Conference misery::feline_v1

    Assuming your cats will be safe outside (traffic? dogs? wierd
    kids? Have they had all their shots?) your cats will probably
    worship you if you let them out.
    
    Aja loves it outside, but only gets to go if I'm out there with
    her.... I *never* see her happier. She runs like the wind, chases
    bugs, kills sticks, purrs like there's no tomorrow...
    
    Edd

    Spanking Tigger may not be the best way to teach him not to do things
    that you dont' want him to do.  If you really don't want to put
    him out, or give him away, commit yourself to do the following.
    
    1) trim his nails at least once a week.
    2) when you aren't home to train him, keep him in a room where he
       can't do any damage.
    3) get yourself a spray bottle, and fill it with water.  When he
       does something that he is not allowed to do, squirt him.
    4) commit to be consistent with this training, and never allow him
       to do anything that is not allowed.
    5) provide him with a scratching post of his own that he can scratch
       on.  Cats have to scratch.
    6) Give him lots of praise and attention when he uses his post.
    
    Try these things and see what happens.  You should start seeing
    an improvement in his behavior.
    
    Jo

    
    I'm assuming you are against declawing for whatever reason...don't
    start another whole discussion on that....but that solved our problems
    and "the boys" remain indoor cats.  They are two years old and still
    on what I call 'full bore' racing around the house.  One even pretends
    to claw on the woodwork and couches so I know if he still had his
    claws we'd be shredded in several places.
    
    Otherwise if you let them out you might want to try a harness with
    a run and supervised excursions.  It might be hard to do that starting
    with a year old cat.  We did it with our old cat but started when
    she was a kitten and it worked well for 16 years.
    
    I've found they don't mellow out until about 5 and sometimes not
    then when it comes to clawing.
    
    

    
    
    I think its a good idea(except if you live on an extremely busy
    street).  My cats have always gone out and I have not had
    many problems with it at all.  It gets them in the habit of going
    out to play and in to eat, rest and get attention.  Works well 
    for me.
    
    
                                   donna
    
    P.S. Of course my new kitten will not be going out until he is
    bigger.
    

    Is Tigger altered?  Also, I think that playing with him to tucker him out
    would help reduce his energy level.  He's about at the most
    energetic age right now, I think, so things should become better
    in the future.
    

    Let them go out, if they want.  But please make sure they are
    up to date on all shots (and that they are neutered- if the arn't
    by now).
    
    I let Nippa out and she does very well, not to say that I don't
    worry when she's late coming in.....  She even asks to go out.
    I leave a bowl of fresh water out for her, and she has a few
    places to go for shelter/hiding if need be.
    
    ANother alternative could be a screened in porch....  My friends
    mom is doing it for their 2 declawed and 1 aged cats.  They can
    get the bennies from being outside all day w/ out the threats (she
    lives in the center of town).
                                               
    
    Good luck!
    
    Michele & Nippa

    I have found that my cats ignore normal scratching posts - but they
    do like an old log that I brought in from the woods.  Rub some catnip
    on it to attract Tigger to it.  Make sure the log has bark on it.
     It will make a mess that has to be cleaned up, but if it saves
    tigger, who cares!
    
    Certainly sounds as if Tigger likes the smell of the fresh air and
    wants to go out, but if you have traffic then you can't really permit
    him to go out.  Cats are not usually smart about cars.
    
    Once, when I lived on an extremely busy street, and only had one
    cat, I put the cat in a cat harness and attached him to one of those
    soft leads which I attached to one of those steel twisted rods that
    screw into the ground (you get them in pet stores) and which permit
    that animal to not get tangled.  Of course, if a cat is tied outside,
    you have to either stay w/him or watch closely because he can't
    get away from a dog.
    
    

    if you let him out, keep in mind that the average life span of an
    outdoor cat (we *are* talking average, mind you) is about 3-4 years
    compared with 14+ for indoor only cats.
    
    just something to keep in mind.
    
                                                             ---kim

    
    
    I think the log is a great idea..
    
    My mumma kitty goes outside, but usually with my supervision, and
    she only *likes* to stay out for about a half hour..
    
    There are other uneutered cats in my neighborhood, plus light traffic
    (almost nobody can avoid that!) and two dogs, ususally on leashes,
    but still.  Also a few kids..  with all that in mind, I do supervise
    her and she doesn't stay out for long..  she *loves* to stratch
    on trees..
    
    I'm assuming Tigga is one year old?  There is a good chance that
    give or take a few months he will calm down a little..
    
    The waterbottle also works very well, and as been discussed in this
    file before husbands/boyfriends *love* using it!  8*)  Maybe it
    will give your husband a chance to vent out his frustrations and
    he'll feel he is really doing something to train the cat????  
    
    
    I agree with spanking..  this usually doesn't train a cat too well..
    I can't bring myself to do it anyway!!
    
    F.

    Thank you all for responding so fast.  I've read all your replies
    and they are great ideas.  (Most of which I've seen before, but
    they kind of went in one ear and out the other until I ran into
    a problem.)  Here are my thoughts:
    
    Those of you who said spanking doesn't do much good, you're exactly
    right.  If I spank Tigger he doesn't try to run, he just looks at
    me with the "go ahead, make my day" look.  I think with the fat
    that's on him and the fact that I try not to spank him to hard for
    fear of really hurting him, he just doesn't feel it.  I've used
    the spray bottle before and he didn't like it.  I'll have to bring
    it out again.  I just go tired of having to go get it everytime
    he's bad.  It was easier to just go right up to Tigger and yell
    and give him a little swat on the nose or the paws.
    
    Tigger and Snuggles have had all their shots except FelV.  They've
    also both been neutered.  If I let them out, I'll get them their
    FelV shots.
    
    I did think about declawing both of them when I got Tigger neutered.
    I decided not to since it would be very painful for Snuggles and
    I didn't want to put him through it.  So I decided not to get Tigger
    declawed either since I didn't want Snuggles to have the upper hand
    on Tigger.
    
    I have a harness.  I'll have to look into getting a run.  I will
    also see if I can find a log.  Tigger seems to like scratching wood.
                      
    If I trim Tiggers nails, should I get a trimmer especially for pets
    or is a toe nail clipper ok to use?                  
    
    I did try putting Tigger in a separate room for a while, but I felt
    so sorry for him.  I've seriously been considering doing that again.
    
    These are all great ideas and I will try them.  I think if I let
    them outside, it will have to be under my supervision.  I also have
    a closed in porch.  In fact, last year that's were they spent the
    summer.  I think they'll be going out there a little earlier this
    year. 
    
    Thanks again for all your advice.  I just hope it works.
    
    I'll let you know what happens.
    
    Kathy
    

    Kathy,
    
    You might try more than one squirt bottle. We have two floors and 
    running up and down to get it was for the birds.  We discovered that
    there were two places where the cats seemed to get into the most
    trouble: at the back door and at the door in our bedroom.  We keep
    a spray bottle at each location so we can grab it at a moment's notice.
    
    (Of course, when we were teaching them to stay off the table while we
    were eating dinner, we had to arm each of the kids with one!  ;-) )
    
    As far as clipping claws goes, I've used both toe nail clippers and one
    made just for cats.  I recommend the ones made just for cats and other
    small animals.  They work like scissors and are a lot easier to use.
    
    Best of everything--I'm sure you can work the kinks out as long as 
    you're persistant.
    
    Jill

    I agree with Jill, the nail scissors made just for cats are easier
    to use.  But, until you are able to get some of those, go ahead
    and use the nail clippers.  Cats claw things in order to help shed
    the sheaths of their claws.  If you keep his nails trimmed, his
    need to claw might be reduced somewhat.
    
    We also have more than one spray bottle.  In fact, we now have one
    for every room.  I have young kittens around and they need constant
    supervision or they develop bad habits.
    
    Good luck to you, I hope you find an equitable solution to your
    problem.
    
    Jo

    If you decide to let the cats out as a solution to your problem
    (I don't think its a good idea) just remember that in bad weather
    and during the winter the cats will spend alot more time indoors
    and you will still have this problem to deal with.
      Good luck.  I vote for the squirt bottle and some ARUBACATS
    cat trees!  (603-382-8418)
      Nancy DC
    

    Don't feel bad closing him in one room.  He probably sleeps most
    of the time when your gone anyways.  It will be very difficult to
    train him otherwise.  What he will probably learn is that he can't
    do those things when your home, but can when your not.  
    
    I think you should confine him during the day, and work on training
    when your home.  It will probably work very fast if your consistent,
    and then once he's trained you can then let him have the run of
    the house when your gone.  
    
    It may actually be safer for the kitten to be confined when your
    gone, that way you know he can't get hurt.  Whenever I leave one
    lose in the house I always worry about them.  I'm afraid their going
    to chew wires or knock something over and have it fall on them or
    something stupid like that.
    
    good luck
    cin
    

>    I think you should confine him during the day, and work on training
>    when your home.  It will probably work very fast if your consistent,
>    and then once he's trained you can then let him have the run of
>    the house when your gone.  
    
IF you find that ONE THING that Tigger really likes to scratch, maybe...
however, if you plan on restricting you cat to a "non-vulnerable" area
with scratching post available when you are gone, you'll probably have
better luck.  Cats don't just scratch to "trim" or polish their nails,
they also are rubbing their scent on things that smell like "Mom" or
"Dad" to declare their residency.  If you get a cat with a strong need
to "mark" his/her area, you will have a cat who learns not to do
it while you're looking...but when you're not looking and the furniture
is accessable, he/she will scratch.  The scent glands are in the front
paws.  You cannot smell anything, but the cat can.  In my experience,
a cat's need to perform this behavior differs depending on the individual
cat....I have a cat who, although declawed to protect the other
cats, vigorously attacks the furniture many times a day.  I also have
a cat who has never seemed to care one way or the other. 

    I do not believe that scratching leaves any scent.  Therefore, I
    don't believe scratching is for marking.  There are scent glands
    on the head in front of the ears and at the base of the tail.  That's
    why cats will rub their heads on things.  
      You CAN train cats to only scratch what its ok for them to scratch
    and not just when you are around.  If you doubt that, come over
    and check out my furniture.
      I've discussed how I "Shape" or "redirect" scratching behavior
    in other notes in this file.  If you want me to describe it again
    send mail.  I'll be happy to.
      Nancy DC
    

    Nancy, I hate to tell you, but it is true, scratching is a way of
    scent marking for cats, just like it is a way of scent marking for
    larger felines (lions, tigers, etc. [and bears!, oh, my!]).  This
    is one of the reasons why declawed cats will continue to go through
    the motions of scratching, even tho they have no claws.
    
    Jo

    Does he get enough attention from both of you? Sometimes this is
    the problem and he will do bad things instead of good to get your
    attention.  Maybe he senses that your husband doesn't like cats
    and that's how he deals with that??? There could be many reasons
    but the suggestion about the scratching post, etc. is best I think.
    My cat stays indoors because of the traffic and he enjoys sitting
    in the windows looking at the birds, etc.  He also has my dog to
    play with so he doesn't really get bored.  He has, however, learned
    to open my refrigerator door - 2 cases of orange crush in front
    takes care of that though!  Good luck with him!
    

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    I don't think it's attention he wants.  I think it's food!  :-)
    
    He doesn't like to be held to much.  He just likes to be able to
    sit on my lap.  Which he gets to do alot, since I'm a couch potato.
    
    I really need to find another scratching box.  He really tore the
    other one apart.  I may get one for each room he likes to scratch
    furniture in.
    
    I bought a run for him.  I had him outside this weekend.  He kept
    trying to walk further than the leash would let him so he'd just
    plop himself down and roll trying to get the harness off.  I got
    him to play with a stick to keep his mind off the harness.  He was
    so cute.  He'd run and jump for the stick and while he was doing it
    he'd meow.  It so funny!  Then he saw a bird fly onto the tree branch
    over his head.  He liked that.  He just sat there and watched with
    his ears perked.  
    
    I tried bringing Snuggles out.  I ran into a problem here.  The
    neighborhood cat came over.  Boy would Snuggles make a good attack
    cat!  When I saw the cat coming over, I unhooked Snuggles from
    the run, but still had the leash on him.  As soon as the cat got
    close enough Snuggles tried to make a mad dash at him.  It was probably
    stupid of me, but I picked up Snuggles and tried to get him into
    the house.  I made it about half way and Snuggles really started
    squirming.  He managed to squirm out of the harness.  I had to grab
    him by the scruff of the neck to get him into the house.  I got
    a few scratches, but nothing serious.  
    
    Now I'm afraid to let them out even on the run.  How can keep them
    from getting into fights without me getting clawed up? 
    
    On a slightly different subject, there is neighborhood cat that
    came around this weekend.  He's on orange tabby almost identical
    to Tigger.  When I went out to say hello, I pet him.  The cat has
    semi-long hair and when I pet him he had these huge lumps on his
    back.  I believe it was matted fur.  The poor thing!  I wanted to
    go inside and get scissors to cut them off.  He had a collar on,
    so I know someone owns him.  I just wish there was something I could
    do.  Do you think the owners would mind if I had them cut off? 
    If I did that, I'd try to feed him and get him to come back so I
    could keep him brushed.  I don't want to take him away from his
    owners, I would just like to see the cat groomed.  
    
    What you think?
    
    Kathy
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    I don't know what happened to the last message.  At least it worked.
    
    Maybe the moderators can fix it.

    Re: 19
    
    Is there an id tag on the collar?  Maybe he is lost....  I have
    no qualms about supplying love/food/grooming to neighborhood
    cats that don't get enough at home.  If he is being fed elsewhere
    and you cuddle and groom him, he'll probably keep visiting you
    without your feeding him.
    

    re: .17
      Hey, you learn something new every day! Thanks Jo.