Conference misery::feline_v1

    Hi there, 
    
    Well, for someone just starting out in breeding cats, you certainly
    picked a tough breed to breed.  I would start by contacting Nancy
    DC, from this file, who has Dundee, a Scottish Fold.  She can refer
    you to Dundee's breeder, who can help explain the genetics behind
    breeding folds.  There are other notes in her about Folds, seems
    that I just saw one the other day.  Why not do a
    "dir/keyword=scottish_fold" and see what that shows.  I am no expert
    on breeding Folds, I breed Birmans, but I do know that breeding
    Folds is complicated, and that there are some genetic deformities
    that can occur in the breed (spinal column stuff, inflexible tails).
    It is not something that should be taken lightly.  
    
    Starting out by showing your girl is a very good idea.  That way,
    you can see how well she conforms to the written standard of perfection
    for the breed.  Also, your breeder would be the best place to start.
    Why not contact him/her and ask for advice and assistance.
    
    Jo

SHOW KEY/FU SCOT*

will return the other notes that have been keyworded for Scottish
Folds.  This is *much* faster than the DIR command.    

Pam

    
    I have already spoke with Nancy, she was in my bldg today for a meeting
    and stopped over with some material about the folds and who to contact
    in the CFF for more info.....I hve been trying to contact my breeder 
    for a while now but i have not heard from her, then again I hve
    been working in a differennt bldg on a project and she just may not
    be able to contact me...From everything I read or learned about folds
    from catshows, my baby is of excellent quality and her hind legs are
    guaranted from the breeder.....Nancy adviced me to attend the catshow
    in Dorchester which I am planning to do..I would like to touch base
    with people there to see what it is the judges look for and how the
    points work...anybody who would be will to help me, I would greatly
    appreciate  it
    
    margi
    

    Margi, though I don't have a Fold, I think they're wonderful cats!
    If you're in Dorchester on Sunday, please stop by with some pictures
    of your baby.  I'd love to see her!
    
    Good luck.  Where do you live?  It would be neat to have a breeder
    in our area.  Who did you buy your Fold from?
    
    
    -Roberta (full of questions!)
    

    Roberta
    
    Where will you be at the show and how can I find you?
    I live in manchester NH and usually work at DDD in Nashua.
    I bought my cat from a woman in Amherst NH named Nancy Burke.
    I asked nancy dc if she had heard of her but she hasn't..I read
    somewhere in notes (I think it might have been a note nancy wrote)
    that folds sell for about $200-$300, however, i paid $500..is this
    too high a price does anybody know?  I told elaine trachman this a
    while ago and she looked at me like I taken.  any advice?
    
    margi
    

    Margi,
    
    I don't breed Scottish Folds but I have just begun in birmans.  It
    doesn't seem unreasonable to me to pay $500 for a breeder/show quality
    kitten of any breed but did you buy her at the breeder's pet price or
    breeder/show price??  If that was a pet price then I think that $500 is
    too much.    However, a scottish fold breeder can best answer your
    questions regarding price.  There are also many books on the market
    that are on breeding, showing and genetics.  But Jo is right in that
    finding a breeder you can work with is a good way to get started.
    
    Nancy

    Nancy is right, the price for kittens of different qualities varies
    from breed to breed.  Because of the breed, I would think that $500 for
    even a pet wouldn't be unreasonable because only a portion of each
    litter will actually have folded ears.  
    
    My Exotic Shorthair pets go for much more than my Persian pets.  That's
    simply because there are less people breeding them, and only about 50%
    (if were lucky!) of our litter will have short hair.  My Exotic SH pets
    start at $400 - $500, where my Persian pets are $200.  
    
    Also, the demand and popularity of the breed will affect the price. 
    Right now, Exotics and Scottish Folds are very popular and hard to
    find.  Both breeds have gotten alot of publicity over the past year or
    so, and that also affects the price.  
    
    Three to Four years ago, I had to almost give away the Exotic pets
    because nobody knew what they were.  The nice quality kittens were
    always in demand by breeders, but the pets didn't move.  Now, I can't
    keep up with the demand from people who want pets.
    
    It's the same as anything else....the market sets the price!
    
    purrs
    cin
    

    Margi, the show catalog will tell you what row I am benched in at
    the show.  Anyone manning the desk should be able to help you interpret
    this informaiton.  Again, I'll be there on Sunday, January 21st.
    
    As far as price is concerned, I'm afraid I can't be of any help,
    though Cin and Nancy have shared some very valid information.  Also,
    I have heard that breeder/show Folds start at $400 in our area.
    When I venture into buying a purebred cat, I don't do it in an effort
    to "make a deal."  More important to me is dealing with a breeder
    I feel comfortable with, who loves the cats and houses them in clean,
    comfortable surroundings, is free with information and advice, and
    stands behind their kitten sales should anything go wrong.  If I
    am comfortable with the breeder, then I talk price, and each one
    I have bought kittens from has been able to work out a plan with me 
    that was commensurate with my finances at that time.
    
    Did your breeder know back then that you had plans to breed your
    girl, or are you just deciding this now?  Was she sold to you as
    a pet, breeder, or show quality Fold?  This information would be
    helpful in order to make a determination of whether or not the $500
    purchase price was fair.
    

    Roberta,
    
    I couldn't agree with you more!!!
    
    You should feel comfortable with both the breeder and the environment. 
    
    cin
    

    when I bought her it was for the intention of showing and breeding
    and the breeder new this upfront.....her siblings have gone on to win
    championships I've heard...but I don't know what there names are or 
    who owns tehm...If i see the kittens at this show i will most certainly
    recognize them beause they werer litter mates..
    
    I want to thank everyone who has responded to my note..I have learned
    a lot
    
    thanx
    
    margi
    

    No problem, Margi.  We think it's great that you want to know more...
    and do right by your cat.  It shows that you want to be a conscientious
    and reputable breeder of Folds.
    
    Let us know what you find out.
    
    --Roberta
    

    All this has been good information.  Now I have a question for Roberta.
    Do all of your shows out there put your benching in the catalog??
    This is a new one on me.  Out here, there are two or three ways
    that we do it.  We have labels printed that we either attach to
    the catalogs, or to envelopes, and we write the benching on them.
    Doing it on the catalogs is a type of "self check-in" and can be
    extremely helpful if your club is small.  Our shows out here close
    about 6 days before the show, so there isn't time to get the benching
    entered into the computer before the catalog data must go the to
    printer.  
    
    I just sat up last night until 2:00am working on benching for this
    weekend's show in San Jose.  What a chore that is.  It had been
    quite a while since I had done it (2 years), and I had forgotten
    how frustrating it can be.  For those of you who enter shows...
    please, when it says "one benching request only", please only give
    one, and have it be a person's name.  When doing the benching, all
    the information we are provided with is the list of exhibitors names,
    not their breeds, friends, enemies, religions, etc.  I had several
    interesting requests "dont' bench me near any whole males" (how
    am I supposed to know what each person is showing?), "please bench
    on end of row, near rings, by (insert judge) ring, next to (insert
    name of exhibitor, or two or three) and with (insert breed)"!
    ARRRRRRGGGGGHHHHHHH!!!!!!
    
    Okay, now that I have released all that tension, on to the topic
    at hand.  My pet quality Birman kittens sell for $400.  This goes
    back to what Cin said, about supply and demand.  Right now, Birman
    kittens are in pretty good demand.  This may change as more people
    start breeding them.  My breeder/show cats start at $650.00 now.
    The price went up once my grand champion stud cat started producing
    grand champion offspring (he is now "proven").  I have made payment
    plans with buyers, and have no problem in doing so.  $650 is alot
    of money, but compared to the prices of show quality cats of some
    breeds, it is modest.  I usually don't sell cats for breeding that
    cannot be shown, unless it is to another breeder who is already
    established.  New people need to be exposed to shows, and judging
    and learn how to evaluate their cats.  If their cat is for breeding
    only, they don't get the learning opportunity that is available
    at shows.
            
    Jo

    Jo, maybe I phrased my note wrong.  Since I haven't shown extensively,
    and only CFF, here is what I know.  The number assigned to your
    cat/s is printed in the catalog in an alphabetical list in back.
    So all a person needs to do of they are looking for a particular
    breeder or person is look up that person's name in the back of the
    catalog and find the number for their cat.  Of course that doesn't
    solve the problemm of where that person is benched in the show hall,
    does it?  Hmmm, I think I've backed myself into a corner here! 
    In any event, there are exhibitor's names printed on paper and taped
    to the end of each row.  So you can always look for the name, then
    go down the row and find the number of the cat/s you are looking
    for.
    
    Can someone else out here in the Northeast shed more light?  It
    probably differs by cat club.  Murdock will be in his first CFA
    show February 10th and 11th.  I can't wait for it!  Meantime, we'll
    be doing a TICA show one day on Jan. 21st.
    
    RE:  Payment plans.  Charlene worked out a plan with me and it
    has been a lifesaver seeing as we purchased Murdock around the holiday
    season when it's easy to go broke!  With each payment (monthly),
    I send her pictures of his development and write a short note in
    regards to progess we've made with grooming and nail clipping
    sessions (he was really growly in the beginning, refusing to let
    me hold him for long periods of time).  It's fun keeping up the
    communications and it also builds a good reputation for me in case
    I need to use her as a reference with another breeder.  I think
    there are lots of benefits to both breeder and buyer with that type
    of system.
    
    
    --Roberta
    

    Thanks for the clarification.  I was beginning to think that we
    are way behind the times out here in the west.  I am happy to say
    that at 1:30am this morning, I finished the benching for the Tails
    and No Tales Show.  I made a chart with everyone's spot on it that
    will be left at the front door for spectators to use, and also made
    a list of each person's name, then their row number next to it.
    I don't get any more specific than row number, once I get you to
    the row, you have to find the space yourself.
    
    You will be happy to know that I was able to get in touch with the
    entry clerk and have him help me bench the "not near any whole males"
    person.  It took over half an hour to find her the perfect spot,
    but we did it!
    
    Then, I took all the breed specific requests, like the four that
    wanted to be benched with himmies, and put them all together (assumed
    they all *had* himmies).  I had to ask the entry clerk for help
    in finding out who had Korats, etc, but it worked out.
    
    I will really be glad when this show is over, and is a raging success!
    My husband and I have been working hard on it, and going without
    sleep alot.  This is tough on a relationship.
    
    Back to the topic at hand, I think it is really important to keep
    in close contact with the breeder.  For both of your sakes.  I was
    lucky to have received Christmas cards with pictures from most of
    my kitten buyers, and I really appreciated it.  I like to keep up
    with my babies, and know how they are doing through the years. 
    
    I don't think that I have ever sold a kitten for show or breeding
    that was paid off all in one payment.  Most people need to make
    payments Roberta, including myself.  When I was starting out, and
    getting my first queens, breeders were very nice about allowing
    me to make payments.  I like to be able to pass that on to my buyers.
    I have also been known to do some creative financing on my kittens.
    When we sold Dreamer, she went to a couple who make and sell cat
    trees in our area.  I had always wanted one of their trees, but
    couldn't afford it.  So, when we started making plans to sell Dreamer
    to them, I asked them for a cat tree as a down payment rather than
    cash.  My other cats love the tree.  They think the trade was very
    good, Dreamer for a cat tree. :^)
    
    Jo

    I'm a little slow getting caught up here with the notes.
    re: Pricing -
      What I've heard is that for anything that folds the starting price
    is $400 with most breeders.  Tony IS definitely less expensive than
    alot of other breeders and I'd appreciate it if you folks DON'T
    ADVERTISE TONY'S PRICES to other breeders.  He could catch alot
    of flack and he doesn't deserve it.  
      Personally I think that what a breeder charges is his/her business
    but other folks don't feel that way.
      Thanks
       Nancy DC
    

    re: 5
    
    Margie,
    
    I read your note last week - I was wondering if you would be
    kind enough to refresh my memory as to where we met or when
    we spoke?  Probably when I was half-asleep at a show !!
    Firstly, I don't know Nancy Burke nor the quality of her
    cats or kittens, I don't have a clue what a Pet Quality, or a
    Breeder Quality, or a Show Quality Scottish Fold would be sold
    for.  I think that the look you mentioned might have been that
    maybe $500 was cheap for a breeder/show quality fold.  I'm
    into Exotic Shorthairs and don't follow the prices for Folds.
    I do know about Brits, because my friend breeds them.  Are
    Nancy Burke's cats CFA or CFF registered?  Does she show on
    a regular basis?  I think that things like that would affect
    the price of the cat alsong with the quality of the cat.
    Maybe send mail or call - I'm up in MK - I'm not too sure
    where you are located, but Nashua isn't very far.  I' won't be
    around the show halls until either the very end of February or
    early Mfarch because my Exotic's litter is due soon.
    I do know a couple of Fold breeders if you are interested in
    making contact with them.  Just holler.....
    
    E.T.