Conference misery::feline_v1

    Congratulations on the new addition.   
    
    
    How old is he?
    
    
    

    Donna - what kind of kitten food did you buy?  I have had really
    good luck with Friskies Kitten Food in the milk carton and Purina
    Kitten Chow Dairy Formula, also sold in milk cartons.  I mix them
    together in one bowl and also feed kitten IAMS in another.
    
    Sometimes kittens don't eat very well in new surroundings so don't
    worry if he picks at his food for the first few days or so.
    
    Also, Science Diet Feline Growth is a good canned food for kittens.
    
    
    /Roberta
    

    Hi Donna,
    
    Like Roberta, I've also had really good luck ith the Friskies and
    Kitten Chow dairy foods.  Julie comes flying when she hears the box. 
    They are the only foods she prefers to Science Diet Light formula.
    
    Now, if I could only keep Honey out of the kitten's bowl....
    
    Welcome to the new baby!
    
    Mary
    

    
    
    When they get hungry enough..  they'll eat!!
    
    Of course, I'd try the suggestions placed before..
    
    F.

    
    The food is the kind in the milk carton.  I forgot what kind,
    its the one with the kitten on it and the baby bottle.  He
    loves cat food and had a little bit of tuna which he also
    enjoyed.  He did fine on the food he ate(he was happy and full
    and no potty problems.)
    
    
    He is 7 weeks old and I feel guity being at work with him home.
    My boyfriend is with him but, a baby needs its mother.  I don't
    suppose I could stay home for a few months though.
    
    
    Oh yes, he needs something to chew on besides me.  I bought
    a babys theething ring but he's not interested.
    
    
          Donna
    

    Re: something to chew on
    
    How about one of those fabled catnip grey mice (minus and
    dodads that he might chew off)?
    

It sounds like your Noname looks just like my Tsunami.  
Becky

    Dundee liked my leather belts when he was teething!  

    
    
    
    I think his name is going to be Niki.  It can be Nicholas when
    he gets older (or when he's naughty-of course that will be never),
    and Nick for short.
    
    
    Leather belts are a good idea, I'll see if I have an old one.
    
    We left Niki and Tasha Marie alone in the house for about an hour
    last night and they were both in one piece when we got home.
    
                                    Donna
    

    re: leather belts
    
    My guys like to chew leather also.  When I went to the Deerfield
    Fair last September, I picked up a strip of undyed, plain leather
    with no buckle, to hang on the wall for them. They love it.
    
    E.T.

    If you have a tandy leather anywhere near you they'd be a good
    source of scrap leather. If you can't find any leather or a
    store let me know.  My sister manages the store in Waltham.
    I'll swing by and find some undied leather scraps for you.
      Nancy DC
    

    Good choice of name!  I have a Nikki too, and his name fits him
    to a T.  He's Nikki when he's good, Nicholas when he's bad, Nik-Nik
    when mom's being silly, and Big Nik when my fiance talks to him.
    
    Congrats on your new arrival.
    
    
    /Roberta
    

    Agree - good choice.
    
    My Nikolas is Nikki, Nikki, Nikki when he is sweet.
    
    and,
    
    NIK  O  LAS  or NikkiNikkiNikki NO  when he is being creepy.
    
    He is sweet almost ALL the time!!
    
    E.T.

    very good choice.
    
    My Nikolas is Niky or Niky-less when he is good.
    
    On the rare occasion that he isn't, he is Nikolas S. Pussycat, Esq.
    
    Deb

	I always thought that 'Nicholas Ridiculous' would be a great name
	for a silly cat :^}

    
    
    
    Even though I went through kittenhood about 6 years ago with Tasha
    Marie I can't seem to remember anything.  I have a few more
    questions.  When is he supposed to go to the vets for his 
    first kitten shots, which ones is he going to get, any estimates
    on what this will cost?  Eight weeks seems awfully young to be
    getting shots.
    
    
    Also I'm guessing about 3 to 4 months old for getting fixed?  Is this
    about right?                  
    
    
    For some reason 11:30 pm seems to be playtime.  I really don't think
    there is anything I can do about this.  I've been trying to get
    him more interested in playing with toys instead of us (he bites
    too hard!)but he prefers live action.
    
    He's doing great!!,  Thanks to everyone for all your replys.
    
                                      Donna
    
    

    Actually, kittens should have their first shot at about 6-7 weeks,
    the 2nd shot at about 9 weeks, and a third at about 3 months.  It's
    one shot that covers several things.  
    
    Your vet will probably charge you for an office visit since she
    will be checking out kitty, and you should decide if you want to
    have him tested for leukemia.  The Leukemia test alone can be $12
    to $25, depending on your vet.  I would figure about $25-$30 without
    the leukemia test.  BTW, I highly recommend leukemia testing.
    
    cin
    

    Donna -
    
    re: neutering.  While most vets seem to agree on 6 months for
    spaying unless the cat goes into heat earlier, I have heard differing
    opinions on the optimum time to neuter a male.  My vet had me
    wait until Dundee was 9 months old.  The reason for this is that
    he wanted to be sure that Dundee's "apparatus" had reached its adult
    size.  Males seem to have more trouble passing kidney stones etc
    and if they are neutered young the cat will have a smaller urethra.
    (The tube from the bladder to the outside)
      Of course, Dundee was a little doll.  We had no trouble at all
    with him spraying and he was one of the most laid back kittens I've
    ever seen.  He seems to be more spirited now at almost 1 yr old
    then he was at 9 months.
      If your cat starts spraying or goes out (I hope not) then he
    should probably be done closer to 7 months or whenever the unde-
    sireable behavior begins since that will mean he's reached sexual
    maturity.  
    
      re: 11:30 pm playtime.  Cats are nocturnal by nature.  One thing
    you can do is run him ragged before bedtime.  Get a kitty tease
    or just a piece of string and play with him for 1/2 hr before 
    bedtime.  Hopefully you'll tire him out and he'll be more interested
    in sleeping.  Isis used to get up around 3am to attack our toes!
    
    re: biting - Isis used to bite and scratch too hard when playing.
    I always attributed this to being removed from her litter too early
    and not learning that she shouldn't bite so hard.  Jack tried to
    teach her what "ow" and "ouch" meant.  When she'd get too rambunctios
    (sp?) he'd say ouch a couple of times and then refuse to continue
    playing with her.  What really got her out of that was getting Dundee.
    She seemed to learn by playing with him to take it easy.
    
      hope this helps
        Nancy DC
    
    p.s. What's his name?  

    Instead of the 3-in-one kitten shots, my vet uses a 4-in-one shot
    which is supposed to be a bit more effective (includes vaccination
    against pneumonitis? (chlamydia).  If I remember right, the breeder
    gave Kelsey and Shelby their kitten shots at 8 and 12 weeks (I'd
    have to look at their papers to get the exact dates).
    
    Kelsey and Shelby were neutered just recently at 7 1/2 months. 
    My vet also recommended waiting until 9 months, but unfortunately,
    they (the kittens) couldn't wait that long!
    
    
    /Roberta
     

    Roberta is right, four in one vaccinates for pneumonitis as well
    as Calici virus, Panleukopenia, and Rhino.  
    
    As a general rule, I wait until the kittens are getting the main
    part of their nutrition from solid food, rather than mom, before
    I vaccinate them.  Mom's milk carries antibodies, and they can work
    against the vaccine.  The usual schedule is 6, 9, and 12 weeks,
    but individual breeders will sometimes vary from that depending
    on how the kittens are developing.
    
    Your kitten should be given a vaccine now, and then at least one
    more vaccine, three weeks later.  Your vet will probably recommend
    a schedule similar to that.
    
    As for when to neuter, different vets have different thought on
    that, so go for whatever he/she thinks.  3 to 4 months is a little
    early unless your kitten is particularly precocious, or well developed!
    ;^)
    
    JO

    re:20
    
    Jo, how do you feel about the length of protection received
    from the 4-way versus the 3-way?  My vet mentioned that the
    protection for pneumonitis is only about 4-6 months, and
    that's why he doesn't use the 4-way (that's the opinion of
    one of my Vets - I have 2 that I use - one uses the 3-way
    and the other uses the 4-way).  I respect both very much.
    
    Just wondering what your thoughts were - also, if you give
    the 4-way too early (before, 9 or 10 weeks, is it?) it
    can cause problems???  yes  no  ??
    
    E.T.

    Okay, I am going to try this again.  I hate it when I type in a
    rather lengthy reply, only to lose it somewhere in the black whole
    before I can get it entered.
    
    My opthamologist also says that the effectiveness of the pneumonitis
    vaccine only lasts about 4 to 6 months.  That is okay with me since
    I vaccinate my breeding cats every six months anyway.  The usefulness
    of the vaccine (to me) lies in the fact that if the cat ever does
    get chlamydia, the symptoms are significantly less severe and more
    responsive to medication than if the cat was not vaccinated.
    
    Since Kalliste had chlamydia when I got him, I feel it is important
    to give my kittens an extra measure of protection against it.  I
    give the 3-way for the first vaccine, then the 4-way for the second
    two vaccines.  The new owners have the option to continue the 4-way
    vaccines when they take the cat in for boosters, or switch to 3-way,
    I leave that up to them.  I have been assured that the 4-way cannot
    cause the cat to get chlamydia, this information coming to me both
    from the opthamologist and from the manufacturer (I was convinced
    that Kalliste got his from the vaccine, at first).
    
    I have another concern about my cats getting chlamydia that is in
    addition to concern over the cat being ill.  I breed Birmans, which
    are cats with pointed markings.  The usual treatment for chlamydia
    is to medicate the eyes with Terramycin ointment three times a day
    for three weeks.  Terramycin bleeds point color off the face, leaving
    circles of white fur around the eyes.  This can take months to grow
    out.  If one of my cats gets chlamydia, and then gets the "goggles"
    I cannot show him/her for several months, even after they are well,
    so I do everything I can to prevent them from catching it.
    
    Jo 
    

    Realy, it is a pain to have to retype a long one.
    
    Interesting - about the 4 to 6 month protection.  I was taking
    my show kids in every six months for shots - one vet thought
    it wasn't necessary - the other thought it would be a good
    idea.  sigh   I compromise and stretch the six months to
    about 7.5 or 8.5 - it's sooner than once a year but a little
    longer than 6 months - it makes me feel that maybe they
    (actually, this season only Katenka) she has had a little
    more protection.  Something is working because she is so
    wonderfully healthy - thank God!!!! (As I say every time she finals,
    God is Good !   
    
    Thanks -
    
    E.T.

    
    
    	We had Duke's first Kitty shot done at about 8 weeks...
    	
    	It was the funniest thing too cuz the vet pinched the skin
    	behind his neck and stuck the needle in (Dukiekitty didn't
    	even twitch!) and it went right out the other side.  The
    	vet didn't realize it and the "stuff" went all ove the
    	examining table!  It was quite hysterical...so he had to
    	start over again and Duke was such a good little tyke
    	about it too...
    
    	JJ
    

    RE: .22, .23

    If you loose your connection while you are editing or posting
    something, you can either:

    1. reopen the file, and if you get a connection, immediately do a REPLY/LAST

    or

    2. get to the editor command prompt and do a WRITE FOO.TXT. Then when you
       finally get into the conference and call up the note that you want
       to reply to, just do a REPLY FOO.TXT


    For more info, you can type HELP


    Deb

    re:25
    
    Tanx, Deb.
    
    When it happens, ya get so P&^)ed off, ya don't think of the
    right thing to do!!
    
    E.T.
    

    Deb, thanks for the info. I did try reply/last but it didn't work.
    
    I know that I should create a file when entering a lengthy note,
    but I hardly ever do that.
    
    
    E.T., most of my breeding cats are also my show cats.  I vaccinate
    every six months so that when the cats are bred, they have their
    highest level of immunity to pass on to their kittens.  I feel that 
    it is a good idea to have your show cats boosted more frequently 
    since they can be exposed to different things at shows.
                              
    I am like you about vets too.  I have one that I use for health
    certificates, and felv testing, and then one that I use if anything
    serious ever happens.  It is good having two vets since you can
    bounce ideas off of them both and see what their reactions are.
    
    Jo

    Yes, I use one for the routine stuff - the other is a GREAT, and
    I mean WONDERFUL diagnostician - he is really wonderful - they
    both are good - I'm very lucky to have access to both these
    bright folk!  I think that a bunch of people here in the file
    may be using Dr. Brody in Hudson, New Hampshire - I think he
    is really the best thing since sliced bread and tea bags,
    when it comes to off-the-wall diseases.  He doesn't stop
    until he comes up with the answer and the CURE or treatment!!
    My other vet is as good, but I can't always get in touch with
    him fast enough.  Brody will be there any time day or night
    whenever you call or however often you call.  He is dependable
    and realiable always.
    
    Your program of vaccinating before breeding sounds wise - helps
    the immunity of the kits.  Boy, lots of stuff to learn & remember!!
    
    E.T.

    Re: .24
    
    I did the same thing to Monroe the first time I gave a vaccination.
    Monroe was not the least bit concerned.  He let me try it again
    and again until I got it right.  He probably will never need another
    vaccination again!  :^)  He has been practiced on quite a bit because
    he is so good about it.
    
    Ironically, the only time that I ever hurt myself while giving a
    vaccination was when I gave Monroe his leukemia booster last February.
    I have inserted the needle under his skin and he turned his head.
    Unbeknownst to me, the needle came out the other side and went into
    my finger (which was holding the skin triangle up).  I merrily injected
    the leukemia vaccine into my own finger, not having noticed that
    the needle was in me, and not in him.  I didn't notice what had
    happened until I pulled the needle out and noticed blood all over
    my hand!  Then it HURT!!  I had gone all the way through one finger
    and lodged the needle into another so both fingers where bleeding
    pretty badly.
    
    My niece was home so she helped pull me back together and wrapped
    my hand up for me, laughing hysterically the whole time (she is
    soooo compassionate).  Monroe just watched and couldn't figure out
    why I was so broken up about giving him his routine shots.
    
    Well, the good news is that I don't have to worry about ever catching
    Feline Leukemia.
    
    Jo 
    

    
    
    I called and made an appointment.  He goes on Monday.  I don't
    think he will mind- he loves people and is very sociable.
    
    Tasha is doing better.  She gave him a thorough sniffing without
    hissing.  Although after it was done it she looked at us and said
    "Well, I checked him out and I made my decision, please send him
    back".   I'll let everyone know how the vet goes.
    
    
                          Thanks again,
                           Donna
    

    Since we're talking about vaccinations, I have a question.  Recently
    I've started receiving some new petcare catalogs (one is called
    Pet Care).  They include numerous medications and vaccinations.
    Some even come in pre-loaded syringes.  
      Do these companies sell these things to just anyone or do you
    have to prove you are a vet or vetrinary technician or a licensed
    breeder to purchase?  
      Nancy DC
    

	Wow, all these issues!  Cat care was always handled by my mother, so
	I have a lot to learn.  I don't remember any problems with the cat 
	we had until I was 7; the cat we had after that was more likely to 
	have an unpleasant encounter with a car or wild animal than he was
	to develop an illness.  Kevin has lots of kitty experience (and he
	claims to be good at giving them pills; he's never had one foam), so
	I'm not worried.  I already know where the vet is (about 5 minutes 
	from our house, which is as close as you get for non-residential).

	Re: saving notes when the connection is lost: if REPLY/LASTY doesn't
	work, presumably because the remote system is really gone and can't
	be reconnected to, you can still save your text.  Just open any 
	other conference, and do a REPLY/LAST/NOEXTRACT (so you don't get 
	the text of the nore you're "answering").  You can then do the 
	WRITE FELINE.SAVE (or whatever filename you like), and quit.

	Beverly

    Most vet supply companies make you sign a statement that you are
    a breeder, and that vaccines and syringes will be used on your animals
    only.  As for the medications, alot of medications are available
    over the counter, for example Terramycin.  Other medications are
    sold over the counter for use in fish tanks (you can't take your
    whole aquarium to the vet).  These fish antibiotics are the same
    drugs that are prescribed for cats.  So, you can by the drugs over
    the counter, and they come labeled for use in fish tanks.  This
    I do not recommend for non-breeders, it can be risky, and you really
    have to know what you are doing.  Your vet would probably have a
    coronary if you told him you were buying your own antibiotics.
    
    There are other companies that somehow manage to get ahold of drugs
    that are only supposed to be purchased by licensed vets.  These
    companies do not advertise, and they only sell to people they know,
    and then sometimes to new breeders who are given a good recommendation
    by a regular customer.
    
    For the pet cat owner, your best bet is to stick with your vet.
    Alot of times, the only time a cat sees the vet is when it is due
    for it's annual vaccines.  By taking the cat to the vet, you can
    have the vet check the cat over thoroughly while it is there, and
    make sure it is healthy.
    
    Jo

    Great reply, Jo....
    
    I didn't quite know how to answer that one...I would really discourage
    anyone from adminstering their own medications unless they are very
    knowledgable.  And I mean VERY knowledgable!!!
    
    cin...
    

    I've thought many times of doing the shots myself, but have
    always decided no - it is the ONLY time most of mine see
    the vet (once a year) because they are pretty healthy all
    year, thank God!  I feel a lot better when they are looked
    at by a Vet.  I have one that comes to the house and does
    all of them at once whack - he lives in Concord, New Hampshire.
    It's really worth it rather than to have to crate up 16 unhappy
    campers and drive somewhere with them screaming - if I have
    special concerns with one or two or three, he takes a first
    look, and then we decide whether a follow- up visit is necessary.
    
    I feel that it's always safer to have the vet do the doctoring!
    I'm not a DOCTOR - and at this point, don't have the knowledge
    to handle a serious reaction or emergency.  Vets are qualified
    and equiped for problems - I'm not.
    
    E.T._just_my_opinion.

    Well, Elaine, I've been breeding for 9 years now, and I still bring
    all mine in for all their vaccines, kittens and cats.  My vet will
    come to the house if I have more than 10 shots ... no charge ...
    but will not draw the blood for the leukemia tests unless I bring
    them in.  
    
    Has anyone tried the new Leukemia tests that I've been seeing
    advertised where you use a tear or saliva???  Jo??? 
    
    cin
    

    Some of the breeders I know do them at home themselves, but I've
    never felt comfortable doing that even with my medical background
    (my degree is in Medical Technology - I was a Lab Tech for 7 
    years and in RN training for two years and gave lots of
    injections to humans).  I just don't have any Vet Tech
    training and think it's best to have the Vet do it.

    I haven't tried them myself, Cin, but I don't trust them.  When
    we first found Tilly, my husband's household pet, she was too little
    to draw blood from so the vet did a saliva test.  The saliva test
    came back with a positive result and of course, I panicked.
    
    Well, we ended up drawing blood anyway, so I didn't save any money,
    and Tilly was able to produce enough blood for the test.  The blood 
    test was negative.  Then the vet told me that he gets alot of false 
    positives with the saliva test.  
    
    Now there are alot of companies out here selling the tear and saliva
    tests, but I still don't trust them.  I take all my cats to the
    vet for the blood tests.  I also think that it means more to the
    prospective buyer that the test was performed by a licensed Vet
    and that he stands by the results of the test.  The saliva tests
    that are available around her are performed by the breeder then
    sent off to some unknown lab.  I guess I am just too distrustful
    of who is performing the evaluation.
    
    I give vaccines myself with the complete knowledge of my vet.  She
    is very helpful about teaching me the proper techniques, and making
    sure that I am buying good quality vaccines from reputable companies.
    She also taught me to give fluids to Livee when she was very ill,
    and provided me with Lactated Ringers, and needles and syringes
    best suited for injecting fluids.  I don't consider myself a vet,
    or vet tech for that matter, and do not do anything without her
    full knowledge.  I take the cats to her if they are ill, she diagnosis
    the problem and prescribes medication, if I have the medication
    at home already then I use it.  Otherwise, she either tells me what
    to get, or gives it to me.  She has also given me advice on what
    to have in the house in case of emergencies, like in the case of
    Livee.
    
    Jo

    Cin - I've used those saliva/tear felv tests on my household pets
    but have heard conflicting feedback about them.  My vet isn't fully
    convinced that they are as accurate as a blood test and I only used
    them for interim results.
    
    I ordered them through Cat Fancy magazine.  A veterinarian in Michigan
    makes them readily available to the public.  They send a complete
    kit with directions on how to administer and you send back the test
    for evaluation.  A few weeks later, I received two certificates
    in the mail stating that both Chauncey and Nikki were negative.
    I had a blood test done right after that which also came back negative
    so they just might work.
    
    
    /Roberta
    

    Thanks for all the feedback about meds etc.  I remember my vet
    being rather annoyed with the do it yourself FLV tests because he
    said, folks don't know what they're doing and you end up with
    inaccurate results.
      I personally am just as happy taking my furfaces to the vet.
    The older three see him twice a year - Nov. for the rabies and
    upper respiratory etc shots and April for their FLV boosters.  I
    am happier with them going in twice a year especially now that 
    Kitty Bumps is coming up on 12.  
      I was just amazed to see what would normally be prescription
    meds for humans, and syringes, for sale, apparently, to just
    anyone.  I mean, there's all this noise about selling syringes
    over the counter so the IV drug users won't spread aids around
    and it looks like you could probably get them through a pet care
    magazine!  I was quite surprized.
      I'm glad that this note gave you folks a good chance to provide
    some good advice to cat owners about bringing their cats to the
    vet rather than treating them themselves.
      Nancy DC
    

    From what I've read and after a discussion with my vet, my
    understanding is that these tests will sometimes give false positives,
    but that the chance of a false negative is almost nil.  
    
    I've been waivering on these tests a bit, and I may start using
    them for my own use, at home with my cats as an "inbetween" test
    during the year.  All my cats are done once yearly, all at the same
    time.  I like to do the show cats every 4-6 months, and the breeders
    shortly before their bred, but may begin using the saliva tests
    for these.
    
    cin
    

    
    
    All went well at the vets. Now we have a new problem. I need some
    way to disipline him when he insists on attacking people.  He is
    only playing but it hurts.  He has plenty of toys which he loves
    but that does not stop him from playing bite and scratch me and
    anyone else who happens to come in the house.  Obviously I don't
    want to hurt him.  I know squirt guns can be used but I don't
    think I could grab one with his four legs and mouth wrapped
    around my hand.  Other than this problem, he is a very good
    boy.  
    
                                         thanks
    
                                          Donna
    

    One thing that we do with kittens is not to ever play with them
    with our hands.  I am talking about rough-house type playing. If
    the kitten does start biting and kicking at us with it's claws and
    teeth, we withdraw our hand slowly and say "NO BITING!" very firmly.
    Your kitten might be at the teething age too, which would make him
    want to bite even more.  Make sure to give him lots of toys to play
    with.  One toy that works for us is a long tube-like sock toy that
    is filled with catnip and fiberfill.  It is long enough to stretch
    from kitten mouth to kitten back claws, and makes the perfect rough-
    house toy.
    
    Jo

    I'd also suggest trimming his claws.