Conference misery::feline_v1

    
    Personal experience tells me this won't work.  I used to keep rabbits
    and the cats always tried to attack them.  The only one of my cat's
    that hasn't tried to harm a rabbit was Dillan who thought he was
    being helpful by carrying one (a baby bunny) home by the scruff
    of it's neck thinking it was one of my newly born kittens that had
    escaped.
    
    Having said that they were all fully grown cats so your kitten may
    be ok with the bunny.  After all cats and dogs can get along.  Try
    it for small periods of time and see how it goes.  In a fight the
    kitten would probably come off worse than the rabbit (size wise)
    and also the kitten may not have realised it's full wild instincts
    yet.
    
    Let us know how you get on
    
    Sharon T (UK)
    

BOTH animals need exposure to each other while supervised....and both must
be reprimanded if any hostility is expressed.  Get out the squirt bottle,
pick up the kitten and introduce it, while holding it, to the rabbit and
allow both to sniff each other over real good.  After that, allow them
to hang out in the same area - WHILE WATCHING EVERY MINUTE...leaving
the room for a split second is not allowed.  The object is to PREVENT
any hostilities from ever occurring, not punishing after the fact.  If
you impress upon both animals that the act simply cannot ever happen, they
will learn to co-exist and you have no problems.  If they appear as if
they are going to do something, squirt the offender with cold water and
say "NO" in a loud voice....this will abort the attack before it happens.
If things get too tense, remove one from the room until everyone settles
down.

The animals have to be exposed to each other to get rid of the "newness"
and become comfortable with each other.  Once that is done, they will
most likely ignore one another most of the time.

I know the above technique works for dobermans, lab/malamute cross dogs,
and kittens - after that, a rabbit doesn't seem like too much 
of a problem. 8^}

    I saw on some PBS animal program that infant cats have to "imprint"
    the idea of other animals as prey -- that is, a kitten and puppy
    raised together will think they are friends, but bringing in a feral
    dog to a house with a cat or kitten is bad news for the feline.
     Cats raised with rats think rats are friends and so forth....
    

    I have had two rabbits in multi-pet households and both times
    everyone got along famously - after the initial 'what do you mean
    I've got a sibling?' stage.  Ulysses was my childhood rabbit. He
    was an indoor/outdoor rabbit and used to play with the neighbors'
    dog.  The two of them were about the same size and it was hilarious
    to watch them chase each other around the yard until they were
    exhausted and then lie down together to rest.
    
    Shawn was an indoor (mostly) rabbit who grew up in a 75 gallon fish
    tank.  When he was about two years old we acquired kitten littermates
    Boff and Googie.  At first he had to be watched closely when he
    was loose with them as he tended to kick, but as the kittens put
    on some size they discovered that they could play together.  Shawn
    became quite protective of his favorite toys and would frequently
    groom them and clean their ears.  He drew the line at sharing his
    litter box with them, however.
    

    Thanks for all of your responses!  My daughter and I have done some
    minor introductions to date, but nothing that will really test each
    animals response.  The last few times we've taken Jasper and put
    him near Sasha's face, Sasha's gotten up and left the area.  I think
    we need to get over our own nervousness also.  My daughter is very
    afraid that precious little Jasper will get hurt.  I think little
    bits of exposure at a time will help us all to calm down.  Jasper
    is well aware of the spray bottle, and responds as predicted with
    it.  Will let you all know when we all reside harmoniously.
    

    
    
    Given time I should think they'll get along fine.
    
    We had a kitten, Dinah, and then we acquired a fully grown house
    trained rabbit: it was sat in the middle of a main road when one
    of our household was on the way back from the pub.
    
    The only minor problem, since the rabbit was NEVER caged was Dinah's
    disgust to start wth when it used her litter tray.
    
    They had hours of fun chasing each other though and Dinah developed
    quite a liking for rabbit grain, a matter of "If HE's got some then
    I'm having some too."
    
    There is another note somewhere on rabbits and cats not sure of
    the number but I think it goes by a title something like "a non-cat
    note"
    
    Have fun.
    
    Jo 
    Reading, UK.
    

    We just added a rabbit to our 3-cat household.  The cats' ages are
    3 years, 1 year, and 4 months.  The 2 older cats sniff the rabbit
    and get sniffed in return while the kitten has decided the rabbit
    is a playmate.  The rabbit is curious and is starting to venture
    around a bit more, too.  In fact, he started doing sprints through
    the house yesterday just like the cats do!  
    
    I would love to train the rabbit to use the kitty litter--how do
    I go about doing that?  We started to put litter in the tray under
    his cage so he could get used to the smell but what's the next step?
    
    Thanks for any suggestions,
    
    Jill

    In reply to .7, litter training a rabbit is easy.  First note which
    corner of its pen it's chosen for its latrine. (Rabbits are actually
    rather fastidious creatures and will only *use* one area of their
    pens - usually as far away from their food as they can get.)  Next
    get a small litter box and place it, with litter in it, in the chosen
    corner of the pen, not underneath the pen.  Your rabbit will start
    to use the box because of its location, but will soon begin to 
    recognize a litterbox as the proper place for wastes.  Our rabbit,
    Shawn, would search out the cats' litterbox when he was loose in
    the house.  Bear in mind that a rabbit can control urination, but
    has no control over defecation.  Rabbits are a great example of
    "in one end and out the other".  In fact, Shawn refused to eat anything
    if he was sitting in our laps.
    
    I found that litterbox training was relatively painless, but with
    my first rabbit, Ulysses, I made a grievous error.  When I housebroke
    Ulysses there were no cats in our household and thus no litterboxes.
    The decision was made to paper train him.  While we were doing this,
    we kept him shut in the kitchen on the theory that linoleum was
    easier to clean than rugs.  When he was deemed *trained* and was
    let loose in the rest of the house, we discovered that he regarded
    ANY paper on the floor as fair game.  I learned to speed-read the
    Sunday funnies.
 

    RE: .8
    
    Thanks for the hints--I'll start them in earnest when I return from
    my suddenly-busy travel life.  That way I can watch the rabbit and
    make sure I pick the best spot.  So far, he has been very
    well-mannered.  In fact, he's a great deal more personable than
    I had ever imagined.  Sasha, the kitten, still can't figure out
    why he won't run and tumble with her, though.  She certainly tries
    her best!
    
    The other two cats are curious but mostly just stare in disbelief
    at the rabbit as if to say, "You're going to do WHAT???"
    
    They are all a real treat.
    
    Thanks again,
    
    Jill
    

    Just on an informational note, WORDS::SMALL_ANIMALS is a conference
    on small furry pets like bunnies, hamsters, etc. 
    
    Deb

    Thanks again for all responses.  I bit the bullet and let Sasha
    and Jasper loose together.  I was a nervous wreck though because
    they chose to get acquainted under my bed!!  Needless to say, I
    had a great deal of difficulty supervising the get-together.  Sasha,
    the rabbit used to be a lazy bum when out of her cage, only getting
    up to go to the bathroom.  Now that she and Jasper, the kitten,
    are loose together, she's up frequently to play.  Jasper likes to
    terrorize Sasha by jumping on her back from the couch, going into
    her cage and drinking her water, using her litter box.  I'm sure
    that sometimes Sasha wishes that orange furry thing would get lost.
    But, Sasha frequently searches out Jasper's attention (even if we
    think he's being a brat).  So, they seem to be happy with each other.
    My daughter and I are happy, and we're not playing revolving rooms
    anymore.
    
    re.7 -- Sasha was littered trained in one day.  But I think she
    trained me!  I noticed that when she was out of her cage she chose one 
    corner of the kitchen to leave little pellets behind.  So, I put the litter
    box in that area and she took to it right away.  The ritual is that
    when she gets out of her cage she goes immediately to the litter
    box, does her business, and then goes to her favorite sleeping spot.
    I find a few poops throughout the house, but I know that these are
    not left on purpose (as a previous note stated, rabbits have little
    or no control over this function).  Give it a try.  Some rabbits
    are easier to train than others, but it's a definite possibility.
    
    So folks, the small house is still small, but the residents are
    living in harmony!!!
    

    re: .11
    
    Thanks for the good word about litter.  So far, I've just been picking
    the rabbit up and setting him back in the cage about once per hour.
     It's worked out well so far but a litter box would be wonderful!
     I'm going to try it as soon as I get back from vacation in mid-July.
    
    Jill
    

re.12  Good luck with the litter box.  I don't think your little guy
    will get the message by putting him back in his cage every once
    in a while.  When we first got the litter box for Sasha, we would
    pick her up and put her in the litter box every once in a while
    for the first day.  She would hop right out and go on the floor.
    Cute!  Reminded me of the days when I was potting training my 
    daughter!!  Let your little guy run around and notice where he
    thinks is the best spot.  If you want his litter box to be always
    in the kitchen, then confine him to the kitchen and let him choose
    the spot.  Generally speaking, they choose a space that is away
    from traffic and private.  In fact, when Sasha started using the
    box she was confused.  She thought that she wasn't supposed to use
    her cage anymore.  So, she would go to great lengths to hold every-
    thing till we let her out of her cage.  She then couldn't get to
    the box fast enough.  This went on for about a week.  Then when
    we didn't let her out very much, she gave in and started using her
    cage also.  However, she will only use her cage when she's confined
    to it.  Rabbits are much smarter than most people give them credit
    for.  Expect a few "accidents" in the beginning.  But that should
    not be a long term problem.  Jasper, our kitten, has his own box
    in my daughter's room, but uses Sasha's box when his out around
    the house.  It's funny to watch him, because he can't understand
    why Sasha doesn't cover up her messes.  So he covers them for her.
    Sasha hasn't even tried to use Jasper's litter box.  She knows which
    one is hers and she's faithful to it.  Aren't these fury friends
    adorable??  Let us know how you make out.
    

    re.13
    
    Thanks for all the hints.  I am going to try them as soon as I return
    in mid-July.  The rabbit is *much* smarter and has much more of
    a personality than I ever expected.  Our kitten (Sasha) tries to
    get the rabbit to play with her and cannot understand why he doesn't
    *do* something when she jumps on his back.  The rabbit is inquisitive
    and a joy to watch.  Especially when he stretches out on the hearth
    rug to take a nap.  I've heard of hearth cats, but this is the first
    time I ever heard of a hearth bunny.
    
    I can't wait to get him trained to use litter and I'll keep you
    posted.
    

    
    re .10
    
    I was interested in the small animals file but everytime I try to
    open it I get "network object is unknown at remote node" does anyone
    else get this...or know what it is??
    
    Sharon

    I tried it and got the same thing??? In fact I've tried it a few
    times and get the same thing? I also checked the latest easynote
    listing and there is no info available??
    
    Marilyn

    I'll write to Kristy and find our what is going on.  I've tried
    it too and got the same thing.  Kristy is a good friend of mine,
    and the moderator of this file.
    
 
    I'll let you know what I find out.
    
    Holly
    

    I'm not sure but if I remember correctly Small_animals was on WORDS.
    WORDS houses a number of very popular conferences and often gets
    bogged down by all the links made to it. To prevent this a bit,
    WORDS is set up to allow a number of people access to the conferences,
    but gives a 'network object undefined at remote node' for any links
    over the maximum. The best you can do is to try again later, preferably
    off-hours. When you try around lunch-time many people try to reach
    WORDS, so that is not a good idea. 
    
    Ofcourse this is only if Small_animals is really on WORDS :-)
    
    Regards,
    
    Ad

    RE: -1
    
    Gee, AD.  That's exactly what Kristy said.  Just keep trying and
    you will eventually get in.  In WORDS:: has too many people accessing
    the conferences, you will get that message.
    
    Holly
    

    re. 17, 18, 19, etc.
    I know what ya mean!!  I wish the system gave a different prompt.
     One that would let you know that lines were not available rather
    than unknown.  It took me many times of scratching my head, when
    unable to get into SMALL_ANIMALS, before I realized that the prompt
    was telling me that all lines were busy.  I think it's a misleading
    prompt--one that causes people not to try and access again, because
    they think there's something wrong with the file.  Maybe Kristy
    can work on getting a different prompt.

    Your right, I can get in now!!!!
    
    Sharon
    

    Re. 20
    
    The network object unknown message is indeed confusing, but it is
    a consequence of this method to limit the number of links to WORDS.
    
    With the amount of traffic that would result if this limitation
    was not present this is really the best option to choose. 
    
    I'm sure Kristy would like the message more informational, but this
    is a limitation of Notes itself, so she can't help it.
    
    There was a discussion on this method of limiting in
    CVG::VAXNOTES_BUGS, for those that are interested in the technical
    details.
    
    Regards,
    
    Ad