Conference misery::feline_v1

    Why an EKG?  I believe that the symptoms Cocoa has *can* be
    indicative of cardiomyopathy.  Don't panic yet.  I'm sure
    your vet is just playing it safe.
    
    Donna
    

    Donna -- is that a thickening of the muscle?  Does that mean he
    would tire easily?  He seems to at this point.  What could be done
    in this case?
    
    Bj
    

    There are two types of cardiomyopathy that I know of.  One is
    HYPERTROPHIC, the other is DILATATIVE.  One involves thickening
    of the muscle, the other involves thinning of the muscle wall.
    I don't know off the top of my head which is which.  ONE of
    these types of cardiomyopathy has been recently linked to
    taurine deficiency in the diet and treatment for it has been
    very successful.  I don't know much about the other one.
    
    To answer your question, yes, he would tire easily.  I feel as
    though I've incited more panic and concern in you than I intended.
    When will he be going in for his tests?  I'm sure your vet would
    be more than happy to talk with you about this.  I feel I'd be
    out of my bounds and over my head to try and answer your question
    about what could be done.  I can get some information from my
    book, Diseases of the Cat, and enter it if you'd like, but I'd
    feel most comfortable if you would rely first and foremost on your 
    vet for the most accurate and up-to-date information.
    
    Please keep us posted.
    
    Donna
    

    I have seen my cats pant, but only in the summer or after unusual
    exertion - for example, we took Mao for a walk on the leash through
    the Braintree conservation area. Since she is primarily an indoor
    cat and also 9 yrs old I kept a close eye on her for signs of
    tiring.  As soon as she started to pant, we stopped for a "breather".
    This didn't start until well into the walk (or trot in her case)
    and not only seemed perfectly reasonable given the amount of work
    she'd done, but stopped very quickly after we stopped.  
      So cats do pant, but not as often as dogs.
        Let us know what happens.
    

    Long ago, I had entered a note here (1984?) about a Maine Coon
    I had gotten at a local so called breeder, who very quickly went
    out of business for her very poor quality kittens. Anyway, part
    of the problem had been the health of the kittens, one of the
    serious problems I encountered was lungworm.  The poor babe had
    it pretty bad and panting was one of the symptoms. The slightest
    exertion would result in a kitty that had to sit and take a breather.
    Because lungworm can be difficult to detect, it wasn't until he
    threw one up that we realized that was it. Luckily this was real
    soon after I had gotten him, but I guess he must have had it since
    he was born, as the damage was so bad that to this day, he cannot
    exercise without tiring within seconds, and breathes ssoooo loud.
       So, has he been coughing like he's trying to throw something
    up or clear his throat? If so, it could be that also. I sure hope
    not!
    
                                   Denise

    Please let us know what the results of the EKG, etc. are.
    

    Denise -- I think you've hit the nail on the head.  I forgot to
    tell the vet that he's CONSTANTLY coughing like he's trying to
    throw up but he bites at Whiskie so much (pulls her hair out
    by the roots) so thought he'd gotten some of her fur in his
    throat.  But now, when I recall, a lot of the coughing times
    he's just been laying there after playing.  Poor baby ...
    when he has those coughing spells his heart races so quickly.
    
    I really bet you're right.  Am calling at 2:00 this afternoon
    to see how his blood chems turned out and will then tell the
    vet about his coughing spells.
    
    Thanks everyone.  Will keep you posted.  You're all just great!
    
    Bj
    

    Is lungworm a worm or a fungus (as ringworm actually is)?
    I suspect it's a mycotic disease, but I'm not really sure.
    
    Donna

    
    It might not being anything so serious at all.  My cat had the exact
    same symptoms as you are describing.  When exrayed, they found a
    ruptured diaphram.  They said that I didn't have to operate, that
    he would just act sort of asthmatic from the pressure of the lower
    intestines on the check cavity (lungs, heart).  The procedure costs
    about $200.00.  I opted to have it done because of the possibility
    of the lower intestines tangling with the upper organs.  They have 
    better than a nintey percent success.  They just go in and sew the 
    diaphram shut.  My poor things died of post op infections, but he
    was the exception, not the norm.  I would do it again if it happened.
    I'm not suggesting that it is a ruptured diaphram, only that it
    is not always something awful.  Alot of symptoms mimic more serious
    conditions.
    
    Best of luck,
    
    Sarah

    Has anyone ever had experience with their cat panting for reasons
    other than the ones previously mentioned?  TJ has also panted on
    occasion, but not after exercise or heavy playing.  He seems to
    do it when he's very upset - when I take him to the vet he gets
    really agitated, and sometimes he'll start to pant while I'm holding
    him.  It's almost as if he's so scared he's hyperventilating.  Whatever
    it is, I find it VERY disturbing to watch because there isn't anything
    I can do for him except try to calm him down.
    
    Anyone else have any experiences with "neurotic" panting?
    
    Lauren
          

      Yes, the old P & P syndrone,  pant and panic.  Some cats do
    react that way, especially when heading for the V E T.

    Sounds alot like the Birman "huff".  Birmans have a habit of huffing
    when they are upset or angry.  They blow their cheeks out and expel
    a burst of air at the same time.                                   
    
    Jo

    Lauren-
    
    The only time I ever tried to give Norman a flea bath he was panting--
    I thought he was going to collapse on me he got so upset.
    
    Michelle

    My cats will pant when scared, and I have also found Sneakers
    (my long-hair) panting when our apartment is set on "broil"
    in the summer.  When I see that, I get scared and put him in
    the room with the AC right away.  I heard that it's very
    dangerous for cats to pant in the heat - is that true?
    
    Pam

    Trouble did the panic pant bit the last time I had her in to the
    vet.  I think in her case it's because she does *NOT* like to ride
    in the car.  Every time we go to the vet I feel like I need the
    tranquilizer because she cries and cries the whole way there.  I just 
    figured it went along with having a neurotic cat.  
    
    Bernice
    Mother_of_Trouble

    Nikolas does the panting bit as the last phase of his macho routine
    that he goes into everytime he sees another cat or dog in the yard.
    I thought he was hyperventilating.

    Deb 

    Before everyone gets really worried it is perfectly normal for a
    cat to pant.  Just like dogs it is a way of cooling the body down
    after strenuous exertion.
    
    You just have to take it in context, if the cat pants for no obvious
    reason then there may be something wrong.  Re panting on the way
    to the vets it may just be that the car/box is too warm.
    
    I found it embarrasing at the vets that my two gave off handfuls
    of hair - looked as though I hadn't groomed them for months.  The
    vet said that hair shedding is a normal panic reaction and he was
    quite used to it from his feline visitors.
    
    Hope the basenote cat checks out OK.

    re: going to the vets   Mao always leaves a cloud of calico fur
    at the vets, Bumpy drools when upset and the last few times has
    gotten car-sick on the way home (poor kitty).  I wish all she did
    was pant!
      Nancy

    Dream huddles on the vet's table and sheds, and sheds and sheds.....
    You'd never think she bosses everyone around at home!
    
    Mary-Michael

Anything new on this front?  I'd particularly like to hear from the base    
note author as to how this turned out.

I inherited a Norwegian Forest Cat last weekend.  My mother's friend got
him as a kitten from a pet store last winter and decided to give him to 
me on a trial basis since she no longer wants him.  She has no papers on
him and I don't think there's any way to trace his lineage.  He's an
absolutely marvelous kitten (about 11 months old) but he pants very easily.
After 5 minutes of strenuous activity with the Kitty Tease he really pants.
When my cats were kittens, it took 30 minutes of teasing to see any
panting.  Other than that, he seems quite healthy.

I have an appointment to bring him to the vet tomorrow morning to be
checked over.  He's been fixed and had most shots (he never quite made
it through the entire FeLV series, but he tested negative and hasn't been
exposed since).  Just curious if there are other causes of panting that
should be investigated, or if there might be a problem with inbreeding
that causes this (I would assume that a purebred offered at a pet store
would not be the result of the most rigorous breeding program).

Pam

    Pam,
    
    I have seen the panting in cats that survived a very bad upper
    respiratory infection as kittens.  The URI can cause them to have
    trouble breathing as kittens, and can be painful.  Just like some
    asthma sufferers, they can sometimes lose some lung capacity by
    not breathing deeply enough.  
    
    Or, it could be that he is not used to strenuous exercise.  
    
    Let us know what you find out.
    
    Jo
    
    PS - I have never heard of panting as being a sign of inbreeding.
    Also, most of the associations that accept Wegies for registration
    only require three generations of Wegie to Wegie breeding, therefore
    they wouldn't be forced to inbreed, they could breed to unregistered
    cats, etc. if the gene pool was small.

Well, Orson and I spent the morning at Angell Memorial getting
a chest x-ray and it seems he has a slightly enlarged heart, 
but his lungs look fine.  Unfortunately, the cardiologist there
wasn't in today, so we're going back at the end of the month
for Dr. Harpster to give Orson a complete cardiac exam and
echocardiogram.  An enlarged heart can mean many things:
heart infection, cardiomyopathy, something wrong with the
heart structure, etc.  We'll have to wait and see.

I've just read everything I can find on this in my various cat
books and in this file and I guess I'm not very worried right
now that this is extremely serious.  Orson is a very healthy
cat in all regards except that he pants easily when exercising
or when nervous.  He doesn't have any other symptoms of those
other diseases.  He is still young (just 15 months), so it
may be a progressive thing.  We'll have to see.

Pam

    Pam, please enter anything you can find out.  I'm still very interested
    in learning more about heart diseases in cats since I lost Shelby
    last year.  Two other cats of his line have also been diagnosed
    with problems, though they were caught early and brought under control
    with medication.
    
    I hope Orson will be okay and that this is not a progressive thing.
    Keep us posted on his progress.
    
    
    --Roberta
    

    Pam,
    
    You may want to contact Pennie Greene (GLINKA::GREENE) to talk to her. 
    She has a little Russian Blue that underwent heart surgery.
    
    cin
    

    As I mentioned in another note, I recommend Dr. Harpster VERY HIGHLY.
    Is your appointment at the end of the month because he is away,
    or there is no earlier appointment.  (If the latter, check with
    his secretary Doris to see if they think your cat should be seen
    sooner...she has been very helpful to us on many occasions...you
    might even want to tell her I suggested you call her:  refer to
    me as "Pennie Greene, whose 3 month old Russian Blue had PDA surgery
    last year" -- they remember that because it is so rare in cats.)
    
    We were lucky that our regular vet, Dr. Elston at Boston Cat Hospital,
    heard something suspicious at the 12 week check-up, and he sent
    us right over to Dr. Harpster.  HopeyCat looked fine to me, but
    already, his heart and lungs were enlarged due to having to work
    extra hard because of the problem.  He is now completely normal,
    and has become the sweetest cat in the house.
    
    Even though he turned out to be a real show-winner, I had him
    neutered.  They are pretty sure that the problem is not inherited,
    but I didn't feel right using him as a breeder, just to be on the
    safe side.  Sigh...he is *so* pretty...would've made nice babies.
    
    Good luck, and tell Dr. Harpster that Blue Hope and I say "hello"!
    
    	Pennie

Orson's appointment was last Friday with Dr. Harpster and the diagnosis
is an overdynamic left ventricle.  What this means is that this particular
heart chamber is slightly enlarged, beats too fast, and beats too strong.
It is currently not cardiomyopathy (*phew*) but might over time develop
into hypertrophic cardiomyopathy.  Basically, we will watch it and see 
how it develops.  I guess that right now it's mild enough that Dr. Harpster 
couldn't even say for certain that this is what causes the panting.

Poor little Orson had an EKG, ultrasound (where they had to shave his
chest), various blood tests, and other indignities as well and he never
even complained.  I couldn't believe how good he was and all the technicians
said he was the best behaved cat they'd ever seen.  I was really very
proud of him.

Not all of the test results are back either.  It's possible the problem
is due to hyperthyroidism (which he is being tested for), although Dr.
Harpster has never seen that in a cat under 7 years old.  I'm also waiting
for results of a complete blood count which would indicate whether he is
anemic.  He might also have high blood pressure.

Turns out that there are various drugs available that prolong the life
of a cat with cardiomyopathy, if his condition turns into that.  I asked 
if cardiomyopathy is hereditary and Dr. Harpster said that it is definitely
hereditary in humans, but they have been unable to show any links in cats
either way.

I'd like to thank everyone who has responded with interest and sympathy
so far.  I'd really like to thank Deb who drove us down there on Friday.
I've had the flu for the past 3 weeks and we wouldn't have been able to
keep the appointment without her help.

Pam

    pam...
    
    what a little trooper orson is!  hang in there, baby, we're all pulling
    for you...
    
    diane, stella & stanley
    

    Gee, I hope he's ok - we are ALL thinking of ya.
    
    E.T. + 18 kids
    

    So far so good.  Hang in there.
      Nancy DC