Conference misery::feline_v1

    If Tsunami is happy being inside, I think it would be wise to keep
    it that way.  If she gets a taste of the outdoors, she may begin
    to bolt when the door is open.  Cats can be very sly and sneaky
    about finding ways to get outside.  I know that some people have
    been successful in leash training their cats but personally I don't
    think it's worth the risk.  
    
    Jeanne
    
    

    
    
    I'd be interested too.
    
    Out of curiousitys sake.
    
    How do you train your cat with the leash?
    
    F.

    Just thought I'd share my experience...
    
    When we first adopted Missy 1-1/2 years ago, we thought it was
    adorable to walk her "out back" on a leash.  She loved it.
    We even took her camping in Acadia, Maine and tied her at the
    campsite while we were about cooking etc.  She loved that too.
    
    BUT the problem that came from all of this was a *huge* flea
    investation.  So we never take her out anymore.  Those few
    moments of delicious joy for her were in no way worth the aggravation
    we ended up going through.
    
    Diane
    

    
    
    How did you train her?  Just through the lease on and say lets go
    for a walk??
    
    My 3 or 4 month old is dying to get out and has never been out except
    for when I moved.  
    
    I've battled flea problems before and won!!  So that wouldn't bother
    me...  Just throw some flea powder on and say lets go.
    
    F.

    I tried leashing with TAbby, my first kitty when I moved out of
    my own. We had an apartment right off the highway, so no way could
    he go out by himself, so we tried the leash. But like most cats,
    Tabby was a Houdini, and after trying 3 different harnessing systems,
    with failure for each one, inside he remained. Training him wasn't
    the problem, a little each day inside the house, keeping it on him
    longer each week. Then I took him out in the hallway, down in the
    cellar, progressed to the back steps, then the yard. That's where
    the trouble began. Houdini struck every time.
      The funny thing he loved going in the car, and would never struggle
    from me when we headed for the car, which was almost every day.
      But it's amazing how agile cats are, just one twist of his body
    and he could manuver out of any leash.
    
                                                     Denise

    I have the same fears.  I would love to take Jasper out in the yard
    for a walk or expore.  But we know that he would love it so much
    and are afraid that he would be a real pain at trying to get out
    the doors when the nice weather comes and all doors are screened
    and opened more often.  So, not wanting to create a problem for
    myself, I am hesitant to start the outside adventure walks.  He
    finally got over the feeling that he's paralyzed when in the harness.
    But, I'm sure that given the chance he would find a way to ignore
    the harness when out in the wide open spaces.  So, if anyone has
    experiences of cats on leashes only outside, I would appreciate
    hearing how they deal with the little ones when inside.
    

    I saw on CNN news sometime last Fall that a suburb of Chicago now has a
    leash law for cats!  Imagine that!
    
    Mary
    

    To answer one of your questions that I believe hasn't been answered...
    
    If you decide to try leash training use a harness.  Cats can rebel
    at being on a leash, and a halter won't choke and is harder to get out
    of than a collar.
    
    Good luck, whatever you decide,
    Karen, Tristan, Tenzing and Max.

I am starting to lean toward keeping Tsunami in.
She is happy inside.
It would be more for my pleasure (I think) to walk her outside.
I don't think I will make waves.  We are perfectly happy.

By the way for those of you who helped me when Tsunami was biting:
She isn't anymore.  I used the "dark bathroom jail" technique and it
worked!  Thanks two-fold.

    Our four have been out on leashes for quite a while - well, Not
    Dundee - he's only 10 months old.  
      Mao is the only one who will actually walk on the leash.  We have
    taken her on the trails thru the Braintree conservation land which
    is behind our house.  One of us walks in front and the other behind
    with the leash.  She just trots along between us - following the
    one in front.
      We have runs set up in the back yard.  These are old pieces of
    parachute line (5000 lb test) strung between trees at about 6 ft.
    It may be higher since Jack is 6'5" but I don't think so.  I have
    Clips (I'm not sure of the right word for these) on each end of
    the leash part with a very light, but strong one on the side that
    goes to the harness and a heavier one that clips to the run.  The
    leashes are also parachute line.  
      Yes, they ask to go outside.  They also know what "no" means.
    That doesn't mean they don't keep asking - we just say "not today"
    and then ignore them.  Or if they're especially persistent I'll
    demonstrate how cold or wet or snowy it is and they get the idea.
    During the good weather, I put them out almost every day.  
      Usually we keep the harnesses in the house and put them on the
    cats.  Then we open the door - they bounce out into the yard
    and wander around while I run around grabbing leashes and hooking
    them up.  They don't tend to run off.  Occassionally Bumpy heads
    for the neighbor's yard and I end up vaulting the fence after her
    but they don't go far.  Also, on the very rare occasion that they've
    headed in the direction of the street they have always responded
    to voice command.  I think I use a very different tone when its
    really important and they know it.  
      Also, we've trained them to know what "in the house" means. So
    when I go to bring them in, I walk around unhooking cats and saying
    "Bumpy in the house", "Isis, in the house"  and they go over to
    the steps and wait by the door.  Isis also knows what "go with Mao"
    means.  
      There have been times when they've run off a few feet - but that's
    another story as to how we handled that.  I'll be glad to talk about
    that if anyone wants to call me (297-2313).
      I'm more concerned with that dog up the street than anything else.
    Oh - one other thing.  When the cats are out on the leashes, I'm
    right there with them.  
      and Bumpy's nickname.......HOUDINI CAT.
      Nancy DC
    

    Here's one other option that we're working on.  We built a deck
    (2nd story) onto the house last year.  We need only to add the
    stairs and railings.  When we lived in our last apartment, we had
    a 2nd story deck and the cats had free access to it all the time.
    We even bought a bug zapper so that we could leave the window open
    all night during the summer without getting eaten alive.  
      The cats adored the deck, spent hours out there sunning themselves
    and watching what was going on.  (such busy-bodies) And you don't
    have to worry about dogs or fleas or ticks.  For this new one we
    plan on using lattice around the sides to keep them from hanging
    over the edges.
      If this is an option for you, it may be the perfect compromise.
    
      Good luck
       Nancy DC
    

    NDC - sounds like all the "kids" as so well behaved!  Can Jasper
    come to your house for training?  My daughter and I haven't gotten
    over the fear of Jasper just taking off.  He seems to be a real
    tom cat, and we feel that if given the chance he'd take off.  So,
    we're afraid to create a problem--and we love him much too much
    to lose him.   So, we would have to get over our fears before we
    would dare do with him what you are doing.  And, it could be that
    we're not giving him the chance to prove he's a "good" boy.

    Well, I'll be the first to admit that the furry foursome
    is pretty well behaved as kitties go.  What we've done to
    deserve this, I couldn't tell you.  
      Of course - Bumpytail and Isis still take off every 
    once in a while.  We used to get so angry with Isis,  Jack
    would chase her around calling her a bad cat and telling her
    to get in the house.  Then when she finally went to the door, or
    he caught her she'd get punished. One day he got so angry with her
    that he shook her.  She got so scared she pee'd all over him!
    (Serves him right, the big bully!  If she hadn't done it, I would
    have done something similar!)  At any rate, I realized that we 
    weren't handling this right.  After all, she finally did what we
    wanted (came back to the house) and got punished for it.  So we
    decided that we would not punish her.  Rather, when she came back
    to the house we'd tell her what a good girl she was.  That way
    she'd get the idea that when she ran back to the house she was 
    good.  It worked!  
      She still wanders off occasionally, but she just makes this 
    loop through the neighbor's yard, into the undeveloped part of
    our yard and then back up to the door.  We still chase her
    telling her to "get in the house" but she gets rewarded when
    she does go back to the stairs.  The whole episode takes about
    15 seconds now and I think she's just playing a game with us.
    Besides - she always heads away from the street!
      Actually, as I've said, this year we're going to finish the deck
    and I'm hoping that they'll be satisfied spending most of their
    time sunning themselves out there.  
    
      I wonder how much of the kitties' behavior has to do with the
    fact that they're older cats and we've had alot of time together
    to work things out.
      Nancy DC
    

    addendum to .13
    
      I forgot to say, that you have to go with your conscience.
    If you're worried about losing Jasper then don't let him out.
    You do what you think is best for him.  I can only tell you
    what our experiences have been and how we've handled them.
    
    And yes, you're welcome to bring Jasper over!
       I can't get enough  of those kitty-cats!!
       Nancy DC
    
    

    Thanks for the advise and offer.  I'm afraid that Jasper would
    terrorize your guys though.  Actually, he's just a BIG MOUTH,
    trying to prove how tough he is all the time.  I really don't 
    know what he'd be like around other kitties.  But, he's been
    around kids and he looks at them like they're martians (some
    of them are!), and when they get too close he hisses at them.
    So, only experience would tell us what he's really like in a
    social setting.  We think he'd be the neighborhood bully.
    

    Ah, so you don't think he'd get the idea by watching, eh?
    Oh well, some kitties are like that....Some PEOPLE are like
    that - especially some *K*I*D*S* are like that...as my mother
    is fond of telling me ("You'd NEVER listen to your mother.  you
    ALWAYS had to find out for yourself"...sigh)
    
      Well, if you ever find yourself in the Braintree area, look
    me up!
      Nancy Diettrich-Cunniff  (look under Diettrich)