Conference misery::feline_v1

    Since this is a note about feral kitties I thought I'd ask the question
    here:
    
    This morning I found 3 kitties playing in the tree in my yard. 
    When I went out to pet them, 2 dashed off, the other was unable
    to get down the tree and so decided to run up.  I spent about 10
    minutes at the bottom of the tree and managed to coax it down. 
    When I held it, the poor thing was scared silly, but after a few
    scratches under the chin, it seemed to enjoy my presence.  I brought
    it inside to give it some food, but that was a really bad move,
    one of my cats hissed and spat and the little thing paniced.  I
    brought it outside again and put it in the bushes so it could find
    its brothers/sisters who were meowing for it.
    
    The question is:  Are these kittens feral?  I would think that a feral
    kitten could not be coaxed out of a tree by a human, but then it was
    so scared when in my arms.  If they are feral, I would like to take
    the right steps like Roberta has, but if they are tame, I certainly
    don't want to take them from their owners.  Is there anyway to tell
    other than asking everyone in the neighborhood?
                                  

    RE: .0 YEAH!!!!!  Way to go Donna and Roberta!!!  I knew you would
    do it!
    
    RE: .1  I don't think that this cat was born feral.  If it was,
    there is no way you would have been able to coax it down the tree
    right away let alone hold it.
    
    Holly
    

    Roberta--
    
    I will be glad to make a donation for Karissa and her kitties if
    you need it.
    
    
    Just ask, and keep up the good work!
    
    Jane

    Thank you, Jane.  I am not one to ask for handouts; however, the
    bill is going to be close to $150 if not m, and I am putting the
    whole thing on my Master Card.  Since that will bring my M.C. bill
    to well over $200 total, I guess I won't argue if people offer!
    But regardless of that, I just want to fix Karissa up and try to
    find her a good home.  That was my main priority all along and still
    is.  No way is this little girl being put to sleep!
    

    Would love to help also since I'm getting mine all expense reimbursed
    by FAHS.  How do I help?  My DTN is 223-5834.  
    
    BJ
    

    Hi--
    
    Forgot to say my DTN is 232-2226.
    
    Call--and I'll do what I can.
    
    She's worth it!
    
    Jane

    			****** THIS NOTE IS FROM ROBERTA ******
    
    My node is down; using the boss' account!
    
    Thank you for your kind offers of help.  Karissa is at the Westboro
    Animal Hospital.  I have never done anything like this before, so
    I will have to call them and find out their policy on donations.
    My guess is to send your check directly to the hospital asking them
    to apply it to the bill for Karissa in my name.  Their address is:
    
    				Westboro Animal Hospital
    				155 Turnpike Road
    				Westboro, MA 01581
    
    I will be calling them after lunch today to find out how she's doing.
    I have been sitting on the edge of my chair all morning!  Will post
    an update later on.
    
    Again, thank you for your concerns and generousity.
    
    Regards,
    Roberta
    
    P.S.  Still haven't captured those last two babies, but am not giving
    up hope yet!
    
    

    		****** THIS MESSAGE IS FROM ROBERTA ******
                
    
    I have some very sad news.
    
    Karissa tested positive for felv.  She is being euthanized this
    afternoon.
    
    Needless to say, I am very upset, not only for her but for her babies
    as well.  I wished I could have said goodbye.  I didn't realize
    just how attached I had become until the vet called and the tears
    started to form.
    
    Thank you all for your expressions of concern and continuous help
    and support throughout this situation.  The vet bill will only amount
    to the overnight stay and the felv test so there is no need for
    contributions.
    
    Will continue to write in about the kittens.
    
    /Roberta
    

    
    
        FLAME ON
    
        Could I ask why the minute a positive test comes back does that
    mean an immediate death sentence?  I guess this is more geared toward
    the vet if anyone.  Funny I've known and know people that have positive cats
    and have not had them put to sleep.  

        FLAME OFF
    
         Sorry I guess if anything pisses me off this is it.......
         My heart goes out to you Roberta and to Karrissa and her kittens.
         What happened to retesting.  I never heard of a vet putting a
         cat right to sleep without redoing the test later.

How sad, for both you and Karissa.  After all you have gone through to
help her and her kittens, it just seemed destined to have a happy ending.
You should take some comfort in knowing that you did everything you
could for her and at least she had some time spent with someone who
cared.  8^(

We all wish it could have turned out better,
	Curious George, Boss Tweed, Maxwell, Pipsqueak, Punkin Head,
	Spats Growltiger, Bailey and Spider.

Jan  and_her_mob_of_8

    Oh Roberta.  I am so very sorry to hear that.  I can't say that
    I know how you feel, but I can guess.  You worked so hard for so
    long.  You WILL go to heaven and when you arrive, Karissa will
    be there waiting for you!
    
    Elaine, Sasha, Koko, Nikolas, Alexander, Timothy, Yurii, Ivan, Lara, Miyagi,
    Katenka, SilVee, Pashenka, Misha, Malinka, and Victoria. 

    Kim,
    
    I am going to try to keep my cool.
    
    It was *my* decision to have her put down, not the vets!  Do you
    know of a shelter that will take a felv positive cat?!  I don't!
    Do you want to adopt her????  I can call the vet now...maybe it's
    not too late.  I have two cats of my own and was caring for Karissa
    out of the goodness of my heart.  They did suggest retesting her;
    however, the test cannot be done right away or the same positive
    result would reoccur.  You have to wait a certain amount of time.
    What would I do?  Throw her back outside again?  Maybe you would
    like to take her to your house and isolate her?  I cannot.  I was
    pushing my limits already with my fiance and do not intend to drive
    him out of his own home.  He loves cats and all animals for that
    matter but feels there is a limit as to what one person can do.
    I agree.
    
    The last thing I needed to hear right now was your reply.  I made
    the best decision I could and feel it was the right one.
    

    Roberta,
    
    We've talked off-line but I wanted to support you on-line also.
    If anyone should know what you have gone through it would be me.
    You have spent many nights (1 1/2 months) working with Karissa and
    the kittens in the rocks and woods being eaten alive by bugs.  We
    have worked so hard with a problem that we didn't create.  You are
    to be commended for your kindness and I support you 100% in your
    decision.
    
    However, our problems are not over, we have two kittens in my house
    now and two still in the woods.  How sad it would be if these kittens
    had felv.  I pray for them and I dam the people who dumped them
    there to begin with.
    
    Donna

    
        Well lucky for me things bounce right off or maybe it's just
    that I realize what a touchy situation this is and accept that.
    However like anything else one feeling toward something is not always
    the same when you change the parties involved.  I assumed (and I
    should know better than to assume) that the vet had made the decision
    as I have seen happen many many times.  I assumed he could make
    that decision for you based on Karissa's situation.  I figured it
    was the vet as you did not state till later it was your decision.
    I would never argue or question that.  You've earned that decision
    by your devotion to her.  
    
          By sharing with us through this conference (and I am glad
    you did) everyone who has followed this feels especially seeing
    that it was a shock to us all.  We all deal with shock differently
    and that's our own perogative.  Hopefully you will understand what
    I meant and how it was meant and accept it as an apology.  I support
    you wholeheartedly I just wish I would have known at the beginning.
    In my eyes anyway it makes a great world of difference.  
    
                                                              kim
    

    Roberta,
    
    Has she been euthanized yet?  If not, there are two shelters in
    my area that WILL take a Felv positive cat.  One is in Fitchburg,
    the other is in Barre.  Both have been mentioned in this file.
    
  
    I am very sorry to hear this.  i logged into this notesfile first
    thing every morning to see if there is any news.  Lets just hope
    that the kittens don't have it too.
    
    Another thing, you did bring her into your house, didn't you?  I
    would have Nicki and chauncy tested soon.  Especially if they had
    any contact with her.
    
    so Sorry,
    
    Holly, tabby, silver, micki, and snooks.
    

    
    
        O.k. I have a confession to make.  I knew about the shelters
    too Holly and that too fueled my fire for the flame.  I didn't want
    to bring up the shelters after Roberta's reply and am glad that
    you did.  I felt an answer would have been looked upon as a smart-ass
    remark to her questioning of me and felt it should be left alone.
    I feel better now as I questioned myself as to why I didn't answer
    the questions and it was just to keep the peace.  Well if there
    is no time left to change the vets actions she knows now for the
    kittens sakes. If I would have known of the decision making process
    going on I would have been much more quicker to throw that idea
    out in the wind.  But still for the info that Roberta had at that
    time I see she felt she had no options.  With no options known to
    her it was the only decision she could make at the time.
    
                                                                kim  
    
                                                        
    

    I just want to say, Remember Moma cat was an out door cat and the
    life Roberta gave her the last couple of months was a lot better
    than she would have had. Roberta could have said, "We have feral
    cats out behind our development", and left it at that.
    
    In this shelter would her life consisted of being penned up in a
    cage forever? Lets look at all the alternatives.
    
    Roberta put the effort forth, assumed command of the situation
    and in my opinion NO ONE has or had a right to be critical of her
    decision. 
    
    Your heart Roberta must be aching  to have spent so much time with
    Moma worring, fretting, etc, and then have it end up like this.
    Your are a very special person in my book.
    
    Barbara

    Okay, so there are shelters that will take a felv positive cat.
    Even after thinking it over, I still feel I made the right decision.
    Karissa was an outdoor cat.  What kind of life would she have in
    a shelter?  In my opinion, she would not be happy there.  How many
    people would adopt a felv positive cat?  Not many, again, in my
    opinion.
    
    Yes, I realize I will have to have Chauncey and Nikki retested.
    Both have had several instances of contact with the virus prior
    to my adopting them and knock on wood, have tested negative in the
    past.  Regardless of that, I am *not* sorry for bringing her into
    my house and took the necessary precautions as best I could.  If
    history were to repeat itself, I would not hesitate to help another
    kitty have a chance at the good life.  With any amount of hope,
    her kittens will carry on for her and lead the lifestyles that their
    momma never could.  Like Donna, I am praying for their well being.
    

    Roberta,
    
    You should be commended for what you have done.  Not everyone would
    put in the time that you have, or would care as much as you did.
    I was only trying to save the cat's life and I wasn't looking at
    what the quality of her life would be.  If she was an outdoor cat
    for so long, there is no way she would enjoy it in the shelter,
    
    Holly
    

    Thanks, Holly.  I'm sorry if I sounded smug; yesterday was not a
    very good day overall.
    
    When I went to the vet last nite to settle the bill, Karissa was
    still alive.  I asked for some alone time with her and said my
    goodbyes.  After awhile, the vet came in and we discussed the
    situation in detail.  He felt that I was doing the right thing;
    if she were my pet, then we could look at other possibilities, but
    given the situation, her life would not be a happy one living in
    a shelter, and there are very few people out there who will want
    to adopt a felv positive cat.  I have been to the Bosler shelter
    in Barre, and although I commend Elaine for what she is doing, I
    felt very sorry for a lot of the animals there.  Many of the cats
    looked sickly and *in my opinion* would be better off euthanized.
    None of my friends or family were in a position to take her until
    the 2nd test could be performed, nor did anyone in this notes file
    offer assistance (not a flame, just a statement).  I based my decision
    not only on the fact of what I knew about her personality and
    background, but also because I felt that all possible alternatives
    had been exhausted.  I feel terrible that it had to end this way,
    but take pride in knowing that I went over and above the call of
    duty for Karissa and her babies.  That is more effort than most
    people would have put forth.
    
    /Roberta
    

    Roberta,
    
    You are a special person and I hope that I am never in a situation
    that would force me to make a decision like the one you had to make.
    
    My thoughts and wishes are with you, your cats, and the kittens.
    
    Jill
    

>    None of my friends or family were in a position to take her until
>    the 2nd test could be performed, nor did anyone in this notes file
>    offer assistance (not a flame, just a statement).

    This is probably too little too late, but here it goes anyway. I would
    have offered to help defray the expenses of boarding her until she
    could be re-tested, but .8 and .10 sounded to me like like she had
    already been put down, and I was afraid that if I offered after the
    fact it might just make you feel worst.

    Deb   

    Hi Roberta,
    
    Something we tend to forget sometimes is that an animal has no concept
    of 'tomorrow'.  They live in this moment only.  The quality of life
    for our pets is ours to determine.  Karissa would have been miserable
    in a shelter, and no one better than me knows what chances she had
    to be adopted.  You did the VERY BEST you could do.  It ain't easy.
    Since we're "walking in the same shoes" these days, my heart goes
    out to you.  My little Girl has been living in my house the past
    week or two and I'm very attached to her.  What happens if she tests
    positive for FeLv??  I won't know until after she has her babies.
    So, in the meantime, she's running a tab at the vets, eating Sheba
    and Fancy Feast and finding room in my heart.
    
    God bless you, Roberta!
    
    Mary

    Thanks Deb and Mary.  I, too, was taking into consideration the
    quality of Karissa's life if she were to be boarded until test #2
    or taken to a shelter.  Either way, she would have been miserable.
    To ease my pain, I have been in close contact with Tufts, and they
    informed me that for the most accurate results to occur, there should
    be a 3 month waiting period before retesting.  That would mean a
    miserable 3 months for Karissa in isolation.  As it is, I am having
    Chauncey and Nikki retested this Saturday and again three months
    from then.  That's another $34 to spend in addition to the $72 bill
    Karissa incurred upon her overnite stay and bloodwork.  We brought
    two of the kittens to the Sterling Shelter last nite; another $16.
    They don't test for felv so if I want them tested, I have to pay
    for that too, so they don't have to spend their whole time there
    in a cage.  I want them running around with the other kittens to
    socialize them and increase their chances of being adopted.  Then
    there is the cost of food I am still providing for the remaining
    two kittens and the father cat!  That's a lot of money for someone
    who is only an admin. secretary here at DEC.  I am not complaining,
    just trying to point out that it would have been very expensive
    for me to keep Karissa in the long run.  I loved her very much and
    it broke my heart to leave those babies at the shelter.  They were
    terrified, and I felt I betrayed them after they were really starting
    to trust me.  I cried all night long and still have tears in my
    eyes whenever I think about it and see their little faces in my
    mind.  And it's still not over.  My mind won't rest until I get
    those last two kittens.
    
    Thank you all for caring and for understanding what I had to do.
    
    /Roberta
    

Roberta, you are indeed to be commended for your efforts.

I too, went through a similar situation recently.

I just went one step further:

About 6 months ago the most adorable tuxedo cat showed up at my back door.
He was very friendly (not wild at all) and in dire need of companionship.
I thought, "I already have 10 cats, what difference could one more make?"

I welcomed him into my home and took him to the vet for the routine exam
and vaccines. Of course, they tested for FeLV. Of course it came back positive.
They told me that it was just *trace* positive; that he had a 50/50 chance
of throwing it over.

I was devasted. The vet recommended that he be...uh, you know...
the *E* word. I just couldn't. I didn't feel that I could be morally
responsible for such a decision. After all, he came to me for help -
not to be killed. On the other hand, I couldn't take the chance on his
infecting my others. And I couldn't let him infect other strays out in
the wild. I have never known such complete and utter helplessness.
Roberta you must understand.

I did not know about the shelter in Barre, however I DID know about the
one in Fitchburg. I couldn't send him there because I know about Pat Brody
and her plight. She is inundated as it is. She really couldn't afford
another mouth to feed among her brood.

I told the vet to keep him quarantined for a week; If I didn't find him
a home within a week they could do as they saw fit. Well, I spent an
entire week calling every vet and shelter in Massachusetts and
New Hampshire...I made up "Cat with FeLV needs good home" posters and
hung them on bulletin boards...I spoke to every catless person I knew. 
I also spent a lot of time crying. It seemed so futile.

Then I struck paydirt!

It seems that the Northeast Animal Shelter in Salem, MA actually has a 
listing of people WHO WANT TO ADOPT FELV POSITIVE CATS!
Granted it is a pretty small list, but at least I had something
to go on. With my second call I reached a wonderful woman who had just
lost a cat to the virus. The new problem being that her other cat 
(also *trace* positive) was without a playmate (leukemic cats
get lonely too). She was as thrilled at the prospect of 
offering Asa a home as I was!

I had Asa neutered and given all his shots. Then I took a day off
of work and brought him to his new home in Winthrop (right on the beach). 
His new family was thrilled (especially Punkin)! They have lived happily 
ever after ever since. Becky says that Asa looks and acts so much like
"Sammy", it gets spooky sometimes. TALK ABOUT DESTINY!

I have never felt so relieved.

So please take note, if you have/know of a cat with the FELV virus,
though I promise you no miracles, try giving these people a call:

                    Northeast Animal Shelter
                    204 Highland Ave.
                    Salem, MA
                    617-745-9888            ask for Karen


You will be glad you did. 


Denise
    

    That's quite a story, Denise.  I guess after reading that, some
    people would consider me cruel and inhumane.  One thing the vet did
    tell me:  Karissa's test was not trace positive, it was *definitely*
    positive.  I made it a point to ask after speaking with Tufts (and
    all this occurred before she had been put to sleep).
    
    The subject of euthanasia is as controversial as the indoor/outdoor
    topic and could turn into quite a debate.  You are to be highly
    recognized for your efforts and I thank you for the information.
    It just might come in handy if her kittens test positive for the
    disease.
    
    Thanks for writing in, and welcome to Feline!
    

    Roberta, I too want to commend you for everything you have done
    for Karissa and her babies.  It takes such strength and devotion
    to take in a cat that someone has just decided they didn't want
    and dumped off.  I know what you are going thru...a while back,
    my neighbors moved and left their cat (just one; but still I ended
    up taking him in).  It breaks your heart when that happens and the
    only humane thing to do is help.  I did and it turned out good for
    the little guy...he got a nice new home.
    
    Overall, I think you made the best decision possible.  You don;t
    have to feel sorry for what you did.  Now you have more information
    handy in case something like this should happen again.
    
    God Bless,
    Erin

    Roberta,
    
    I have just caught up with this note and wanted to say how sorry
    I am.  
    
    I don't know if I ever mentioned it to you, but Jesse tested positive
    quite unexpectedly last October.  I went through the same thought
    processes that you did.  No one wanted him.  I was lucky enough
    to confince my mother to take him.  If she hadn't taken him, I may
    have had to euthanize him.  He stayed at the vet's in isolation
    for over three weeks while I begged and pleaded for a home for him.
    We had ads in the papers, on bulletin boards in stores, at the vet's,
    everywhere.  I never got one phone call for my efforts.
    
    I think you have done what you had to do.  It takes alot of inner
    strength to make this type of decision and I want you to know that
    I am behind you.
    
    I am here if you need to talk.
    
    Jo

    How are the kittens doing?