Conference misery::feline_v1

    As a starting place, there are several notes on FIP. Type 
    SHO KEY/FULL FIP at the NOTES> prompt.
    
    Deb

    Andrea - try not to worry too much.
    
    My neighbor's kitten had had an ongoing virus for about 3 months.
    He was off and on all kinds of antibiotics until she finally decided
    to switch vets (at my suggestion) because nothing was working. 
    The new vet immediately did a felv test (negative) and an FIP test,
    which came back with a very high titer.  My neighbor was frantic;
    however, the vet assured her that the high titer could very well
    be associated with the virus and the length of time he's had it.
    She changed his antibiotic and scheduled a retest for one month
    later.  Well, he went in yesterday and the titer reading was much
    lower.  I don't remember the exact numbers but do know that her
    kitten (about 7 months old) is going to be fine.
    
    It is my understanding that titer readings vary and are not always
    accurate.  I encourage you to take Deb's suggestion and read the
    other notes in this conference regarding FIP.
    
    Praying for Bigfoot,
    
    
    /Roberta
    
    

         Thanks for the encouragement.  It looks like FIP is a pretty
    nasty thing but, like you said, other things besides FIP cause a
    high reading (the vet didn't specify how high).  I will have to
    discuss this with him Sunday night, anyway, to see if he wants a
    retest or whatever.
    
         I'm encouraged because Bigfoot is eating, drinking, going to
    the bathroom and *playing* with the others.  Before we took him
    New Year's Eve, he was staying in our bedroom and wouldn't budge
    except to eat/drink.  Now, although he still loves to spend time
    in our bedroom, he is coming out at night and socializing with us;
    the past few mornings he has gotten up before us and played with
    Fluffy, chasing and boxing and doing all the things we're used to
    seeing them do.
    
         I'm hoping his illness was just a virus combined with getting
    older.  But I have to admit that if he does indeed have FIP, I am
    scared.  I don't want to lose Bigfoot, though certainly if he were
    in pain or suffering I would do what had to be done.  It's just
    that he became an indoor cat and starting living a "life of luxury"
    (good food, more attention, in all better care) only 1� years ago, 
    and it seems like it's too soon to lose him now.
    
         Guess I'll just have to wait until Sunday and "interrogate"
    the vet then ;-) .
    
         Thanks again!
    
                                       - Andrea
    

    You might consider isolating him from the other cats in the meantime,
    just to be on the safe side.
    
    There still isn't a good test for FIP (at least not one that can
    be done while the cat is still alive).  But be encouraged...from
    what I have read about FIP, a zero titer is much worse than having
    a titer since that would indicate that the cat had NO antibodies
    to the disease at all!
    
    Good luck to you and bigfoot.  His behavior certainly seems
    encouraging.
    
    Jo

         Bigfoot is doing rather well.  He's eating, drinking, etc.
    and socializing quite a bit more.  He's playing with us, boxing
    with Fluffy and sitting on my lap at night, instead of hibernating
    in the bedroom all night.
    
         Could it be that he really doesn't have FIP, that he just had
    a virus?
    
         Am taking Bigfoot back to Tufts in the middle of February for
    another blood test.  Here's hoping that the titer goes down ...
    
                                    - Andrea

         Well, Bigfoot had his repeat FIP test on Monday and the results
    are ... he is still the same.  The titer is >1:2048 - can anyone
    tell me what that means?
    
         We're supposed to bring Fluffy and Loki in for FIP tests, and
    retest Bigfoot in 3 months.  Sigh.  I was told that it could be
    just that Bigfoot was exposed to FIP and doesn't have it, as he
    and Fluffy were indoor/outdoor before September 1987.  For now all
    we can do is hope for the best, I guess.
    
                                        - Andrea

    Andrea - I think that a titer is the count of the antibodies for
    FIP.  As far as how his number compares to other titers, I don't
    know.  I do know that a titer of 0 is thought to be bad since that
    would indicate that there are NO antibodies present.  According
    to Nels Pederson at UC Davis, FIP virus is every where (like the
    flu and cold viruses) and that cats should have some titer for them.
    
    Try not to worry yet.  No since worrying until there is a real reason
    too.  Give Bigfoot an extra hug from me.  For more information on
    FIP call the nearest Veterinary Teaching School, they are very helpful.
    UC Davis also treats cats so maybe the school near you does too.
    
    Jo

    Hi Jo,
    
         Bigfoot (and now Loki and Fluffy) are going to Tufts Veterinary
    School in Grafton, supposed to be one of the best (the other is
    Angell in Boston, but since we live in Shrewsbury near Worcester,
    that's way too far a hike for them).  I know that if anything can
    be done if him/them, they will be able to do it.
    
         All the vets I've seen so far at Tufts, though, have been pretty
    vague about this disease; seems it's very elusive and there is no
    treatment.  They all said he could have just been exposed to it
    (he was indoor/outdoor a couple of years ago), so that's what we're
    hoping happened.  He could also have been exposed to another virus
    in the same family as FIP, but not fatal.  Gosh, it sure is confusing.
    
         The others go in on Monday for their tests.
    
         Does anyone else know about titers?
    
                                        - Andrea
         

    Andrea,
    
    I like to encourage you to do a SHOW KEY/FULL FIP as suggested in
    reply .2.  The notes referenced there contain a lot of discussion
    on FIP, titers, etc.
    
    Donna

    correction:  the suggestion was made in reply .1 (not .2)

    Hi Andrea,
    
    Like everyone else says, try not to worry to much.  Has the vet
    mentioned any other signs of the FIP virus except the high titer??
    If not, the high titer may just be a cross-reaction to another virus
    in the same family.  Has Bigfoot has a booster shot recently, a
    recent booster can put enough of a virus in his system to show a
    high titer count.  My vet recommends waiting at least 60 days from
    the last booster when doing an FIP test.  
    
    Tufts is a great place, all of the staff that I have dealt with
    there are extremely gentle and loving to the animals, and also deal
    with us humans pretty good too.  They try to explain things as best
    they can.  
    
    If you'ld like to talk to a specialist in the FIP area, you may
    want to talk to Dr. Jeffrey Barlow at Cornell University.  
    
    Give me a call if you need someone to talk to.
    
    purrs
    cin...whose trying to get in touch with feline again!
    

    re. .10
    
    Hi Donna,
    
         Have already looked through those notes, but didn't see what
    I was looking for.  Was curious if the number >1:2048 struck a chord
    with anyone; the vet said that was medium-high, but I'm just curious
    what that means.  Maybe that's my engineering background coming
    out :-) ;-) ;-) :-) !
    
    re. .11
    
    Hi Cin,
    
         Nope, Bigfoot and the others had their boosters last summer.
    We took Bigfoot in because he was listless and had that "sick" look
    in his eyes; he *was* dehydrated, so he picked up something.  We
    were hoping it was just a virus and that he had kicked it off, but
    with the titer the same I guess he hasn't kicked it off yet.  Guess
    the retest in 3 months will tell us how he's doing.
    
         Thanks for the encouragement!
    
                                       - Andrea 

    Note 1614.15 and 1614.17 have something to say about acceptable
    titer values.  If you're curious about what the titer values
    really mean, the information is in the notes referenced with
    SHOW KEY.   I just read them all and they seem to contain just
    about all you'd want to know about FIP.
    
    Donna

   >                    Was curious if the number >1:2048 struck a chord
   > with anyone; the vet said that was medium-high, but I'm just curious
   > what that means.  Maybe that's my engineering background coming
   > out :-) ;-) ;-) :-) !
    
    
    Maybe it strikes a cord with you because it is 2**11?
    
    Deb

    Re. .13
    
    Hi Donna,
    
         *That's* what I was looking for; I *knew* I had seen a note
    on titer numbers and couldn't find it (system is mucho piggo). 
    Thank you.  Now I can see what they meant about 2048 being high;
    400 is on the almost acceptable level.  Wow.
    
    Re. .14
    
    Hi Deb,
    
         Must be ;-) ;-) ;-) !!
    
         Thanks again, all, you're wonderful!
    
                                      - Andrea

         And the results are ...
    
         Bigfoot    1:2048  (high)
         Loki       1:2048  (high)
         Fluffy     1:128   (essentially negative)
    
         This is strange because Loki was an indoor only cat, the only
    cats he was exposed to were my parent's Abby who died of a heart
    attack, Toby the neighbor cat who looks to be fine and Fluffy and
    Bigfoot.
    
         We're set for a retest in about three months.  I assume if
    either Bigfoot or Loki are active, Fluffy should "catch" it from
    them.  So we wait and see ...
    
                                      - Andrea
    

    Andrea, don't worry til you have too.  In the meantime, keep your
    chin up, and give them lots of love.
    
    Good luck to you, Bigfoot, Loki, and Fluffy.
    
    Jo Ann

	I've spent hours reading through all of these notes on FIP and
	every book that I've been able to get my hands on.  I must admit
	that quite a few tears have rolled down my cheeks.  I'm sitting
	at home my SO's 6 month old flame point Himilayan named Sebastian, 
	who just tested positive for FIP.

	About 6 weeks ago Sebastian developed a fungus on his side.  We took
	him to the vet who, after several visits, finally gave us an oral
	antibiotic and and anti-fungal cream.  That seemed to take care of
	the fungus, but 2-3 weeks into taking the antibiotic he started
	acting very lethargic.  Then he got very sick for 2 days where all
	did was lie in the same place.  He recovered from that, but remained
	lethargic.  Since the fungus was gone, I stopped the anti-biotic in
	hopes that that was what was causing the lethargy.  When he didn't
	begin acting normal we took him to the vet.  

	His breathing was heavy, and an x-ray revealed that there was a 
	fair amount of fluid in the lungs.  Some clear liquid was drawn from 
	the lungs, but we decided not to have it sent out.  An FiLV test was 
	administered and was negative.  Blood was drawn for an FIP test.  
	The vet also gave us another antibiotic and a diuretic to help drain 
	the fluid from the body cavities.

	The FIP results came back on Saturday, and were positive.  I titre
	level was >1:2048, which from what I've read is very bad.  I just got
	off of the phone with a Dr. Susan Cross from Tufts, and she indicated
	that a high Titre level by itself isn't positive proof of FIP.
	According to her, there are other (treatable) diseases that could
	cause the high titre readings.  We're thinking of taking him to Tufts.

	I don't know if it matters, but he had his 2'nd set of immunizations 
	about 2 weeks before he developed the fungus.  Sebastian isn't eating 
	much, but I just picked up some nutra-cal, which is a high calorie 
	dietary/vitamin supplement.  He's eating some of that, and is 
	drinking lots of fluids, but isn't getting any better.  He's lost 
	a fair amount of weight, and doesn't have much energy.

	Right now I'm wondering why I'm writing this, and I guess that one of 
	my major concerns is that I don't do anything that will cause Sebastian
	needless pain.  What's so strange here, is that before I met Sebastian,
	I never liked cats.  But something happened, and I fell in love with
	him.  It hurts so much to feel so helpless and just watch him waste 
	away. I don't know what else to do except to hope and pray that just
	maybe, somehow, that he recovers.  But I know the score...

						-- Geoff

    Hi Geoff,
    
         My hopes are with you and Sebastian.  Our cats have been acting
    pretty normal most of the time, so I'm hoping that they were just
    exposed or have one of those treatable viruses.  They go to Tufts,
    and I must say that Tufts is wonderful.  Not that much more expensive
    than a regular vet, and the best of care.
    
         Bigfoot tends to breathe quickly; Loki kind of heavily.  Loki
    is pre-asthmatic, though, so I'm hoping that it's that that's causing
    it.  They play and run, eat and sleep normally, so we're just keeping
    our eyes peeled.  They go in for re-tests in May.
                                              
         Best of luck to you and Sebastian.  Miracles happen every day;
    wouldn't it be wonderful if they came up for a cure for this disease!
    
                                      - Andrea

			1984 Yearbook of Agriculture
                                Animal Health
                              Livestock and Pets
  
Infectious Peritonitis

  This disease was first seen in the early 1950's in various parts
  of the United States and named in 1966.  The disease has been reported 
  throughout North America.

  Cause of feline infectious peritonitis is a coronavirus.  Coronavirus
  infections are relatively common in domestic cats both the majority of these 
  infections do not produce signs of disease.

  Feline infectious peritonitis affects cats of all ages, although
  the prevalence is highest in animals one to two years old.  There
  appears to be no apparent breed predispostion.  Initial exposure to the
  virus may result in mild respiratory disease as indicated by runny
  eyes and nose.

  The majority of cats with this mild respiratory disease recover, with some
  of them serving as carriers of the virus.  An even smaller number
  of cats will not recover but experience the primary disease.  The viral
  infection spreads from an infected cat to a susceptible cat by direct
  contact.

TWO FORMS:  The disease occurs in two forms.  In one form the abdomen
  and chest accumulates fluid as part of the infection.  As a result
  the cat experience fever, reluctance to eat, depression and weight loss.

  As body cavities continue to fill with the fluid, organ systems will
  become compromised and cause signs of specific organ failure such as
  jaundice from severe liver involvement or breathing problems from fluid
  pressing on the lungs.  Eventually the disease process becomes so
  extensive the cats die of organ failure.

  The other form of feline infectious peritonitis is more insidious 
  and frequently is associated with involvement of specific organs.  
  Signs of kidney and/or liver failure, pancreatic disease, and nervous 
  system disease may be observed in cats with severe organ impairment.

  Lesions affecting the infected the infected cat's eyes are very common
  and may be the first signs of a problem seen with the disease.

  In both forms the disease process becomes so extensive that affected
  cats die of organ failure.

  The mechanisms of disease with feline infectious peritonitis have been
  studied for many years but the explanation as to how an infected cat 
  recovers or develops one or the other form of disease is not well
  understood.

  The coronavirus may serve as a stimulater of the body immune system
  which leads to immune complexes being formed.  These complexes then
  collect in blood vessels in the various body organs and cause severe
  vascular damage to occur.

  Organ failures occur as a result of the complexes damaging the blood
  vessels and interfering with vital organ functions.  Also, the 
  coronavirus has the capability of altering various parts of the immune
  system-causing either the fluid accumulation or forms of the disease
  in which specific organs are attacked.

DIAGNOSIS of feline infectious peritonitis is mad by evaluation of history
  and signs of disease and the results of supportive laboratory tests.
  Considering the grave prognosis associated with diagnosis of this disease
  and the lack of curative therapy, it is essential to differentiate the
  disease from other common conditions with similar symptoms.

  Laboratory tests used include analysis of chest and abdominal fluids,
  measurements of total serum proteins, clinical chemistry profiles, and
  serum coronaviral antibody titer and biopsies of affected organs.

  Routine immunization against feline infectious peritonitis is not possible
  currently.  Newly acquired cats can be tested for coronaviral antibodies.
  Tested cats that are negative for coronaviral antibodies 3 to 4 weeks
  apart are considered free of infection.  Only those cats that test 
  coronaviral antibody negative should be used for breeding.

  Cats that test positive for coronaviral antibody should be evaluated
  periodically for development of disease and should not be used for 
  breeding. Breeding these cats may result in fetal resorptions occurring
  at 4 to 6 weeks of gestation, birth of weak kittens, abortions at mid
  to late gestation, and stillbirth. Once disease is established in the cat
  no curative therapy is presently known.

    Thank you for entering that.  Has there been
    any new information discovered about FIP in
    the 4-5 years since this was published?
    
    Donna

    FIP is one of the feline diseases whose research is being funded
    by the Robert H. Winn Foundation.
    
    Jo

So, if we contribute to the Silver Lining fund we will helping in the
battle against FIP!!!

	It is with great sadness that I have to tell you that we had
	Sebastian put to sleep tonight.  Upon coming home from work we found
	him unable to stand on his own power.  His stomach was bloated, and
	we decided that the only humane thing to do was to put him to sleep.

	He was a wonderful kitty.  Those who knew him know that this is
	an understatement.  He will be greatly missed.

					-- Geoff

    I am sorry, Goeff.  I'll add Sebastian's name to the Silver
    Lining Memorial Gift for this Quarter.  
       You did the right thing.  And you did something that takes
    alot of strength and love.  Its hard sometimes to do what's
    best for the other when we really want to keep them with us.
    Sebastian has alot of kitty companions to keep him company
    where he is now.
    
       I hope that you'll consider getting another feline companion
    soon.  A new kitty can never be the same as Sebastian, and each
    one has its own unique gifts for you.  Sebasitan taught you how
    much a cat can offer.  I hope you'll carry that lesson on by
    giving another kitty a home when you're ready.
      

         If there's anything I can do, please let me know.
    
                                       - Andrea
    

    Geoff, I am very sorry to hear about Sebastian.  He will always be with
    you in your heart.  Sebastian must have been a wonderful cat to have been
    able to change your mind about cats in general.                           
    
    Jo
    

	As you've said, there will never be another Sebastian.  And that's one
	of the things that hurts the most.  I've been alergic to cats for as
	long as I can remember.  As a result I never really got to know them.
	My friends had them, but everytime I went over to their houses, I would
	suffer with runny, itchy eyes and sneezing.  Then I met my SO, and she
	and her new kitty came to live wth me.  I must admit that the cat was
	a major problem in my mind.  

	But Sebastian was the warmest cat that I could imagine.  He *loved* 
        to be held and petted.  (He didn't like acrobatics very much, but
	would put up with them!  :-)  Little by little my allergies went 
        away and my love for him grew.  I loved coming home and having him 
	sitting by the door waiting for me.  And I loved it when he couldn't 
	decide who he wanted to be petted by, and kept running between Sherry 
	and myself!

	But now I'm only left with his memories.  I know that we'll get another
	cat.  It'll be a little while for various reasons.  I've learned a lot
	about myself and the fragilty of life during this.  I thank God that I
	have my life and health and that it was "only" a cat that died.  
	
	Once again, thank you for your thoughts.  

							-- Geoff

    Geoff,
    
    Best of everything to you and Sherry.  It sounds like Sabastian had a
    wonderful life with you.  It's so good to know that he lived with a
    family in which one of his big decisions was who he should let pet him
    and love him.
    
    My thoughts are with you,
    
    Jill

    
    
    Geoff, I'm sorry to hear of your loss and if there is anything I
    can do or if you just feel like talking, please don't hesitate.
    
    Warmest wishes and hugs,
    
    Roslyn, Escho and Brandy

    
    
    Andrea,
    
    Hope that Bigfoot and Loki are doing better.  In the pictures you
    sent, they seemed to be quite the characters!  My hopes and prayers
    are with you all. If you'd like to talk, give me a buzz.
    
    Roslyn, Escho and Brandy

         Thanks, Roslyn.  The crew is acting quite normal, so we're hoping
    it's a false alarm.  We'll find out in a couple months.  Until then, we
    are trying to keep our spirits up and keep them from feeling the
    frustration that we are feeling.
    
                                           - Andrea

    
    Hi,
    
    My name is Mike  and I have just started to read these notes because
    a few days ago we were told that it looks like our cat Misty has
    FIP. She had been acting tired and about 1 1/2 weeks ago she just
    started to sleep an awful lot. We took her to the Hudson Animal
    Clinic. They found lesions in here eyes and also found that she
    was blind in one of her eyes. They took blood. They found her slightly
    anemic and she had a high hemagobulin count. They said the anemia could
    be due to her being ill for a while and that the high hemagobulin
    count was due to her fighting something off. The FIP came back last
    Saturday high at 1:2048. At that time they felt it was FIP. All
    the other tests had come back normal.
    
    She has been eating very well and has stayed pretty stable. The
    doctor put her on an antibiotic the day they took the blood in case
    it was an infection of some sort. He feels that if the antibiotic
    hasn't helped that there is no use continuing it, but that in SOME
    cases prednisone, a steroid, can help because it will reduce the
    inflammation and relieve the symptoms, for a while.
    
    Has anyone heard of this treatment with steroids ? Misty hasn't
    shown any of the bloating symptoms, at least yet. Has anyone had
    a cat with these symptoms that didn't have FIP ? Also, the vet didn't
    do a leukemia test becuase Misty had one in January. Does leukemia
    show any of these symtoms ?
    
    One other thing. Misty got pretty sick about three weeks after her
    yearly check in January up at which time she got a leukemia vaccine.
    She "recovered" after about 3-4 weeks later but I never felt felt she 
    recovered fully. She never got all her energy back. 
    
    Well, any help would be appreciated. I have already read several
    notes on FIP and all they do is scare the hell out of me. Misty
    seems very tired, but doesn't seem to be in pain. 
    
    Mike
    
   

    Mike,
    
    I am sorry to hear about Misty being ill.  I am going to pass on
    some information to you that your vet will probably deny
    wholeheartedly.  I have no evidence to prove the information that
    I am giving you as no studies have been done yet.
    
    I know of at least 10 breeders who will no longer guarantee a kitten's 
    health against FIP *if* the new owners choose to vaccinate the kitten 
    with Leukemia vaccine.  Many others are following suit.  It seems
    that breeders are noticing an uncanny relationship between kittens
    dying of FIP, and the leukemia vaccine.  So far, no studies have
    been done that will prove or disprove a relationship.  Of course,
    the whole thing could be due to mere coincidence.  But it seems
    odd to me that a high percentage of the kittens that I know of who
    have died of FIP, where also vaccinated against leukemia.
    
    FIP is a difficult disease to deal with.  Not very much is known
    about it.  The titer that you indicate would not seem high to some
    doctors, but would seem terribly high to others.  I have seen cats
    with higher titers than that who are completely healthy.  No one
    seems to know what to do about this disease.
    
    Is Misty an indoor/outdoor cat?  Is she a purebred?
    
    Maybe we could gather information in this file that would help us
    all understand this disease.
    
    Jo

    
    Jo,
    
    Misty is an indoor cat. Hasn't been in contact with another cat
    for about 3 years at which time we tried to board her with my
    parents, that have two cats, both of which appear healthy. I
    have heard about silent carriers. The vet thinks she could have
    picked it up from here mother or other brothers and sisters. We
    got Misty from an animal shelter in Lancaster about four years 
    ago.  He thought that that was another possibility. I got the 
    feeling he thought that getting a pet from a shelter wasn't 
    particularly safe.
    
    The theory you mention about the leukemia vaccine is interesting
    because I was wondering if her last visit, in which she got the
    vaccine, was the start of this whole episode. I'm going to talk
    to the vet today, and I'll be sure to ask him about it.
    
    I believe I've noticed some improvement in Misty lately, especially
    yesterday. She was much more active then usual and she did some
    things that she hasn't been doing as of late. I don't know if the
    course of this illness goes up and down but I will mention it to
    the vet and see what he has to say.
    
    Thanks for the info.
    
    Mike

Hi Mike,

     Our boys have FIP and, yes, it is a very strange disease.  They've gone 
from having titers of 1:2048 to 1:4096 and back down to 1:2048.  The old one,
Bigfoot, has been in the hospital twice for listlessness, grumpiness (the "I
don't feel good, leave me the h*ll alone" type) and not eating/drinking; both
times he has made it with intravenous fluid and, the last time, extracting a
tiny bit of fluid from his abdomen.  His "brother", Loki, hasn't been in yet,
but we're keeping a watch on both of them.  If nothing else, this disease is
making us both paranoid whenever they do the least little thing abnormal ;-) !

     Bigfoot shows it more, with his ups and down, than Loki, but both of their
titers are identical.  As long as they're eating, drinking, going to the bath-
room and playing, we assume that they are okay.  If they stop more than one of
these things for longer than a day or so, we start getting suspicious.

     That's interesting about the vaccine.  So what are we poor kitty owners
supposed to do, I wonder?  We vaccinate against one disease, only to possibly
cause another!  It's as bad as cat food!

     Hang in there, Mike.  We figure we're living with little "time bombs", 
so we enjoy every day we are fortunate enough to have them happy and healthy.

                                        - Andrea

    Vaccines are also controversial with humans.  At this point, in
    the United States, using usually live vaccine, the risks seem greater
    in getting the disease from the vaccine than from natural sources.
    
    My (two-legged) children aren't vaccinated.  I'm quite ambivalent
    about this, and I know people who lived during FDR's adminstration
    are quite rightfully terrified of polio, but ....
    
    My mother has a saying, "You pays yer money and you takes yer cherse."
    [choice]  Such decisions don't make raisng children with any number
    of legs an easy proposition.
    
    						-- Ed

re: -1

There are two types of polio vaccine, one made with live virus AND the
one made with killed virus, aren't there?  I saw a special concerning
the controversy surrounding the Salk vaccine vs. the other one on PBS
a few months ago.  The program also mentioned that polio is coming back
in some parts of the U.S....

Well, I'm really glad I don't have to worry about two-legged children,
but after what Jo said, my four-legged kids are not getting any more
feline leukemia vaccine.  I've never been comfortable with it anyway
because they say it sometimes doesn't work - and my four are never
around other cats - we'll just take this calculated risk until I hear
much better news.  I've always had the feeling that this vaccine is
being tested on the general public's pets and I don't like that one
bit....I want my cats' medicines to be tested BEFORE they get to us. 

    If you do ask Misty's vet about the relationship between the leukemia
    vaccine and FIP, be prepared for him to be angry, deny a relationship,
    and want to know who told you that.  I know because I have asked
    several vets about it.  The only one who thinks there might be
    something to it is Nels Pederson of UC - Davis.  I saw him speak
    once and one of the breeders in the audience asked him about it.
    
    No one is doing any studies on it right now, and I suspect because
    the vets don't believe that there may be a relationship.  It is
    the vet's that have to come up with the topics to research, then
    they present them to organizations like the Winn Foundation for
    grants.  The Winn Foundation would probably support the study
    wholeheartedly since so many breeders are concerned.  But, so far,
    no one wants to study this.  
    
    The breeders that I know of that are no longer guaranteeing against
    FIP if the kitten is leukemia vaccinated are not all in my area.
    One is in Michigan, one is Virginia, and three in Washington (state).
    The rest are out here.  
    
    On the titer, I know a cat that was titered at 1:2048 a few months
    ago, but was completely healthy, and is now 1:512.  Just hang in
    there, and like Andrea says, take it one day at a time.  But, if
    Misty does start acting sick, don't waste any time in getting her
    to the vet.
    
    From what I know, there are two types of FIP, dry form and wet form.
    The wet form is easier to diagnose since eventually the lungs, or
    abdomen will fill with fluid.  
    
    I have been told that Dr. Pederson at UC - Davis is the authority
    on FIP, so maybe you will want to contact him for more information
    about FIP.  I have a few articles about it, but they are mostly
    about how FIP can affect breeding colonies, and such.
    
    Good Luck,
    
    Jo
    

    I'm going through this right now with Kirby... to vaccinate or not
    to vaccinate.  On one hand I feel I should as three of my cats are
    indoor/outdoor, but on the other hand I, too, am afraid of the risks
    involved.  And to top it all off, my vet has recently switched over
    to the Covenant vaccine which I'm leary about.  He claims they have
    had only one mild reaction in the year they've been using it versus
    lots of serious reactions in cats they had vaccinated with leukocell.
    I'm just not convinced that the vaccine is effective, yet if Kirby
    ends up coming down with felv, I'll kick myself forever.
    
    Incidentally, at Kirby's last vet visit, the Dr. told me that the 
    leading felv specialist at Tufts (Susan ____? [can't think of
    her last name]), feels the vaccine offers less than 50% protection
    from the disease.
    
    I have to give the situation some serious thought and decide what
    to do about Kirby.  It's not an easy decision to make.
    
    
    -R.
    

    Yes, Europeans feel killed virus is safer than live for vaccine.
    I've seen some ads for feline vaccines, and I _think_ they're killed.
    
    						-- Ed

    Dr. Neils Pedersen is the expert especially on FIV, the kitty
    AIDS.  He is very prominent in many other areas of feline
    medicine.
    
    However, Dr. Jeff Barlow at the Feline Center at Cornell's
    Veterinary school in NY specializes in FIP.  He is very
    helpful, and will spend a lot of time on the phone if you
    have questions.  He will point out that FIP is a very 
    difficult disease to diagnose (prior to death), and the
    blood titres can be *very* misleading.  For example, there
    is cross-reactivity in the testing so that other Corona viruses
    can cause a high FIP titre.  And vaccinations *can* cause
    false high FIP titres. <Maybe they aren't false after all,
    given what Jo has said about the FeLV vaccine.  But other
    vaccines can temporarily inflate the FIP titres as well as
    the antibody levels for the vaccinated-disease.>
    
    Good luck!
    		Pennie

    Most cat vaccines are given in modified live form.  Killed vaccines
    are available, but I have had more reactions, and feel that they
    offer less protection against disease.   The upper respiratory vaccines
    are available in both forms, except for the pneumonitis vaccine.
    I believe that it is not currently available in the killed form.
    
    Leukemia vaccine is neither killed nor modified live.  It is in
    some type of altered form so that it cannot cause leukemia itself.
    I don't know enough about it to be able to explain it here.
    
    I have vaccinated all of my household pets with the felv vaccine,
    and I also did Kyrielle, one of my breeding queens.  I have not
    seen any reactions, and none of them show any signs of FIP nor any
    titers.  But, they all recieved the vaccine as adults, and not as
    kittens.  Also, FIP, in most cases, attacks kittens and cats under
    the age of one year.  This is also the age that most kittens and
    cats are being vaccinated.
    
    Most of the kittens that I know of that have died of FIP *and* were
    leukemia vaccinated, received their leukemia vaccine as kittens.
    
    I think that the leukemia vaccine is a useful vaccine, and will
    continue to boost those cats in my house who are currently vaccinated.
    But, I will not be vaccinating any of my new cats for leukemia.
    All of my cats are indoor only, and are exposed only to each other.
    All the cats receive annual blood tests for leukemia, and the breeding
    cats are tested more frequently than that.  
    
    Those people that have indoor/outdoor cats will have to weigh the
    risk themselves, but if I was in that situation, I would still get
    the leukemia vaccines for my cats.  The reason, felv is rampant
    in the stray cat population and the risks of catching it are probably
    higher than the risk of your cat getting FIP after the vaccination.
    Also, if the cat is outside, it may be exposed to FIP out there
    anyway.  I feel that the 50% protection rate that some vets feel
    the leukemia vaccine offers is still better than 0% protection (or
    not vaccinating).
    
    I sure would like to see some studies done about FIP and the felv
    vaccine.  FIP has traditionally been blamed on the breeding community.
    It seems odd to find that not only purebred cats can be sticken
    with this disease.  I guess I am being conditioned by the veterinary
    community.  Whenever anything strange comes up (with my Birmans
    or with other people's purebred cats) , the vet almost always says 
    that it must be FIP.  I have been given the FIP "scare" many a time.
    In most cases it turned out to be something simple and curable.
    
    But, take heart, we have seen other cats drop their titers, and
    we will all be praying for Misty to drop hers.  The hardest part
    about FIP is that not much is known about it.
    
    Jo

    
    Misty is still doing ok. I've been trying to get in touch with Dr.
    Barlow to answer some of my questions but no one answers the phone.
    I'll keep trying. Thanks everybody for all the replies. I'll keep 
    you posted.
    
    Mike

    
    Misty is till ok. I got in touch with Dr Barlow today. He is
    now in Los Angeles ! He told me a couple of interesting things.
    No, unfortunately there is no new wonder treatment. But, in
    my opening note I had asked if anyone knew about treating the
    illness with prednisone. My vet told me it was used as a last
    resort and might help some of the symptoms. Dr. Barlow said it
    was the STANDARD treatment. He also said that it could help 
    the symptoms and in some cats it could lead to a remission.
    
    I also asked him about the leukemia issue that has been talked
    about in this note. He had heard of it but said there were no
    official results. He said there were some studies going on.
    His idea of the way the leukemia vaccine could cause fip was
    that the vaccine weakened the cats immune system allowing the
    fip to get a hold. An indirect cause but a cause nonetheless.

    He seemed like a very nice person and wished me good luck. 
    As soon as I got off the phone I gave Misty a dose of the
    prednisone that was supposed to ba a last resort.
    
    Mike

    Wow! Mike!  I am impressed with this Doc!  He didn't belittled you
    for bringing up the felv vaccine issue.  Also, the news that the
    prednisone was the standard treatment is good too.  Glad you got
    Misty right on it.  
    
    It is also interesting that he knows of studies about the FIP/vaccine
    issue.  Someone must be listening to us breeders after all.
    
    Let's hope that they figure out this vaccine problem fast, so we
    can all rest easier.
    
    Thanks for finding out about it for us.
    
    Jo