Conference misery::feline_v1

    There was an article in either Cats Magazine or Cat Fancy a few months
    back.  I can't remember which one though.  
    
    cin
    

    I also saw the article but I can't remember which issue. I noticed that
    in this months issue of either CATS or CAT FANCY there was a listing
    for a traditional Siamese breeder.

    Deb

    There is a group who are working on breeding apple headed Siamese,
    but these cats are not being "recognized" as a new breed in CFA.
    I don't participate in other associations, so I don't know about
    them.  But, as far as I know, these breeders are fanciers of the
    apple headed Siamese, and wanted to breed them, but are not working
    at trying to get the associations to recognize them.
                     
    Jo

The article I saw was in I LOVE CATS a few months ago.

The following remarks are my personal opinion and do not reflect the
opinion of any cat breeder I know nor should I be considered an "expert"
in any aspect of this issue.  Flames and insults can be mailed directly
to me at FORTSC::WILDE...

I say more power to them!
I love the look of Tabitha and the older siamese cats I meet - I just CANNOT
warm up to the "new" narrow, long pointy-headed look.  I think this is another
case of breeder preference getting out of hand - as it seems to have
done with the "peke-faced" persians, many of which are having REAL
breathing problems (SOURCE: MAGAZINE ARTICLE IN VET'S OFFICE).  I hope 
a "traditional" persian breeders group will get started, too.  I think 
they would have healthier cats if they did.

Now, back to the regular noting stuff....

The article gave a number you can call to find breeders of "traditional" 
siamese....perhaps you could find a copy of the magazine at a local library?

    Please post the number here if you find it - I'm sure there are many of
    us who would be interested.  I have a chocolate point apple-head who
    has celebrated her 15th birthday.  She's in fine health (knock on wood)
    except for cystitis which is under control with proper diet, but I know
    I face the hard task sometime in the next few years of starting the
    search for a new chocolate point apple head and it would be handy to
    have a number to start the search.  The breeder whom I bought Ching
    from 15 years ago the 26th of this month was in her seventies then, so
    I don't suppose that she's still breeding cats into her nineties!
    
    I go along with a vote for the apples - their faces are so much
    prettier (in my opinion) than the longer, larger nosed currently
    "popular" look.  My friend has a new Siamese she calls Barbara
    Streisand, and you know why!

    
    Wasn't the sealpoint Siamese featured at the end of "The Wizard of Oz"
    an applehead?
    
    My preference is for the 'new' look - they're just *so* elegant!
    
    Sandy
    

    I have to agree with the noter who prefers the new look (not really
    very new, the breed has been extreme for at least the last 20 years),
    I find them to be very refined and elegant.  I also admire the physical
    make up of these cats, they are sheer muscle.  
    
    Just to clarify a point brought up by Dian Wilde, most Persians
    are not "Peke" faced.  Peke faced Persians are in a separate division
    all their own.  Peke faced Persians have an indentation in their
    foreheads just between their eyes and above their noses.  Other
    Persians do not have this indentation, but rather have completely
    round skulls.  There is a note in here about Peke faced Persians
    in particular, if any one is interested.  I am not sure if a Keyword
    has been assigned to it or not.
    
    I think that if these people want to breed apple headed Siamese,
    that is terrific, but just wanted to clarify that they are not
    trying to get them accepted by any of the major associations, so
    you will not be seeing them on the show bench anytime soon.
    
    The way that new breeds and colors are accepted by CFA is a long
    lengthy process.  One person cannot get something like that
    accomplished on their own.  The extreme-ness of Persians and Siamese
    didn't happen overnight, and was not brought about by one breeder.
    These breeds have evolved to this over time, through selective
    breeding.  Granted, they can be an "acquired taste", kind of like
    caviar and champagne. :^)
                    
    Jo

 >>   Granted, they can be an "acquired taste", kind of like
 >>   caviar and champagne. :^)
                    
I guess I'm just a tacos and beer kinda person. 8^}

Another thought to those who love the "traditional" siamese look...
I personally think a tonkinese has the body type and head style
of the traditional siamese - this breed might be an option if the
traditional siamese is not available when you go looking for your
next perfect cat companion.

    I have two "apple-heads" and a White Oriental that
    has what I call a "Dorito-head" (triangular).  While
    I love all three dearly, most visitors seem to prefer
    the more traditional Siamese, as in:
    
    "Oh, look at the beautiful Siamese!  And oh, my,
    what is *that*!"
    
    I will grant you, however, that Orientals look
    much better in colors other than white. ;-) I simply
    say, "That's the Art Deco kitty!"  and leave it
    at that.  As in champagne and caviar, she is an
    "acquired taste."  But oh, what a purrsonality!
    And Dream truely considers herself a "champagne
    and caviar" kind of cat!
    
    
    Mary-Michael, Niniane, Charm (the apple-heads),
    Dream (the dorito-head), Boogie, Mips and Belle

    Dorito-head!!  I love it!!  That is almost as good as Exotics being
    Persians in their underwear.
    
    I will have to remember that one.
    
    Jo

There is an article entitled "When Old Becomes New" in the Sept. 1989 
issue of CATS magazine about Traditional Siamese or "appleheads." Also,
The Sound Off column in the November 1989 issue of CATS contains some 
interesting letters from readers discussing the article. If you
would like to read the article, please send me mail (PROSE::GOGOLIN).
Unfortunately, someone who read my Nov. CATS magazine tore out 3/4
of the page with the readers' letters, so some of the text is missing.

The address for the Traditional Siamese Breeders and Fanciers Assoc.
is:  Diana Fineran, Rt. 14, Box 412, Jonesborough TN 37659. No
telephone number was given, but you could try Information.


I got my first very-own cat 21 years ago. Alfie was an appleheaded 
sealpoint Siamese -- "applehead" was all there was at that time.
Most of my friends and family reacted to seeing him for the first 
time by saying "What an ugly cat! It's so skinny and pointy." 
Remembering that makes me laugh. Compared to today's Siamese, the
appleheads look more like your standard domestic shorthaired cat.

Although I still love Siamese, I have vowed to never again buy a 
purebred cat because of all the beautiful, wonderful, loving 
mongrels in the world who need and deserve homes. Of course, pure
bred "giveaways", "throwaways", and shelter cats are ok -- and they're 
out there. My only Siamese now, Misty, came from a "free" ad in the 
newspapers when her people didn't want her any more (she was 12 then). 
I believe two of my black cats are part Siamese; they both were strays. 

Linda

    
    you've got another vote for the apple cheeked ones.
    
    my pretty cissy was a sealpoint apple cheek, which was the only type
    then.  of course, i don't know if i could ever keep another sealpoint,
    cuz it would remind me too much of her.
    
    my stella's mama is a beautiful frost point, and one of stanley's
    parents was a siamese (he is a lynx point).  so the best part of my
    favorite breed lives on...
    
    diane, stella & stanley
    

    
    Andy's from the UK, and says that the present accepted breed standard
    for Siamese here in the US was always the standard in Britain, and is,
    in fact, the 'real' Siamese.  He believes that appleheads were a result
    of a cross between Siamese and domestic shorthair cats.
    
    Our Tas (sealpoint) is so extreme that when our vet's new colleague
    took a look at him, she laughed and said he looked like a German
    Shepherd with his long nose :^}
    
    
    

    I can accept Andy's theory about Siamese and American SH's creating
    the apple heads.  
    
    Jo

    For what it's worth, Cat Fancy always (to my best recollection) has
    some breeders advertising "apple headed" Siamese in the back of the
    magazine.  It sounds to me like they should be relatively easy to
    find, though I've never contacted any of them.
    
    Karen.

    Well, folks.....I have just discovered this Notes File and I am
    delighted that so many people love Siamese!!!
    
    I come from a childhood of ONLY dogs, no cats allowed please.
    Consequently, my two brothers and sister have Siamese (all seals)
    and I was the last to succumb to their charms.  I have owned three
    Siamese in the last six years...first was an apple-head Seal with
    a VERY gregarious pursonality; six months later I bought a Blue
    which turned out to be very "typey" (new wedge-head!)  I loved both
    and thought both were/are beautiful.  Warning to all cat lovers...my
    original female seal was very jealous of my husband paying attention
    to any living creature other than her (myself included).  Whenever
    he bought me cut flowers, she would eat them to show her
    disappointment.  Back in September, 1987 Dave bought me some tiger
    lilies, which MingToy (alias Mungsie) promptly distroyed while we
    were out.  Several days and $700 later, she was dead because tiger
    lilies are deadly!!
    
    So we promptly set out to replace her with another sealpoint.  However,
    this time we bought a male.  They are completely different in
    personality, however; he has the apple-head, but weighs a heftly
    15 pounds to MingToy's petite 9 pounds, and gallops through our
    house....his nicknames are Puppy, (because he gallops and jumps
    around), and "Carny"voire (because he gobbles his food).
    Meanwhile, my bluepoint Shadow(who is afraid of everything including
    his own!) runs for cover when Puppy is on one of his runs.
    
    Anyway, I have told the story of my furred ones, both apple and
    wedge, ALL were loved best for pursonality!!!
    
    REgards,
    
    Charlene
    
    

    We are Siamese, If you please.
    
    We are Siamese, If you don't please.
    
    
    (sorry,  I couldn't resist.)
    -maureen
    
    

    Yes, but do you know the rest of the words?? 
    
    :^D
    
    Jo

    I used to... but then old age (35) set in.
    
    Anybody else know?
    

    Since it sounds like I won't get senile for another seven months, I
    can remember that we posted the words back in 2778.*

    Deb 

    re: .20 - Hey Deb, I'm senile enough for both of us and I won't
    be 35 til next month.
      So I guess you don't have to feel obligated to get senile  ;-)
    

    I love my little Sealpoint Applehead, Chablis.  She's 16 now and when I
    got her, I didn't know there was any other kind of style.  I knew some
    Siamese had these weird skinny faces but I love my applehead and will
    always be partial to them.  I love to take her round little face in
    both my hands and plant kisses on her cheeks and right between her
    eyes.  She's such a pun'kin.  She looks exactly like the Siamese who gets
    Toto's attention at the end of the Wizard of Oz and also like Tao-Cat
    from the Incredible Journey.  When she goes,  I am sure I'll get
    another applehead, most likely a seal, in time.
    
    Do anyone else's Siamese love rough treatment?  Chablis loves to be
    patted HARD on the side of her rump, (with a slightly cupped hand to
    distribute the impact).  She even positions her legs to withstand the 
    force.  Then she turns around so I can do the other side!  And in 
    finishing a stroke from head to tail, I can grab her tail firmly and 
    pick her up briefly by it and she just loves it!
    
    I can also get her going talking with me back and forth for a pretty
    good amount of time.  Siamese are the absolute best cats in the world.
    She's the 4th I've known and they've all been magnificent.

    I used to know a siamese named "Boy" who LOVED to have his
    butt beat.  Exactly as you described it and the base of his
    tail.  And if you stopped before he was done he'd let you know
    in no uncertain terms the you were not to stop yet.
      Nancy DC

    
    nancy...
    
    but did he want to have a cigarette after???   ;-)
    
    inquiring minds want to know...
    

    
    
    Does anyone have or know of a healthy Siamese male that would be
    willing to stud him. If so please send mail ASAP.
    
    	Thanks,
    
    		Jeff