Conference misery::feline_v1

    My thoughts and best wishes go out to you and Hector this morning.
    
    Anna/Zildjian/Spunks
    

    Helen -
      If he's on a severely restricted diet you can not allow him to
    hunt.  I'm sure that eating birds and mice etc is not good for him.
    What's the point of going to the trouble and expense of buying 
    Hill's and then letting him eat what he wants outside.  Better
    check with your vet.
    
      My thoughts are with you and Hector.  Good luck and keep us
    informed.
      Nancy DC

    Nancy,
    
    The vet knows he hunts; I specifically queried this (actually in
    relation to worming him).  He is not allowed red meat i.e. beef,
    liver, lamb, etc., or ordinary cat food; something to do with the
    protein content.  He is allowed fresh fish, chicken, turkey, rabbit
    i.e. white meat (are mice white meat?:-)).  Seriously, he does not
    eat much outside.
    
    I have considered keeping him in, and I have decided that I would
    rather he was happy behaving as he always has, even if it is for
    a shorter time.  (Please, I don't want any indoor/ outdoor arguments;
    I'm in the UK, live in the country, and my cats are not allowed
    out at night).
    
    Thank you for your replies; I would appreciate any advice, however
    far-fetched, at the moment.
    
    Helen.

    I know that things are different in the UK and did not intend any
    kind of criticism of his lifestyle.  I'm glad to hear that mice
    are ok for him.
      I'll be thinking about him.
       Nancy DC

    It is my understanding that mice are red meat.  But, who knows for
    sure.  The important thing to remember is that cats with impaired
    kidney function have to have a reduced protein level in their diet,
    and any kind of muscle meat is a protein.  So, whether mice are
    red meat or white meat, they are still another source of protein
    and will throw off the good effects of the special diet.  
                  
    I hope that Hector recovers from this illness.  Good luck to you.
    
    Jo

    
    i don't know enuf to have any advise, so i will just send good wishes
    to hector for recovery and happy life...
    
    diane, stella & stanley
    

    Our thoughts are with you and Hector.  Unfortunately, I'm not aware of any
    helpful information about the treatment of kidney disease that you
    don't have already.  please let us know how things are going.
    
    Karen, S, H, and L.B.
    

    Thank you all for your good wishes.
    
    Hector was feeling better this morning; he actually asked for some
    breakfast, and ate some k/d and some boiled chicken.
    
    I will keep you updated.
    
    Helen.

Hi Helen,

I have kidney failure, just like Hector!  I'm on a low-protein diet to take
a load off the need for the kidneys to break down the protein.  If you're
gonna give him supplements to the k/d, check with your vet to see how much
is OK.  100 grams of chicken, etc. has about 20 grams of protein, which
is all I get on a good day (I'll bet I weigh a stone or two more than
Hector!), so I'd be worried about him getting too much protein.

Chronic kidney failure means the kidneys ain't gonna get better, but you can
lessen the strain on them by severely limiting protein intake.

If you can ask your vet for a specific dietary protein level, you'll be able
to give Hector the best possible diet.

And give him a huggy for me, too!

Mary

Mary,
    
    Thanks for your reply.  I will ask the vet when I see her again
    on Monday about specific protein levels; no one's told me that,
    and it would really help.  
    
    I took Hector back to the vet last night, because he still wasn't
    really eating.  He had a steroid injection to stimulate his appetite,
    and has been given another course of antibiotics.  
    
    While he isn't eating at all, I've been told not to worry about
    what he eats; anything is better than nothing.  He had a little
    bit of boiled chicken and some fish this morning.  I wondered whether
    to try him on human baby food, which presumably is easy to digest;
    does anyone have any views on this?
    
    I know kidney tissue cannot be repaired; I'm just hoping that he
    will stabilise enough to live a reasonable life.  I thought we had
    it under control, since he was fine for a month after his last attack.
    He's going back to the vet on Monday, and I'm keeping everything
    crossed until then ....
    
    (Why do we have animals?  My dog is going to have his prostate x-rayed
    on Monday, and my pony is having eight weeks rest as he's lame.
    I think I've bought shares in the local vet's ...... still, at least
    I can worry about them in turn; saves boredom!)
    
    Helen

    
    I had a cat that died of kidney failure this past October.  I had
    him for 13 years.  It was really sad.  First, we bought him k/d
    food, but he wouldn't eat it at all.  He would just drink water.
    Then the doctor told me to feed him anything that he likes.  So,
    we bought him his favorite, 9-Lives chicken.  He was eating great
    for about two weeks.  I was really thinking he was going to live
    and be strong.  But, after those two weeks, he wouldn't touch 
    anything but water.  We were feeding him baby food through a syringe
    just so he would get some vitamins in his system.  We bought the
    strained chicken.  We fed him in the morning, come home for lunch
    and feed him then, again at supper and again late at night.  He
    was like a baby.  He weighed 12 pounds before he got sick, then
    he went down to 6 pounds.  There was nothing more we could do. 
    He was so lifeless and he wouldn't even respond.  The doctor told
    that there was nothing else he could do and the best thing was to
    put him to rest.  We did.  
    
    If your cat will eat the food, you are so lucky.  I know if my cat
    did, he would still be alive today.  Try the baby food with a little
    bit of chicken broth.  Your cat may like that.  
    
    Good Luck.  
    
    Melissa

    Melissa, thank you for your reply.  I'm sorry about your cat.
    
    The news about Hector is that he is not going to get better.  Like
    your cat, he will not eat the k/d any more, and I have been told
    to feed him anything he will eat.  At the moment, he will eat raw
    rabbit, and drink milk as well as water.  He will also lick a little
    Marmite (yeast extract - vitamin B, for those of you in the US).
    So that is what he is getting.
    
    He has been back to his own vet, and also to a different vet, who
    is an expert on cats.  After long discussions with both, I have
    decided that as there is no chance of a cure, I am not going to
    make him suffer any more by giving him drugs, tests, and so on.
    He has had one more blood test, which he hated (attacked the vet,
    and it took several attempts to get the blood), and he will not
    have any more.
    
    He will stay at home now, eating what he wants, drinking lots of
    water, and doing what he wants.  I don't believe he is in pain at
    the moment; he still likes cuddles, purrs, does his claws on the
    sofa(!), and so on.  He sleeps a lot.  When he no longer seems to
    be enjoying life, he will be put to sleep at home.
    
    I believe I've made the right decision; I hope I have.

    
    I feel so badly for you, knowing that you will loose your beloved
    friend.  But please be reassured, I think you have made the right
    decision.  Hector will be happy and safe for the rest of his life, but
    more important, he will be loved and cared for.
    
    Big gentle hugs from New Hampshire, (U.S.A.) I know that it was a tough
    choice to make, my thought are with you.
    
    Feline sad,
    
    Sue & Panther & Spot
    

    I brought my Nicholas home from the vet to die instead of having
    him put to sleep.  I'm not exactly sure what he died of, he was
    19, but it could have been kidney failure.  He also lost a great
    deal of weight and would not eat very much and later practically
    nothing.  He did not seem to be in any
    pain and we chose to bring him home even after the vet suggested
    that we end it.  He lived through the weekend and I stayed with
    him the whole time.  When he came home, he did everything he had
    always done one more time and when it was time, I petted him and 
    sootherd him until his last breath.  
    
    He sat outside under his favorite bush,
    climbed up a few of the stairs going up to the bedrooms and perched
    on the edge watching the front door or whatever he would always
    watch, purred when he was petted, etc.  I'm glad I gave him the opportunity
    to do everything one more time.  Fortunately, he was not in any
    pain and I could.
    
     Flo who now has Oliver to love

    
    we echo sue's sentiments.  if hector does not seem to be in pain, then 
    the best thing is to live as happily as possible at home for his remaining
    time.  the thing i regret most about cissy's death was that i did not
    allow her to come back to her beloved home to die.  i kept thinking the 
    next vet would be the one who could help.  she finally died (heart failure)
    while at the univ. of georgia veterinary medical clinic having tests.
    
    good wishes to you both...
    
    diane, stella, stanley                                              

    re:  .0                              
    
    
    Hi, Did your cat start out like mine did.  If so, the fate of my
    kitty doesn't sound promising.
      
For the past month and a half, my cat has been suffering from urinary problems. 
He will be six years old in September and has several episodes of what we
thought was FUS over the last couple of years.  During the middle of  January
he came down with the FUS again.  He would sit in the bathtub or any where else
and strain to urinate.  He would manage very small spots that would have blood
in them.  I took him to his vet and they gave him a shot that would help relax
his bladder and antibiotics for two weeks.  I gave him his pills faithfully
twice a day.  He weighed 15 pounds and the vet said that I  needed to cut down
his food intake to 1/4 cup of CD/dry  a day.  This was a little hard on my
other kitty because that meant that I couldn't free feed her either unless I
locked her up in another room entirely.  Her weight is just fine, so she
doesn't really need to cut down her intake.   Anyway, about three days before
the antibiotics ended he started vomiting a lot.  I called the vet and they
said that it sounded like hairballs and to come in and get some medication for
that.  Well it didn't help and two days after the antibiotics were finished he
started having problems urinating again. There was again blood in his urine.  I
called the vet again.  I took him in and the vet gave him something called
cephatabs that I was to give him for  another two weeks.  They also took blood
tests to see if he had early signs of kidney disease.  The test came back
positive.  I think they measure creatinin in the blood and it should have been
1.6 or less.  His measured 2.0.  I gave him the pills for 2 weeks and  changed
his diet once again to K/D which is a low protein diet specialized for kidney
problems. Within  several days of the last pill being taken he started showing 
signs of straining again to go to the bathroom.  The vets gave me pills for 
three weeks more and I have been  giving him those as well.  In the meantime, 
we closed on a house and moved into it.  I tried to keep the move as 
stress-free as possible for him, but he just flipped out.  Yesterday he
started showing a problem with straining again and I took him to the vet last 
night.  There was blood in the urine again. My cat is only six years old and
the vet was really concerned because most cats that she had treated with the 
cephatabs and the low-protein diet usually responded very well.  She kept my
cat overnight to do a radiogram of his kidneys.  She's checking to see if the
kidneys are enlarged or shrunken or stone or anything to find out what is 
actually causing his problems.  I am really scared for him.  I have to call her
at 2 oclock today to find out the results and we will discuss the possibilities
of what can be done.  More than anything, I don't want to see him suffer
anymore.  Has anyone else had any type of problems with there cat like this.
Is there hope is there is something terribly wrong with the kidneys.  I know
I have recieved the actual results yet, but I am really scared for him.

Any words of advice or info on the "early kidney disease" problem????

Thanks
Sarah

    Sarah,
    
    I'm very sorry to hear about your cat; I hope it is not as bad as
    you think.
    
    To answer your questions; Hector has never had FUS, or any sort
    of bladder problems.  Even now, he doesn't have problems using his
    litter tray.
    
    The only early symptom Hekky showed was drinking a LOT of water.
    This began gradually, and went on for probably two or three months
    before he showed any other symptoms at all.  Then he started becoming
    lethargic, and going off his food.  So your cat's symptoms do sound
    different.
    
    However, the level of cretinin (sp?) in the blood is indicative
    of kidney disease.  Hector's level in his last blood test, a month
    ago, was around 380; the norm is about 260.  He also had high urea
    and bilrubin levels; the bilrubin indicates possible liver problems
    also.  I am waiting for the results of this week's blood test, and
    I dread to think what they are going to be.
    
    The main problem with kidney disease is that the kidneys have a
    large reserve capacity.  So by the time the cat starts to become
    ill, it is often already too late.  Treatment consists of keeping
    the cat stable; there is no cure.
    
    When Hector was first put on k/d, he did recover, and for a month
    he was his old self, and led a normal life.  The vet thought then
    that, given he was only five, and was in very good condition (he
    was previously a very healthy cat), he would be OK for quite a long
    time, as long as his diet was controlled.  So there is a chance
    of controlling the condition.  I think it must depend very much
    on the individual.
    
    I hope your cat gets better.  His symptoms do sound different from
    Hector's, so don't worry too much (impossible, I know).
    
    I have another question too now, which I hate to ask.  How will
    I know when Hekky's quality of life is no longer acceptable?  He
    is visibly losing weight now, and eating very little - just some
    milk, and few mouthfuls of raw rabbit this morning, and nothing
    yesterday evening.  He still wants to be petted, but I suspect the
    answer now is days, not weeks.  How can I decide?
    
    Helen.

    There is surgery they can do for problems similar to yours - 
    I think Deb's cat had that surgery, is that correct Deb?
    
    Maybe you can shed some light on that - Sarah, maybe you can
    ask your vet what he/she thinks about the surgery?
    
    E.T.

    Argus's surgery was for blockage problems; it's refered to as a "P.U.",
    which stands for perineal urithectomey (although I'm not sure how to
    spell it). Basicly the cat is replumbed (he goes to the box like a
    female, but he's still as macho as before)
    
    Deb

    Thanks Deb, that's what I thought - they can't block after the
    surgery, but can still have crystals - but, at least they can
    eliminate urine, which must help.  My vet suggested tomato juice
    for SilVee when she had cystitis.  Vitamin C also helps acidify
    the urine.  I also had her on Tribrissan for 3 weeks.
    
    E.T.

    I will find out the verdict for sure at 2 oclock today.  I hope
    that it will be promising.  My worry about my cat is also the
    quality of life and suffering.  I don't want him to suffer.  I 
    have had to end the suffering of another cat that had chronic FUS,
    but this was before that operation became available.  I am not sure
    that this would work for my cat because its a kidney problem more
    so than a urinary tract problem.   I'm glad to hear that the symptoms
    aren't quite the same.  That gives me some hope.
    
    Thanks,
    Sarah

    
    sarah...
    
    sending good vibes to you and your baby for a good diagnosis.
    
    diane, stella & stanley
    

    Please check this out with your vet to be sure, but
    I believe a cat in the last stages of kidney failure does a lot of
    vomiting.  There may also be diarrhea but I am even less sure of that.
    If this is the case, you can use that as an indicator of when the cat
    is in too much distress.  But let me say again that you should ask
    your vet about this and also about how you can tell when the cat starts to
    suffer.  My thoughts are with you both.
    

    When Jesse had kidney failure, he didn't vomit or have diarrhea
    in the end.  He did start to have small seizures, and that was when
    we decided that he was suffering, and that we needed to help him
    by taking away the pain.  It was the hardest decision I have ever
    had to make in my life.  It was a year ago this month, and I still
    cry when I think of him.  
    
    Jo

    I will be talking to my vet again today.
    
    One of the vets did mention that he might start to vomit.  He hasn't
    yet, but is his appetite is becoming less and less; only a little
    milk this morning.  He walks as if his back aches.
    
    Thank you for your support.
    
    Helen.

    My 20 year old applehead bluepoint Siamese, Sheba, is now going
    through the advanced stages of renal shutdown. It has been quite
    a week of highs and lows for us ..the excitement of Mistral's success at
    the show and plans for future Birman litters ..and having to face the
    devastating possibility of losing Sheba in the near future.
    
    After tests confirmed that kidney failure is her problem we have
    her at home and I am giving her fluids and antibiotics daily. She
    has rallied a bit and is eating and using her litterbox again.
    
    Sheba spends most of her time sprawled on her favorite bedding on
    top of a heating pad. She purrs when we are with her and appears
    to be comfortable and still enjoying life. Our plan is to let her
    go when it becomes obvious that she is no longer comfortable and
    happy. It is obvious that I am having more trouble dealing with
    this than she is ..and as many of you other Feliners have expressed
    ..I am hoping I will be alert to what she is telling me and have
    the strength to go let her go when the time is here.
    
    Her half-brother, TiJai, whom we lost 3 1/2 years ago, also at the
    age of 20, lived on for another happy year after he had to have the
    help of the fluids. (Incidentally, for anyone concerned about the
    possible success of the surgery for FUS ...TiJai was completely
    blocked at the age of two. We couldn't even pass a catheter on him.
    The surgery restored him to good health and he lived another 18
    years with no problems from the surgery.)
    
    TiJai passed on in his sleep and I was grateful for all those extra 
    months we had together thanks to the daily fluids. Sheba is very
    weak so we aren't very optomistic ..but we will give her every chance.
    
    Linda               

    Hector was put to sleep at home on Friday.
    
    Thank you all for your support.
    
    Helen

    Helen,
    
    I'm so sorry to read your note.
    Hecky had a short but very much loved life.  I hope you can
    take some consulation from that.
    You know where I am if ever you want to talk.
    
    Judy 

    
    Helen, 
    
    I'm so sorry for your loss.  It's never easy, even when you know it is
    impending.  Big gentle hugs from New Hampshire.  We are thinking of
    you and Hector.
    
    Feline Sad,
    
    Sue & Panther & Spot

    Helen:
    
    i'm sorry for your loss too. I know Hector gave you lots of love and
    will always have a special place in your heart. you did all that you
    could and he knew it. Big hugs from New Hampshire too (re: .29).
    Our thoughts are with you.
    
    Cindi - & Magen & Cinnamon
    

    My sympathies too.  Hector knew how very much you loved him.
    
    With sorrow
     Flo & Oliver

    Helen..
    
    our condolences on the loss of hector.  it was the toughest decision,
    yet one you made because of your love for him.  bigs hugs are on the
    way from atlanta.
    
    diane, stanley & stella
    

    Helen,
    	Our sympathies, too.  Doobie passed away earlier this year from
    complications from kidney failure, so we know how you feel.
    
    Chuck, Jane, Peaches and Cassandra