Conference misery::feline_v1

    Love the name!
    
    I don't know what caused him to want to eat you, but one thing is
    sure, you should try to convince him that it isn't a good idea.
    
    Be really firm and tell him NO! if he does it again.  Give him lots
    of attention before going to bed to try and use up all his excess
    energy.  
    
    Maybe he is so happy about having a home and being able to sleep
    on a bed that he just got carried away in his excitement!
    
    Sounds like he is a "dickens"
    
    Jo

    Kelsey is a biter!  He sleeps with me every night and in the morning,
    he wraps his paws around my arm and bites down HARD, then starts
    licking wherever he bit.  If he thinks he is giving love bites,
    I'd hate to endure a REAL bite from him!!  After he bites and licks,
    he begins to nuzzle.  I know what you mean about it hurting.  Usually,
    I will give him a gentle tap on the nose and say NO, but it never
    works.  Next morning, he's at it again.
    
    So much for Ragdolls being gentle...
    
    
    /Roberta
    

    As the other commentors said, be firm and consistant with him when he
    bites. It's normal and the behavior will prob'ly go way except for 
    small love bites every now and then. Our Bonkers has been broken of
    this behavior pretty much, unless he's under the influence of catnip.
    
    As far as the lightning and thunder goes, Bonkers decided to "revert"
    to sleeping between us last night at OUR bedtime, instead of in the
    morning, as was his habbit. The lightning and thunder must have made
    him feel like having protection. There was quite a light show and
    ruckus. He patrolled the bedroom for insects to pay for his way.
    
 				Russ
                                                            

It's hard to tell why he bit and pawed at you without knowing more
about him, you, how long you've had him, the environment, etc., etc.
However, if I were to take a guess, I'd say he might have been either
scared of the storm or sensed danger -- as in lightning striking --
and wanted to alert you. The fear theory would make sense since
you say "He proceded to wake me every two hours - purring, nudging me 
hard with his nose right in my face, curling up on my head." It sounds
like he didn't want to be alone during all the commotion and was looking
for comfort and reassurance.

You don't say where you live, but I was in Boston last night and the 
thunderstorm there seemed pretty fierce to me. Normally, thunderstorms 
don't bother me, but the thunder and lightning was so violent that I 
literally jumped several times during loud cracks of thunder. If the 
storm where you were was anything like that and Mr. Charles Dickens 
has never shown aggressive behavior before, I might just assume he's 
afraid of thunder and lightning.

Linda

    When Nippa decides to grace me with her presence in bed, she'll bite me 
    from time to time.  I think it is because I toss alot and might
    kick (unintentionally of course) her or go into her 'small area' (HA!)
    and she is letting me know the only way she knows how that I'm
    disturbing her beauty sleep (god forbid).
    
    Other times she'll give a little love bit and then lick where she bit.
    
    I think she's psyco kitty anyway (she's a torti)
    
    

    Yeah, could have been the storm - Timothy got a little strange -
    he glued his little self (15 lbs.) to me while I was horizontal
    on the couch - I scratched his head while watching TV - he then
    proceeded to DROOL all over the place - every time the light
    show came on or thundered, he drooled more - the other kids
    just sort of roamed and looked startled - guess the bigger
    they are the harder they fall !!!!  Tiny little thing that
    he is !!
    
    E.T._still_mopping_the_?happy?_drool !!

    I remember how Isis used to wake up at 3 am and attack our toes.
    "OUCH" she'd bite!  Isis was always rough when she played.  She'd
    bite down hard enough to break the skin and rabbit-kick like crazy.
    I had a theory about that.  I know that dogs learn how hard to
    bite during play through experience with their littermates.  Dogs
    that are removed from the litter too early sometimes don't learn
    this and can really hurt when playing.  I have a feeling that
    something similar might have happened with Isis, especially
    since she's much more gentle now after having Dundee as a playmate
    for quite a while.  I think she learned to be more gentle.
      Perhaps that's what is happening here.  If so, then I agree with
    the firm reprimand.  If it doesn't work then lock him in the 
    bathroom for a few minute every time he bites.  He'll at least
    learn that when he bites he's going to get exiled.
      Nancy DC
    

    Thanks all!
    
    Very interesting comments.  I think it was the storm that upset him,
    because he has not attacked me again in bed.  I guess being locked 
    in a cage for four weeks depressed him (he was at Angell), and I 
    suppose he is still adjusting.  I adopted him a week ago last 
    Saturday.  For the first time yesterday, he pawed on his blanket
    on the couch before lying down (I call that nesting, I don't know
    if this is the correct term).  It was so funny to watch, because
    he did it standing up with all four paws.  Legs spread apart, gingerly
    kneading away - didn't quite know what to do, but some ancient instinct
    was coming through.  I think he's had a rough life 'til now.  He
    doesn't like to be held too much, but he tolerates it.  I read some
    literature about "games cats play", "breaking bad habits" - my friend
    from Angell brought them to me.  So I understand a little more about
    what he is going through and how to deal with it.  Squirt bottle
    here we come!
            
    From time to time he bites and kicks, but I tell him NO and he listens.
    I am DEFINITELY getting a squirt bottle though, to help break this
    and any more bad habits to come.      
    
    Thanks again for your comments.  I'm sure you'll be hearing from
    me again.  It's been a long time since I've had a cat - my 17 year
    old had to be put to sleep (cancer) about 8 years ago.  I've wanted 
    another since then.

    Paula
    
   
    

    RE .3
    
    Aw, c'mon.... Lightning and Thunder were at home with Deja and their
    Mommy.  They were scared too.....
    
    Sandi
    
    

    re: nesting...some of us call it patty-paws and others call it
    Making Bread or kneading bread or just plain kneading.  You'll
    see this behavior in action in nursing kittens.  They knead
    mommy's tummy on either side of the nipple.  Must stimulate milk.
    Apparently they associate the behavior with feeling warm and happy
    and relaxed and cared for and comfortable.  Its quite a compliment
    to your care!  He's obviously feeling very happy with is new home.
      Nancy DC 
    
    p.s. If he ever becomes a "lapcat" you may want to start trimming
    his nails so he won't puncture your legs when he patty-paws in your
    lap  :-)
    

    re:.10
    
    hi nancy
    
    i have nail clippers and will trim as necessary - thanks.  my friend 
    who works at angell has been very kind in getting me set up to care 
    for this little guy.  i was very pleased to see him kneading away 
    the other night.  i think he will become closer as he gets older.  he
    comes to my lap every so often and we play hide and seek every 
    morning!  it's GREAT!  
        
    but - he attacked me again during sleep time.  i scolded him each
    time he even thought about it.  my mother is getting the water bottle
    today.  he HATES water.  he kept spilling his water last night on
    purpose - it was hysterical - but if he got a paw in it, he was
    all distressed!  so, i think a squirt of water to train him will
    be very effective.  
    
    he is now coming when he's called (for the most part).  i'm excited
    that he is quite trainable still.  
    
    here's to the joys of motherhood  ???????
    

    Its great, ain't it  :-)
    
    Everytime Dundee looks up at me with those BIG round eyes and peeps
    (He doesn't meow he has this tiny sweet little peep) I think my
    heart is going to melt away!!!!!!!!
    

    Hey!  Mr. Dickens kind of squeaks too!  I've yet to hear him howl
    or yowl or even give me a long mrrrrrrrow.  Basically, he says 
    "Prrrrrrrrrrp!"  and "chrrrrrp" and "ew".  What a baby!
    
    Well, we've started disciplining.  And he IS Learning what NO means,
    but he is so full of energy! that it's tough to spray him as he
    tears around the house.  He hates the spray bottle.  I got him early
    this morning in bed as he was getting me.  Poor little terror! 
    He sulked on the floor in a crouched position, wondering if he should
    chance it!  He didn't.  
    
    One good thing - I'm not late for work anymore!  He gets me up early
    and he means it!  No oversleeping allowed.  

    My arm is healing, thank you!  
    
    Paula

    re: "Prrrrrrrrp" etc.  He sounds like Dundee!  You sure you
    haven't got a straight earred fold there?

re: straight ears ????
    
    if you mean is one of his ears "choking the meeeeeeeeowwwwwwwww"
    i'm looking for, i can assure you his ears point up to the north.

    he is living up to his first name - dickens - and not his more
    dignified name - charles dickens!  but he's slowly learning about
    that squirt bottle!  
    
    and he TESTS me!  i think he knows for sure that he isn't supposed
    to bite me hard, so he thinks about it for a while, before he goes 
    for it.  

    this is so funny - but not at 4:00 am. 
    
        
    
    

    Re:  testing
    
    Oh yeah!  I go throught that a lot.  Example:  Dream scratches
    chair, Niniane is in room on couch.  Mom looks at Dream and
    says, "No!".  Dream play deaf and continues to scratch.  Mom
    looks at Dream and says, "No!" louder.  Dream looks at Mom, "You
    talking to me or Niniane?"  Seems startled, trys another scritch.
    Meanwhile, Niniane is sleeping on couch.  Mom says "No, Dream!"
    and levels pump action water cannon which shoots water 30 feet
    (much more satisfying than squirt bottle, and much more effective.
    The most fun and obeidance $2.00 can buy ;-).  Dream jumps off
    chair going "meOW, MeOW, Mom!  I didn't know it was me you
    were talking to!"  Don't even need to use water cannon.  Dream
    goes over to Niniane sleeping on couch.  Bops her on the head,
    "It's all *your* fault!" Niniane looks at me sleepily, "Tell me
    once again how this thing was supposed to keep me company?"
    
    Scenario with husband:  Dream scratching chair, Niniane sleeping on couch.
    Husband walks in, "Get off of that chair!"  Four cats fly down to
    the basement and hide.  Have no idea where the other two were.
    Ian seems to have that disciplinarian type of voice!
    
    Either that or they know Mom's the softie!
    
    Mary-Michael

    re:16
    
    ha ha ha - don't tell me this testing thing is going to LAST!
    how old are Dream and Niniane?
    
    where did you get the oozie (however ya spell it!)  ;)
    
    i don't have a firm voice at all - i try to REASON with him.  
    
    isn't that the stupidest thing you've ever heard?  reasoning with
    a cat while he's in his terrible-two's stage?    

    paula - what's going to happen when i have kids?

    RE: 17
    
    Hmmm,  don't know if I should tell you that....
    
    Dream is 3 and Niniane is 1.5.  And I do have
    trouble with a 2 year old Boogie and an 8 year
    old Charm (who really should know better by now!)
    as well!
    
    They don't outgrow, they just get sneakier!
    
    The "water cannon" is available in most
    toy stores, in prices ranging from $2.00-$5.00.
    
    Mary-Michael

    re: straight-earred fold.
    
    I'm referring to a Scottish Fold which is a breed of cat.  The most
    noticable trait of folds is that their ears fold over and they have
    big round eyes.  If the owl and the pussycat had kids, they'd look
    like a Scottish fold.
      Since folded ears are a dominant trait, not all Scottish folds
    have folded ears.  The ones that don't are called "Straight earred
    Folds".
      Do you know what I meant now?
    

    Kinda like a longhaired Exotic Shorthair, right Nancy!!!  ;-)
    
    cin
    

  A few notes was a paragraph on cats kneading things and how they do this
  as kittens to stimulate the milk from the mother.  My kitten is about
  four and 1/2 months old and is extremely affectionate when she wants to
  be.  One thing she loves to do is to come up to me and rub her face against
  mine and then lick my face (boy, cats tongues are rough on sensitive skin!)
  purring the whole time.  She will even lie on my chest with her face next to
  mine licking me (sometimes in the middle of the night when I am trying to
  sleep).  What bothers me is the other thing that she does - and that is to
  climb up on our bed, knead the blanket, and then actually start sucking on the
  blanket.  She has done this every day since we got her, and even though she
  is getting no satisfaction (ie. milk) from the blanket she will suck on it
  for long periods of time - absolutely soaking the blanket.  Is this normal?
  Will she eventually grow out of this - or should I do something to discourage
  it?  I really don't mind her doing it I just don't know if it is good for
  her...

    re: .21 - what I've heard is that kittens who are weened too early
    will continue to suckle.  I had a friend who's kitten did exactly
    the same thing.  
      As long as she isn't ingesting the blanket material I don't think
    it will hurt her, however, she may damage your blanket.  I don't
    think its a behavior you want to encourage.  I suggest you try
    distracting her from the blanket at first.  Maybe with some string
    or a ball.
    
      BTW - when she licks you she is "grooming" you.  If she had a
    kitty companion you might see them grooming each other.   Mao
    regularly grooms me - she seems to like grooming my eyebrows
    when I'm in bed.  Must be the area most like another cat's fur :-)
    
    It was very amusing to have my mother tell me one day that Bumpy
    had licked her had and "Her tongue is rough!!"  This is after
    we'd had Bumpy for about 9 years.  It surprized me that my mother
    didn't know that cats have rough tongues :-)
      Nancy
    

    
    	Missy's mom died when she was four weeks old, and she has
    	had a fetish for afghans ever since we've had her. I think
    	she likes the `nubbies', she used to nurse it for hours! It
    	wasn't until just now when I read this note that I realized
    	she *doesn't do it anymore* - she's a little over a year old.
    	So, just humor your kitten, and before you realize it, no more
    	soggy blankets!!
    
    	Sherry
    

    re: folded ear scotty! 
    
    - thanks for teaching me that
    
    you may have a point here!  i'm going to be VERY disappointed if
    he turns out to be a nasty cat.  sorry to say that - i love animals,
    but i really wanted a companion.  i think and hope that he's in his 
    adolescence and also i think he is DYING to go outside.  i'm planning
    to work with him on that this weekend.
    
    progress report:  this morning he licked me a little on the arm.
    then he got that look on his face and i kept telling him no and
    he didn't but i could tell, the temptation was getting the better
    of him.  he has this thing about chomping on my arms when he wants 
    me to get out of bed!  this morning, after we got up, i was petting 
    him and he wanted to bite my arm.  so i let him and it wasn't so 
    bad! he didn't bite hard, he just kind of "teethed" and kicked at me
    - no claws either.  but then he got a little carried away and
    i yelled at him and he got scared.  we're talking a one-year old 
    - he is not a little, tiny kitten.  he's big.      

    i WISH i knew what he went through as a kitten/stray because at
    times he seems afraid of my hands and arms.  then again, sometimes
    he is lovable.  i guess he is adjusting to a new atmosphere.  
    remember, he was cooped up in a cage for 4 weeks, adopted once for 
    a short time and then brought back to the shelter for about a week 
    - then i got him.
    
    i wouldn't mind finding an animal behaviorist to help me learn what
    is natural, what isn't and how to deal with his naughty antics.

    rambling on,
    
    paula
    
    and another thing . . . he doesn't suckle at all - but he does knead
    on his favorite blanket - standing - all four legs spread wide apart
    and all four paws going at it lightly - it's good to see that he
    is becoming more and more "at home".  

Nami went through a very mean stage.  She would give me that look and then
attack my hand, ankle, whatever.  I know she wasn't abused or anything, I 
don't know why she did it.  I convinced her that she wasn't supposed to be
a mean cat with the "kitty jail", and C.A.T..
Every time she would attack me I would say "NO!"(just once) and put her in
'kitty jail'(the bathroom with the light off and no toys or windows) for
about 1/2 hour.  When I let her out she would be all apologies and very
sweet and I would praise her for her affection. 
I used the C.A.T. when she would attack the couch, chair, etc.  
She started this mean streak when she was about 8 months.  She's now 
1 yr and 3 months and never attacks or bites me.
Try the 'kitty jail' it really works.  
You also need to give them their space.  I didn't realize that at first, 
maybe that's why she got so hostile.

Good luck, and don't give up. 

Becky

    re: .sucking
    
    When I was a kid we had a siamese named Fuji.  He used to suck on
    blankets, and did so all his life.  We, too, had heard it was from
    being weaned too early, and we also heard that it was more common
    in Siamese (fact or fiction?  I don't know.)  Anyway, the blankets
    weren't so bad, but Fuji would also suck sweaters while you were in
    them.  Nothing so comfortable as a soggy chest!
    
    Love them Siamese,
    Karen, Tristan, Tenzing and Max.
    
    P.S.  On a total tangent -- I have ALWAYS loved Siamese, but my
    husband objects to their loud voices.  He recently said that when
    we get back down to 2 cats (hopefully a VERY long time from now)
    that he probably won't mind if I get a Siamese!  Hip Hip Hooray!
    So, with any luck at all I'll have a blue or lynx point baby in
    about 20 years!  :-)

    If you want to find out more about cat behavior, pick up some books
    on the subject.  I have a couple and if you come to the cookout
    in September I'll loan them to you...Provided you PROMISE to give
    them back. 
      One of my favorite titles is "How to live with a neurotic cat"
      Nancy DC
    

    Since I have been letting Dickens outside, he is MUCH more mellow.
    and he definitely knows the word NO.
    
    The kitty jail has been brought up to me before - sounds mean but
    good.  
    
    Thanks all, for your suggestions/support.  
    
    Next problem: fleas.  He's got 'em BAD.  now the house is going
    to have them and my parents will disown both of us before you can
    say . . . 

    Stop letting him out and you won't have a flea problem.  In the
    meantime I recommend a flea-bath and a flea-bomb or two or three
    for the house.  If you don't want to do the bathing yourself then
    either have the vet do it or hire a groomer.  I have a friend who
    is a professional groomer who could do it but she's in Mansfield
    Mass.  She comes to your house - provided you aren't too far away.
    
    I personally don't like the powders or sprays.  I'm afraid of the
    cat ingesting the poison.  Whichever you use, tho, get it from your
    vet.  Then you'll get the most effective and safest products.  And
    don't wait - the longer you wait the more fleas you'll have to deal
    with.
    
    Also, fleas carry Feline Infectous Anemia and Tapeworms.  Be on
    the lookout for those.
      Good luck
        Nancy DC

    As for the house, it might be cheaper in the long run to get a
    professional exterminator. They can use chemicals that are safe
    for pets, AND they usually guaranty that the pest stays away for
    90 days or they redo it for you. I've had problems with ants and
    wasps and found that in the long run I spent less money on an exterminator
    than the do-it-yourself kits.) If you are in the Waltham area, I can
    recommend a good one.
    
    Deb

    I agree with Deb, get an exterminator.  It's easier and faster, and
    much more effective.  I can also recommend someone in the Fitchburg MA
    area.  
    
    Re: 29: Nancy,
    
    Flea shampoos and dips are just as dangerous, or maybe even more so
    than powders and sprays.  When you use shampoos and dips, the chemical
    is absorbed through the skin.  Dips also don't get rinsed off, so that
    the cat can also ingest them by licking themself.  That's why it's so
    important to get the products from your vet.  I also make sure if I'm
    going to use any flea product that I have the antidote in the house
    before putting anything on the cat.  Of course, persians are more
    sensitive to flea products than most other cats.
    
    cin
    

>                                                 I also make sure if I'm
>    going to use any flea product that I have the antidote in the house
>    before putting anything on the cat.
    
    GOOD POINT!! What do you use for an antidote? Where do you get it?
    
    Deb

    Re: .28  Fleas!!  The constant war!!  Aaargh...
                          
    To get rid of a flea infestation, you need to kill the fleas AND their
    hatching eggs (you can't kill the eggs themselves, short of burning).
    The flea has a 7 day life cycle, so we repeat this procedure every
    5 to 6 days for 2 to 3 weeks, to get rid of an infestation.
    
    Since the majority of the flea life cycle is spent OFF your cat (they
    use the cat only for feeding necessary for their breeding), you need 
    to de-flea the entire house (primarily carpets, sofas, and bedding)
    first.  For this a flea bomb works OK, but you need to clear yourself
    and your cats out of the room(s) being bombed.  We prefer a "premise
    spray" that you can get from your vet (the one we use is called
    "VetKem") which you spray on all infested surfaces (carpet, etc.) to
    kill the little @!@#&%%@*#%.  
    
    We do the house first, then the cats (that way, the fleas that jump
    off the cat, die anyway).  For the cat itself, use a flea spray from
    your vet (ours is called "Paramist").  Spray the cat completely, DON'T 
    FORGET THEIR FACES - BUT BE CAREFUL, don't spray it directly on their
    face, spray it onto your hands, then rub it onto their face.  It's a
    good idea to start with the face, especially around the eyes, nose and 
    ears, because the fleas like to hide in these areas.  Then spray the
    rest of the cat, and ruffle their fur to get the spray in contact with
    as much skin as possible.  (NOTE: These sprays will usually cause the
    cat to drool, since they will bathe themselves, and ingest it.  THIS
    IS AN IMPORTANT REASON TO BUY YOUR FLEA PRODUCTS FROM YOUR VET, as
    they will supply products that are not toxic to your cat.)  After
    spraying the cat(s), catch them again and comb them with a flea comb
    (yes, a Flea Comb.  This is a comb that we can buy at many pet stores,
    it is made by "TWINCO", and it says "Flea Comb" right on it.  What it
    is, is a comb with the teeth close enough together, that fleas get
    caught in the comb).
    
    If you prefer not to use a spray on your cat, there are other products
    that your vet has (I believe they are perscription products, rather
    than over the counter, and they are more expensive), called "ProBan"
    and "ProSpot".  ProBan is a tablet that you give the cat like any
    other pill.  ProSpot is a liquid that you rub into a small spot
    of your cat's skin, which is then absorbed into the cat's system,
    and then repels the fleas.  Even in these cases I strongly recommend
    combing them with a flea comb.
    
    Once you have rid yourself of an infestation, you should get into
    the habit of "maintenance".  This mainly consists of combing them
    with the aforementioned flea comb.  We try to comb each cat once
    to twice a week (as long as there is no infestation, otherwise we
    do it daily), more often for the outdoor cats.  This maintenance
    doubles as an inspection, to keep tabs on new potential flea
    infestations.
    
    Vacuuming is the other maintenance procedure, and is also of primary
    interest to people who would rather not use any sprays, etc.  When
    you have fleas in your carpet, vacuum daily, and BURN the vacuum
    bag immediately, otherwise, the flea will just crawl out of the
    vacuum, and re-infest.
    
    One more item.  For maintenance, and for minor infestations (ones
    that you discover before they get bad), give the cat fresh garlic.
    For maintenance, we give them the garlic about once or twice a month,
    for infestations, we give it daily.  It's non toxic, and fleas hate
    the garlic as it comes out through the cat's skin.      
    
    Normally, the cat won't care for the garlic, so you have to give
    it to them like you would a pill.  Cut a fresh clove of garlic into
    pill sized chunks, and "medicate" them with it.  (For the benefit
    of anyone who has not had to give their cat a pill, I will attempt
    to describe the procedure.  I take hold of the back of the cat's
    neck between the pinky and ring finger of my right hand, then I
    grab their top jaw, with the pointer finger and thumb of my right
    hand.  I hold the garlic (or pill) between the pointer and thumb
    of my left, and with the middle finger of my left hand, gently pull
    down on the cat's lower jaw, while lifting the top jaw (actually
    the entire head), so that the mouth and throat are open.  Gently
    drop the garlic/pill into the rear of the cat's mouth (as near to
    the throat as you are comfortable with), and shut their jaw.  If
    they refuse to swallow, it sometimes helps to blow gently in their
    face.  If all else fails, try again.  Good luck).  
    
    Paul Kriner
    (Co-property, along with my wife, of 21 cats)
    
    

    re: .31  Thanks for setting me straight Cindy.  I've learned so
    much from FELINE.
      

    Off the top of my head, I don't remember what the antidote is.  I also
    think it depends on what flea products you use.
    
    Talk to your vet, she'll know what you need.
    
    cin
    

    Cin,
    
    Do you mean epinephrine?  I keep it on hand for vaccine reactions
    and anaphalactic shock, but didn't know that you could use it for
    flea product reactions too.
    
    Jo

    re: .33
    
    To prevent fleas from leaving the vacuum cleaner bag, sprinkle
    a large amount of flea powder on the rug and vacuum up so it
    stays inside the bag and kills whatever enters the bag.  Do this
    every time you change the bag!
    
    E.T.

    I'd like to put in another vote for a flea comb as maintenance.
    I find this a big help, and I believe it reduces the chance of hairballs
    also.
    
    I've always thrown out the vacuum cleaner bag, figuring since it was 
    outside in the trash I didn't have to burn it.  ET's suggestion
    about flea powder in the bag sounds like it will save me some money
    since I won't have to do this after each vacuuming now.  Thanks ET.
    

    re: 38
    
    You are welcome - I can't take credit for the idea, someone told
    me about it!  It does seem to make sense - I know some one who
    vacuums up a half a can of powder, but I think that a small 
    pile will really do the trick - it blows around so much when
    the vac is on!