Conference misery::feline_v1

    Just talked to my daughter (again).  No baby yet that she can see.
    
    Also, just received mail from a non-Feline Noter.  She is looking
    for two females.  Just maybe I can talk her into Momma cat and 1
    baby (if she EVER haves them).
    
    Bye again,
    
    Sandi
    
    

    Sandi, I will offer any help and advice that I can from here.  Send
    mail if you need to.
    
    YOSMTE::CORDESBRO_JO
    
    If momma is hissing and trying to scratch, she may be in first stage
    labor now.  She may want to do this all on her own.
    
    Jo

    
    
    
    Whats the news on the kittens?
    
    
                           Donna
    

 >  Also, just received mail from a non-Feline Noter.  She is looking
 >  for two females.  Just maybe I can talk her into Momma cat and 1
 >  baby (if she EVER haves them).
  
	Make that a new FELINE Noter!  We'd really prefer 2 female 
	littermates; there's another noter that I've talked to about a
	pair of twins she has; we'll see how things go for everyone.

	I've lived in no-pets apartments since I got out of school; I'm
	*very* excited about getting kittens to play with!

	Beverly

    I would have posted this first thing this morning but I was busy
    training someone.
    
    Baby is a Momma!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
    
    She had 4 kittens yesterday while my daughter was busy at the new
    apartment.  The first was still-born but the other 3 are just fine.
    
    Momma is fine too.
    
    When my daughter and her husband came home Baby wouldn't let them
    near the new kittens so they left her alone.  This morning she was
    playing the "Proud Parent" and showed them her kittens.
    
    	Kitten #1 is mostly glossy black with white on her/his tummy
    
    	Kitten #2 is black with white spots
    
    	Kitten #3 is shiny grey with a white tummy.
    
    I forgot to ask if they are long or short-coated.  Momma-cat is
    short coated, mostly white with a black tail, black hood, and a
    black patch on her back.
    
    Jo, you hit it on the button.  She was happy to be in but wanted
    to have her kittens in privacy.
    
    Beverly,  as soon as I find out which are the females, I'll let
    you know.  I understand about wanting the kittens versus the momma.
    
    Will keep everyone informed on the babies as they grow.
    
    Sandi (a great-grandma??)
    
    

    Sandy,  glad to hear that everything is okay.  Sounds like Momma
    knows what she is doing.  It is so great when they insist on taking
    care of everything themselves! :^)
    
    Since Momma is a shorthair, greatest chances are for shorthair babies.
    Longhair is recessive to shorthair, so if Momma carries a recessive
    LH gene, the only ways she could have any longhair kittens is to
    1) mate with a longhair (would have to have two LH genes to be a
    longhair.  This breeding may give you two longhair kittens)  or 
    2) mate with a shorthair who also carries longhair recessively (this 
    breeding may give you one longhair kitten).
    
    Genetics simplified...
    
    Jo
    

    
    
    			HELPPPPPPPPPPPP !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
    
    
    One of the babies seems to be having a problem !!!!!!!!!!
    
    This is third party so I will relay what my daughter told me this
    morning.
    
    Babies were fine last night and were eating.
    
    This morning one of them seems to be having a little problem.  It
    has labored breathing and then breathes normally and then has labored
    breathing again.  The other two seem ok.
    
    What does this mean?????
    
    
    Sandi
    
    

    
    
          I'm not sure but sure that others will have a much better
    idea.  Could this be a sign of an upper respiratory starting up?
    
    
                                               

    
    We had this problem with a litter we had last year.. Our cat had
    three kittens, 2 black and white ones and a ginger tom.  As the days
    went by we noticed the ginger one had laboured breathing.. as even
    more days passed we noticed the black ones were growing and the
    little ginger one was not.  His eyes opened and he even managed
    to get about later on but he remained VERY tiny.  When he was 5
    weeks old I took him to the vet as the woman who had put dibbs on
    him was concerned and so was I.  He was diagnosed with a hole in
    his heart.  The vet gave him some antibiotics to combat the infection
    this condition had left him open to and we took him home with fingers
    crossed.  His breathing got a little better and his spirits started
    to lift but he still remained a tiny kitten with two very busy fat
    brothers.  His mother gave him lots of attention and did not neglect
    him but his days were looking more and more numbered.  Another trip
    to the vet a week or so later and the vet convinced us the kindest
    thing would be to put him to sleep.  He said he would never grow
    normally and his breathing would always be laboured and difficult.
    He said also he would always be very prone to serious infections.
    
    We were very sad to leave him there.  The lady who had picked him
    and one of his litter mates was totally distraught.. she had picked
    out his name and already started to love him as her own.
    
    Don't mean to worry you, but that is my experience of a kitten with
    laboured breathing.. the sooner you can get him/her to a vet the
    better.
    
    gailann

    I would also suggest getting him to the vet, but I think that you
    should try not to worry too much.  Tiny kittens almost always do
    things that make you think that they are on death's doorstep.
    
    I remember rushing a whole litter into the vet for labored breathing,
    only to have the vet tell me, in the kindest way, that they had
    just learned how to hiss, and they were hissing whenever they smelled
    my presence near there box!!!  Boy, did I leave with a red face.
    
    By labored breathing, try to get your daughter to be more specific.
    Is he taking shallow quick breaths with his mouth open?  Is there
    any nasal discharge?  Are the eyes puffy and swollen under the sealed
    eyelids?  Is the kitten still nursing?  How does the momma react
    to the kitten?  Does she push it away from the nest, or does she
    act like nothing is wrong?
    
    
    Jo

    Gailynne,
    
    Thank you for responding so promptly.  The story was very sad but
    also very informative.  If this is indeed the case, I also will
    do what is best for the little one.  It wouldn't be fair to make
    him/her suffer.  I have an appointment this evening with my vet
    for Thunder but could take the little one in instead and have
    Thunder's check-up on another day.
    
    Jo,
    
    Also, thank you for responding so quickly.  I rather knew you would.
    My daughter didn't make it home for lunch so I have no more info
    to give you.  She will be calling me when she gets home.  I'm hoping
    the kitten will still be alive.  I hate feeling helpless.  Will
    post when I have more info.
    
    "TO THE VET.  TO THE VET.  TO THE VET, VET, VET."
    
    Sandi (I seem to be singing that phrase quite often lately)
    
    

    Sandi, just bring them both in - save yourself the two trips.
    

    
    
    I think its fairly normal for kittens a few days old to hiss and
    growl and people.. and this *could* be mistaken for breathing problems,
    as mentioned earlier in this note..  I usually pop my head in to
    see what the kitties look like and if they smell me its hiss hiss
    hiss if they aren't feeding..  they aren't born used to the smell
    of people..
    
    Good luck though!!
    
    F.

    Sandi,
         Kittens that young cannot regulate their body temperature on
    their own.  When we had the stray with kittens, our vet told us
    to bring the entire litter to the vet even if only one kitten needed
    to be looked at.  There probably are other ways of keeping them
    warm enough.  There seem to be a lot of people in this file who
    know alot more about this that I do.
    
    				Mary

    Mary is right, if one goes, I usually take momma and the whole litter.
    It is much less stressful for momma too.  Otherwise, she will be
    going nuts at home, trying to figure out where Jr. is.  Amazing
    how they can count so well!
    
    Jo

    Just talked to my daughter (actually 1/2 hour ago) and kitten is
    alive and well.  She/he was eating and moving around.  Eyes are
    not puffy and nose isn't running.  Possibly Momma-cat stepped on
    the baby when she jumped into the box.
    
    So many things to think about.  As far as keeping babies warm, they
    are in the warmest room in the house with no drafts.  Hissing? 
    I didn't know that 2 day old kittens could hiss.
    
    So much to learn (again).  It has been a hundred years since Amber
    gave birth to Smokey #6 (long story behind the six Smokies).  
    
    Sandi.
    
    

    Sounds like all is well.  If she is still concerned with the breathing,
    have her rub the kitten's back and tummy to help stimulate the
    circulation and to possibly help loosen any birth fluids that could
    still be hanging around the lungs.  
    
    Kittens can hiss at a very young age.  You would be suprised.  Problem
    is, who can take them seriously when they do it?
    
    Jo

re: .18

>    So many things to think about.  As far as keeping babies warm, they
>    are in the warmest room in the house with no drafts.

The temperature in the nesting box ought to be between 85 and 90�F for the 
first few days, gradually decreasing to normal room temperature by the end 
of a month.  By this time, a kitten's body is capable of regulating its own 
temperature.

This isn't too hard to do.  We use a heating pad made especially for cats 
(*not* a human one; the cat one is cooler than the lowest setting on human 
ones); put it under the bedding of *half* the nest box, and cover the nest 
box with something (like a towel).  We monitor the temperature with a 
thermometer standing up in a corner of the box.

Ray

    Ray,
    
    Where did you get the cat-not-human heating pad?  I've always had
    to put a double towel over a human-type heating pad (set on the
    lowest setting) before placing the birthing box on it (yup, half
    on, half off).  I wish they had a REAL thermostat, e.g., "100 degrees"
    rather than "medium" etc.  I checked into incubator costs, figuring
    it could do double duty for a sick animal as well as new-borns,
    but a good one seems to cost $500-1,000.  Not high on the list these
    days.  (Spent the $1,000 instead on heart surgery for a little fuzzy guy
    who is now just fine!)          
    
    	Pennie

    Pennie,
    
    A cat club that I know of pooled their money and bought an incubator.
    The members take turns using it, but use it mostly for emergencies
    (orphaned kittens, ill cats, etc).  So far, they haven't had more
    than one member need it at the same time.  I thought it was a great
    idea.  I too looked into buying one, but found the cost prohibitive.
    That was when I was hand raising Live To Tell.  The vet told me
    to keep her in a temperature of at least 98 degrees (I think that
    was it, it has been a long time).
    
    What I did was to put a heating pad on high, pile two layers of
    towels over it, put another two layers of towels inside a carrier
    (large size), and put half the carrier on the heating pad.  I then
    draped a towel over the top and sides of the carrier.  By some stroke
    of good luck, the thermometer registered the exact right temperature!
                  
    Jo

re: .21

I couldn't swear to it, but I think we got them from Martha (Haddeleigh 
House).

They're about 15" by 18", vinyl, removable/washable fabric cover, no 
thermostat.  The cats *love* to camp out on them!

If other folks try to do what you did using a human heating pad, they 
should especially note that you put the pad *under* (not *in*) the nesting 
box, so it wouldn't be accessable.  Momma and kittens have a way of
re-arranging the materials inside the box, and direct contact with a
human-type heating pad could burn a newborn. 

Ray

    KITTEN #1  alias Black Velvet is a male
    
    KITTEN #2  alias Patches is a male
    
    KITTEN #3  alias Little Grey is a female.
    
    Kitten #2 & #3 have homes.  Kitten #1 is still looking for a
    mommy/daddy.
    
    Momma cat is still in need of a home.  Landlady got a kitten
    instead.
    
    
    
    Jo,
    
    I checked as you said and wasn't completely sure but figured that
    Little Grey was a female and the other two were males.  The vet
    has now confirmed it.
    
    Black Velvet and Patches were taken to vet today.  Patches had an
    infection in eye and Black Velvet had the sniffles.  All kittens
    and Momma have been put on antibiotics and the two little blacks
    have been test for felv.
    
    
    Will try to keep everyone informed.
    
    Sandi  (alias Grandmama
    
    

    Sandi,  glad I could help, and it sounds like you had it all figured
    out without the vets help.
    
    Jo

    Just so everybody knows, I am Little Grey's auntie.  Little Grey
    will be going to my sister as a wedding gift (see note "Kitty Showers"
    for more details).
    
    Little Grey was also the first to open her eyes - what a good little
    girl she is.
    
    	-Auntie Nancy and Cousins Oscar Portia Elmo and Mouth
    
    
    BTW - Li'l Grey is looking for a stepsister or stepbrother - must
    also be solid grey with white or a red tabby - must also be a newborn.
    Anyone with kittens meeting the spec, please call me.

    HI I/M PATCHES NEW MOM. MY NAME IS COLLEEN
    It's been a long time since I have had a kitten.  I will not get
    Patches for a few more weeks and I feel like an expectant mom.
    My husband who made a face when I told him I was going to get Patches
    has already taken him over.  I just might have to get another kitteen
    for me........
    

    re .27
    
    Positive as in already well-loved, not leukemia.  Just clarifying
    for everyone before the replies starting flying in.
    
    Sandi (Great-grandmom)
    
    

    Well,  this is the latest (and greatest) update on the kittens.
    
    Little Grey is now known as Senja and is going to Nancy Hannula's
    sister as a wedding gift.  She already has a playmate waiting for
    her.
    
    Patches will remain Patches and is going to live with Coleen Patenauche
    a co-worker of mine.
    
    Black Velvet is now known as Macbeth as is going to live with Cindy
    Faisy, who works in the same building as me.
    
    How nice that I will be able to get updates on at least 2 of the 
    kittens.
    
    Now if I could find a home for MamaCat.
    
    Sandi (mom to Lightning, DejaVu & Thunder)
    
    

    Mama Cat has a wonderful home with my co-worker Coleen (who also took
    Patches).  I think that is fantastic...  Coleen had read how one kitten
    can be lonely so I mentioned that Mama Cat was still available and that
    she wouldn't have to worry about "cat fights".  I guess I was
    persuasive enough (or Coleen is a true cat-lover) but she took MamaCat
    the next day.
    
    Yeah.......................
    
    Sandi 
    
    

    That is wonderful!!  Good work too!!
    
    Jo

    Gee Sandy, maybe I should hire you to do PR for Tymothee!
     :-DDD
    
     Nancy DC
    
    p.s. glad to hear the good news