old at that point.  Looks like its ok, based on what I read here.  Thanks
for the reassurance.  :)

	-todd

    Well folks, Otis has been neutered - is home - and all is well.
    
    He was done around 8:30 a.m. on the morning of the 28th of February and
    I picked him up at 6:30 that evening.  The receptionist said that he
    would be a little groggy (drugged out!!) and not to give him food or
    water til morning.  Everyone in the waiting room - oohed and ahh'd at
    the site of him - all 17 lbs. - and only 9 months old.
    
    We brought him home - he jumped out of my arms...headed straight for
    the kitchen and continue to cry for 45 minutes straight.  He WASN'T
    drugged...he thought he was starving to death.  I called the vets
    office and she said to give him 2 tablespoons of 'wet' food - and if
    he kept it down - then I could continue to give him that same amount
    every hour.  Well, he did (keep it down) and I did (continue to feed
    him every hour...)!  
    
    The only thing I felt bad about was that Tiffany would NOT have
    anything to do with him.  She booed, hissed, spit, swatted, growled and
    eventually turned and went upstairs to hide.  I really think Otis
    thought that she would 'mother' him and he seemed a little lost.
    Hopefully by tonight Tiffany will have figured out that it's Otis
    and will accept him again.
    
    Thanks for everyone's support and understanding.  The surgery was a
    success and WE are all doing fine.
    
    Marilyn
    

    Oh Marilyn, I'm glad all went well.  I hate leaving my kids at the
    vet's for even an hour.  Mine boys usually come home ready to run
    and eat also!  17 lbs, huh?  Sounds like a huge baby boy - and
    think he will still grow until he is about 18 months old !!
    
    E.T.

    "Right now they're scheduled for the big C a week from Friday (I can see all
    the male readers doing a "duck-and-cover" right now :). "
    
    :-DDDDD
    
    I wonder where you got that phrase from.
    
    Dundee was done right at 9 months.  He still wasn't displaying any
    male behaviors and if I knew then what I know now I would have waited
    a bit longer and let his head fill out more.   As it is, tho, he has
    a wonderful round little head much like that of the fold on the cover
    of the February issue of CATS - tho since his ears aren't as tight
    his head doesn't look quite that round.
    
    Anyway - It varies from cat to cat and in your case I'd say the
    time is right.
      
      Let us know how they do.
    
    re: Otis - Glad to hear all went well.  I remember Dundee's neuter
    very clearly.  I was an absolute wreck all day.  We even drove through
    a snow storm to pick him up the next day.  He patty-pawed his
    catbed all the way home in the car.  
    

    "Duck and Cover" was the strategy proposed as the means of avoiding
    being killed when an atomic bomb goes off in your neighborhood,
    according to the training films in the '50's. "The Atomic Cafe" is
    a documentary film which described this and other responses to the
    dangers of our friend, the atomic weapon.
    
    And now, back to Feline!

    
    Glad to hear Otis is okay.  Pat him a while for me, Marylin!
    
    	Bob McQ.
    

    I think that it is a misconception is some cases about a male cat's
    head filling out if neutering is postponed.  The reason that the
    head gets wider is that male cats, when left whole, will develop what
    is refered to as stud jowls.  Well, in most cases, once the stud
    is neutered, the stud jowls go away.  The benefits of waiting to
    see if the head will broaden are often outweighed by the disadvantages
    of waiting too long.  The male will often start displaying male
    type behaviors about the same time that the jowls start to form.
    The jowls may end up disappearing, but the undesireable behaviors
    may stay.
    
    Jo

    Hi folks...wanted to let all of you caring folks out there know how 
    Otis is doing, now that he is home and on the mend.
    
    The first night I was up feeding him - I feel he truly believed he 
    was *starving* to death!  Then Thursday night he had diarrhea (oh 
    how I hated to hear him meow)...then he vomited around 3:00 in the 
    morning.
    
    I panicked and thought perhaps I had done something wrong or
    neglected to see a *sign* of illness.  My daughter and I
    were up holding him, talking to him and consoling him.  When I think
    there could be something wrong with either Tiffany or Otis there are
    three things I do (I know, I'm crazy..) to see if they acts 'normal'.  
    There is this string (you know, the string in sweatpants that come out 
    in the wash and you can NEVER get them back in!!) that he loves to play 
    with - then there is chasing the flashlight around the room, wall, etc.
    and last - but not least - the ol turning on the electic can
    opener.  He 'thinks' food and comes running...also, shaking the
    Pounce can has the same effect.  Well, he played with the string,
    chased the flashlight and ate a few pounce....so I figured he had
    to be fine.  
    
    We all went to bed...sort of!
    
    In the a.m. Tracey and I retraced what we had done with Otis
    the day before and she remembered that she had let him lick the
    cereal bowl...he isn't a big lover of milk but just a drip from
    time to time makes him feel as though he is getting away with
    something.  
    
    In any event - we feel the milk must have given him the diarrhea
    then, in cleaning himself, vomited it back up (*smart - but YUK!)
    and is now back to himself...health wise.
    
    His personality has definately grown - he is more affectionate,
    loveable, attentive (if that is possible) and just plain adorable.
    
    Thanks for all your comments and advice - you were there when I
    needed you - and I appreciate that very much.
    
    Marilyn - Otis and Tiff
    

    
    good for otis!  you are probably right--milk can cause the "green
    apple quick step", even in healthy cats.  one who just went through
    surgery is probably more susceptible.
    
    continued improvement to otis...
    
    diane, stella & stanley
    
                                                          

    
    	I agree with Diane, it was probably the milk combined with his
    depleted condition.  Glad to hear he's feeling a bit better.  Keep
    us posted!  And, again, many many thanks for the pictures of Otis
    and Tiff.
    
    	Bob, Smoke, Sneakers & Nova