Conference misery::feline_v1

    Used to be castration, but our last was done by tying them off.
    
    Gary

    
    .0  well..  I watched two of my males get the "ax"  and no..they
    don't remove the whole thing..just whats on the inside.  It looks
    painful, but the vet was quick about it.  2 slices, 2 pulls, two
    cuts, and two ties.  no stitches!  He wanted to give them to me to keep
    for souveniers, but I said "no thanks".
    
    Clipping the claws.. even though our cats are not outdoor cats,..we
    do clip them to save the end of the couch..and our hands!  we use
    sharp nail clippers...not dull ones  and only the very tips.  Some
    people prefer the animal nail clippers you buy in pet stores or
    department stores.
    
     As far as protection from other animals ect..outside.. I know they
    probably won't be able to climb a tree as well, or wouldn't do much
    damage to the end of a dogs nose..so you might have more vet bills
    from your buddy getting beat up.  If he/she is a good size cat,...
    or the fastest one on the block..then I wouldn't worry too much.
     other than that..just put him in at night?  thats when most animals
    are on the prowl.
    
       hope I was some help..  D.H.
    
    
    

    As far as clipping goes,
    
    My cats are indoor/outdoor cats.  I do not clip nails because 1)
    I never got around to learning how to and 2) Because of there runnign
    around, and climbing trees, and using the shingles on the roof as
    a scratching post, they have worn there claws down enough not to
    require clipping.
    
    Our kitten's claws are still a bit sharp, but they get more and
    more worn down by the day.  Besides the idea of trying to make him
    sit still long enough to clip even one nail is incomprehensible.
    
    

    RE: .0
    
    The first time I watched a neutering I almost fainted.  Of all the
    surgeries I assisted in, neutering cats is the all time worst! 
    Though, it's easy on the cat.  .2 was right.  The cat gets a light
    injection - not quite an anesthetic...but they get numb...ketamine
    us usually used.  Then, the little pom pom's are soaked in alcohol,
    and the hair is plucked off.  Can't shave it, all those little parts
    are connected, and just one tiny slip....
    
    Then the Dr. makes one tiny slit in each side of the sack...pop
    out the "pearls" tie off the cord and done!  No blood, not sutures
    no mess!  It's too bad dogs were not that easy!  Total time took
    about 20 minutes and that included prep!  The cat would wake up
    in about 30 minutes and be ready to go home by the end of the day!
    
    J
    

    Glad you asked this question.  My little guy is almost old enough
    to get neutered and I knew nothing about it.  I was told that 8-10
    months is when it should be done.  He hasn't done any spraying in
    the last month (he's going on 8 mos old) has been very mouthy. 
    He seems to want to get out, even though he's an indoor cat.  Actually,
    he's gotten quite demanding....and oh sooooo spoiled.  So it could
    be that his actions reflect his desire to train us even more.
    
    About the nails.....we clip Jasper's nails all the time because
    it hurt too much to play with him.  He doesn't like it and is at
    his vocal best.  He sort of growls, howls, and occasionally hisses.
    But we persevere to get the job done.  He sounds like we are murdering
    him, but we know we are only hurting is desire to control us.  If
    you decide to clip your cat's nails, it would be best to get a nail
    clipper from a pet store (they're inexpensive).  We clip about a
    third of the white portion of the nail.  In no time at all they're
    sharp enough again to rip our skin during play time.  It really
    is very easy.  The hard part is holding the cat!
    

    Thanks, D.H.  Sounds gruesome but guess he can take it.
    He's gutsy!
    

    Thanks to all of you for your *ouch* comebacks.  You mean he'll
    come home bald?  That ought to make him more humble .... but I
    don't think so.
    
    What if tries to jump up onto the counter.  Could that hurt
    him in anyway?  I know when the female was neutered we had to
    make sure she didn't do any jumping for a couple of days.  If
    we have to watch him that will be a full-time job.
    
    Regards,
    
    BJ
    

    When a male is neutered, not only are his testicles removed,
    but sometimes the brain goes, too (very long veins).
    
    
    kbs
    

    RE: .5
    
    I find that I have little trouble clipping nails if I do the clipping
    while the cat is napping.
    
    Deb

    re:9
    
    Yup, get 'em while they are sleeping or sleepy - pick them up
    while they are asleep, and go to town - I use regular fingernail
    clippers (the small ones, not the larger toenail size).
    The truth be know, my Katenka Dolly is the worst and most
    vocal when it comes to nail clipping - from that tiny mouth
    ( with no teeth) can come some BIG MEAN  NOISE!!!  
    
    E.T._Nails_for_18_Cats_is_quite_a_trip!!

    But where their claws curve downward should I clip them
    sideways or straight on?  It seems like if straight on
    it would bend them more than cut them.  My emery board
    is one of his *chosen* toys so anytime I pick up scissors,
    clippers, or emery board his pupils dilate like "oh boy,
    Mommy's going to sit on the floor and play cat with me."
    

    
    8-10 months?  I had been told 6 months for females, I assumed the
    same for males.  Loki's 6 1/2 months and when I brought him into
    the vets this week I asked if 'it was time', never having owned a
    male cat before.  The vet reached back and felt his little pom
    poms and exclaimed "Oh boy, it sure is!"  My once daring Loki then
    hid his face in my coat, guess he knows!
    
    Hopefully it will give my female spade cats a little peace and quiet...
    

    Generally, 6 months is for females, but it's wise to wait 7 - 8
    months for males to ensure that their urinary system develops
    fully.  If they are not spraying, that's a plus.  Actually,
    some vets are now saying it's ok to neuter males at 6-7
    months, but .....  Some folks like to wait a year for either
    males or females.          
    
    My males have gone in a 8 am and are home by 6 pm, and are
    ready to go that evening!  
    
    E.T.

    I have read documentation that some vets are acutally neutering
    male cats at the age of three months *if* both testicles are decended.
    It's young, but neutering does not affect the urinary system as
    once thought.
    
    Females on the other hand go through major surgery.  There are three
    layers of tissue to open before reaching uterine organs.  Those
    three layers are stitched back up again.  Spaying/felie hystorectomy
    is more involved that neutering cats.  Actually, neutering dogs
    is very much like a spay operation because you open up as much tissue,
    just a little lower in the abdomen and take out different parts!
    
    When it comes to this, male cats get off down right easy!!!!
    
    Jean

    re: .7

	 You shouldn't  have to worry about making sure your boy doesn't
     jump  on anything since he won't have any stitches to rip out.  The
     part  of his anatomy in question will not be subject to stress when
     he jumps on/off of anything.


	 When Becky  got  her  zipper,  she  didn't  feel  too much like
     jumping  for  the first day.  After that there was no stopping her.
     She  survived.   She had most of her stitches out before she had to
     go back to the doctor, anyway.
    
	 (Actually, both  kids  came  back with shaved bellies.  I think
     they  prepped  Josh  thinking  he was Becky and then realized their
     mistake  before  actually  making the incision.  They do look a lot
     alike, and they were in the same cage....)



		    Kathy

    There's a semi-stray female cat who is becoming more and more my
    cat (sigh), much to Holly's dismay.  She has been around for two
    months so I guess she is at least 4 months old.  I'm attempting
    to get her into the vet's, but in the mean time, at what age can
    a female cat get pregnant?
    

    I've heard of cats that have had kittens at just 6 moths old. I think
    that cats have about a 60 gestation period.

    Deb

    aaarrgrghhhhhh
    

    Gestation period for a cat is from 59 to 70 days with the average
    being 63-65 days.  A female can get pregnant very young depending
    on how fast she matures.  My Birman girls usually have their first
    season when they are around 5 months old.
    
    If you aren't careful we may be calling you Grandma Karen soon.
    
    Jo

    Whew.  Little Bit (still looking for a better name) is a boy.  5
    months old.  He got his first set of shots at the vet's this afternoon
    and will have the results of the feLV test in a few days.  I'm hoping
    that a friend who lost her cat to kidney disease a couple of months
    ago will take him (if she can convince her husband).  He has a huge
    flea infestation, even though I've been combing and flea powdering
    him.
    

    What are the effects on older cats after neutering ? 
    
    I've "heard" a few stories about disposition and behavior changes. 
    
    This is the third year in a row Bobbys brought home his mistress ( a
    stray ferral cat). Whats bad is that there are these "wild" (ferral)
    cats, and if they do manage to get into the barn they use the whole
    thing as a "litter box" and "slaughter house" for local mammals. 

    Bobby is about 5 yrs old male, and has already forgotten how to
    cover his litter in the litter box (at 14+ pounds, thats a pretty
    rotten habit, since it can stink up the whole first floor).
    
    (Fortunatly, for him, he does use the litter box).

    Bob    

    
    	Get him Neutered!
    
    	He won't be straying, bringing home his girls (and they won't
    	be contributing to the unwanted pet population), and he might
    	clean up his box habits.  I don't think you'll see any changes in
    	his hunting habits.
    
    

I have two male, neutered, 10 year old cats.  They are playful, healthy,
do not spray, do take care of their business "properly" (covering as
they go).  One cat is "solid" (my vet's term - my term is "porky") and
one cat keeps me constantly trying to get "just one more pound" on his
long skinny frame.  I don't think neutering had a thing to do with either
Sam's or Nick's disposition or body-type.

Please get your fella neutered.  There are too many kittens out there
already.

    We neutered Jesse when we found him, at that time the vet estimated
    his age to be between 11-13 years.  The only changes that I noted
    were that he stopped spraying, and that he was less aggressive,
    and more affectionate.  All positive reasons for neutering.  He could 
    still bring down a gopher with one swipe of his mighty paw.  His
    hunting ability remained intact.  
    
    Another plus for me, once he was neutered, he had no desire to go
    outside.  He wanted to be with me all the time.
    
    Jo

    re: .22 Hunting ...
    
    The hunting wasn't for him, and I'm not sure if he did (all) the
    hunting.
    
    The food was for the 'other cat' and her kittens. However, the mother
    cat is only a little 3 or 4 pound tabby, and the kills were squirrel,
    rabbits, and i found a 'hip' bone from something that was about
    1" in diameter (fairly large).
    
    For all of his size, Bobby is reasonabley gentlw, clean, adn
    afffectionate.
    
    He will "act out", but only if he gets ignored for long periods
    of time.
    
    Thanks for all the information, 
    
    
    Bob
    

re: < What effect on older Cats (5+ years) ? >-

>What are the effects on older cats after neutering ? 
    
    To answer my own  question.   We did the 'dirtier' deed to Bobby two
    weeks ago (Aug 3, '90).
    
    Saturday, he could go out.  He didn't want  to.   Has stayed indoors
    since,  showing  only  a passing interest in going out (he  sued  to
    'live'  outdoors  from dusk to dawn, sometimes for a few days  at  a
    time;   is  keeping himself cleaner;  where 'white' is really white,
    and not 'dull gray'.
    
>Bobby is about 5 yrs old male, and has already forgotten how to
>cover his litter in the litter box (at 14+ pounds, thats a pretty
    
    Just requires more frequent changes.  We  have  observed  him 'going
    through  the  motions'  of  covering his feces ...    its  just  not
    effective.
    
-BobE    

    Bob doesn't cover - he's about 13 lbs now - and BOY do you know it!
    Even the kittens will try to take care of it and its bigger than
    they are ;-)

Here is our situation:

We have one female, Sadie, who is about 3.5 months now, and a male, Alex, who
is about 5 months old.

We have set an appointment for Sadie to be spayed the first of November, which
would make her about 5.5 months old.

I had always heard 7 months for males and thought GREAT, bring them in together,
since Alex will be 7 months the beginning of November.

BUT, the vet says he likes to wait until the males are 9 months, "to allow all
their male traits develop" or something like that.  So I think, well that sounds
good - I'd like Alex to have all his personality developed before he gets
snipped.  However, there is one trait I wouldn't be too fond of - SPRAYING.
When does spraying start?  Will he be less likely to spray without another
male around?

Also, what about Sadie, is there any risk that he will "try anything" on her
before she gets spayed or even after?

I'd like to hear what people think about waiting until 9 months in this
in this situation.

Thanks,
Dawn

    If a male has all his parts before 9 months it is fine to neuter him at
    that time.  I would rather have it done early than wait for 9 months
    and see if the cat develops any bad habits in the interim.  Kelsey, my
    Ragdoll, was neutered at almost 8 months of age... and should have been
    done much sooner.  At about 6 1/2 - 7 months, he began jumping on his
    brother's back and biting his neck... exhibiting signs of breeding but
    thankfully not spraying.  The vet didn't have an opening until a month
    later and so we had to wait before getting he and his brother fixed. 
    That was a long month of Kelsey trying to breed Shelby and us trying to
    pry him off.
    
    In my experiences, the signs of ready to be fixed have not been subtle
    ones and they come on suddenly.  So, if the parts are in full blossom,
    have them removed asap, especially with an unspayed female in the
    house.
    

    I would probably wait to do the neuter.  All the whole males that I
    have raised did not start spraying until they were over a year old. 
    And I am a breeder with whole females running around my house.  The
    male traits the vet is talking about are the broadening of the head
    that can occur in some cats.  It doesn't always occur but it can.
    
    But, my reason for waiting has more to do with having the cat be older
    before anesthetizing them.  Plus, if you female will be 5 months old
    when she is spayed, then you will probably be fine.  I know of few cats
    who came into season *before* five months old.  Some females will
    experience a "kitten heat" at 5-6 months, but they usually will not
    allow a male to approach during this heat because they don't know what
    is happening and are afraid.
    
    If your male cat goes outside, you have a greater chance of him
    spraying as an adult than if you wait til he is 9 months to neuter him. 
    Being outside and having to fight for territory will cause most cats to
    develop a spraying habit, regardless of what age they were when
    neutered or spayed.
    
    Disclaimer - I am speaking in general terms here, your mileage may
    vary.
    
    
    Jo

    Awhile back it was believed that if a male was neutered "early" he
    might be more susceptible to urinary tract blockages in later life,
    since the diameter of the urethral (?) opening would be smaller as
    it was believed to stop developing after the cat was altered.  Then
    I heard that perhaps this was not true.  Something to talk sbout
    with your vet, perhaps.
    
    Two of my male cats were altered as adults (several years old,
    acquired as adults) and neither sprayed.

	Both my male cats were castrated at 5.5 months, the vet said that if 
	they were fully developed, then there was no reason to wait.

	They are great cats, but with very different personalities.

	Niether of them are fast enough to catch birds etc., I put it down to
	lazyness..................

	Heather