Conference misery::feline_v1

    I don't mean to sound cynical, but it sounds as though the law
    requiring owners to give their DOGS shelter doesn't have many teeth;
    would it be any better enforced if it applied to CATS too?
    
    Doesn't the MSPCA have the authority to take animals away from their
    owners when they aren't being looked after? Or is it one of those
    laws that's never enforced because it's too hard? Maybe the MSPCA
    took the Shepherd away (I hope so).
    
    It is just sooo hard to understand people like these: why do they
    go to the trouble to get animals they don't want to care for? It
    must be very, very frustrating for you as a neighbour.
    
    Shayne (New Zealand)

    Maybe you could help the cat "forage" for shelter by finding it
    a new home well away from the neighborhood? Owners that care so
    little may not notice if the cat dissappeared. Then call the MSPCA
    everytime the dog is left out in the cold.
    

    I agree.  Just find the cat a new home.  I've done it plenty of
    times and the owners never notice, let alone care.  As for the dog,
    I would simply untie it and take it into my house.  But I'm a pretty
    gutsy person in that respect.  Some folks don't want to make waves
    with their neighbors.  The dog will surely freeze to death if something
    isn't done.  The MSPCA should be doing more than just making idle
    threats.  I would call them again and really get on their case.
    

    Ken, I know how you feel.  My grandmother's neighbors have kept a
    menagerie for years, and have never taken care of the animals.  Once,
    one of the youngsters was at my grandma's house, and told me about a
    dog that had died recently.  She said that they had put it in the back
    yard pen because it had gone into heat, and had forgotten about it - 
    it starved to death.
    
    Over the years, my grandmother has reported them, but they continue.
    Once, I saw one of the kids with a cat in her hands.  She was holding
    the cat with a front leg in each hand, and swinging it over and over.  
    I'm sure the poor cat would have suffered dislocation or worse had I
    not stopped her.  I don't know what happened after that.  I don't even
    live in the same state as her, and am not able to pursue the situation.
    
    The whole family is rather wierd, and some years ago the mother got
    angry at my grandma, now all my grandma ever gets from her is the
    finger.  I'm afraid of them hurting her if I get too involved.  My
    grandma gets older and less able to care for herself as time goes by,
    and if the time ever comes that she doesn't live there any more, I'M
    GOING TO RAISE SOME STINK ABOUT THE ANIMAL SITUATION!!  Meanwhile, I
    must bite my tongue and turn my head the other way, difficult as it is.
    
    These people are my grandma's only neighbor, so there's no one else to
    get involved.  How frustrating!!  If you come up with a workable
    solution to your problem, please enter it here - I'll try anything
    someday.
    
    Sympathetic Sharon and Smokey (who has a house to sleep in)

    I'm not trying to raise a ruckus here, but so often in this file
    people "sound off" about cases of animal abuse they witness or have
    been witnessing but are afraid to get involved for fear of getting
    hurt themselves.  As a result, the animals continue to suffer. 
    This is totally unacceptable as far as I'm concerned and I would
    prefer not to read about such instances if the people writing in
    have no intentions of helping the animal(s) in distress.  True,
    we all feel a need to "vent" and what better place to do it than
    in a file as compassionate and caring as this one.  However, my
    heart cannot bear to read anymore of these horrible stories.  If
    you are unwilling to help, then I, for one, feel the stories are
    better left unsaid.
    
    Go ahead now, beat me up!!
    
    --Roberta
    

    I agree with .2 and .3.   They probablly wouldn't miss the poor
    kitty and perhaps you would be able to find it a real nice home
    with loving people.  I too have a neighbor who lets her cat out,
    sometimes for days this poor guy wonders the streets, and it really
    upsets me.  I've rung her bell as late as midnight to tell her
    to take him in.
    
    It's so frustrating dealing with this type of person.  I hope
    everything turns out ok.
    
    
    
    Giudi in SF

If the MSPCA will do nothing about the dog/cat out in the weather, I agree...
take the cat in and keep it until you find it a home...if you can't keep
it in your house, maybe even your garage with a place to sleep?  AT LEAST
TAKE IT TO BE SPAYED - talk to a vet and maybe you can get a discount and
a spay certificate from Nancy DC.  As horrible as this sounds, the cat
MIGHT be better off humanely destroyed rather than having kittens every
year until she dies of birth complications and exhaustion.

I would not only place the cat, but I
would tell the people what I had done AND WHY... AND I would tell them
that any cat that shows up on their property that is neglected or
allowed to have ONE litter of kittens will be removed the same way.
I would inform them that if they need education on caring for their
animals, vets can provide data and books are available in the library.
The main issue here is to inform the neighbors that you will NOT
TOLERATE animal abuse next door to your home.  If you fear a face-on
confrontation, have a lawyer (or someone with good writing skills)
write it in a very legal-sounding letter.

Now, concerning that dog...laws exist so you have a leg to stand on.  I
would contact the MSPCA and tell them everytime the dog is out in the
weather and I would write to the local paper about the failure of the
MSPCA to do anything - and I would contact the city officers (mayor,
councilmember, etc) and raise H**L about this.  The squeaky wheel gets
the grease, remember?  Raise the heat until something is done...

    Roberta, 
    
    I feel that you are being a bit unfair.  What you are suggesting
    would be a form of censorship.  If the notes upset you, just hit
    next unseen and go on to the next note.  We need to allow people
    to vent their feelings of frustration over situations like this.
    
    Not everyone has the gumption to take a situation like this into
    their own hands.  I think that this falls under the heading of valueing
    differences.  People can only do so much.  Sometimes the threat
    of retribution is very real.  In this crazy world we live in, almost
    anything is possible.  People have been killed over lesser things.
    
    I commend you, and others, for taking a strong stand on issues such
    as this, but I think that we have to be open to the fact that not
    everyone can take such a stand.
    
    Jo 

    Jo, yes, these people do have a right to vent.  And we do live in
    a crazy world; that is evident every time I listen to the radio
    while riding into work.  However, nothing is more upsetting than
    people who vent their feelings and frustrations over a cruelty
    situation but take absolutely no action whatsoever.  I think Dian's
    note summed it up best.  There *are* ways to approach these issues
    and get something accomplished without risking your life.  There
    are no excuses for people who sit back, watch and do nothing.  As
    far as I'm concerned, the people who are afraid to take action are
    just as bad as the people commiting the act of cruelty.
    
    I know I'm being harsh.  It's just one of my hot spots.  My feeling
    is that if you aren't going to do anything about it, then stop
    complaining (you in the general sense of course).  I can't save
    every animal in the world but I'm certainly not going to sit back
    and watch my neighbor or someone close to me abuse or neglect their
    animals.  If people know they can get away with something, then they'll
    continue to do it.  Maybe if more of us put up instead of shut up
    we could make some folks think twice before they abuse/neglect their
    pets.
    
    

    Venting sometimes allows folks to sort out their feelings and
    become free to take some actions.  I talked alot about Weymouth
    Commons before I was able to go down there.  Of course, having
    seen those pretty babies I'm more motivated.  The reality tho
    is that I may not be able to help them all.  
    
    Its a very scary thought that the people who live next to you
    might take their anger out on you or your loved ones when you
    aren't around.  If you're renting you can move if things become
    too hot.  When you own a house you're in a different situation,
    believe me!  And don't tell me you can just sell the house. Ours
    has been on the market since August.
    
    Please DON't use this file as a way to blow off feelings rather
    than Acting, but be aware that "blowing off steam" is sometimes
    necessary to think clearly enough to plan a course of action.
    
    In this case, I'd take the cat - and NOT tell them about it -and
    I'd call the MSPCA, Animal Control officer EVERY time I saw the
    dog out there.  Sad to say, but if you make a big enough pest
    of yourself with these agencies they'll do something just to
    shut you up.
      Nancy "somewhat cynical at times" DC

    I agree with the noter who suggested contacting local officials,
    writing to the newspaper if the MSPCA fails to respond, etc.  One
    other suggestion, Ken, take a few hours and look up the laws pertaining
    to animal cruelty in Massachusetts so you have a clear understanding
    of what is on the books.  That way you are fully prepared to deal
    with the MSPCA and the morons.  
    
    Having worked for an animal shelter many years ago, I know that
    the law is left up to many, many interpretations depending upon
    the person reading it.  I cannot believe, however, that it is within
    the law for a human being to not provide shelter and food for an
    animal that is part of their home.
    
    When all else fails, capture the animal(s) and find better homes
    for them.  I know this is easier said than done but sometimes it's
    the only way to alleviate the problem.
    
    I think drawing the media's attention to a bad situation is a really
    good way to getting some action and quickly.  It worked for me when
    I was at the shelter and hopefully it will work for you....especially
    if the situation is a bad one.  We all know how the media just loves
    bad news!
    
    Good luck.
    
    Nancy

    Boy, I didn't mean to ruin anyone's day by venting frustrations.  I was
    searching for an alternative to compromising and endangering my
    grandmother, but apparently this isn't the place to do it.  Frankly,
    she's more important to me than some mistreated animals.  I hate the
    mistreatment, but refuse to endanger her.  
    
    As for putting up or shutting up, I hereby SHUT UP!!
    
    Sharon (sadly) and Smokey

    Sharon,
    
    Please don't shut up.  I, for one, am with you.  I understand your
    feelings of frustration, and your worries about your grandmother.
    This file has always been a good place to vent, and as far as I
    am concerned, you can continue to vent as long as you need to. 
    I don't go in for censorship of any kind.
    
    Please continue to be part of this file.
    
    Jo

    Yes, maybe when a bad situation is brought to light, someone
    else can do something to help.
    

    Alright, if you guys want to vent and share your stories, fine.
    If you are too afraid to contact the authorities or try to help,
    that's your problem.  When you write into this file and share your
    stories you have to be prepared to hear suggestions and feedback
    from other noters who are active where animal rights are concerned.
    If you're not going to implement them, then what's the point in
    writing in?  I see enough abuse that I'm currently trying to put
    an end to myself (I'm working on a neighborhood dog situation right
    now).  It is frustrating to hear of the cases where nothing is being
    done.  As said before, there are organizations geared to investigate
    situations of animal abuse and your name will be kept confidential.
    Feeling bad is not going to do any good.  Actions speak a lot louder
    than words.
    
    This is obviously becoming a dead issue, pun intended.
    

    Okay guys, I think we should back off on this a bit.  There are
    ways to get your point across without having to throw out accusations, 
    and sharp remarks.  
    
    Let's all remember to value differences.  And please, try to be
    nice about it.  We are all individuals with feelings.  I don't think
    any of us wants to run people out of this file.
    
    Jo

    I most definitely agree with .17. 
    
    Also, this file, I believe, is here not only to help us share our
    feelilngs/experiences (good & bad) but to help us put suggestions
    with certain situations.  Sometime there might be a fit and sometimes
    there might not.  Also, I don't think that all of us can be in
    agreement with a situation all of the time - but we certainly keep
    trying to help eachother out - no matter what.
    
    There have been quite a few notes that have upset me greatly (and
    I won't mention the subject matter as it is a DEFINITE THING with
    me) - but through other people's responses I have learned how to
    approach the subject in a different light and make my response not
    as strong - and perhaps the writers of these notes have learned
    from the responses given. 
    
    I believe we are all caring people - otherwise we wouldn't be here.
    
    Sharon - don't go away!!
    
    
    Giudi in SF (Pippin, Gino & Stitch Too)

    
    >Okay guys, I think we should back off on this a bit.  There are
    >ways to get your point across without having to throw out accusations, 
    >and sharp remarks.  
    
    >Let's all remember to value differences.  And please, try to be
    >nice about it.  We are all individuals with feelings.  I don't think
    >any of us wants to run people out of this file.
    
    I think that what Jo said is worth repeating which is why I just
    repeated it. Folks, it is the holiday season and I understand that
    is a stressful time for many folks, so lets really try to watch how we
    say things so as not to hurt others feelings.
    
    Deb
    (co-moderator)

    	Roberta seems to be outnumbered and not getting much support, so
    I'll have to speak up.  There's a great saying:

    	"If you can't stand the heat, get out of the kitchen!"

    	I interpret this as Roberta does: if you see something wrong, do
    something about it. People who see and understand wrongness and do
    nothing are MORE guilty of that wrong than the the perpetrator who is
    often so brain dead that they are not aware of their deed. Whining 
    about it in a forum such as this is 'preaching to the choir'. A too
    easy thing to do - you KNOW you will get positive support. To do good,
    you must go out amongst the infidels and do battle. I cannot respect
    those who do not display the courage to do so. Harsh words, but that's
    the real world. The one I strive to make a better place. - Chris 

    Thank you Chris.
    
    And now, back to CATS!
    

    The problem has not been with the opinions, but rather with the
    words chosen to express them.  The object here is not to gang up
    or not, or the be outnumbered or not, but only to be sure that in
    expressing the opinions that offense is not created or taken.
    
    I, for one, have no problem with Roberta's opinion, only with the
    way that it was expressed.
    
    Jo                                 
    

    Okay, okay, we've all made our points.  Let's drop it now and get
    back to talking about cats.
    

    I agree with Roberta.  If nothing's going to be done by people
    witnessing these cruelties, please keep it to yourself.  I, for one,
    believe it going after such people - including neighbors!
    

    I think it would be nice if people didn't judge other people's methods
    (or lack of) without knowing the whole situation.  
    
    I have in the past, and will continue in the future, dealt with cruelty
    to animals by going to proper authorities, and have gotten results. 
    It's just that in my case, I didn't know what to do.  You see, the
    people that live next to my grandmother are lunatics - the oldest son
    actually raped the mother once.  These people have threatened my
    grandmother more than once, and (as I mentioned before) SHE'S THEIR
    ONLY NEIGHBOR!!!  AND I DON'T EVEN LIVE IN THE SAME STATE!!!  (I'm
    approx 150 miles away.)  It keeps me busy worrying about her, and with
    the animal situation - well - I just don't know what to do.
    
    Now, if you still think I don't care, how 'bout solving the situation
    yourself?  I'm out of ideas, and was hoping for some more, but looks
    like all I get is criticism.  I used to love this file, but now I'm not
    so sure.
    
    This is the first time I've been back in here since my original
    sign-off, and I guess I wish I hadn't. (come back, that is).
    
    I love animals, but don't love people who jump to conclusions without
    knowing the whole story.  
    
    Thanks to all of you who defended me, I appreciate it (honestly).
    Maybe some day I'll get off my soapbox and rejoin this file.  I won't
    be back for awhile, if at all, so don't bother with replies to this.
    
    So long,
    Sharon and Smokey
      

    I'm very sorry that that things had to end up like this; suffice it to
    say that both moderators have been very busy the past couple of weeks
    with our full-time jobs.
    
    Folks, I was about to close this note a week ago just as Jo put in that
    nicely worded response that I HOPED would calm folks down and be a bit
    nicer in their choice of words. It's too bad I was feeling so
    charitable because now we have another person that has left the
    conference. She simply asked for ideas and instead was spoken to in a very
    harsh, judgmental manner and was severely criticized (and by people that
    didn't even know the circumstances).

    Over the past year, I've talked to/received mail from a lot of folks
    that have either left FELINE or are afraid to post something that is
    slightly controversial out of "fear" (that is right, real fear) of
    getting chewed up and spit out. As a member of this community, and as
    the conference co-moderator, it saddens me to hear those kind of things.
    As a result, we moderators have made a real effort to ask folks to
    value differences, to put yourself in the place of the person you are
    responding to and try on how your response feels (remembering that
    there is always a nice way to say what it is you are trying to say).
    We've sent replies back to folks and asked them to reword them, and
    we've tried jumping in sooner.    

    On the other hand, I'm glad that Ms. Ellis told us why she is leaving.
    As I mentioned above, I've gotten that idea that there are a lot of
    folks that don't seen to feel that FELINE is a very friendly place on
    the net ("SELF-RIGHTEOUS" is the word usually used), and when we have
    returned a replies to some folks asking them to be re-worded or softened
    because some folks would be offended or had their feelings hurt, we
    have often gotten into go-rounds with folks, causing us to try to justify
    our requests with some of the things that we have heard/been-told
    (we have never given out names). Some folks have come out and said they
    don't believe it. Well, believe it folks. Ms. Ellis just summarized
    what a lot people have been telling the moderators for quite some time now.
    How does that make YOU feel?

    So here is the bottom line. No further slack will be cut in this file.
    Think long and hard about how you word things. If I find the tone of
    something even mildly offensive, it is going to get returned to the
    author.
    
    Deb
    co-moderator

    Roberta,
    
    I,m with you all the way. I get so depressed and frustrated when I here
    of animals being badly treated.When I moved to Glouctershire the local
    Farmer who was quite a big noise in the village had cats and kittens
    around the farm.The only food they got was if a chicken had died he
    would through it out to them and milk when the cows had calved.The cats
    had runny eyes (later diagnosed as Chlyamidia Psittaci after they had
    infected my cats) and lice.So I rolled up my sleeves and said Stan how
    did you feel about the people who we bought our cottage for when their
    horse was put down by the RSPCA because it was starving.He said
    "Dreadfull people" So I said that was what I thought of him starving
    his cats.
    So we collected them all up and had them neutered and I penned the
    kittens dug out the ear mites and trained them to be handled and use
    litter trays and all went to good homes.
    The farmer was seen buying cat food in the local village shop and said
    that was what I had brought him down to.My husband at the time was
    hiding behind the barn.But I really get mad when I see children or
    animal abuse.You don't have to go round shouting just try and reason
    with them.If they won't then quietly remove the animals.If nothing else
    the cat could be caught taken two towns away and quietly neutered.They	
    would be none the wiser I can assure you
    I will say one other thing we have the RSPSA in Britain and they are
    not at all helpful about cats.I have stopped giving to them and give to
    the Cats protection League instead.Maybe the society mentioned is the
    same.
    I better stop chatting on.
    
    Th�r�se

    Therese, that was quite a story!  Not many people have your guts
    and you should be commended for your efforts.
    
    As mentioned previously, here in the States, there's no telling
    what a person is capable of doing to another should someone try
    to intervene where animal abuse is concerned.  I take a lot of chances
    by opening up my big mouth, and like your husband, mine also cowers
    and pretends he doesn't know me.  Though he *is* in agreement with
    me, he lets me do all the talking and reporting, if necessary.
    
    Doing right where animals are concerned is something I grew up with.
    My parents instilled a deep love for them in me and it has never
    waned.  My sister and brother are the same way too.
    
    Even if I get nowhere, at least I know I've tried.  By not putting
    forth an effort, I consider myself as guilty as the person committing
    the act of cruelty.
    
    I do feel we should abide by the moderator's wishes and not get
    into any more ratholes on this issue, just in case our notes stir
    up a few more replies.
    
    Keep up the good work, Therese!!
    
    
    ~Roberta
    
    
    

    Re:  3120.28 by FSHQA1::RKAGNO

    Whose risk?

	�  I take a lot of chances
	�  by opening up my big mouth, and like your husband, mine also cowers
	�  and pretends he doesn't know me.

    If I am hearing that you judge others who do not take chances, 
    please consider the following questions and comments.  I hope 
    that I am wrong, and if so please do not take these comments 
    personally.

    Who do you risk?  Yourself?  Do you put your husband at risk?
    Your children?  Your grandmother? 

    I have also stepped in where angles fear to tread, BUT, I now
    attempt to limit the risk to only myself -- not risk others
    without their knowledge or permission. 

    If, I see a parent hit his/her child in the supermarket I try to
    calm the person down with an "I understand how frustrating ..." 
    Any anger directed towards the person might result in a later
    terrible beating to that child with permanent injury or death. 

    Confrontation with someone over cruelty to their cats can result
    in winning that battle and loosing the war with serious injury to
    a person in their family or yours.  How about your grandmother's
    house being set on fire with her in it?  Drugs and alcohol can do
    terrible things to a cruel person's mind and result in terrible
    violence. 

    I judge the situation and sometimes the better action is a behind
    the scenes with the animal control office.  This may take longer
    and your heart may ache for the animals, but a cool and realistic
    approach is, in my humble opinion, a most valuable way to
    approach the problem. 

    I also feel that not everyone is currently at a point where they
    can step in to speak out.  A call to the Animal Rescue League is
    all they can manage.  Hurray for them!  Shy people, people with
    low self esteem, ACoA's (Adult Children of Alcoholics), medically
    depressed people, over stressed people or over tired may not have
    those "speak out" skills yet.  Maybe its just a bad year.  They
    will be capable later. Writing in to this notes file for help is
    their contribution -- I applaud that effort.  I know people who
    can't even do that. More T & A (tolerance and acceptance) is
    always nice.  Please, no guilt trips laid on others.  We can
    each only speak out for ourselves and lend a hand to others. 

			    -- Julie

    We have been asked several times by the moderators to keep the tone
    of this note from going down a rathole.  I choose not to answer
    your questions, and let this topic be.
    
    --Roberta