Conference misery::feline_v1

    I have heard, here, that two different blood types have been detected
    in cats and in some situations nursing kittens can die because the
    mother's milk contains antibodies to the kitten's blood.  I would
    suggest you talk to the vet immediately about this possibility!
      Good luck
        Nancy DC
    

      I agree on the vet...and if your vet doesn't seem to know what's
    happening, I suggest a second opinion immediately.
      From the description, it seems that there's something wrong with the
    mother's milk...it may be poisoning the kittens. 
      You may have to switch from the mother's milk to KMR or some other
    kitten milk formula..
    
    JMcD

    Somewhere else in this notesfile there was a similar case.  I don't
    remember where.  I thinks it was a respiratory ailment.  Maybe someone
    else recalls who had the kittens.
    
    				Mary

    I've heard of a condition with kittens where it is called "failure
    to Thrive".   It is kind of similar to SIDS with children.  The
    kittens just seem to deteriorate and die.  Maybe a breeder may be
    able to shed some light on this.
    
    

    I opt for taking to Vet along with the other replys.  It could be
    what they are saying (Milk Poisoning) or something else.
    
    It's so sad to lose kittens for no apparent reason.  I lost some
    many years ago and felt SO HELPLESS.  
    
    Sandi (Lightning, DejaVu & Thunder's mom)
    
    
    

    I would take mom and babies to the vet immediately.  You haven't
    mentioned if there were any signs of upper respitory illness.  This
    is a big concern with little ones.  What type of diarrhea?  What
    color was it.  What color is their urine?  How is mom doing?  Can
    you still get milk out of her nipples?
    
    There is a condition known as fading kitten syndrome.  Basically,
    they aren't really sure what causes it.  But, the kittens slowly
    start to weaken and die.
    
    Has the mom been tested for felv.  Sometimes kittens that die have
    felv.
    
    Is there anything else that you can tell me about the mother or
    the kittens?
    
    With little kittens (less than four weeks old) it is very hard to
    diagnose and treat illnesses.  But, the quicker you start treatment,
    the better.
    
    Jo

    Any news?  How are the remaining 2?
    
    Kate

    The two remaining kittens seem to be doing okay.  The vet said there was
    not much he could do but to keep an eye on them constantly.  Their eyes
    are open and the are growing and growing.  I checked the mother for milk
    and she is producing it.  The two that are left are males and are mostly
    black - I wish I could keep one of them, I have always wanted a black cat.
    But nonetheless the vet said maybe there was not enough milk to sustain
    all 5 kittens because binky is such a small mommy - He said maybe it was
    survival of the fittest because the biggest ones - the first born and the
    3rd born are the ones who survived.  They are so cute now with their eyes
    open - I just hope that nothing happens to them.

    
    
    That seems a little unusual to me.. although again this is just
    theory, or personal experiences!
    
    five kittens is from what I know the average amount of kittens for
    a cat.  Even if your cat is small, it should be able to have enough
    milk for them!
    
    I once had a cat who wasn't too big (but not tooo small) who had
    nine kittens.  All survived, and were healthy.
    
    Maybe it was just one of those flukes..
    
    F.

    Just like anything else, these things can happen.  Five kittens
    can be too many for a small, young cat, who is having her first
    litter.  It can also be too much for an older cat, having her fourth
    or fifth litter.  Some queens have very rich milk, and it is quality
    not necessarily quantity that keeps a large litter going.  Other
    queens don't quite have the same richness to their milk.  Pregnant
    queens have a high caloric requirement while they are nursing a
    litter, but most don't want to leave their kittens long enough to
    eat!  I am going through that right now with Lyscentia and her litter
    of four.
    
    I am very sorry that you lost some of the kittens.  Please focus
    on the survivors and you will be able to deal with it.  It is such
    a helpless feeling to watch tiny babies die in your arms.  I have
    been there.  Most of the time there is nothing you can do about
    it.
    
    Jo

	I mentioned this in mail when I first heard (I had put in tentative
	dibs; this is what started me into this conference!), but I might
	as well put it in here.

	I had a friend whose Siamese had 2 sizable litters, from which no
	males survived.  All of the females were healthy.  The prevailing
	theory was that Mercedes (the momcat) had some sex-linked recessive
	genetic disorder which affected only males.  This is more likely in
	purebreds, but it's not unheard of in mixed breed animals either.

	Hopefully the remaining kittens will continue to thrive.

	Beverly

    I was just wondering.  The remaining two kittens are getting along very
    well.  They have their eyes open and stay awake longer.  One thing I
    was wondering about was they are really still not able to walk very
    well.  They are still in the box and sometimes play with each other a
    little bit but they can't get around very well.  They are now 4 weeks
    old and I was wondering how long it would be before they started
    jumping around etc.  They are very cute and have huge paws and very
    sharp nails.  They look up at us now when we talk to them etc.  It is
    amazing to see how fast they grow.  Any comments would be helpful.

    In another week they will be running!!!  It's amazing, once they
    can start to get up on their little legs, how fast they learn to
    use them.

    Week 5 is always the "jump sideways like crabs while your back is
    arched" stage with Birman kittens.  It is the funniest thing.  Also,
    week 5 and 6 is when they discover they can control their tails,
    and they spend all day standing still, swishing their tails back
    and forth while looking over their shoulders.  
    
    Kittens are so much fun.  My litter is now two weeks old, and they
    are at the "oh my god, it is the human, sound the alarm" stage now.
    The minute I look at them, one of them will start meowing, and then
    the rest will all join in.  Then they come tumbling over to greet
    me, screaming all the while.
    
    Jo

    Jo - when does the "discover the toilet" phase happen?  I remember
    a litter that a friend's cat had and they all discovered the toilet
    and had to stand up and look over the seat every time you flushed!
    
    Dundee just reached that stage 2 wks ago!  Now he insists on
    supervising every flush!
    

    The "discover the toilet" stage doesn't come along til much later,
    as you have noticed with Dundee.  They don't realize that there
    is life above ground level til they are much older and stronger.
    
    One of my cats is a slow learner, she just hit the "discover the
    toilet" stage at two years old.  Now she dashes into the bathroom
    whenever she hears one of us in there.  (This can be very embarrassing
    if you have guests over and they need to use the facilities.  They
    can't understand why your cat insists on going in with them.  That
    is until.....)
    
    Jo 

    Oh, I forgot to tell you, my kittens are out of the "oh my god,
    it's the human, sound the alarm" stage as of this morning.  Now
    they just look up at me, blink a couple of times, and then go
    "oh, it's just the human, let's all go back to sleep".  And they
    do just that.
    
    Jo