Conference misery::feline_v1

    Well, I've seen two bad ones.  One was a patient at the vets where
    I was working for the summer between college years. This one had
    a broken leg ..was in pain and was terrified. I couldn't tell you
    how it was at home, but the owners seemed afraid of it.
    
    The other belongs to a friend.  She will act friendly and suddenly
    attack furociously ..or hide and suddenly appear with murder in
    her heart. Her terror tactics are not reserved for strangers ..she
    attacks her own family if no other target is around. ..and her teeth
    and claws are ready to draw blood at any time!
    
    But lest you get the wrong idea, these are the only two bad ones
    I've known.  I've had Siamese since 1961 and all of mine have been
    extremely affectionate.  The males lived for attention and the females
    demanded it ...though on their terms. They have been intelligent
    mischievous and definitely spoiled brats ...but NEVER mean. My son
    has two Siamese now, both about 2 yrs old, ...one apple-headed and
    the other a more "modern" type (though not extreme). Both have the
    same wonderful dispositions I have seen on the numerous Siamese
    I've met throughout the years. My old TiJai *lived* to be held and
    hugged and my two older spays purr up a storm when they're held. 
    
    I think there's some truth to the old saying "you either love them
    or hate them".  Not everyone who loves cats would choose to share
    their lives with such demanding critters ...but I think the reputation
    for being mean is a "bad rap".  The bad ones are very rare in my
    experience.
    
    Linda who_still_has_Sheba_at_18_and_Sity_at_16.
                                                                    

    I LOVE Siamese. I had two - both of whom lived to be in their 20's-
    and both were the sweetest, prettiest, smartest cats I ever had.
    They were both spayed females, one was real small (5 lbs - a Chocolate
    Point) and one was a biggy (15 lbs - a Sealpoint). I still have a 
    Tortie Siamese - spayed female, and she is every bit as smart and
    sweet as the others (about 7 lbs). I hope she lives as long as they
    did.   
    
    The only reason my other cats are not Siamese is because I was
    working with a humane society and decided to give some handicapped
    cats a home. But my heart is still with Siamese. They seem to know
    what you are thinking and are responsive. All of my Siamese "talked"
    but not to any great extent and they NEVER howled. Mine were/are aloof 
    from the other cats however I always regarded that as part of their
    charm. Also, they have all been very LOYAL to me.
    
    Can you tell that I feel you are a very fortunate person to have
    three Siamese??!! 
    
    Pat
                                                               

    Nonsense!!
    
    My mother has two cats - both siamese and they drive you crazy with
    affection!  In no way are they nasty or mean.  They are just two
    loveable cats.  In fact Pina Colada doesn't have a mean bone in
    her body.  She would rather just walk away then hurt anyone or
    anything.
    
    I think that if you get a siamese as a kitten and you bring it up
    with the notion that they are nasty and mean the chances are good
    that they will portray these traits.   Somewhat like children, "they
    learn what they see".
    
    Linda
    
    

    Are Siamese short hair? long hair? or can they come in both?
    
    I always thought they were short hair only, but recently I have
    been seeing quite afew cats that *look* like Siamese except they
    have been longhaired.  Are these Siamese?  Or are they something
    else?
    
    

    There are several cats that have long hair, but look otherwise like,
    or very similar to, the Siamese.  These include the Balinese, Birman,
    Colorpoint, Himalayan, and probably several others.  The Birman has
    an "average cat" body type -- no squashed or pointy nose, and has
    little white mittens on it's feet.  The Balinese is, I believe,
    actually a Siamese type, but with long hair.  The Colorpoint is,
    I believe, the Siamese coloring, on a Persian body type.  

    I'm sure there are breeders out there who are more knowledgable
    about this than I, but if it has long hair, it cannot be shown as
    a Siamese.
    
    Karen, Tristan and Tenzing.

    I also have a question. My twins are part Siamese. They've always
    been vocal, but it seems that the older that they get, the more
    they talk. They are 3 years old and you can hold a two way conversation
    with either of them (and they hold conversations with each other,
    too). Is this common? 
          
    Deb

    re: .7
    
    Very common.  All the Siamese I've known (dozens) have been brilliant
    conversationalists.  It's one of their most endearing qualities
    in my opinion.  Neither of my current cats are Siamese, but Tenzing
    converses too, and it reminds me of my childhood Sealpoint, Fuji.
    
    Karen, Tristan and Tenzing.

    Deb, I find this very common.  My Sasha is 9 and I call her
    MaryMouth - (sorry MM) - she never shuts up!  Has something
    to say about everything all the time.  The older she gets
    the crankier she gets.  She does what she wants to do
    when she wants to do it no matter what I want her to do.
    We have this war every night.  As soon as I am under the
    covers in bed, she does the "recline on my chest" routine.
    No, I love my cat, but for the first 10 minutes after I
    get into bed, I would like to just relax with NO cats -
    for only a few minutes, please.  But no, here comes sasha -
    every night I push her off to the side beside me - she very
    slowly sleezes up on top looking me right in the eye as she
    slowly moves up and on.  I push her down - she repeat the
    sleeze action - this goes on for as long as I can stand it -
    either I boot her off the bed (she comes right back on) or
    I give in and let her up - sigh - every night for the last
    9 + years.  She is a spoiled brat and gets her way with
    everything no matter what.  If I don't let her, I hear
    about it for at least 15 minutes! grrrr
    
    E.T.

    Ok, you know I had to get my two cents in!  I *love* Siamese cats!
    My first Siamese that I had growing up was very tempermental - when
    she had enough affection from you, she let you know with her teeth.
    And she would draw blood, even from us.
    
    My two now, however, are the complete opposite.  They are so
    affectionate and curious and friendly that every time we have guests
    over, they comment "these are the nicest cats I've ever met - are
    you quite sure they're Siamese?"
    
    The talking is one of those endearing qualities that either makes
    you love or hate the breed.  Charm complains about her accommodations,
    her food, the amount of attention she gets, the time of day, etc.
    My husband and I tell her we're going to send her to work as a loan
    agent, because her favorite word is "Nyooooo..."!!
    
    Niniane just plain talks back.  This cat refuses to let you have
    the last word.  An example,
    
    Me:  Niniane, get off the table.
    Cat: Nyoooo  (Fat chance)
    Me:  NINIANE, get off the table!
    Cat: NYOOO (Not in this lifetime lady)
    Me:  NINIANE, GET OFF THE TABLE!
    Cat: NYAAHHHHH (Sort of a kitty equivalent of a raspberry)
    Me:  NINIANNNEEE, NOOOOOO! GET DOWN!
    Cat: NYAHHHHH, murph,murph,chirp,squeak,squeak.....(I can't have
         any fun! [cat jumps down, leaves room] mumble,mumble,mumble)
    
    So, tell me, why do I want a few more?
    
    Mary-Michael (who may just have a few more after this week-end...)

        
        Thanks for  all  your  replies  - I really enjoy reading about
        other  Siamese,  and    knowing  that  ours  aren't  all  that
        different!  With three  little  ones,  trying to sit and watch
        t.v. can be an adventure - reading a book is impossible :^}
        
        But where do you suppose the 'myth' came from?
        
        Sandy
        

    Cats being bred for show, coming from large kennels tend to not
    get the affection and therefor are not as affectionate towards humans.
    I am thinking possibly that since siamese was (is) such a popular
    show breed that possibly in earlier days people where buying show
    cats for pets and not seeing the kind of affection they where hoping
    for.  
    
    Any thoughts on this?

    It's my experience that show babies get more attention than the
    ones that are left at home.  Mine do, anyway!!  I sometimes feel
    guilty about that!  I like spending a whole weekend (2 or 3 days)
    with my baby girl, but I can hardly wait to get back to the others
    after a day or so!!
    
    E.T.

    I have 2 siamese.  Both are extremely lovable.  Mijo is more
    vocal than Selina, but then his hormones have just come flooding
    in.  Time for that vet appointment.
    
    I have lived with siamese all of my life.  I agree with #3.  Your
    cats do reflect the owners.  The more love and attention you
    give them, the more they give you back.  It's been proven to me
    over and over and over again.
    
    Siamese are my very favorite kitties in the world.  Anyone that
    comes into my home can certainly tell right away with the siamese
    pictures, plates, flag, and clothing that I have.
    
    I even sent out birthday invitations for the family to come over
    and celebrate Selina's birthday last year.  Wait until they
    receive Mijo's invitation.  They're going to think that I'm
    crazy. (if they don't already)
    
    And the best part of all, my husband is as crazy over them as
    I am.
    
    
    Shelly, Selina, & Mijo (pronounced  me-hoe)
                                               

    Ozzy is a wonderful siamese. He's one of four cats that I have.
    He is the most active and playful one. And does he talk.  He certainly
    lets me know when he is hunger or wants to play or just in a mood
    to chat.  
    
    My son swears that he actually said some sort of words the other
    day.  I wouldn't be surprized.       
    
    Denise

    My Norman looks like your average cat--he's orange and beige (very
    lightly striped--you have to look to see the stripes) He's very
    long and sleek with yellow eyes. He doesn't look Siamese, but he
    has the personality. I wonder if he was mixed somewhere down the
    line? 
    
    Norman talks to me when he's happy or inquisitive, and howls at
    me when he's not. I love it. My parents on the other hand don't
    take so well to him.
    
    Norman is very, very, very demanding. If I don't play from him the
    minute I get home he howls--also if I don't get his milk fast enough.
    He has a dark side though. If he's sick of me he'll bite or scratch--he
    also does this if his howling is ignored. I was sleeping once and
    didn't play when he wanted to and he bit my cheek! Ouch!
    
    I think he sounds siamese--even though he doesn't look it!
    
    Michelle
    

    It's interesting....  All this talk of Siamese has brought some
    memories of Fuji that I'd forgotten.  I tend to remember only his
    good side.  Whenever he went to the vet he turned into a complete
    maniac.  He got so violent that they required my mother to hold
    him (she started bringing heavy leather gloves).  When we took 
    him in to be fixed, they couldn't go near him as long as he was
    consious and asked us to get him out of the cage (usually people
    were never allowed back there).  He hissed and spit at everyone but
    me, so I went in alone (I was about 12 I think).  The poor little
    guy was cowering in the back of the cage, hissing and spitting and
    generally acting the terrified little tough guy.  After he saw who
    I was he approached me and let me pick him up.  I had to hand carry
    him home, and no one else could approach him for awhile.  This was
    a great ego boost to a young teenage girl, but his behavior was
    amazing.  He was so violent with the people at the vet's that they
    hadn't been able to clean him up and he was a mess.
    
    When we got our cats, once I was adult, I was afraid that vet trips
    were always going to be like that.  Nothing could be further from
    the truth.  Our cats are angels at the vet, a little nervous, but
    gentle and quiet.  Thank goodness!
    
    Karen, Tristan and Tenzing.

    I agree with E.T about the personalities of show cats.  Very few
    breeders keep so many cats that they are all caged and not handled
    much.  I have found that most show cats are loved and handled as
    much, if not more, than your average cat.  Show cats have to be
    very friendly and sweet since they are handled by strangers every
    weekend at shows.  A mean cat, or one that didn't like to be handled,
    would not be a good candidate for showing.
                                                                        
    A Balinese is a longhaired cat with the same body type and markings
    as a Siamese.  A Colorpoint is a cat with a "siamese" body type, but
    with point markings in colors that are not recognized for Siamese 
    (in CFA, this includes anything other than Chocolate, Lilac, Seal, or 
    Blue).  Colorpoints can be tabby barred, or tortie points as well.  
    Himylayan (sp?) is a color pattern of a Persian cat.  They are no
    longer a separate breed (in CFA).  They were originally bred from a 
    Siamese/Persian cross.  Birmans are colorpoint cats with short stocky
    legs, long bodies, roman noses, with whites gloves on the front
    feet and gauntlets on the back feet.  They were not bred from Siamese,
    but they do share the colorpoints and the wonderful, sweet
    personalities with them.
    
    A good friend breeds Siamese and Balinese and I find it a pleasure
    to go visit her and the cats.  They are extremely affectionate.
    Whenever our cat club meets at her house, we each get a cat to sit
    on our laps during the meeting.
    
    Jo Ann (in disguise again ;^})
    

        
        Thanks for the explanation of the different types of 'pointed'
        cats, Jo Ann - I need to go to more cat shows in order to know
        them all better.
        
        I had to smile  when  you described the cat club meeting and a
        cat in each lap.   That's  what  it's  often like at our house
        with  the three Siamese.  They're  very  democratic  in  their
        affections, and just about anyone who dares  to  sit down gets
        possessed by one or more kitties :^}
        
        Sandy
        

    I have had three Siamese cats in the last six years...two Seals
    male and female, and one blue male.
    
    The seal female was VERY gregarious and demanded your love and
    attention especially my husband's (even though MingToy was mine
    and then we met Dave).  MingToy decided Dave was going to be HER
    male human...if he paid attention to anything other than her, he
    certainly heard about it (loud howls, cursing, etc.).  She, on the
    other hand, tried to make him jealous by paying attention to Dave's
    buddies!!  What a cat!!....however, her posessiveness got the best
    of her....whenever Dave bought me cut flowers, MingToy would chew
    them up; back in September, 1987 he bought me cut tiger lilies,
    Several days and $700 later, she was dead and left two devastated
    humans behind!
    
    MingToy's personality was demanding and assertive but never mean,
    she knew just how far she could go in temperment because we never let
    her get out of hand.  My sister also has a female seal and her cat
    is VICIOUS, CRAZY, AND TOTALLY OUT OF CONTROL.  I will not sit down
    in my sister's apartment if Puss-Puss is anywhere in sight.  This
    cat will attack friend and/or foe, and I really think it is because
    my sister enjoys this type of behavior and has encouraged it from
    kittenhood.   
    
    MingToy's replacement is a male seal and is completely opposite
    in personality--"laid-back" takes on a new meaning with Tycho (after
    the monolith in 2001 Space Odessy). His nicknames are Puppy, because
    he gallops through our house and has been known to knock over a
    dining-room chair; and "Carny"voire because he gobbles his food!!
     Also, Tycho is 15 pounds to MingToy's 9 pounds.
    
    My other Siamese has a special place in my heart.  He is a
    long-suffering bluepoint male (lived through MingToy and now Tycho)
    and is afriad of just about everything including his own Shadow
    (his name).  But affectionate and talkative just the same.
    
    I would have many more Siamese, Chocolates, Lilacs, and Flames,
    but just down have the room.
    
    REgards to all,
    
    Charlene, Tycho and Shadow

    
    Re -.1  Yeah, we call our three (1 seal, 2 blues) 'Siamoose' now, due
    to their propensity to gallop through the house at odd times of the
    day.  The 'thundering herd' is another term.  This morning Andy found
    our Canadian rocker on its back in the living room - good thing we
    sleep upstairs :^}
    
    Sandy
    

    My ambition is to own 2 seal points named Ming and T'ang.
    
    However the two I have now wouldn't stand for it and I love them
    more than the idea.
    
    Kate
    (Isis and Tarot)