Conference misery::feline_v1

    Hi Roberta,
    
    A kitty abortion is not available.  A few months ago, Silver got
    out and was out most of the night.  Needless to say, I was one scared
    kitty mom.  She had just gone into heat.  We called the Vet the next 
    day and she said that ther was nothing that they could do if she 
    was pregnant, we would just have to wait until she had the kittens 
    and find a good home for them.  
    
    Good luck finding a home for her.
    
    Holly
    

    We had Portia spayed when she was pregnant.  It was the vets advice
    since she was quite sick at the time -- the vet said spay her then
    or risk the possibility of a litter of stillborn kittens.  We choose
    the abortion route and had no problems with it.  Portia's health
    took a complete turnaround.  Our vet guessed that Porty was only
    2-3 weeks pregnant at the time -- if she had been further along
    I don't know if our options would have been the same.  Can you feel
    her stomach?  I heard it's about 6 weeks and then you can feell
    the babies.
    
    If she is pregnant, and the vet thinks that it is ok, I would have
    it done.  For us, it was the same price as a regular spay.  In addition
    it will keep another unwanted litter of kittens from ending up at
    the humane society.
    
    Good luck.
    
    		-Nancy

    Thanks, Nancy, for the encouraging words.
    
    I felt her stomach but didn't feel any kittens.  My guess is that
    she just conceived.  I have seen her outside since April and thought
    she had a home all along.  If she was pregnant during that time,
    I certainly would have noticed it.
    
    I have a strong feeling that spaying her won't be a problem.  BUT-
    the vet did say that before they spay her, she should have her shots
    at least two weeks beforehand.  If we wait another two weeks, spaying
    might be out of the question.
    
    I just called my fiance and asked him to find Karissa and bring
    her to my work tonite since it is in the same town as the vet. 
    Surprisingly, he was very accommodating and asked me to call back
    at 4:00 since he doesn't know what time he'll be thru working (he
    works at home).  Sometimes he thinks I carry these cat situations
    a bit too far and refuses to cooperate.  I think he is just as scared
    as I am about the possibility of finding homes for kittens.
    
    Any more suggestions out there?
    

    Hi Roberta-
    
    yes a cat can be spayed if she is early enough in her pregnancy.
    All 5 of my females were pregnant when they can to me and I had
    them spayed. What I understand is that if the cat is too far along
    in the pregnancy there can be a problem in blood pressure and some
    other body functions which could be fatal. However, only a vet could
    tell you for sure as to how far along she is. 
    Also, a cat can be nursing one litter and be pregnant with another.
                                                 
    Good luck.

    I am the mother of a cat who had a spaying/abortion happen late
    in the pregnancy.  [This was un-intentional on my part]
    
    When she was 8 months old Maggie picked apart the screen and made
    a break for it on Mothers' Day [I'm not making this up, really].
    It must have been very early in her first heat [I surmise this as
    we had noticed no amorous visitors].
    
    Anyway, six weeks later she went to board at the vet school [where
    our vet taught] and be spayed.  I had been out of town and my husband
    travelled to join me; he just thought she was getting chubby.
    
    Well, when I went to pick Maggie up the next week, I got such a
    LOOK from the third-year vet student.  She basically informed me
    that Maggie has come through the surgery like a trooper, but wasn't
    it a PITY about the five kittens.  Well, PTHEWW!!!  If they had
    been THAT concerned, they could have called me -- I did leave a
    number...     
    
    --------------
    As for just plain abortions for cats, I am surprised to learn that
    they aren't available as I know they are for dogs, if caught early.
    Once or twice my mother took one of her dogs in when she went in
    search of new gentlemen to conquer [by lifting the latch on the
    garden gate once...]
    
      Ann
                        

    I wonder if the vet would change his or her mind about the order
    of spaying and shots given the circumstances.  I wonder why there
    needs to be a gap anyway, were you told?
    

    Karen, I made a mistake.  In order to get the spay certificate from
    the MSPCA, they require the cat get the shots first, then the spay
    two weeks later.  I should have asked why, but figured they must
    know what they're talking about and have good reason for it.
    
    I am going to leave here at about 4:30 tonite and go look for her.
    Hopefully, things will go okay.
    

    I couldn't find Karissa last nite to take her to the vet.  I was
    very upset.  She didn't stop by for breakfast either this morning.
    
    I did see her by the rocks but she ran away when she saw me coming
    which is unusual behavior for her.  I rescheduled the appt. to tomorrow
    morning.  Drop her off at 8:00 a.m. and they will do the spaying
    if they feel she is healthy enough and not too far along in her
    pregnancy (if, in fact, she is pregnant).
    
    I am purposely not leaving food out for her, just water, so she
    will get hungry enough and come around again.  I feel so cruel doing
    this but it is the only way I know how.
    
    If I can't find her again tomorrow to get her to the vet in Westboro,
    there is a vet in Grafton very close to my home recommended to me
    by Tufts.  He works out of his home and can perform the spay there
    (must have a separate office area).  His name is Dr. Rodger.  Has
    anyone ever heard of him?  I left two messages on his answering
    machine yesterday but have not received a call back so far.  Perhaps
    he is on vacation.
    

    Dana just called me.  Karissa came to the baloncy crying so he brought
    her inside.  She finished Chauncey and Nikki's breakfast, had another
    can of food, and then started to eat the bowl of dry food I leave
    out for her in the kitchen.  She must have been very hungry!  I
    have been very careful about disinfecting Chauncey and Nikki's bowls
    after she eats out of them just in case she is harboring an illness
    or disease.  Dana said she was a little skittish with him this time;
    her temperment seems to go in spurts.  Sometimes she is very bold
    and friendly, other times she runs from her own shadow.  I sure
    do hope she comes back tonite because I will keep her inside whether
    she likes it or not.
    

    She may be as hungry as she is because of worms - round or tape
    worms or as you suggested, pregnancy.  Too bad he couldn't put
    her in your bathroom until you get home from work, so you 
    won't have to chase her down - you know how those little
    furfaces are when we want them to come - they go in the
    opposite direction as quickly as possible!  Good Luck!

    DON'T PANIC!
    
    Of course she disappeared, she has a vet appt. 
    
    They always do this. What you will probably have to do is keep her
    inside or she will take off again. Also, I know you are a worried
    parent like myself, but the spay/abortion will work out fine (I
    have been through this too many times to count).
    
    One thing that you MUST MAKE SURE is that while she is at the vet,
    have her tested for Feline Leukemia Virus (FeLV) - this is
    VERY IMPORTANT. FeLV is sort of like "kitty aids", and is
    EXTREMELY CONTAGIOUS; she could infect your other "kids". Whenever
    you take in a stray, it's wise to have this test done.
    
    If you need any further help, suggestions, amusing anecdotes, etc.
    I can be reached at RAINBW::PERRY . . . I always appreciate hearing
    from cat lovers like myself.
    
    Hope this has been helpful :^)
    
                                       - Denise (the cat lady)
                               and (drum roll please) Alf, Bully, Secrytes,
                               Screamin' Annie Baloney, Cassie, Smokey,
                               Captain Peach Fuzz, Mange, and Thea
    
    P.S. - Regarding the reply about spay/alter certificates,
           All vets require an animal be up to date on their shots
           (to protect themselves); the certificates no longer cover
           this in hopes that more vets will take part in the low-
           cost spay/alter program.
    
    
    
    GOODLUCK  :^)
    

    RE:  .11
    
    Thanks for your inputs.  I was definitely planning to have her tested
    for Felv.  Both my boys have had contact with the virus, as they
    were strays themselves before I rescued them, but luckily, neither
    came down with it and have tested negative twice.  I am also getting
    her shots and will tell the vet to check for worms.  When I adopted
    my two, the Humane Society wormed them as a precaution, even if there
    was a chance they didn't have them.
    
    If she comes back tonite, I am keeping her inside.  Hopefully, she
    will.
    
    BTW - when Nikki saw me with the carrier, he hit the pavement so
    fast my head was spinning!
    

    No, she has KITTENS!  Two I think.  My neighbor and I found them.
    She has them hidden in an area of rocks that look like Mt. Rushmore
    with tons of little nooks and crannies to hide in.  We spent all
    weekend trying to get them; however, they are PETRIFIED of people
    and kept running back inside of the rocks when they saw us sitting
    there.  We estimate their ages to be 6-8 weeks old.  We only saw
    two, and are they ADORABLE!  One is tabby and white like Karissa,
    and the other is black and white.  It is going to be very difficult
    coaxing them out, as Karissa is not trusting of us around her babies.
    
    She still comes to my house every morning and evening for eats,
    and is very friendly and affectionate with me.  But as soon as I
    go out to the rocks to try to find her kittens she will not let
    me approach her at all.  The kittens are eating the moist food we
    have been leaving there but still nurse off of mom as well.  Everyone
    keeps telling me that she will bring the kittens to my door when
    she is done nursing, as that is where their food supply comes from,
    but that could take forever.  My main concern now is Karissa getting
    pregnant again and having another litter.  The vet will not spay
    her while she still has milk, so I don't know what to do in the
    meantime or how long to wait.
    
    HELP!!!
    
    /Roberta
    

    Roberta,
    
    You're in a fix, and that's for sure!  Chances are she will go into
    heat before she stops nursing.  Therefore it would be best if you
    could get mom-kitty to stay inside until she can be fixed.  You must 
    also, however, get her kittens inside as well so she can nurse them.
    One thing is for sure, though, and that is that mom-kitty will not
    bring the kittens around to visit at your house as long as you are
    bringing food to them at the rocks.  It's good that they have had
    _some_ food at the rocks, though.  That way they'll get a taste
    for it in their home surroundings.  I would suggest that you continue
    to feed mom-kitty at your door, but wait for her to bring them by
    _your_ place for food.   Then you perhaps can keep them all inside
    (at least until mom-kitty can be fixed).  Another possibility is
    to use a "have a heart" trap to try to get the bunch of them.  Best
    of luck!
    
    Marion

    Marion,
    
    It could take ages before Karissa brings the babies to us.  And
    by then, she could already be pregnant.  But if we keep her inside,
    how do we get the babies since she won't be out there to bring them
    to us??  If you could see these rocks, you will understand how
    difficult it is to get the kittens.  This is an area of rocks that
    were blasted in order to build our condos;  I mean, there are PILES
    of them - it's like climbing Mt. Rushmore, and they are all spread
    out in a very wide area.  I don't feel comfortable using the HAV-A-HART
    just yet.  Both the vet and the humane society advise against it,
    as kittens rarely go into the trap and if we catch Karissa instead,
    she will become very distrusting of us and we'll never get the babies.
    
    My thought was to give the situation another week and if nothing
    progesses, to take Karissa to the vet, have her spayed, and bring
    food to the kittens in her absence.  Then, when Karissa returns
    from the vet, let her go back to the rocks and don't bring any food
    at all.  Hopefully, the babies will follow her to my place.
    
    Once a cat is spayed, will she reject her babies?  Is it a bad idea
    to take her away from them so soon??
    

suggestion:

keep mom in and take her to the vets ASAP.  Meanwhile, use a trap, baited
with moist food to catch the kittens and get them to the vet to be
examined to determine their true age....ferel kittens are generally
smaller than our pets and these guys may very well be ready for weaning
right now.  In any case, if they are eating solid food, they will not
starve without mom as long as you are feeding them....another litter
from the female is really intolerable so she must be fixed.  Besides,
if you don't get the kittens soon (via the "have-a-heart" trap) they
will never really be tame....hard to find homes for wild kittens...the
odds that the kittens will voluntarily come into your home are small - mom had
to catch and kill sometimes and the kittens have surely learned how
to do the same.

				D

    Roberta, do you think you could move the food closer and closer
    to your door to intice the whole family closer - like moving it
    10 or 15 or 20 feet closer with each feeding?

    Elaine - That is exactly what my friend and I are starting to do!!
    For the past two nites we have gone to the rocks and heard absolutely
    nothing.  Karissa probably moved her babies, maybe to a different
    place within the rocks.  In any case, she is showing up at my door
    more and more often.  She was there 3 times yesterday, and the last
    time it was not to eat but just to play!!  She loves catnip and
    spent a great deal of time just rolling around on the floor with
    the catnip toy.  She really trusts me and I keep telling her that
    after all I have done to help her, the least she could do is introduce
    me to her beautiful children.  I really hate to wisk her off to
    the vet for a spay right away.  Ultimately, I would like to give
    the situation another two weeks.  If nothing progesses, then I will
    take her in for a spay and a complete check-up, and borrow a trap
    from the Humane Society to get the kittens and hopefully, Daddy
    kitty.  I realize from the replies I have read so far that some
    of you feel waiting it out is the wrong thing to do.  If Karissa
    weren't so trusting of people, I would have to agree, but something
    tells me that this time, time is on my side.
    
    Any other comments???
    
    /Roberta
    

    Gee, Roberta, (You old softie !!) I have no experience with
    this type of thing.  From your other note, you seem to be
    getting sound advice - I wish I could offer more, but I've
    never dealt with it.  Good Luck,
     
    E.T.

    Hey Elaine -
    
    Karissa sure is a sweetie...why don't you make it an even 15 in
    your household :-)!!!
    
    All kidding aside, Karissa has a spay appt. next Thursday along
    with anything else that needs "doing."  Her expenses will amount
    to around $130, the vet tells me, but I will NOT have her put down
    unless they tell me she has Felv.  They have agreed to do the surgery
    for fear she could already be pregnant again and don't want it to
    pend for too long, especially since I told them I have had no luck
    in catching the kittens yet.
    
    This is a lot more money than I wanted to spend, but I just cannot
    have them do the spay/shots only and then put her outside again,
    fleas, worms, and all.  I don't actually know if she has parasites
    but I want her checked for everything so she comes home looking
    and feeling good.  I even want her bathed if they can do it.
    
    You sure are right, Elaine.  I am an old softie!
    
    

    Roberta, you are not the only one!  I was leaving work last Wed.
    pm and in the MK-1 lobby was a family with a pet taxi full of
    kittens.  I guess the owner had prearranged to meet a person
    in the lobby to let them pick out which kitten from 4 -
    they picked two - so, of course, I had to stick my nose into
    the crate to see what was left, and of course there was a beautiful
    spotted calico looking at me - she ran to the door of the crate
    and started hopping around, and of course, she now lives in 
    Candia N.H.  
    
    BTW, her name is Miss Victoria Dolly ZhivagoCat - Miss Vickii for
    short!  A little doll baby at eight weeks and gets cuter by the
    minute!  It's a real chuckle to watch her hop up and down the
    metal spiral staircase and chase all the tails of the bigger
    kids!  Oh lordy, didn't I say that the Inn was full???????
    
    E.T. + 15

    Elaine,
    
    Do you have to have a special permit with the Board of Health,or
    anyone else to have 15 cats?
    
    	-Nancy

    Nancy, Shh!  That's all I'd need is for the Town of Candia to 
    find out!! No, all I need is to have a ton of litter (speedy dry from the
    Candia Auto Parts Store) and about 10 cases of Old Mother Hubbard
    on hand along with 2 or 3 25 lb bags of Blue Seal Kat Kare - and
    lots of love!!  Of course the return is 15-fold to me, so how can
    I complain??  
    
    Thae 14 big kids ALL think they are moms now.  But, Pashenka has
    actually won - he thinks he owns Miss Vikki - wraps his arms around
    her - bathes her within an inch of her little life - she howls,
    but doesn't move or run away - then they pile up together and take
    a nap!  When he washes her face, she closes her little green eyes
    and smiles - she's a real honey doll.  Pashenka sings - Miss Vikki
    smiles - all's well at the ZhivagoCat Kitty Kamp.
    
    E.T. Crazy_Cat_Lady !!
    

    My lord...15 cats???  How do you control the odor in your house???

    Believe me, it's something I worry about all the time.  Everyone
    that comes in, I ask if they can smell anything.  Most folks can't
    believe that there are that many there.  I use a Sesame Street
    square kid's sand box and 40 lbs. of litter - I scoop lumps
    twice a day making sure that I turn everything over from the bottom
    up so the wet stuff dries out.  The humidity in summer makes
    dealing with the odor a little more difficult - I just have to
    spend a little more time at it.  Keep in mind, that all my kids
    are spayed and neutered with the exception of the new baby girl.
    I think whole males and females make the odor problem a little
    harder to work with.  Although, cat s%^t is cat s@#t no matter what!!
    Their sand box is down in the lower level and the odor does not
    come up (thank heavens).  There are two windows in the lower
    level so that helps circulate air.  I think that turning the
    sand and removing lumps really is the key - 5 or 6 minutes
    in the morning and evening - if I am down there before bed time,
    I'll check it - sometimes I scoop if necessary - I use brown
    lunch bags and a covered trash can.  As I have mentioned before,
    I went to Cat S&*T College and majored in Cat S^&*T !!
    
    E.T. (It's safe to come in without a closepin!!!)