Conference misery::feline_v1

    I think Bouf is just trying to tell you that she isn't happy that
    you brought the kitten in without consulting her first.  She will
    get over it eventually.
    
    I wouldn't try to pet her or cuddle her while she is hissy and
    growling.  I think that will reinforce her behavior and make the
    truce longer in coming.  I ignore my cats when they behave that
    way.  If she should bite you she should be disciplined.  I would
    put her in a room by herself to "chill out" if she bites.  With
    my cats, the best discipline is to deprive them of my company. 
    It is much more effective than yelling and screaming at them.
    
    I also try not to get involved in the little scuffles that are sure
    to occur between her and the kitten.  They have to work out the
    pecking order now that there are two of them.  Let them work it
    out on their own, and try not to intervene unless one is getting
    seriously hurt.  If you do have to break them up, don't do it with
    bare hands or arms, they might accidently hurt you.  Spray them
    with water to separate them, then put them in separate rooms till
    they calm down.
    
    Hang in there, it will get better.
    
    Jo

    I've entered this suggestion before but will gladly do it again.
    The Wilbourn method of introducing a new cat is the best I have
    found.  Basically what needs to be done is to ignore the newcomer
    except for providing necessities.  Pay more attention to the cat
    already in residence.  Talk to the cat in res. about the new kitten
    refering to it as his/her kitten.  It may take awhile and even better
    if you can confine the new cat to it's own room, preferably one
    that the cat in res. doesn't use. It will also help if your husband
    is the one to provide primary care of the new kitten.  Good luck!!
    
    This is entered hastily  please feel free to contact me with any
    questions!!
    
    MaryAnne

    I have also used the Wilbourne method to introduce all newcomers
    with great success.  But, part of the problem here is that the cats
    have already been introduced.  My understanding of the Wilbourne
    method is that the two cats should just happen to find each other,
    with the resident cat not knowing how the new cat happened to get
    there. (yeah, right!  I haven't run into too many stupid cats yet
    ;^})                                                             
    
    But, Carole Wilbourne does suggest paying no attention to the newcomer
    until the resident cat accepts the newcomer.  This is tough, especially
    when the newcomer is a cute, cuddly, kitten.  But, we do what we
    have to do...
    
    Jo

    I'm going through something similar right now with the stray I brought
    in last week.  I confine Bailey and Amelia to my room during the
    day and Carrie to the spare room.  When I get home I open the doors
    and go about my business.  Carrie acts like she owns the house and
    goes exploring with B and A not far behind.  We get a few hisses
    now and then but there's only been 2 semi-scarey squabbles that
    only took a spritz from the water bottle to break up.  (BTW, I always
    have my ears primed to hear the squabbles when I leave them alone.)
    
    When the cats do get close (they've even touched noses a couple
    of times) I do try to praise them if they're not growling or hissing.
    It probably sounds silly but when they're getting close I (in my
    sweetest voice) say "Bailey make friends with Carrie, oh, good girl"
    (or whoever is getting close to who) I call Carrie their "kitty
    guest" and tell them we need to take care of her.  Jo Ann asked
    me the other day if they've (pardon me) "sniffed butts" yet.  So
    (this is going to sound really bizarre) now I say "sniff butt Bailey,
    sniff butt Amelia" (gads, you probably think I'm weird).
    
    All this dumb stuff seems to be helping.  We have very few squabbles
    now.  Last night they were all 3 actually playing in bags, on the
    cat tree and with the Kitty Tease within a couple of feet of each
    other and no one got bent out of shape.  Tonight I may get brave 
    and not confine Carrie, and leave my bedroom door open to see what 
    happens.  If it gets crazy everyone will get put back in their own 
    room  (even us night owls have to get some sleep).
    
    Hang in there with the new kitten.  Its only a matter of time before
    things settle down.  It took Bailey months to accept Amelia and
    then another 6 months to forgive me.  Its only been about 10 days
    since Carrie arrived and Bailey still lets me love her so I guess
    it gets easier with her after the 1st introduction.
                                                                       
    Jan

    I'm not going to offer any suggestions as I'm not doing too
    well with my own situation, but I did want to make a comment
    about the "biting".
      My own cats have engaged in this "aborted" biting behavior
    when they are very very angry with me.  Mao did this at the
    cat show.  Basically they hiss and snarl and start to bite.
    The bite stops with the teeth pushing on the skin.  There is
    no intent to actually bite me.  What they're doing is saying
    "I'm really really upset and angry, and I want you to know it."
    Bumpy has been known to do it during baths.  Isis has not done
    it at all and I don't think Dundee knows how to be angry!  (I 
    LOVE SCOTTISH FOLDS)
      This is an extremely rare occurance that only happens under
    severe stress/fear/anger.  I have never done more than tell
    them to stop it.  To me its a danger sign so I don't punish
    them.  I want them to tell me if they are that upset.
      Nancy DC
    

    Nancy, don't be so hard on yourself with your situation.
    Each and every cat is DIFFERENT.  It's not that your are not
    successful - it's that this particular bunch of cats that
    you are trying to integrate are not coorperating.  Most of
    the time they will after a "time" - sometimes it just 
    doesn't happen or it happens with contingencies.  Stay away
    from my face and dont' get too near my space, and I'll let you
    live here in a sort of peace and quiet when I'm ready to give
    in and do it !!
    
    I have to say that with Charlie I'm doing something that I
    have never tried - things are going pretty well seeing that it's
    only been a week yesterday.  Last week I brought in 2 new cats -
    one thinks she was born there and thinks she owns the joint - the
    other is a bit slower being accepted by the rest of the crew.  The
    crew never said boo to Lil, but has much to say to Charlie and
    Charlie returns the vocal comments!  The good news is that Charlie
    is now playing with toys, wandering about the living room a bit
    - stays near the couch where he feels safe - goes up and down stairs
    by "himself" (I was helping him in that area so he wouldn't get
    to close to anyone - that's what I had never done was carry a cat
    up and down stairs!!  Guess we gotta do what we gotta do to help
    things alone.
    
    Hang in there

    
    re. 3
    Maybe taking the new kitten out of the situation for a day or so
    and giving Bouf a chance to relax and then starting over by confining
    the new kitten and following through with the wilbourne method is
    the way to go? (just a suggestion) Though I have known people who
    have followed the method under the same circumstances as Bouf and
    her new kitten and as soon as the people started ignoring the kitten
    and paying special attention to the resident cat things took a turn
    for the better.  I know how hard it is to ignore the little ones
    ( I've been through it too!!) but we just sneak pats and whispers
    when the grouchy one is sleeping or otherwise occupied.
    
    MaryAnne

    Biting is an extreme way for a cat to get a point across.  The hissing
    and growling should suffice as a warning that the cat is angry
    and wants to be left alone.  I discourage biting in my cats because
    I do not like to be bitten, I don't want to worry about my friends
    being bitten, and I show my cats, and they absolutely *must not*
    bite a judge at a show.  This is another area where personal judgement
    will have to come into play.  Since it is hard for me to teach the
    cat which situations it is okay to bite in, I find it easier to
    teach them that biting is not allowed, period.  
    
    I also think that taking the kitten away, and then reintroducing
    it will only aggravate the problem.  Taking the kitten away may
    give Bouf a false sense of security, and then to bring it back might
    make things even worse.  It might be best to just let them work
    it out.  And be on hand to supervise any scuffles.  Usually, an
    adult cat will not hurt a kitten.
    
    Jo

    I agree with Jo--my cat bites like Nancy said her cat bites, but
    this is in mutual play only (I have never been bitten by a cat or
    dog where they actually drew blood).  Ashely will grab my hand and
    seem to gnaw on it, but in all honesty, it hurts even when it's
    just pressure on my skin.  I tell her stop it and she lets go, because
    I don't want her to think it is okay to bite me.  I've noticed that
    Bones bites when he's hurt and I touch a sore spot--I'm sure we've
    all seen that-they meow and start to bite, then realize what they
    are doing and pull back--Bones presently has a very sore mouth (he
    has had his jaw broken in the past and it healed badly--he has many
    teeth which are now supposed to come out, but the all mighty $$$
    gets in the way--I am hoping for next month!).  Since his mouth
    is sore, he doesn't bite at ALL, just goes through the motions if
    I hit a sore spot or if he suddenly is trying to play (Bones doesn't
    know how to play-but that's a different note).  Ashley on the other
    hand bites and sometimes hard, so I am trying to discourage her
    even though we are playing (after all, I don't bite HER).
    
    Of course, if you have a cat that is being shown or regularly handled
    by other people, you should discourage biting, even in play.  In
    my experience, it takes much, great pain or fear to get bitten by
    your average domesticated dog or cat--most animals KNOW they should
    not bite, but react on reflex in those situations.  I don't know
    if upset/mad is "good" enough to allow an animal to bite--ie, they
    might not like the bath, but that's too bad--they should not bite.
    Again, pain or extreme fear is more justifiable (I'm not picking
    on you Nancy, I just remember your note first off).
    
    However, on cat compatability, patience is the key word.  In the
    long run, a week or even two isn't that long--it only seems like
    it.  Even a month of status-establishing isn't that long, it just
    is annoying for a while.  There are exceptions to every rule, but
    being patient and allowing the cats to adjust is your best bet as
    long as no one is getting hurt.  It took six months for Bones to
    come into my bedroom (because Ashley was in there)--but now I can't
    get him out of it.  And they still squabble.
    
    kim

 Well, things seem to be getting a little better.  Boufetta will now roam the
 house, staying away from wherever Gummi (the kitten) is.  She lets us pet her
 now and even brought her favorite toy into bed last night (although she still
 wouldn't play).  It looks like Gummi is going to be the dominant cat in the
 household, even though she is only 1/4 the size!  Last night we were playing
 with Boufetta on the floor and the kitten was standing on the back of the 
 couch.  As soon as Boufetta caught site of Gummi she started hissing and
 growling.  Well, Gummi decided that she had had enough of being hissed at
 and proceeded to hiss back at Boufetta, jump off of the couch, and run as
 hard and as fast as she could straight at Boufetta until she ran into her!
 Boufetta went screaming into the bedroom with little Gummi chasing her down
 the hall hissing.  I was so shocked that I didn't know what to do!  I mean
 Boufetta will get mad at us and bat our hands with her paw but she runs from
 a teenie little kitten - what a wimp!  Oh well, I just hope that they can get
 to be friends.  Thanks for all of your suggestions!

 Terri

    I think that Boufetta will eventually forgive you for your "mistake"
    and accept the situation.  She may even discover that kittens can
    be great fun.
    
    Sounds like the kitten is going to get this situation straightened
    out on her own.  ;^)
    
    Jo

    Tigger does the same thing to Snuggles.  Tigger is a year younger
    but is about 5 lbs. heavier than Snuggles.  Last night they had
    a big brawl.  I had just settled into bed and the two of them 
    started.  I usually let them go at it, but last night I had to 
    get up and break them up.  I never heard it so bad.  They've
    even started to hurt each other.  Tigger has gotten a couple
    of bloody scratches around his ears and Snuggles I think got
    it in the eye.  He was walking around for about a day with his
    eye half shut and dark puss coming out.  It cleared itself up,
    luckily.  I think sometimes Snuggles just wants to be left alone
    and Tigger keeps pestering him.  
    
    I'm sure if you're just patient they'll work everything out.  Just
    expect some squables now and then.
    
    Kathy

    I know all about wimpy old timers!!!
    
    Bones is (as I think I've said before) at least 9 years old, probably
    older.  He's had a rough life--he's about the most rickety cat I've
    seen, and I'm surprised that he doesn't creak when he walks.  All
    he wants to do is sleep, eat and get petted (but he's a doll!).
    
    Ashley (the Cat That Looks Like a Cow) is my first really ALL MY
    OWN kitty.  I picked her up from the pound when I was 18--she's
    now about 6 yrs old (that's about 28 or something like that in kitty
    years--she's older than me!) and tho she isn't quite a kitten, she's
    still plenty frisky when she wants to be.  I came home one nite
    to find all my paper napkins, which had been on top of a 7ft high
    oven cabinet, scattered and torn across my living room.  Kitty fang
    marks were in the survivors, so apparantly Ashley had gotten bored
    while I was at work and school and decided to take out her hostility
    on the napkins..
     
    Anyway, Ashley, as most cats do to other cats, is prone to decide
    she wants to play tag and jump on her intended partner, or just
    bat the unsuspecting one in the face to instigate something (no
    hiss, no growl, just POUNCE and then run like hell).  Bones, being
    the old crotchety man, wants nothing of this sort and he gets rather
    perturbed when she does this.  This includes being perturbed and
    hissing/growling whenever she gets "too close" by his standards,
    and they have never really gotten along since they lived with me.
    Ashley still starts things, and Bones will growl and grumble for
    about the next half hour when he feels like she's encroaching (to
    which Ash will give him and me this most innocent look), but I simply
    ignore it and dole out my attention as evenly as I can.
    
    I guess it goes to show that sometimes the cats won't ever be buddies
    but will learn tolerance (tho I notice they stand together in the
    morning when they are getting fed, and Bones simply makes a face
    when Ash rubs against him).   I just figure he's old and crochety
    and that'ss the way it is.  :)
    
    kim

    re: biting - The behavior I described has probably only happened
    twice in Bumpy's case and once in Mao's.  I also feel that it might
    be inaccurate to call it biting since no pressure was applied. 
    The cat quickly put its teeth against my skin.  Is that biting?
    I do firmly say no, but I don't feel its necessary, in my case,
    to make a big deal about it.  In Jo's case, with the shows and all,
    it would be far more critical.
    
       Nancy

    We are going through the same kind of thing at our house right now.
    Trouble (grumpy old lady :-)  ) was not happy at being "invaded"
    by these two streaks of fur (they didn't stay still long at first).
    She hisses/growls when they get too near, but we have noticed some
    improvement.  Last night I was lying on the bed on my back and Trouble
    came and lay on top of me (first time in quite a while).  While
    I was petting her and telling her I had missed her, I saw a kitten
    come into the room-it was Becky.  I ignored Becky and kept petting
    Trouble.  Becky jumped on the bed which should have earned a growl,
    but Trouble ignored her.  Then Becky started playing with Trouble's
    tail.  She "attacked" it four times before Trouble growled.  Even
    after that Trouble stayed for a while longer, then as she got off
    me to leave, she looked at Becky and hissed.  What I'm trying to
    say is watching for small improvements will help you to realize
    that it is getting better.  After all, it only took two weeks for
    Trouble to get this far, and this is the cat I thought would never
    accept another cat, let alone two.  
    
    Bernice
    Mother_of_Trouble,Becky,&Velcro
    

    When we got Pounce, Kitty was 2 years old and QUEEN BEE!
    When she first realized that we had a new addition to the
    family, she ran and hid under the couch. The expression
    on her face was like I'd betrayed her. I felt really bad.
    She was my baby...NO ONE ELSE'S!
    
    She growled and hissed and did everything a cat can do
    to make Pounce feel unwelcomed. She did this for a couple
    of weeks. Then we slowly started to let Pounce out of the
    bedroom and the two of them would curiously look and sniff
    at each other. It wouldn't take long, and suddenly Kitty
    would GROWWWWL and HISSSSSSSSSS and threaten poor little
    Pounce's life. Immediately after she would do this, I would
    look at her and say very sharp and firmly, "NO!" and point
    my finger at her face. She cowed down immediately and would
    not go any farther with her threatening behaviour. Every
    time she got nasty we would say "NO!" and she would quiet
    down.
    
    Now she is 5 and Pounce will be 3 and they dearly love each
    other. But sometimes they rough house a little, and Kitty
    is the first one to HISSSSSSSSSS....  And I just say in
    normal tone, "no..." and she settles down then. 
    
    Of course this technique is totally useless if your cat
    does not know what the word NO means...
                                           

  Things are going much better now.  Boufetta (big cat) and Gummi (little cat)
  now seem to tolerate eachother and actually appear to play with eachother on
  occasion (if you consider taking turns chasing one another at break neck 
  speed all over the apartment playing 8^) ).  Boufetta still gets angry when
  she wants to get babied by me and Gummi gets in the way - but now she just
  bats her over the head and says "get lost!".  

  The question I have concerns the kitten.  Gummi was doing just fine sharing
  the litter box with Boufetta for the first week.  Now , all of a sudden, she
  is NOT using the litter box at all and is instead taking dumps behind my
  dining room table.  It seems like that it always happens right after she 
  eats - like instead of taking the time to go down the hallway to the
  bathroom she decides to run a few feet under the table.  We have tried
  rubbing her nose in it and then putting her in the litter box to no
  avail, so now after we do that we lock her in the bathroom for a little
  while.  Nothing seems to work.  Today I put her food bowl and water right
  outside the bathroom and I'll see how that works but any other suggestions
  are welcome.

  Aside from that we are all having a ball together!  Paul and I love to sit
  and watch our two friends "play" together and usually end up laughing
  hysterically at the two of them - although Bouf HATES to be laughed at!
  Gummi has an incredible temper.  I took her to the vet and it turns out that
  she had ear mites - well, I have never heard a cat scream like this one did
  when the doctor gave her the ear treatment - especially from such a little
  pair of lungs!!  Anytime we try to make her do something that she doesn't 
  want to do she lets out a scream that would make someone think that we were
  killing her.  When she does this Boufetta looks at her like she has two
  heads and 10 legs (Bouf rarely ever makes any noise - usually just an open
  mouth silent meow).

 Bye for now - I LOVE this conference!
   Terri (and Paul and Boufetta and Gummi Bear)

    Terri,
    
    I have found that praising them when they do it right is a lot more
    effective than scolding them for doing it wrong.  Also, kittens
    almost always go potty after eating, so when you are there, pick
    her up and carry her to the litter box, then praise her and pet
    her while she is in it.  If you put her in the box when you are
    angry with her, she will come to associate the litterbox with your
    anger, making her unwilling to go there to do her business.  Rubbing
    her nose in it doesn't do any good, so no point in putting her through
    that humiliation.
    
    She may also be intimidated by Boufetta and think that the box belongs
    to Bouf.  She may need her own box, or at least have the option
    of her own box for awhile.
    
    Also, take a stool sample to the vet to check for internal parasites.
    Sometimes a change in litterbox habits can be an indicator that
    something physical is going on.
    
    Jo