Conference misery::feline_v1

    I Bandit was 2 1/2 when I introduced Smokey.  She hiss ed, spat
    and lived in the closet.  She would not eat in the same room and
    she would not use the litter box while smokey was anywhere but 
    around the corner in the kitchen.  If she was on the porch in the
    litter box and he came out she would crouch in a corner until she
    judged the situation was just safe enough if she ran as fast as
    she could to get by him.  He was probably under 6 weeks as I rescued
    hiim.
     
    Solution:  What worked for me was to use Bonkers for treats, but
    both cats had to be present.  I would give one to Smokey as soon
    as Bandit neared the edge of the room.  I would get out another
    one and rattle the box again and again etc,  Finally Bandit would
    come in grab and run.  Smokey meanwhile would be going nuts for
    another bonker which he would get  - very out in the open so Bandit
    would see.  Finally she would stick close enough for the second
    one - although Smokey was sometimes fast enouh to get hers from
    her.
    
    It took about three weeks before Bandit really tolerated him.  The
    early stages were things like he could gradually get in the same
    room and play with his toys.  Then, because he was a kitten, he
    discovered her tail - which did not go over awfully well.
    
    The end of the story is that they are inseperable.  Of course, I
    was only introducing 1 and that has a lot to do with it.
    
    One funny side:  When Smokey was 3 months old we moved to Maine
    and were in temporary housing.  The landlord downstairs where we
    lived until the house was ready, had been given two kittens.  Before
    that time Smokey and Bandit were encouraged to come down and visit.
    Bandid, being shy never went, lbut smokey did often during the day
    andthey would trough paper for him to catch etc.  He really enjoyed
    it.  Well ...... one day their daughter, who saw how they enjoyed
    Smokey gave them 2 kittens.  That night I went down for a chat and
    Smokey followed.  He came in as usual and started over to the landlord
    and on the way met a kitten, that until that moment he had not noticed.
    He hissed and spat and snarled and growled and I removed him since
    it was not his home, but the kittens.  But we all laughed, because
    he at 3 months was nearly as tall as Bandit and he was terrified
    of the piece of fluff.
    
    In a roundabout way, I am saying that it is normal.  And still might
    work out with some animal psychology - hopefully with 2!  Keep us
    posted and good luck.
    
    Cathy, Bandit & Smokey

    Do Sheba and Sunshine get along well?  If so, you may want to keep
    Sheba and find a home for Samson.  Being only 11 weeks, he will
    adjust to another home and will forget all about Sheba.  And Sheba,
    without the influence from Samson will be more drawn to Sunshine
    as her friend.  
    
    I would try this before giving up on both of them.  Good luck and
    I hope everything works out!
    
    Jeanne, Cali and Sam
    

    Regarding your problem about sleeping, I put my new kittens in a
    bedroom of their own and shut the door at night, this allows your
    sleep to be uninterupted.  Since there are two kittens they don't
    get lonely.  It took awhile for my other full grown cats to ajust
    but they did except one and she just stays out of the way.
    
    If the kittens get to close to one of the older cats they let them
    know.  Give it a little more time, as long as no one is really being
    hurt physically try a little longer they might suprise you.
    
    Cindy and her brood of six

    
    
    	I only brought one kitten home to Brandi and yes, she
    	did the usual routine of hissing, etc.  After about a month
    	I was beginning to wonder if she would ever accept Sasha.
    	But I am happy to say that they now cuddle together, sleep
    	together and clean each other.....like the other replies
    	said...just give Sunshine time....she'll come around.
    
    	Judy
    

    Well, unfortunately, it's way past the stage of giving them some
    more time.  My husband's (and mine too!) patience have been tried
    a bit much--I do put them in a bedroom together to sleep, but even
    with all the doors closed, you can hear them running and frolicking
    for a good hour before they settle to sleep.  This happened just
    last nite.  I was up with them until 2:00 a.m.  Also, we can't afford
    to throw away thousands of dollars which we spent on furnishing
    our new home just six months ago.  They are all over our new tables,
    white sofas, etc., they love our cane back chairs! I've tried covering
    the furniture, but they think blankets, etc. are fun and they go
    underneath and still attack the furniture.
    
    So, unfortunately, they do have to go.  Either that, or my husband
    will!
    

    I hope you find a new home for the kittens.  It looks like
    kittens were not the right choice for you.  How about
    considering an older companion for Sunshine?  I'm sure that
    a shelter or even this file might have a cat suitable for
    you and Sunshine.  At least with an older cat, you can get
    some information about their temperament, etc.  You might
    even find an older declawed cat.  That would alleviate
    your anxiety about the furniture.  Please consider it.
    
    Donna

    Well, another wonderful week-end has gone by with the little terrorists
    (as my husband calls them!).  The only time they are out of trouble
    is when they're asleep.  It's to the point where we can't leave
    ANYTHING on the open.  (there's only so many things I can hide,
    besides, who has the room?).  We almost lost a crystal vase, a crystal
    dish, wedding pictures, need I say more.  The crystal vase was holding
    some lovely flowers my husband brought me; I even put them on top
    of the refrigerator! But Samson, especially, manages to get there
    with no problem.  He has no limits--Sheba's not far behind him.
    
    If anyone knows of a home for these little guys, please let me know.
    My husband is ready for the MSPCA or Debby's Pet land.  
    
    

    Sounds normal to me!  I do brass rather than crystal.  They're worth
    it.
    
    E.T.

    We have had Elmo for 2 1/2 months now.  And, today was the first
    morning that I have woken up and could say "I like Elmo".  Yes --
    Elmo let us sleep all night long without waking us up to tell us
    that he loves us.  I am very proud of Elmo today.  In fact, I am
    going to go out and buy him presents today.  Lots and lots and lots
    of presents.
    
    Last night was the first time I slept since September 3.  In fact,
    I was very nervous this morning that Elmo could have destroyed the
    rest of the house while I was asleep.  But he didn't.  
    
    What worked for us was playing with Elmo before we would go to bed
    at night.  I mean playing and playing and playing and playing and
    playing, etc.  Also, leave lots and lots of food out -- many times
    Elmo would wake us because the food dishes were empty.  Finally,
    we made it a rule that if Elmo started crying at our door, we  would
    look at the clock and wait 5 minutes before we would go open the
    door.  If after 5 minutes Elmo was still crying, we would 1) check
    to make sure there was food, and 2) if there was food, we would
    throw Elmo outside or confine him to the front hallway -- neither
    place that he enjoys that much.
    
    I think the whole key was really ignoring his crying at night, since
    it has only been the past month or so that we started ignoring him
    - and we haven't had to throw him out for about 3 weeks now.
    
    I guess what I'm saying is that you have to decide who makes the
    rules in your house.  It took us a month and a half of sleeples
    nights before we decided that the humans made the rules and the
    cats had to follow the rules.  Many a morning my boyfriend woke
    up screaming "I'm finding a new home for that !)(@*@##&$^% cat today."
    But, we both knew that we couldn't get rid of Elmo since we knew
    that we hadn't made an honest effort to train him to be a good cat.
    So,  now we are both glad that we kept him, cause life would be
    too boring without him.  Elmo is definitely worth those sleeples
    nights that we had.
    
    Maybe give Sheba and Samson another few weeks.  They're still really
    young.  (Elmo is only 7 months)
    
    	-Nancy
    
    BTW -- I gave up trying to save the chrystal when we got Portia
    and Oscar.  I spend all my time trying to save the birds, the fish
    and the lizard. . . 
    

    Life sure is funny.  My husband called me from work yesterday to
    say that he had found a home for Sheba.  If I couldn't give the
    two away to the same family, we had already made our minds up to
    give away Samson and keep Sheba.  So the woman decided that she
    would take Samson.  He told her he would get back to her today with
    an answer, but funny thing is last nite when I got home from work,
    I cried every time I looked at Samson, wondering how he'd like his
    new home and being away from Sheba.  My husband said he was 50/50
    on the idea, as I am also.  We are literally torn about this, we
    love them so much, but we love our home too! Sunshine's personality
    is totally different these last 6 weeks, and not for the better!
    
    It broke my heart this morning because I fell asleep on the sofa
    last nite, and who did I find on top of me this a.m.? Little Sheba
    and Samson all curled up.  
    
    I guess what I'm saying is in our hearts we know we have one cat
    too many (maybe 2, but that's workable).  My husband said he'd go
    into work this morning to check this woman out! (He had only talked
    to her by phone).  He wants to make sure she's normal he said! (My
    hubby is quite a character!)
    
    I just wonder how long I can expect the kitten stage to go on (the
    running like maniacs, climbing onto everything in sight, again,
    this morning, I found my beautiful floor plant lying on it's side
    with the soil all over the rug).  Something tells us that if we
    decide to keep him, by this week-end, we'll be going crazy all over
    again and regret the decision!
    
    

    The first week or two that Black Thunder was with us, she woke me
    up between 2:00 a.m and 5:00 a.m to tell me that she was lonesome,
    hungry and just in the mood for some loving. That stopped for a
    while.  Now she is doing it again.  I really don't mind because
    someday I know she won't be afraid to wake me up if something is
    wrong (like a fire or a prowler or a snake or a bat or . or.)
    
    Besides, I like the way she cuddles.  She hasn't broken anything
    since I got her 4 months ago (bite my tongue).  She gets lots of
    love and attention but sometimes just needs a little more.
    
    Hang in there.  They do grow up and calm down.
    
    Sandi (Lightning, DejaVu & Thunder's mom)
    
    

    There are some things they all like to do, and we have to take
    precautions. Plants are one of those fun toys, and there are many
    suggestions in here about how to enable cat and plant to coexist.
    I agree, however, that they will calm down a bit. I also feel that
    it may take a while, but the elder will eventually get used to the
    younger ones.  Times vary, but they become resigned in most cases.
    
    Gary

    I just went to four.  Nobody's broken anything, they're pretty well
    behaved (Mom spoils them rotten) and except for the one who's living
    underneath the entertainment center, they're getting along well
    enough.  Sometimes it takes a few months for everything to sort
    itself out.  Kittens will calm down too.  I still come home to weirdly
    scattered rugs, shredded paper towels, kinetic litter boxes, etc.
    but those little faces are worth it.
    
    Mary-Michael

    When we first got Koko - she played with everything!  And Mandy and
    Koko kept us awake with their "getting use to each other" routine. A
    few things were broken - so we took everything breakable and put it in
    the second bedroom and closed the door.  The next month we trained Koko
    not to climb on top of the piano (where all our framed pictures were),
    not to climb on the table (where our crystal vases were), not to run
    and slide on the end tables (where our lamps were) and not to go into
    the kitchen sink and take the dish sponge.  I can happily say we have
    trained her to do all of the above except the kitchen sink one, so we
    have to be careful what breakables we leave in the sink.  Sampson and
    Sheba are still so young.  Koko is now 8 months ( I cannot believe it!)
    and is getting so big. She's still a klutz and she's still a snuggle
    bug, but she hasn't broken anything since that first week we got her.
    It just takes time and patience and a little re-arranging of the
    furniture for a few weeks.  They do grow up fast!  Koko is getting
    so big I just cannot believe it!  
    
    And both Mandy and Koko just snuggle us all night now.  Unless it's
    Monday night football night and we hear them running around downstairs.
    My husband lies in bed and says "First and 10, mandy" and you hear
    them rumble, rumble... "Penalty on Mandy for holding - 5 yards"
    rumble, rumble.  As soon as they come upstairs in that kind of mood
    all we have to do now is pretend to get up to shut the door and
    they bolt.  If they make to much noise they don't get to snuggle
    us at night.  And after a rough and tumble game of foot ball they
    want a nice soft bed to sleep on.
    
    I hope it works out for you!  It's not an easy choice to make. 
    But you may be able to keep your sanity if you know it will end
    very shortly...
    
    Suzanne

    Suzanne,
    
    when you finally teach Koko the "don't go in the kitchen sink and
    steal the sponge routine", can you let me know how you do it?  Trashcan
    Elmo needs some lessons in that department. . . 
    
    	-Nancy

    Suzanne,
    
    How on earth did you ever train yours NOT to walk on pianos,
    tables,etc.? We've tried EVERYTHING, squirting them, spanking them,
    separating them, putting them in the cellar, a firm, loud "NO!".
    None work--We sometimes think they're getting a kick out of watching
    us go crazy!!
    
    Thx,
    
    Diane
    

    Dianne,
    My Kitty does not jump on anything except the couch and the kitchen
    chair which we allow. We got her when she was very young (6 weeks)
    and trained her just by saying NO. She could tell by the tone of
    our
    voice we meant business and once in a while a swat (not real hard)
    in the fanny. Somehow she related the swat and the NO and was very
    obiedient. The only problem we had was with her stratching. Well
    we
    took her to the vets and had her examined cause she was badly negleted
    he said she was loaded with fleas. He sprayed her down with a spray
    and you could watch the fleas fall right off. Well we got a bottle
    and in a few weeks sprayed her agin, she HATED that spray, so when
    she would scratch (couch) we would spray a little flea spray on
    the spot and she would not go near it for weeks. Once in awhile
    she would need a reminder but she has been very good. One thing
    I insisted on was if my husband wanted to give her something he
    was eating to get up and put it in her dish, NEVER feed her while
    he was sitting at the table. She has never come over and begged
    for food while we eat. Now Toto (dog) is another story, she doesn't
    beg but she sits there and looks at you with big SAD brown eyes
    and my husband cannot resist. Oh well can't win them all.
    
    Jan
    

    Re: 16
    
    Diane,
    
    Well it's a pretty funny story...we use a combination routine of
    all of the above.  First it's a loud clap, then a spray bottle,
    followed by a spank - in that order, each follows the other until
    they stop.  Now all we have to do is clap and they know to leave
    something alone because they know what is coming next. 
    
    Well this can pose a problem, if for instance one cat is doing
    something wrong and you clap - both cats freeze in their tracks. I feel
    sorry for the one who wasn't doing anything wrong.  The other problem
    is when we are watching a sports game or something to get excited over,
    and one of us claps, both kitties stop dead in their tracks trying to
    figure out what they did wrong.  
    
    Soooo needless to say it is not the best technique in the world but
    after about 2 weeks all you have to do is clap and then squirt and
    after about 4 weeks all you have to do is clap.  After about 6 weeks
    they never do anything wrong - while you are looking.   So we just put
    all the valuables away for a month until they are trained. But, the
    only thing we cannot train Koko to do is to not go into the sink and
    get the sponge - If I do I'll let everyone know! You see, there really
    isn't anything on the tables, pianos that they really want - and if the
    breakables are gone for a while, they sort of forget why they wanted to
    go up there in the first place - there's really nothing interesting to
    knock off, break or play with!  Best advice is to put your stuff away,
    train them, bring the stuff back out slowly.  And don't put anything
    near the breakables that they can consider a toy, like a dangling
    plant, a pair of pantyhose etc OR A DISH SPONGE.  I try to remember to
    put the sponge under the sink so I won't find it under my pillow
    (yuck!) but I need training too!:-) We use the same routine to teach
    them not to play in our room at night, except instead of clapping
    we head for the door to shut them out!  They don't like to be lonely!
    
    We still have the second bedroom off limits to the cats for certain
    things like wrapped presents with bows - they don't last two seconds
    in my house.                       
                            
    At age 1, Mandy gave us no problems at all, except stealing the
    bows off of Christmas presents.  Now Mandy is the angel of the family
    at 2 1/2 years old.  At age 7 mos  Koko is the angel that hasn't
    got her wings yet or her halo.  But she is well behaved for a 7
    month old kitten.  Nothing's been destroyed! (I'm knocking on wood
    right now).
    
    How old are they again?  Another point is Koko calmed down a lot
    after we got her spayed at 4 1/2 months.
    
    Suzanne
                             

    Sheba and Samson are 12 weeks old.  We've done everything you mentioned
    since we've had them these last 6 weeks, but as soon as we turn
    around, they're right back doing something wrong again.  It's funny
    because when I first had Sunshine in California and when I first
    came back to Boston, everytime I woke up in the morning I'd find
    the sponge from the kitchen sink right by my bed; now since the
    bedroom was on the 2nd floor, she had to really go out of her way
    to bring it up the stairs.  I guess since this was my first experience
    at the time with a cat (she was probably a year old at the time--but
    new to me and the house) I literally cracked up when I first caught
    her with this spong hanging out of her mouth with this faint meow
    at the same time like (Mom--look what I brought you!).
    
    Anyway, the interesting thing here is that my husband just told
    me today that he was very honest with the woman from work that wants
    Samson and told her we had mixed feelings about giving him up
    (especially since he/they were so good last nite!).  She understood
    and he told her if we changed our minds, she could have him then.
    Samson is definitely a bad influence on Sheba and even Sunshine,
    because last nite, I went downstairs for a glass of water, and who
    was making herself comfortable on the dining room table on top of
    the place mat? Little Miss Sunshine.  She never used to do this,
    but she probably figures the other little guys are doing this so
    it's alright for her too! We're also not used to having so much
    company while we're having a snack and watching T.V.  We'll sit
    there with some ice cream or grapes or something, and up comes Samson
    and Sheba digging their faces in the food.  Actually, the funny
    part of it was when they licked the glass that was filled with Bailey's
    Irish Cream.  They're faces were SO funny! Sunshine doesn't like
    people food (except tuna fish) so we never had experience with this.
    
    I will say having 1 cat and 2 kittens makes changing the litter
    box and feeding time much more of a chore!  
    
    Well, we'll see what happens tonite with the little terrorists.
    
    diane
    

    12 weeks is really early days for settling down.  I have the deep
    suspicion that cats' brains aren't fully developed at birth, and
    it takes a few months for them to start normal functioning (I'm
    not kidding).  It sounds to me like they have their little claws
    in your hearts, and if you can tough it out for a couple of months
    things will be okay.