Conference misery::feline_v1

    Well, I have a newly restored car, and my neighbors' cats climb all
    over it, and they haven't done any damage to the paint.  Muddy pawprints,
    true, but those wash off when you wash the car.  I did have to turn the 
    burglar alarm sensitivity to low, or they set the alarm off.  I'm
    sure if you get an alarm and leave it sensitive enough you'll discourage
    the cats (or the neighbors) pronto.  I turned mine down because the
    outside cats use the car as a leaping place to get into my garage loft
    where they take refuge in bad weather, so I wanted to let them continue
    using it (these aren't my cats remember, I have no say about their
    being out in this weather.)
    

    thats bout it,ask them to buy a bucket and sponge 
    for you and remind them that any damage will be up to them.
    phil
    

    Are you sure its just this cat?
    
    My cat climbs all over my (and my parents) car, but many times
    I have seen other cats on them too.....and they really only leave
    dirty paw prints....
    
    The alarm idea sounds like a good one
                        
    Good luck!
    
    Michele& Nippa

    Since this is a REAL issue for you, and people really can't control
    where their outdoor cats go, (unless they leash them) the car cover 
    sounds like a really good investment.  It may be a pain to put it on 
    all the time, but a little "insurance" would be worth any future
    hassles with the neighbors.  
    
    Let's be realistic--how can these people control their cat from
    getting on the car?  They can make the cat get off when
    they see him/her on the car, but that's after the fact.  Even if
    you told them that damage to the car from the cat was their responsi-
    bility, try and prove it was the cat that damaged the car.  I sure
    would want more than just your say so if I were your neighbor.
    
    Afterthought---you could always build a garage (ha,ha).
    
    Good luck.

    
    Re: .0
    
    	I agree with all the previous notes.  Unless your neighbors
    	keep the cat inside, they can't keep it off your car.  I too
    	like the idea of the car alarm.  If it was set off in the 
    	middle of the night, you could just let it sound until you
    	see your neighbors lights go on!  You could inform them that
    	their cat did this.  If a nightly alarm becomes regular, they
    	may decide to keep the cat in at night.  The alarm might be
    	enough that they'll keep the cat in WHENEVER your home.
    
    	The car cover is also an excellent idea and I've seen them
    	at ADAP for less than $50 so you should check that out.
    
    	The certified mail might be pushing it, and you don't want to
    	make enemies out of your neighbors.  Just remember, wherever
    	you live, the rest of you life, your neighbors are going to
    	have cats.  And its probably not just one cat that is getting
    	on your car.
    
    	Good luck,
    	
    	Karen  

    re .0
    
    It's unfortunate, but you really don't have any rights in this case.
    Cats are not like dogs where they are expected to be kept under control
    by their owners.  Actually, I don't think this is fair to you, but
    since when is life all that fair!!  I think the car cover would
    be your best bet in this case.  The alarm might work, but then again
    you will also loose sleep and it could really make ALL of your
    neighbors mad AT YOU.  
    
    Several years ago, I had a problem with my neighbors dogs coming
    into MY yard to beat up on MY puppy.  Well, I told the neighbor
    about this, nothing was done, so I told him again and that's when
    the neighborly fued started.  This man has been angry with me ever
    since and his children have caused more damage to my property than
    his dogs.  We eventually put up and paid for a fence around 
    our property to keep out both his kids and dogs!  Sometimes it's
    worth  the money to fix the problem yourself rather than fighting
    with the neighbor!  Good luck!
    
    Jeanne
     

Whoa! I can't believe what I'm reading in here! Especially in .7!

>>>    It's unfortunate, but you really don't have any rights in this case.
My property that is sitting on my land is being damaged by someone else's
actions (or lack of) and I HAVE NO RIGHTS?! I know you're a cat lover but 
read what you wrote! You can't be serious?  If your neighbors came and
complained about your cats, I guess you'd take the same attitude as my 
neighbor did, "nothing we can do, you solve the problem"?

As for the alarm, I don't feel it's my responsibility to dish out $$ to 
solve this. Maybe my neighbors should buy me the alarm.  And the car cover
is not really viable, as you cannot put a cover over a car that is dirty
etc.. (after a driving in rain/snow for example) as that would scratch as 
much as the cat.

Yes, I am positive that this is the cat. I've seen him many times sitting on
there, only to jump off and run next door when I come out of the house. 

The registered letter may be a start. I'm not concerned about making enemies
at this point. It doesn't appear to me that my neighbors are concerned
about making enemies, if they were, it seems they would at least try something 
to work this out.

I know that this is the FELINE conference and everyone reading this loves cats,
but I cannot believe that the general consensus is that this is my problem,
I should leave my neighbors out of it, and I should incur any and all expenses
to solve it.

        Keep your  water  hose connected - zap the cat any time you see
        it on your  property.   If it always uses the same route to get
        to your car, sprinkle a cat repellant along your property line,
        and around where you park your car (pepper sometimes works).
        
        

    re .8
    
    PLEASE, PLEASE, calm down!  I didn't mean to insinuate that the
    owner of this cat was right in what he was doing to you.  I totally
    agree with you and I would be furious if my neighbors cat were damaging
    my property.  I agree with you, BUT legally you have no rights.
    I know!  I tried to get my neighbor to control his dogs and I couldn't
    do it!  Even the police and dog officer laughed at me.  All I was
    saying is that in some situations, the law just isn't on your side.
    
    And NO, I would not have a bad attitude if my neighbor complained
    about my cats.  And furthermore, they would not because my cats
    DO NOT GO OUT.  One of the reasons I keep them in is because I don't
    want them bothering anybody and I don't want any trouble!!!  My
    dog has also never been allowed to roam.  She is alway in MY HOUSE
    or MY YARD!!  
                                   
    I was just trying to save you a lot of aggravation in dealing with
    these neighbors of yours.  If they are not responsible now, they
    never will be and I dought that the law or the courts will take
    your side.  Cats are considered free roaming animals, like skunks,
    birds, and squirels and "legally" their owners bear very little
    responsibility for their actions!  I agree with you that they should,
    but the truth of the matter is that they don't.  Again, good luck
    solving your problem and I still think a car cover is your best
    bet!
    
    Jeanne
    
    
      
    
    
    
    
    
    

    Hi,
    
    I AM a cat lover but I don't want my cats (or dog) to harm someone
    else's property.  My dog is fenced in and my cats are indoor cats.
    
    Have you tried the *repellant spray*???  That might work.  I know
    when I got my new car, I didn't want my neighbors cats or dogs or
    kids on bikes around it.  
    
    So being a cat lover has nothing whatsover to do with honoring a
    neighbors wishes or property.
    
    Sandi (Lightning, DejaVu & Thunder's mom)(& Keisha's too)
    
    

    
    Re: .8
    
    	Please don't get upset.  I think that everyone is just tring
    to point out that your neighbor can only do ONE thing in order
    to keep his cat off your car, and thats to keep him inside.  If
    he/she refuses to do that then you have no choice but to handle
    the matter on your own via a car alarm, a water hose, repellent,
    a car cover, whatever.  I really can't think of anything ELSE that
    the neighbor can to.  He can't exactly have a heart to heart talk
    with the cat and explain to it to stay away!  And since there is
    no leash law for cats, and no law about allowing them to go outside,
    there is nothing that can legally be done.  I agree, that stinks,
    but really, if the neighbor won't keep the cat in, what else can
    the neighbor do?  
    
    Karen

    If you do use a water hose, be sure it's a gentle spray.  It will
    be just as effective as a more forceful stream but without harming
    the cat.  I do agree with the other notes, however.  Cats is cats,
    birds is birds.  You can't do much about bird droppings without
    investing in a car cover, etc.
    
    I'm also a little puzzled.  Is it the dirt that bothers you, or the
    possibility of actual damage to the finish?  If the latter, you
    are probably worrying about nothing.  At least 2 or 3 cats are
    on my newly painted car every night, and no damage has been done.
    
    Side note:  many places have a leash law for dogs, which would have
    solved the other noters problem.
    

    re .13
    
    Guess what?  There is a leash law for dogs where I live and I still
    had no other choice but to fence my yard to keep my neighbors dogs out.
    
    It's crazy, but the police and the town selectmen really didn't
    care
    about my problem with the neighbors dogs.  They kept telling me
    that I should try harder to get along with them.  In other words,
    Put Up A Fence and shut up!!!  As I mentioned before, when push
    comes to shove, many laws just don't hold up!  
    
    
    Jeanne 
    

    Karen,
    
    There is a leash law where I live too but very few people abide
    by it.  I am one of the few.  I don't want Keisha hurt by a car
    or getting lost.  I would confine her whether there was a leash
    law or not. 
    
    As to damage to the car.  Cats have claws.  My ex-husbands car was
    totally ruined by cats jumping up on it.  He had to have it sanded
    down and totally re-painted.  Yes, he took excellant care of his
    car and waxed it often.
    
    Sandi
    
    

    I can understand .0's dismay that there is nothing he can do, however,
    I feel as he does (and yes, I have cats).  Free roaming or not,
    the cat is bothering him.  The neighbor SHOULD have a responsibility
    to keep the cat from bothering other people. Kitty paws on my car
    doesn't bother me, but of course, I have an older car that the kitty
    paws serve to ornament rather than downgrade the appearance ( ;)
    
    Whether it's legal or not, the neighbor should keep his cat inside--if
    he doesn't and you see it on your car, I was going to suggest squirting
    it with a hose (h*ll, squirt the neighbor too!  ;D  --kidding gang...),
    but as someone else suggested it already, I'll just simply add my
    two cents to it.  If the neighbor gets tired of a wet cat, maybe
    he'll keep it in (no, I am not advocating hurting the animal, but
    don't be afraid to get it plenty wet--cats dislike that and perhaps
    the image will stick).  The reason the cat gets on the car could
    be that it's nice and warm, or simply that it makes a nice high
    place to check things out.  Cat repellant might work, but in the
    outdoors, I'd expect it to degenerate quickly.
    
    The "leash laws" should extend to all pets...it makes no difference
    if it's a dog peeing on car tires,  or a cat making kitty paws--the
    owner has responsibilty to make sure his pet does not become a nuisance
    within reason.  
    
                                                      ---kim

    Our next door neighbors recently acquired a 6-month old kitten.
    CUTE as can be! And even though I LOVE cats, I'm having a problem
    with THEIR responsibility. My cats go BANANAS when they see a cat
    outside, to the effect that my two attach EACH OTHER for territorial
    rights! What's even worse, is that they're indoor cats, and when
    they start fighting, it's over cat that's outside, and they're tearing
     MY house apart! Anyhow, the little girl was giving the cat a ride
    in her bicycle basket (please, help me!) and I mentioned to her
    that our county (Anne Arundel - in Maryland) has a leash law. Boy,
    was SHE surprised! She still takes the cat outside, tight in her
    arms. BUT, if I see her cat on MY car, or aggravating MY cats, the
    cat will get wet!
    
    To make a long story short, my husband bought one of those "oozie"
    water guns for "behavior control", and it works for the neighborhood
    cats OUTSIDE as well as ours when they misbehave! Since we don't
    have a hose, the water gun is pretty good, considering it shoots
    about 30 feet away! If the water doesn't work with the new cat,
    I'm going to report them to our SPCA, which will stop by their house
    and distribute literature re: keeping your cat on a leash. If they
    don't like that rule, ANYONE can bring the cat into the SPCA, and
    they can "re-adopt" their cat. Which, if THAT happens, they may
    not get it back! Our SPCA has an "interview" process to determine
    if you will possibly be a good cat owner, and if their cat is inthere
    already, their gonna wanna know why!
    
    ANYHOW, I agree with -.0. I believe (my opinion) that a pet is an
    OWNERS responsibility. And I would try on MY part, to compromise.
    HOWEVER, if the neighbor doesn't want to, then you can:
    
      a.  buy a car cover
      b.  buy an alarm
      c.  buy a water gun OR use a hose on the cat
      d.  get your OWN cat with REAL sharp claws and have it live 
          on the neighbors car! (JUST KIDDING!) ;^)
    
    Good luck!
    

    I think all who have responded to this particular note agree that
    .0 has rights as the aggravated neighbor; and,  pet owners should
    be responsible for THEIR pets.  However, realistically speaking,
    the society in which we live doesn't exactly live by the same philo-
    sophies as we do.   The Golden Rule somehow (sadly enough) has changed
    to "Revenge! Do unto others what you would not want done to yourself!"
    
    Since .0's neighbors don't seem to be taking responsibility for their
    cat's actions, it is quite likely (highly probable) that any further
    discussions about this problem will turn into an all out feud. 
    If that happens, nothing will be gained by either party.  Rights
    or no rights, cat lovers or no cat lovers, feline note or not, your
    chances of having your neighbor solve your problem are nil, unless
    you are able to have a heart-to-heart, sane conversation with them,
    with a mutual agreement being reached in a peacable manner.  If
    you don't feel that is a possibility, then you have no other
    alternative but to take your own protection for your car, regardless
    of the cost.  And, I do believe that spraying the cat (even though the 
    cat may eventually learn the lesson) is not going to make for
    peaceable relations with the neighbors.  If you don't care about
    peaceable relations, or further problems about other territorial
    matters, then you will have to decide what action is best.  You asked 
    these noters for their experiences/opinions, and they have kindly
    responded.  To attack us for our opinions is unfair--whether we love
    cats or not!  So, I ask you--what do you think we should say?
    
    
    Karen  (INDOOR CAT MOM!)
    (and I still think a cover is the best solution--even if you
     cover the car dirty.  The idea is to prevent damage from
     the cat.  Not keep it spotless.)
    

What is this "cat repellant" everyone is talking about? I've never heard
of such a thing. Sounds like something else to try.

As far as spraying with a hose, well, I've already tried it. Either a) I'm
not able to get close enough to it before it runs away or b) very little
water touches it so that it has very little effect.

re: -.1
I wasn't aware that I was attacking anyone's opinions, I was simply in awe
when I read that my rights are basically nil in this situation? I also got
the feeling in reading .1-.7 that "I should just leave the poor cat 
alone, it's not the cat's fault it does these things and the owners can't
do anything about it". Build a garage, or cover your car or get an alarm
installed, do anything and everything but bother (hurt) the cat or start
a feud with the neighbors.  I thought I had done more than should be 
expected of me to settle it peaceably, and was hoping I could get some ideas
in here about (?) pet restraining laws? legal action if it progressed to the
point where a new paint job was required? other ways to approach the neighbors
to make them understand the situation? etc, etc, I don't know.

I can't see why these people have cats, it's obvious they don't care much about
them. I saw the cat in question last evening outside in the pouring rain
for a long while, sitting by the front door wanting to go in. I can see now 
that if they don't care too much about the cat to begin with, they're not 
going to care too much about my property. Looks like I have an uphill battle...

Well, thanks for the responses (even though I still think they were biased
as hell! :-) there's a smiley there, don't flame me!! :-)

    Repellant is called "NO".  Can be bought anywhere.  Keeps animals
    off furniture and out of gardens.  Should work on cars.  You might
    have to keep using it for a while until the cat understands but
    I think it is better than cat claw marks.
    
    Sandi
    
    P.S.  I'm not going to get into the *BIASED* comment, but I personally
    think you might think that one through.
    
    

    re: .0
    
    i can sympathize with your position. i think you've done enough to try 
    and solve it peaceably. as a last resort, try this: if the cat lets you
    get close enough to catch him while he's on the car, grab him and haul him 
    down to your local humane society. then, notify your neighbors where they 
    can pick up their beloved pet. 
    
    it seems to me that animals that can't (won't) be controlled shouldn't
    be considered a pet, so give it the same treatment as you would a
    woodchuck destroying your garden, or a mole tearing up your front lawn
    or a bothersome skunk.
    
    these people should be made responsible for their pets (just like
    parents are responsible for their children's actions) and this just
    might be what they need.
    
    signed, fuming_that_you're_letting_these_people_off_so_easy
    

    try  
       1.  the repellent spray for sometime to break the habit
    if that doesn't work
       2.  call your local animal control officer or some such 
           authority that exists in towns and tell them your
           problem and ask for advice
    if that doesn't work
       3.  try Doug Leuwellen [sic] Universal Method of solving 
           problems ;-}.  
    
    (RUMI) �.  Not_a_lawyer_!

    If you can't find the repellant spray called NO, try BOUNDARY. 
    Same thing and the cats hate it.
    
    
    /Roberta (who's used it on her chairs to keep kitty from clawing)
    

    
    You may also want to try approaching your neighbors with a solution
    versus just the problem itself.  The neighbors probably can't be
    bothered to think of one themselves, but if you give them a list
    of satisfactory solutions (as far as you are concerned), perhaps
    they will agree.  For instance, you could approach them by saying,
    "after repeated efforts to solve the problem, your cat is still
    jumping on my car and I find it unacceptable and would like to resolve
    the problem peacefully.  Would you consider:
    
    A. Leaving the cat indoors
    B. Purchasing a car cover (they could even claim it if they move
       or the cat dies (kidding of course  8^)
    C. Stating in writing that they will pay for any damages done to
       the car and that they are aware that the cat has been climbing
       on it on a regular basis.  Take a picture of the paint now and
       as proof of damage later.  Then have a body shop estimate the
       repairs (buff job or paint job) if any damage has been caused.
       Obviously, they probably will not agree to this one!
    
    Howvever, it will show them that you are real serious and that you
    are trying to resolve the situation by presenting solutions in a
    peaceful manner.  If they are jerks about it, tell them that the
    cat will be brought to the SPCA every time you find him on your
    property and that any damages done to your car will result in a
    small claims court case.  Also, that you are documenting all
    interactions and taking pictures of the car now in case of a problem
    later.
    
    Rick
    

    Re .21
        
    >as a last resort, try this: if the cat lets you
    >get close enough to catch him while he's on the car, grab him and haul him 
    >down to your local humane society. then, notify your neighbors where they 
    >can pick up their beloved pet. 
    
    >it seems to me that animals that can't (won't) be controlled shouldn't
    >be considered a pet
    
    I disagree.  It appears to me that it is the neighbors that is the
    problem.  The poor cat most likely does not realize that he is doing
    anything wrong.
        
    >these people should be made responsible for their pets (just like
    >parents are responsible for their children's actions) and this just
    >might be what they need.
    
    I agree.
    
    
    

    I'd just like to point out to all you folks who are advocating
    taking the cat to an animal shelter that you are most likely
    condeming the cat to death!  You have a much more optimistic
    opinion of the cat's chances to find a new home than is realistic.
    
    I agree with .0's feelings - he has a RIGHT not to have his property
    damaged.  I am currently battling with a neighbor who lets his 
    big black, cat attacking dog run.  My cats are INDOOR cats except
    when out on leashes.  So I can really empathize with his feelings
    about someone elses's pet threatening his property!  In our
    case, if we can get close enough to the dog we can grab it and
    call the dog officer.  The neighbors then get fined.  I figure
    eventually they'll get sick of paying the money.
    
      Unfortunately, while I totally agree with .0 and feel he is
    perfectly justified to be angry, the reality of the situation is
    that his neighbors obviously don't care.  (And you're right, they
    can't care much for the cat if they leave it out all night in the
    rain.)  This means that you're going to have to come up with a 
    solution that is within your control.  That means things like
    Fences or cat repellant or a car cover.  Call the MSPCA and ask
    them for suggestions.  You need to find things that you can do because
    obviously, your neighbors aren't going to cooperate.
      I sincerely hope that you'll be able to find a solution.  I really
    HATE situations where the animal ends up suffering because the owners
    are IGNORANT!  Good luck
      Nancy DC

              
    I mentioned this problem to my husband tonight and he saw something
    adversised in May issue of "Car and Driver". In the advertisement
    section under "NEW PRODUCTS" it says:
    
      "GOT A CAT PROBLEM???? SCAT MAT is THE SOLUTION! Quickly
       and effectively trains cats to avoid your car. Available
       direct, automotive or pet specialty shops. Information and
       ordering: Contech Electronics, Inc., P.O.B. 115, Saanichton,
        B.C. Canada VOS 1M0 (604) 652-0755. $69.00 Check, M/O, VISA"
    
    There's a picture over the add of a car with about 6 cats bathing
    themselves (it's SO cute!) ANYHOW, I don't know what this thing
    does. I told my husband that I HOPE it is NOT �*shock therapy! If it 
    is, all ATTACKS should be sent to HIM directly at DACT6::COLEMAN!
    
    Guess this is another possibility if you don't mind spending money
    (and it isn't SHOCK treatment!).
    
    Cheryl (Shanti and Charlie who say: you shock me ENOUGH by walking
             across OUR carpet!)
    

re: .27  Now that's the kind of information I was hoping to get!

I just called Contech Electronics to find out more about the "Scat Mat".
It is shock therapy, in a sense.  This thing is a 2'x4' mat that you 
lay across the hood (or wherever you most frequently find the paw prints).
You plug it into a standard outlet, or can get an optional battery adapter
or optional cigarette lighter plug.

It produces "static electricity-type" shocks that last for 5/1,000,000 
or a second. The shocks are repeated every second or so.  It's safe if a kid
touches it and weather proof, etc... The guy said that this thing's success 
rate is 95%, and that it only takes one or two walks across it for the cat to 
realize that if it's going to jump up on the car, it's not going to be a
pleasant experience.

They have distributors throughout the US, so you don't have to mail order
(there's a place right in Framingham (MA)).

This thing is cheaper than a car cover, won't have to be put on and taken
off every day for 5 years, and will stop him from getting on the car
(not just prevent scratches while he's up there).  Think I'll give it 
a try, tried just about everything else...

That sounds like a good solution.  Let us know how it works.

    Glad we were able to come through for you.  This sounds like
    an excellent solution - and it won't harm the cat either!
    If it does the trick, it'll be a win for everyone.
      Nancy DC
    

    I haven't tried this myself but I have been told to keep a cat
    off a car sprinkle pepper all over it.  It would be worth a try
    and would be easy to do.  The pepper would also blow away the 
    next time you go driving.